chzS1ngh

Thank you Sukrit and Harsharan,

You are right, Love is the key. You need to be in complete Bairaag. I understand that but at the same time I am worried since this is your only chance to be one with Him. And you can only go close to Him if you can fight panj doots and it seems impossible to me.

I listened to Bhai Sewa Singh Tarmala and he says that we need to be on "Santpad" to start Bhakti and to reach santpad we need to do naam kamai. Have anyone of you reached Santpad or beyond? Could you share your experience and how did you live your life, how much simran you did to reach that? Now, I understand that everyone is different, but I just want to hear from someone.

Please share.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

the worry, the questions are all created by your mind...to create doubt within you. your mind can be your best friend or your worst enemy.

for weeks on end my simran us full of bliss...and then hits periods of what feels like nothing...and then the mind starts doubting again...

key is to get into selfless simran...to do and not want anything in return...."do with me as you please waheguru" because then you open yourself up to his grace...yes there is that wanting and needing that burns within...but you switch it to...."i am nothing (ego) all is You...i am the dust off your feet, dust of the feet of the whole of creation...do with me as you please"

you are sacrificing time during the day and night...sacrificing sleep etc...nothing goes to waste with His simran...

I want to share my one more experience that I had this very morning.As I shared earlier,I've been experiencing such things.So,I usually scare to meditate.I've no problem when my eyes are open,but once I close my eyes and try to meditate, I get scared and then can't progress further.

This morning,I got up at 2:45 am.Then ,I started nitnem at 3:20 am.I did it by 4:30.There is a doubt in my mind that after 4 am I've no reason to scare of.I mean I said to myself that whatever had happened was always around 2 am,so nothing can happen now.So I was little freed of that fear.I started listening Simran audio.I was feeling very tired and sleepy too.so,I laid straight on my back.But still I was trying to focus on simran.within few seconds,I lost all senses from by body.I somehow knew that I'm sleeping,but I couldn't control anything.I couldn't move my body.It was without any sense for almost 5 min.I tried so hard,but couldn't.Then I felt veryyyy strong force pulling my body upwards.I was resisting it sooo hard.Again I was on bed,then again force pulled up.I was in that up down movement for 2-3 times.My mind knew that I'm lying and it's my body that is trying to come out of it.Then I was like I did it.I saw my room's roof.There was smokey bubbles kinda airy ones all around the room.Then I tried to get out of bed,but still couldn't move my body.Then I realised its still something wrong.I'm still trapped.My mind was working,but my body was not.Then I was like I'm trapped.I wanted to cry and call my mom,but couldn't.This all happened for about 10 min.Then I started calling Guru Ramdass Ji in my mind.I was reciting waheguru and was calling Guru sahib.Then again I tried to move my body but couldnt.In meanwhile,I felt like its over now and I'm walking around my room and my eyes are open.But still I wasn't.It was a very weird and frustating feeling.Then,I called guru sahib again and made a prayer in mind,Guru sahib I'm in vain.Why don't u help me.I'm calling you again and again.But still I was struggling.Then ,I felt kinda touchy sensation around my right arm.I was resisting it and was calling guru sahib again and again in a very anger mood.I felt that My body is no longer mine.It was lying and was veryyy heavy.Then I opened eyes I was still in doubt whether it's over or not.Then I realised yes it is.But I was still in a shock.After 5 min,I could get normal.I saw time,It was 5:40 am.It was a very long experience that happened to me this very morning.I'm writing cause I want to share as it's just recently happened and evrything is well in my mind.Now,I 'm in great eager to know the meaning of all this.I really want to know what it is.Why this all is happening to me?Is it a good sign or bad sign? What is the meaning of it? Why I'm scaring? Why I scare to close my eyes and to meditate?

I really want help!

Gut fateh!

I often do simran on this verse...it helped me a lot.

qwqI vwau n lgeI pwrbRhm srxweI ] thaathee vaao n lagee paarabreham saranaaee || The hot wind does not even touch one who is under the Protection of the Supreme Lord God. cauigrd hmwrY rwm kwr duKu lgY n BweI ]1] chougiradh hamaarai raam kaar dhukh lagai n bhaaee ||1|| On all four sides I am surrounded by the Lord's Circle of Protection; pain does not afflict me, O Siblings of Destiny. ||1|| siqguru pUrw ByitAw ijin bxq bxweI ] sathigur pooraa bhaettiaa jin banath banaaee || I have met the Perfect True Guru, who has done this deed. rwm nwmu AauKDu dIAw eykw ilv lweI ]1] rhwau ] raam naam aoukhadhh dheeaa eaekaa liv laaee ||1|| rehaao || He has given me the medicine of the Lord's Name, and I enshrine love for the One Lord. ||1||Pause|| rwiK lIey iqin rKnhwir sB ibAwiD imtweI ] raakh leeeae thin rakhanehaar sabh biaadhh mittaaee || The Savior Lord has saved me, and eradicated all my sickness. khu nwnk ikrpw BeI pRB Bey shweI ]2]15]79] kahu naanak kirapaa bhee prabh bheae sehaaee ||2||15||79|| Says Nanak, God has showered me with His Mercy; He has become my help and support. ||2||15||79||

sukrit, i remember when i first tried to ride a bike without any stabilizers...for a split second i had good balance then the strange sensation of losing balance and going out of control..it's a strange sensation...a new sensation. but we get used to it..and eventually it is second nature and you'll never think about it again...your trust in the process will increase day by day

VJKK VJKF

I know that in the beginning stages the first distraction that comes up to stop your focus is your thoughts. Later on people have told me ridhian/sidhian come up to distract you off the path and I've also heard your vices can attack you as well. Is there anything else that may come up as a distraction? And does anyone have any info on whether or not it's true that the 5 vices may possibly try and lead you the wrong way?

I have been doing Simran regularly for over 3 years now...thoughts are always there to distract you...they become less...but sometimes all it takes is a turbulent moment in life and thoughts litter your mind during Simran..

but this is ok...it means we have not yet learned to curb negative emotions in life situatons so it helps us determine what we need to work on in a wakeful state.

on my short journey s far, there are other distractions, sights and sounds that can distract you...best thing i leant is to just be a 'witness' to the experience...take it in, learn from it, then move on...

very easy to get entangled and attached to experiences and then our wakeful day is spent searching the internet for answers to what it was...

ridhs and sidhs can start to develop but again..what are we after...Waheguru or desires for supernatural powers? if its supernatural powers, our progress will be halted...if its waheguru, then we keep moving forward...and supernatural powers may still arive but we are now working under wahegurus will...rather than using those supernatural powers for our selfish needs.

excellent read..

although tips like Many saints and yogis say that if your mind remains concentrated on one object for at least 12 breaths ...

often leads to focusing on waheguru, and also counting how many breaths you've taken

personally i don't think there is any harm in wayward thoughts...in fact they give me an insight into what is bothering me, which of the 5 thieves are manifest more within me and what i need to work on in my daily actions.

concentration for me is always just focussing on 'Waheguru' , yes the wayward thoughts will come and go, but providing we retrun back to waheguru, then during the meditation complete single pointed concentration does occur...in fact i feel it is waheguru who pulls us into that place..

God Bless Ji

i think the seeing of light occurs when the inner eye/third eye starts to activate.

usually during Simran the mind is filled with light of various colors, Purple is often seen when attention is placed towards the third eye, and i think once you start making more progress towards Waheguru, this light start to get whiter and whiter

these are excellent videos we can also use to help us on our way...i've really enjoyed listening to these videos and others that i've seen in the past.

but there is one thing which i feel is very important...there are many 'awakened souls' around the world that have a heightened perception of truth reality...

but my deepest thoughts tells me that only Shabad guru can take us to the highest experience of truth reality...on the shabad has the power to take us to the awareness of Waheguru. but there are many awakened souls that are helping people climb the ladder to various heights...so to speak..

God Bless Ji

Can one astral project while deep in simran?

i think when you are deep in Simran, remain in his hands...surrender to His greatness, and from my limited experience i feel there are no boundaries, no limits to the possibilities...

where there is no Ego....only God remains...

My fear of heights is in thoughts. It does have a root in my body, because my body will respond to the thoughts. E.g. shudder or feel uncomfortable.

Yeah that's probably how it is,like roller coasters.

PS has anyone tried meditating on a roller coaster, to see what that feels like. Get really sensitive to the body and then ride a big one...

urm, i think i'll just stick with the 'sitting on the couch' meditation lol

sometimes that is also like a rollercoaster

That must've been scary!!!

One of my fears with OBE is my fear of heights. It makes me shudder just thinking about it...

Any fear will prevent you from from having a full OBE...the fear will bring you back.

but like any fear..it dissolves once you've tried something a few times...you get used to it...

i get scared before getting on a roller coaster...the second time it's less scary...and then after it's not scary at all...as you get used to the sensations..

Also...maybe your fear of height is due to a sum of your physical senses? you might not feel those same sensations when you OBE with your astral body. Simran is 'remembering'... so if we need to 'remember' something it means we have forgotton something...something that we used to do before...

so you will surely get the hang of it...because you've done it before...but have just forgotton

Nice answer ji,

For me i feel sudden moments of emotion of sadness etc occur during stages of surrender to Guru Ji...

for all my efforts, for all my thirst, for all my Simran in the early hours...i myself (ego) cannot make anything happen...i myself (Ego) cannot find that door where Darshan of Waheguru will occur...where do i go...?

and in those moments i fall at his feet and surrender...and call out for a helping hand...and more often than not it is in those moments where i suddenly feel pulled in close to Him...

It's a very different kind of fear.I mean whenever i try to meditate i feel like my body is going to vibrate.I know it's the fear of mind, but it's still here.

i remember the first time i got onto a Bike...my balance was not very good so i kept falling, became fearful at this new experience and doubted i could actually keep myself on the bike for longer than a couple of seconds...then one day almost miraculously i kept my balance and started riding the bike...the fear vanished. your mind will adjust in Simran and you'll get 'used to it' and bit by bit your fear will diminish.....guaranteed

How do we know if we are listening to real Shabad (Naam) or traigun bani, braham janjalla?

Well ji harsharan ji said "It is only by the power of Shabad Guru, that one can cross this region, by holding on to it, and reach Sach Khand."

Is anything happening to you that could even remotely resemble what harsharan ji is describing...

Read Guru Ji's excitement, joy, wonder, amazement when Guru Ji talks about riding the waves of shabad and getting darshan of Waheguru....

if you cannot relate to those things then chances are you are not hearing the Shabad Guru...if there is any doubt in mind as to what you are experiencing then in my opinion, the wonder has yet to manifest fully...so keep going and one day you will probably 'just know'

Chaz JI, you are referring to the Astral level only, when there are many more above it... Physical -- etheric -- astral -- mental --

So to say that the Astral realm is limited --- well yes it is... because the astral level is only a small portion of what exists. You can't experience ONEness in the astral level, but you can in levels much higher.

How do you ascend to higher levels? You have to raise your frequency to detune the astral level and tune into a higher level. And remember that consciousness is pure frequency so you have it within you. Also remember that love / caring etc are emotions which have a higher brainwave frequency... while anger and jealousy and fear cause lower brainwaves... so that is a starting point and also why seva helps. Its why those who are angry and fearful and jealous have much trouble progressing spiritually at least until they resolve the conflict.

And yes, I have experienced at least briefly the feeling of ONEness before, and while connected in that state, I lost connection to any sort of form. It was like I was the smallest pin point of consciousness, but at the same time I was everywhere. However it was very brief... I did experience the level above astral once... but never again after that one time.

Also, you ARE part of that source! YOU already know the way there.... you are NOT something separate from the creator. THAT'S the illusion...

agree with everything you say..

but we must pay very close attention to the following:

'Without the True Guru, no one has found Him; reflect upon this in your mind and see'

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=112

Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, the Lord is found; without the Shabad, people wander, deceived by doubt.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=110

So although 'deep down' we already know the way there, under the deep illusion we are in, the way cannot be seen. The Ego sense is so strong in all of us even the ones doing Astral travelling, that one cannot find their way themseves...only the Shabad Guru from our original source has the power to take us to the primal state, nothing else...the moment we think we can do this ourselves, it is a sure sign we are still very much in Ego existance.

We will spend years trying to go higher under Ego illusion...getting frustrated, having some joy, then more frustration...in the end only inner complete surrender (destruction of Ego) will allow us to hear the shabad that will literally 'pull' us through all layers...shabad is all by His grace and by His grace only...

Chaz Ji I have to disagree with some of what you wrote...

From my experiences with AP / EP while it's true that you are experiencing higher levels through other subtle bodies, there is the whole experience of what lies between those levels. It's not a direct experience... but more the knowledge that the subtle bodies are just more vehicles - but your consciousness remains intact. That means the part of you that is the experiencer, the 'doer' is not those subtle bodies at all. So it's realization through indirectly experiencing it. The direct experience with God comes from the realization that you yourself are formless... that everything is ONE, everything is the same one universal field of consciousness... therefore, the DOER in all of us is one and the same. You can experience this when you go higher (just look up a map to the planes of existence, the higher you go, the more detached and less 'personal' you become... until in the highest of realms, you actually experience ONEness. There was a GREAT diagram made by Tim Duerden based on knowledge from several spiritual paths, linking the subtle bodies to the planes, and showing where the limit of the 'personal self' etc is in the grand scheme of things... His site however is down, and I can't find it again. But there are others that illustrate it.

The way I explain OBEs: Nothing is leaving anything at all. YOU ARE. Imagine you are a radio. Only the radio is formless... basically you are pure consciousness. All that exists is pure frequency (even the physical... Einstein even said that matter is merely energy vibrating at a slow frequency) So you, the radio, are focused on only one radio station at a time... the physical, the etheric, the astral etc. You never left anything, you only 'tuned' into a higher frequency station. All stations, all frequencies however are ALWAYS received by the antenna... it's the tuner that choses the station. In our case in the physical world, as Einstein stated, low frequency = slow vibration = matter. The higher frequency you go, the higher 'stations' you tune into, you get more complex structures but less matter (for example, plasma, gases etc are higher frequency than solids). Watch an oscilloscope though as you change a pitch higher, the faster a wave vibrates, the closer the peak and trough become until you reach a point where it appears there is no more vibration, only one discrete frequency... it looks like a straight line instead of a wave. So eventually you go high enough to just experience the pure frequency itself = ONEness = God realization.

This is just a way I try to get the idea across... using a radio as comparison makes sense to me when we are talking frequency....

thanks for the reply Satkirin,

Always a pleasure to read your posts...

some quick questions when you get a moment.

you said "The direct experience with God comes from the realization that you yourself are formless... that everything is ONE, everything is the same one universal field of consciousness... therefore, the DOER in all of us is one and the same" " It's not a direct experience... but more the knowledge that the subtle bodies are just more vehicles"

In all of your OBE's and Astral Travelling...have you experienced that formlessness? and therefore direct experience of GOD/your higher self? No...as you said it is NOT a direct experience but just helps in knowledge...creating a deeper theory into what might lie ahead...we still don;t know what lies ahead..but it gives us a small amount of insight...

So Astral travel plays a part...but not to the extent that Bhagat ji is stating...that one can have direct experience of God there...

you also said "You can experience this when you go higher (just look up a map to the planes of existence, the higher you go, the more detached and less 'personal' you become... until in the highest of realms, you actually experience ONEness."

So in reality you have stated yourself that you cannot experience formless reality (god/higher self) in the Astral realm...Astral realm is only a part of the journey ahead...

and through your OBE's and astral travelling...how do you intend to get to these higher realms where you will become even more subtle until finally you dip into the ultimate reality, your higher self...and the formless forever existing God Consciousness?

Are there road signs in the Astral Realm? where to go? how will you get there? and why have you not got there already?

so as Gurbani says, your faith, dyaan, attention, focus must be on the Shabad...on Naam Simran...on your interanal Guru / Guide...as the Shabad is the ONLY thing that can take you beyond physical, Astral, Causal, and whtever else there may be...because it comes from the SOURCE...it already knows the way home.

So for all the excitement and possibility of OBE's and Astral travelling...we cannot through our own efforts wandering in these realms find our way to the SOURCE by ourselves...only GURU can take us there.

And this is the reason why gurbani keeps things very clear and concise...surrender Ego to Waheguru, and put our minds on the Shabad via Naam Simran which will be our Sat Nav. that should in my opinion be our only aim and effort...to put our arm out and surrender in the hope Guru Ji (shabad) comes and pulls us up...

wandering in the Astral Realm without our Guru/Guide will not get us any closer to Waheguru...in Fact we are more likely to get lost just like in this world without Guru/Guide because we are still influenced by the 5 thieves there also

Okay, I want to know are there any dangers of astral travel? Isn't it possible that the travel may psychologically affect the 'traveler'?

And are there any cases of possession? (I dont know If possession is even real, just saw it in the movie 'Insidous' )

two people with different mindsets can have very different views and experience whilst occupying the same street, town, city...

someone paranoid sitting in the same room as someone that isn't will generate a completely different experience of that same situation...

so do you think your mindset, state of mind will impact what you experience there?

a place where they say in many astral travel journals and books that your thoughts manifest waaaay faster than here on earth...what will manifest around you...what will you attract..what will you see...

therefore my friend...Naam Simran...and daily control of your 5 thieves and actions..

Naam Simran will open everything up for you, and you will be in the right frame of mind to advance and experience all that God has created and beyond..

Just my thoughts ji... a Very interesting subject indeed:)

Chaz

I agree with you in that astral world is just another world. However you have to be on a certain spiritual level, to get there. So it's not the same as this world.

And I agree it's not a piece of cake to meet God in the astral world and it shouldn't be marketed that way. However it is possible.

I wana point you to the book Journeys out of the Body. In this book, Robert Munroe talks about seeing God on his journey of astral travelling.

He never learned to astral travel, it just hit upon him one day and all of a sudden he could astral travel. And he talks about his journeys out of the body and all the events that took place. He documented these in his diaries and then published it as a book.

i will read the book...sounds interesting..

however lets agree to disagree here...

i will hold my opinion that the 'complete' experience/darshan of Waheguru (the formless) cannot be comprehended nor fully experienced in the 'form' for which the Astral realm is still part of...one must go beyind all form to have darshan of waheguru in formless (and the formless is the true aspect of waheguru that will not come to an end ever...

so all these wonderful books of people describing the Astral Realm with great detail and clarity and thinking they have experienced the complete 'truth' 'waheguru' in the Astral realm, i will always refuse to believe that.

I ask you this...all the juicy stuff in Gurbani...Guru Ji exploding with joy, bliss, love when darshan of Waheguru is described...why do you think they couldn;t describe this in great detail?

Astral travellers do a great job in describing their travells, write these amazing books full of detail...but Guru Ji couldn;t describe darshan of waheguru in all His spledour to us in great detail...

That should give us a hint...where the shabad will take us i am guessing, cannot be described...you cannot describe the formless with language and descriptions. Therefore giving people the idea that they can experience the complete truth in the Astral alone in my opinions is false...

like saying on my journey from the midlands to london, i can stop off in Oxford and exerience London...people start to think about oxford too much, and forget that is not where they will experience london...and if you're having trouble in getting to london...ask a friend to come up and show you the way down (shabad Guru)