palm_w1

Iran must be prevented from getting its hands on a nuclear device at all costs, if that means the US has to bomb their military and research installations so be it. I can't think of anything worse than a tin pot third world country run by fanatics getting there hands on the most destructive man made weapons.

Realistically they will never get it as the zionists will never allow it.

in reply to the title of this topic, definately yes, and still continues to be spread through manipulation, violence, and threats. Although it is also spread through none coercive means to.

i just visited this forum after a long long time, haven't posted for years and i feel what drawof is saying, a lot of BS. The forum has definately gone down hill, can't see much pyaar here.

however i do feel i have to make some posts to counteract some dangerous ideologies being propogated here.

italia heading into final 16,

ant gonna be long till i post, 'i told u so'

lol, don't hold ur breath!

"Get a one way ticket to Khalistan and fight it out with the Indian government or any other clownish state organisation.

You chose to idealise him: I idealise none.

Again I just say that they are as worse as each other. But then again I guess that means I must be a traitor..."

Don't get emotional man, your labelling yourself there, not my words. Just look at the facts rather than getting emotinal and hot headed, and perhaps making grandiose statements without the evidence to back them up.

My opinion on Mahmoods book: it is pretty good, and based upon FACT (sources stated throughout the book), rather than hearsay.

My opinion on Bhindrawale, he was great person but human, he made some hot headed statements in the heat of the moment that i don't agree with. Such as burning amritdharis who drank alcohol. But compared to the amount of good he did i think the scales tip in favour.

Jai Hind

"If people like you dream of a state without barbers and where the diet is restricted to saron da saag and makhi di roti good for you but I believe we were born to achieve much more than that and that the world is not restricted to Gurdaspur disctrict."

I have to agree with Dhillon, you are jumping to big assumptions about what he thinks and perhaps libelling people. I would classify myself as a khalistani but wouldn't welcome being subjugated or living under the taliban regime you think any proposed state would be. I don't think it is valid for you to make assumptions that all people who have thought processes you do not agree with are all extremists with a uniform agenda and views. Believe it or not, not all kahlistanis are extremists, might be a hard pill for you to swallow. Stop labelling people.

"Hindu Nationalism which I hate passionately as much as I hate Wahabism and Neo-Sikhism."

and don't hate, it blinds your judgement and makes u no better than a wahibist or salafist

"As I said before I think the only difference between the militants and the Indian government is the uniform: all I see is men enacting violence on civilians. The ones do it in the name of a saffron nishan sahib the others for India's triranga.It's just the colours that are different: the cruelty is the same!"

joker, i dunno if i shud really start to answer this. Difference was Indian forces went out to destroy a peoples self belief and destiny, through indiscriminate murder, rape and rampage. They were centrally organised. Sikh freedeom fighters tended to battle these terrorists. There were some sikhs who also committed crimes, however we have to remember that a lot of these people acted individually, there was no central organisation giving them orders, unlike the indian govt. There are massive differences, there are plenty of threads on this subject already. I really don't want to have to go off on long ones and have to start writing about subjects which are well covered on this forum already.

"Bhai Ranjit Singh actually visited Jarnail Singh Bhindranvala at the Golden Temple Complex before the attack of the Indian army. Bhindranvala refused to see him and this is a fact."

Can you woute sources for this. and i mean reliable sources, not your beloved KPS Gill

also i think international law promotes a peoples right to self determination. something that the indian regime has denied many states trhoughout the union of india, as well as numerous other violations of international law. its ironic that indian state apologists then use it to justify the attack on harmandir sahib.

furthermore Sukhraj is university educated, and from a top university at that, so lets stop the mudlsinging, it doesn't befit a singh to have so much hankar and look down at ppl with such sorts of superiority complexes.

Converting holy sites into military functionalities is and has always been considered an offense. Temples, churches, mosques, gurdvare are places of worship NOT fortresses. To transform them into such especially when there is no need for it is an offense.In fact in international law it is considered a crime.

When al Sadr tried to convert the shrine of Najaf into a military functionality he was heavily condemned by the Shi'a clergy for that. It was, is and will always be unacceptable to do that. Especially in Bhindranvala's case because he had no reason to do it. If he wanted to wage war on the Indian government he should have done what other generations of Sikhs did before: use the Shivallik hills. Instead he used Akal Takht as a shield in order to exert cheap and nasty emotional blackmail. How disgusting!!!

Can you use any sikh references to say the akal takht or any gurudwara should not be used for political purposes, as far as i know politics is a highly integral part of sikhi. Please givr sikh sources which criticise rather than trying to view histroy through anglocised constructs. international law refers to state entities, not individual people.

And stop being an apologist for indian state terrorism.

Nowadays alot of people cry out about Baba santa singh taking money from the government, I would just like to remind those people that in the sikh diaspora, mainy of those who support khalistan have built their gurdwaras and run camps etc, claiming money and grants from their respective goverments.

Dude with all respect to nihungs santa singh was played by the indian govt to become the front man of their much needed requirement to get a known sikh to rebuild the takht. its not like he went to the govt and requested money. they contacted him as they needed somebody, and he fell for it hook, line and sinker. lets face it hes only human and can make mistakes, not the faultless demi god some nihungs make him out to be. i think bhindrawale was right in most things and support him a lot but i think he did do some wrong as well. don't have blind faith

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publication/.../falsehood4.htm

bahadur sometimes you amaze me singh. Your an educated guy and a lecturer, surely you know the difference between a biased source and an unbiased one. KPS Gill was a notorious terrorist by everyones reckoning yet you quote him like hes reliable.

Can we also get pictures of those innocent people tortured by Bhindranvale's men?

bhindrawales men or people who just claim to follow him? does this justify the attempted genocide by india?

Try transforming one of India's major religious shrines into a fortress and ask yourself:"Is the army going to attack?"

try destroying a people, their language, culture, religion and way of life and then ask, are those people going to resist?

theres a speech where bhindravale said he would kill 50,000 hindus if the government of india does not return their bus , which the govt of india stole.

let me look for it

have u found this speech? i would be interested to hear it as personally i believe it does not exist. i think the speech u refer to was made at maddison sq gardens, nyc in 1986 by a canadian.

looking at Argentinas performance against the serbs they must be favourites now. England are gonna crack against any big team they play, and they will meet germany soon. i have a sneaky feeling the germans will do it. brazil may do well but only due to the quality of individual players, as a team they ain't gelling well.

and judging by italy's performance today, well, enoguh said . . . . . .

i registered 1984.org.uk back in the day but never got round to setting anything up. just did a whois look up and its not in my name anymore so i guess it must have expired. would have sent u that otherwise.

lol, desi's kill it off.

any place, any religion, they try and rinse it for $$$$.

look into the history of kartarpuri bir, i think the ppl that hold it r descendants. i cud be wrong, just remember reading something.

i really think this woman is one cold hearted b*tch. can she not bring herself to admit a crime was committed agianst these ppl. Reading between the lines i get a vibe that these ppl are gold diggers rather than victims.

its a fact that white canadians have carried out mass racism in the past, against sikhs and the first nations, where they kidnapped all their children then sexually abused them in churches.

those ppl seem very intolerant. There not really there to learn, they just close minded fascists who seem to want to denigrate others but make it seem like something intellectual.

also their arguments are pretty illogical, and they don't seem to question there own beliefs.

According to UK law since the house of lords said so.

But i see your point. However an attack on the basis of religion (which this seems to be) is just as bad as an attack based upon the colour of someones skin.

Ignorance of Sikhi is something that is widespread, partially due to the sikhs themselves, however this in no way justifies these sorts of cowardly attacks. I don't know much about Judaism but that doesn't mean I should go around burning down synagogues.

Everyones too quick to say its racism, they attack us because they dont have an idea to who we are.

I would say attacking people due to ignorance is racism. To say I attack you because you are different is racist.

Where is the closest Gurudwara to Manhatton?

VLSI??

As for job prospects you need to have an offer from an employer and the onus on the employer is to advertise the job widely in the UK and get no suitable candidates before they give the job to a non Brit.

well if they can't even control there own like phoola how they gonna control other sects.

Apaulling crime, these people need to go down for life to send a message that these crimes are unnaceptable and will not be tolerated. Fat chance of that happening in India though, if these guys are rich i bet they walk.