paapiman

I have a question for you bro. What is the arth of this tuk according to you?

socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ]

'Sochai soch' has several meanings, some say its 'thinking, thought' others say soch as in sucham 'outer purity'.

But these are the akhree arths of that tuk. If you follow the above akhree arths, why don't you follow the akhree arth of the below mentioned tuk.

ਸੂਹਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਵਿਕਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਕੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ

The red color is vain and useless; it cannot help you obtain your Husband Lord.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

I get the impression you are fairly young and have been subject to a lot of cultural influence that put women beneath men. So you look purposely to interpret Sikhi as also putting women beneath men. I can tell in your wording and tone that you consider yourself above me simply because you have male genitalia.

I don't consider myself above you at all. In fact, you are a way better person than me. Dogs and cats like me, are born and die everyday.

Having said the above, Gurmat cannot be changed to suit to human weaknesses such as sexual pleasures, drug pleasures, food pleasures, praise pleasures, etc

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

* Gurbachan Singh lied regarding Muhammad, the audio is straight on the link (to this very forum) I posted. He just reiterated what he read somewhere, without actually researching it. He did same when making tall claims about bhagats reincarnating.

God willing, I will try to find the truth regarding this matter.

Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindrawale can never lie. Even an ordinary person is scared to tell a lie. Here, we are talking about a Brahamgyani.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Why did you keep asking me the source and now you say is there anything wrong with it?

I am off this thread, both of you show no signs of willing to learn. I have disproven Gurbachan Singhs many fake claims which he merely copied from older books without researching but you guys think its okay. Might as well believe Guru ji did atam hatya because Gurbilas says so. whats wrong with it :/

WJKK WJKF

Bro, don't get agitated. You need to explain what is wrong with Sri Hanumaan jee wearing a Kachera, which was gifted to him by Sri Ram Chandar jee?

Brahmins and yogis also kept kesh before Satguru jee came to this earth in human form. So, what's all the fuss about?

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

* Guru might have married multiple women but Gurbachan Singh is saying something baseless without any historical evidence. Many Babas are known to sprout such stories out of nowhere to encharm the masses. There is no logical explanation for an 11 or 13 year old boy marrying 7 sisters. And what were the ages of those girls then? The fact is not about question the Gurus but questioning people making false claims about the Gurus without any historical evidence, so many centuries later.

During those times, child marriages were common. A girl would be married at a very young age but she would stay with her parents till she matured. Then, the in-laws would come to receive her. There is reference to it in Gurbani too.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

You are dodging the main theme of discussion. If Gurbachan Singh made wrong statements then the Taksal Rehat can be wrong too?

One of the things I just remembered that Gurbachan Singh wrote in his book as well was Guru Har Rai marrying 7 or 8 sisters when he was an early teenager... Erm yeah sure.

Even if Satguru jee had married 1000's of women, it would have been fine as he is the Almighty.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

To Paapi, I respect Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale & even the predecessors. I like what they did, but we got to seperate views from actions. I don't believe humans are infallible. Everyone is, only our Gurus and Kartar isn't.

That's good to hear. In the same, one should also respect other prophets, saints, Hindu deities, etc. We can learn a lot from them. We should not worship them, but we must also not have any form of hatred against them.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

If you ran a quick google search it would lead to this very forum, confirming my views. And please don't be a victim of 'cognitive dissonance' just because you like Bhindranwale.

Bhindranwale had no historical basis for his assumptions but he read it in Bansawlinama and so he parrots that. I have read Bansawlinama myself, now don't ask me to produce Bansawlinama, its something you'll have to buy because I don't think its available online. But being a Sikh you should take my word for it. I have read it.

I trust you bro. I don't think you will lie, but this is Kaljugee time. There are some trolls out there to cause rifts and confusion among people. It is always good to have references ready before passing an opinion, especially on a public forum.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

And whether others have kachehra or not is of no importance. I am asking why Hanuman is mentioned and linked to our kakkaars in the same manner as authors of Daya Rehatnama and Bup Nirmala Granth mention kakkaars being a gift from those deities.

Do I care whether Muhammad had a sword like the Khalsa? Do I care whether Hanuman wore a kachehra or not? No I do not.

The reason for mentioning Sri Hanumaan jee is because he had a very high spiritual level and was one of the greatest celibates. His name is mentioned in Gurbani too. We as Sikhs, are suppose to learn from everyone. This is a basic fundamental of Sikhism.

Next, someone will ask, why is there so much reference to Hindu Deities in Gurbani? What will you say then?

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Gurbani is for all not instructions for women on how to be subservient to their husbands. In context of the shabad the second translation is the one that's correct. But you can believe what you want. You said you don't plan on being married anyway so that's good.

Today, some Sikh women cannot fathom the greatness of Satguru jee as they have not lived in those time where women were treated so badly. There is an example of this in history.

Taksal reads an old granth, believes it to be 150% true. Can't question because it is 'puratan' while your own beloved website sarbloh questioned Taksals origins linked to Baba Deep Singh. They say DDT only came into being in 20th century.

Thinks kakkaars are gifts from Hindu deities, Bhagats whose banis was in GGS needed to be reincarnated (so their bani is futile?) and what not.

Bro, I never said, all the information on sarabloh is true. I just gave a reference from it. For example, if I talk about Jesus, it does not mean that I worship him.

I had read Gurbachan Singhs book ages ago and I found alot of anti Gurmat stuff in it. Why did he find the need to link Hindu deities to our kakkaars? Ofcourse even vikings were using swords, and I'm sure other people were wearing kahcheras too? It is just their nirmala background... It doesn't matter to me if Hanuman wore a kachehra. And Rehatnama Daya Singh clearly says chandi gave kes etc etc

Please state any culture/religion (other than Hindu/Sikh), where Kachera was used as a sign of celibacy?

With references please?

And then I've heard katha of Gurbachan SIngh where he says Prophet Muhammad was a thief stealing work of some Hindu sadhu (which later formed the Quran). And where did he get this from? Bansawlinama by Kesar Singh. No research nothing, he read its and starts saying it in Katha. Thats what Im talking about.

Can you please provide us with the above mentioned katha?

Am I not on Islamawareness by any chance?

The whole concept of removing parda was because you got to control your eyes and your kaam, not wear a sheet over others' body. Ofcourse some decency needs to be maintained while clothing but you are giving rules as if we're some Sharia.

The rules are in Gurbani. In Gurbani, it clearly states that one should not wear tight clothes.

There is scientific evidence available ( I am sure some paapi people like me know it too) regarding where most of the men look, when they see a woman.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Yes, just like you chose to not believe that red is an auspicious color based on the tuks I gave, I am not ready to accept that red is a color to be avoided based on the tuks singh1234 gave.

I have a question for you bro. What is the arth of this tuk according to you?

socY soic n hoveI jy socI lK vwr ]

You havent read Bhai Gurbachan Singhs book then I think. If Bhagats were in janam-marn then their bani is useless? Thats what Taksal is implying in their book. Besides claiming that kakkaars were gifted by hindu gods (just because Daya Singh Rehatnama and another nirmala granth say it = blind faith)

Bro, Gyani jee never said that Bhagats were in janam-maran cycle. Some Bhagats, according to their will came back during the times of the tenth master. It is possible today too. If Baba Deep Singh jee wants to come back, he can come back too.

I don't think Gyani jee said that Kakkars were gifted to Khalsa by Hindu Gods. The Kakkars were in use before the panth came into existence. We cannot deny that.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Yea sure, pick and choose your faith as it pleases you I guess. Akhree arth when it suits you but not otherwise.

I was about to say that to you.....hahaha. If you reject the akhree arth of the above tuk, then you will have to be consistent and reject the akhree arths of all Gurbani tuks.

Many Gurbani tuks have multiple arths and all of them are true. There is a tuk in gurbani, which has more than 20 arths.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Find this for me will ya!

omg.. this will take time.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Regarding taking tuks out of context:

ਲਾਲ ਭਏ ਸੂਹਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਮਾਇਆ ॥

Instead of the pale color of Maya, I am imbued with the deep red color of the Lord's Love.

ਮਃ 1

ਲੋਕਾ ਵੇ ਹਉ ਸੂਹਵੀ ਸੂਹਾ ਵੇਸੁ ਕਰੀ ॥

O people: I am in red, dressed in a red robe.

ਮਃ 3

Those are the deeper meanings of this tuk. One cannot discard the akhree arth of Gurbanee. That would mean that, Gurbanee is false on akhree level.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Well me and you are similar then!

I have high respect for sant gyani gurbachan Singh and sant baba nand Singh but they are not my guru... People are worshiping Sants which is wrong.

As Sikhs, we should only worship, Satguru Sri Guru Nanak dev jee Maharaaj, the incarnation of the Almighty Lord.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Is following blindly something that the Guru wants? Someone has clearly not read Gurbani:

Gurbani teaches that one must first evaluate the philosophy, if convinced, then adopt/follow it

AGGS, M 1, P 1410: Pehla wastu sanjan kay ta keechay wapar

Highest importance is given on the deliberation and discussion on the sabd of the Guru

AGGS, M 1, P 904: Sabsay Uppar gur sabd beechar

mportance of first listening and then expressing oneself as long as one lives in the world, is an important feature of the Gurbani

AGGS, M 1, P 661 :Jab lag dunia rahiey Nanak kish suniey kish kahiey

if there is any doubt it can be resolved by sitting together in the sangat and discussing the matter fully attuned to the Almighty

AGGS, M 5, P 1185: Hoey ikatar mileh mere bhai dubida dur kar liv laey

Gurbani says: Those who have discriminating intellect can understand things in their real perspective, and those who have the discriminating intellect are wealthy in knowledge.

AGGS, M 5, P 285: Bhujay Bhujanhar bibake

AGGS, M 5, P 1150 : So dhanwanta jis budh bibake

Gurbani explains that researchers progress while the others who move aimlessly from one topic to the other, disintegrate

AGGS, M 1, P 1255: Khoji Upjay badi Binsay hao bal gur kartara

Following blindly means, not to question Satguru's jee actions or create doubts on Satguru jee. It does not mean, one should not listen to Gurbani veechar.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Paapi, Gurbachan Singh or Nand Singh are not above Gurbani for me.

Have some respect bro, for such people of such high avastha. People respect their elders so much even though, they are just kaljugee beings. At least, write a suffix of 'jee' to their names. Gurbani instructs us to respect saints a lot.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Missionaries over-question and Taksalis under-question.

That's a big difference. One follow Satguru jee blindly and others, I don't want to comment.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Was this taksali Singh a real student of damdami taksal or a so called self proclaimed taksali?

I think, it was Gyani Thakur Singh jee.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

If wearing some color was discouraged it would have been there in bani, or atleast there would have been hints?

Are you 100% sure that there is no reference to red or green color in Gurbani (including Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee)?

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh