CdnSikhGirl

I always had short hair all my life... since coming to SIkhi about 3 years ago I have not cut my hair... I love my hair now and would never part with it aside from the ones that come out when I comb my hair - and there are usually enough for a whole new head of hair each time haha. I have VERY thick and unruly hair. Also why I tie a dastaar even though it's 'optional' for women. My hairs are so unruly its just way easier, and I happen to think I look ok with a turban There is something spiritual about it too... I believe it affects dasam dwar - both hairs and the turban.

btw, many girls prefer bearded men. You know it IS possible to have a long beard and not have it unhygienic... upkeep, brushing, cleaning, applying oils etc are allowed. And I am not against tucking it up either though I don't like when guys put so much fixxo that they can't smile lol.

Bhagat Singh Ji... I know the excitement can sometimes cause you to be your own worst enemy when trying to exit. Instead of focusing on sleep paralysis, why not try a different approach to induce an experience? One that seems to work for a lot of people (I used to be a moderator on a well known forum that centred around OBEs called Astral Society) Anyway, the method involves you becoming aware of the exact moment you fall asleep, and then plant a suggestion in your mind just as you drift off. It is known that we often dream about the last thing we think about prior to falling asleep and so it requires you to kind of learn to recognize that moment you are slipping into sleep. Just try each night to become aware of that exact moment. And tell yourself in your mind right at that time "I WILL have an OBE, and I WILL have no fear."

I also got into playing with brainwave technology, and using hemi sync frequencies that border on Theta state but retaining awareness. About 7 Hz. This is also the natural frequency of the Earth called the Schumann resonance coincidentally.... I embedded these into a sound track I made, which if you have ever experienced the vibrations and the strange sounds when you have an OBE (the rushing static like sounds) I also embedded those as well behind the music. I composed the music myself and did the mix-down so it's not professional... but anyway feel free to grab it and throw it on an mp3 player. It requires headphones in order to benefit from the hemi sync effect.

http://www.spirit-quest.ca/mp3/Emerging.mp3

Best wishes in your travels

Those are some great experiences you guys! Thanks for sharing.

I am still working up to it. What's holding me back from having sleep paralysis is me waking up my body when I notice myself (my body) entering into a sleep paralysis. I think "Cool! I am having a sleep paralysis, so I am gona have an OBE! Ok I don't want to screw this up so I'll start meditating." and right when I think that, the vibrations, the experiences start to fade away and my body wakes up before I have a chance to go into the paralysis more fully.

And you hit the nail on the head... tradition is not the same as saying that women can not do it... it just means 'this is how it's been so why change it' Usually the men are the ones who never see an issue... they would think differently if they were the ones being restricted in some way.

I actually plan on taking Amrit from AKJ however... and AKJ does in fact, practice full equality. Hence why women also are required to tie keskis.

I agree its not a huge issue in the grand scheme... however to say that Sikhi practises full equality of gender, when there are restrictions placed on women that men never have to worry about. It does make women feel somehow 'less than' when they can not participate fully. A man would never understand the feeling unless they were told they were 'not allowed' to do something simply for being born a male. To understand that it is tradition and in no way was something that was intended by Waheguru Ji helps... i.e.: it's men who are dictating that tradition. But still for someone like me who dedicated a huge part of my life to military etc. it still stings to be told that I don't have the right parts to ever participate as Panj Pyare... (unless of course I do so thru AKJ) and I can't help feel that it means I am somehow less qualified spiritually etc. It feels like it's somehow stating that women "require" men just to advance spiritually because we are somehow lacking on our own... but since men can receive amrit from men, they do not need us. Certainly you can at least imagine how it makes us feel well.... like it's saying we are not good enough?

In general however, and in actual teaching Sikhi is by far more egalitarian than Catholicism which I grew up in! My local Gurdwara had an all female management committee twice now And it's usually a woman who does Ardas here, and hukam is about half and half... half the time a man and half the time a woman. And kirtan is also done by mostly women here... so I fully acknowledge that...

Pretty much this.

Satkirin

We know there is a tradition of male Panj Pyarey doing amrit sanchaar. For whatever reason that is the tradition. Women and men in India "see beyond the physical shell" and they see 5 souls and they see a tradition. They respect that, take amrit and move on.

Then there are those who "can't see beyond the physical shells" and can't get over the fact that it's an established tradition. If they really "see beyond the physical shell" then they shouldn't be concerned with who is giving them amrit. They should respect the tradition and move on to more important matters such as their spiritual growth.

Yup... Just one before I got a finger pointed at me.

Also took these this past November...

WJKK WJKF

I just want to say hello. I was referred here by someone else, who suggested this was a very good place for discussion of spiritual / philosophical aspects of Gurbani etc.

Myself, I am a gori Canadian girl, who found Sikhi in my 20's after a lot of comparative religion and deep inner journey, which stemmed from some deeply spiritual experiences I had when I was younger. I eventually ended up on the path to Sikhi because when I read SGGSJ for the first time (in English) things just 'clicked' and I literally got shivers reading it.

That was over 5 years ago. I have been going to the gurdwara here locally for over 3 years now (99.9% Punjabi Sangat - I never came to Sikhi from 3HO... just want to make that clear since lots of people automatically think white = 3HO and I am not) Anyway I am heading to India for the second time - just 3 weeks from now and I am taking Amrit while I am there

Hope to get to know you all, recognize some names already...

WJKK WJKF

I have actually had numerous OBEs when I was younger, which mostly all happened on their own. They actually scared me at first and then I realized I was ok, so I started experimenting - basically I just let go and let it happen. I actually wrote an ebook on the subject years ago and though it was before I found Sikhi, and hence you won't find any reference to Sikhi in the book, but I did do a lot of research, both scientifically and spiritually into the subject so there are references to several different spiritual paths in the book.

Feel free to take a look if you want...

http://www.spirit-quest.ca/Spirit-Quest.pdf

Those experiences ultimately led me on a spiritual journey to end up eventually in Sikhi. And I am about to take Amrit in Sept when I go back to India.

I took these when I was there in November just past... (It was only 2 days past Diwali)

My personal opinion on this, is that the original five their gender does not matter. Amrit is beyond the phsyical realm.

There were only certain castes in the original five as well, and to use the argument that panj pyare MUST be emmulating the original five exactly, then using that argument, a jatt should also never act as panj pyare.

Then wehre do we stop? Were all five vegetarian? Were all five etc etc etc... see where this goes?

The whole idea of amrit was to bring everyone together on the SAME level as equals. The argument that there were no women in the original five is as valid as saying there were no jatts in the original five.

We have to realize that our souls are all equal. One must recognize the divine light within EVERYONE - only when one sees and recognizes this SAME divine light within everyone, will they understand. By separating people into groups of superiority based on gender, on caste etc. goes completely against what our Gurus taught.

So yes women can act as Panj Pyare... having a penis does not make someone somehow more spiritual or more qualified to bestow amrit on someone else. If a Sikh receives Amrit, and abides by the SRM then they should be able to bestow that same amrit on others. To say that one person can and another can not, is equal to saying that one person is somehow closer to God than the other... and is putting the other person in a lower light. It's the SAME amrit... our souls are the SAME... in fact we are ALL soul BRIDES. The original five... five SIKHS, five SOULS gave their heads... their gender is only transitory and their penises matter only in matters of reproduction on the physical plane.

The gender of the original five means no more than their caste did. Or else as I said no jatt would ever be able act as panj pyare either. All forms of discrimination were removed - caste, colour, etc. and yes even gender.

(Why does gender always seem to stand out as somehow being different than any other difference anyway?)

I realize many don't see it that way and I think it's because they can't see beyond the physical shells. We are told many times in SGGSJ that these bodies, they are nothing... they are only characters being played and when all the costumes are removed and the play is over - we see that it was the SAME actor who played ALL of them [God] - paraphrased from page 736 SGGSJ. If there really is only ONE, and that ONE is ALL... then how can we say any part of his creation is any less valuable or deserving than any other?

Also, just wanted to add... warriors having to be male is bunk... Mai Bhago is who I look up to, and my career is actually in the military (18 years now). I am trained in combat... small arms... etc. Women are stronger than men think. It's only the mindset of men who want to limit us. The strongest of opponents are not those who are brute muscles but those who use their mind and cunning to beat an opponent. Case in point, martial arts teaches how to use an opponents weight and strength against them. I have seen small girls beat larger guys because the larger guys are not as nimble etc. All men are not born with the warrior mentality and not all women are born with nurturing mentality. And both genders can learn both easily... it's only limitations imposed by society that lock gender into specific 'roles'. Case in point, I have never had the nurturing mentality at all... from childhood to now, nearly 40, I have always looked to military career, to lines of work that require stress, even my volunteer work as as a first responder. I have never been interested in traditional womens roles like cooking, cleaning, raising kids, knitting etc. Am I a male in a female body? (Perhaps I should go through gender transition surgery... maybe then I could act as Panj huh??)

Anyway, amrit has nothing to do with physical strength... it's entirely a spiritual initiation. And our souls are the SAME. In fact there is only ONE... we need to realize this fact that ALL is ONE. This separateness is illusion, and the more we think like this and create more separateness, then the further we get from becoming ONE.

Thinking in terms of gender superiority is EGO. btw AKJ allows women to do Panj Pyare seva...

And there are other groups who want to further limit women from even sitting behind SGGSJ. They will not allow women to participate in akhand paath, or do kirtan either. (DDT) And they quote the same arguments. The mentality spreads further... into other restrictions, women are not 'allowed' to do at Sri Darbar Sahib etc. An Amritdhari Bibi friend of mine, once tried to do some seva at Darbar Sahib and was stopped by a Singh who approached her husband, not her... and told him 'Control your Singhni' - as if she was not even a human worthy of actual interaction. This is what happens when one gender dominates the other... and this thinking is EGO.

Also regarding the original five I quoted this from another site but it makes sense... "From that conversation we worked out a plausible way out of this direct challenge by pointing out the folklore and history that as many as 80,000 people may have gathered at Anandpur in 1699 when Guru Gobind Singh, the Tenth master, with a naked sword in hand, issued a call for a head. Can you imagine the consternation; surely there were no PA systems and microphones at hand over 300 years ago. If this crowd had to be fed who do you think were cooking and feeding the assembly if not the women? And if there were small children who were they clambering on if not their mothers? In the Indian culture at that time, and even today, when people sit on the floor in large assemblies men and women are somewhat segregated. It is likely that the women perhaps never even heard the call."