angy15

I don't know where that logic comes from.They have never spoken ill abt the contents and teaching of SGGS. Regarding Dr Dhillion and other great scholars ,its the usual faith of every scholars.Its not an exception but rule that scholar is bound to be misunderstood for a simple reason they are sometime far ahead of time. If you guys hate them so much beacuse you believe they speak anti Gurmat then why not use that magic stick which Guru Har Krishan Ji used on chajju Ram .BTW which sant/Baba has that magic stick? May be they can understand the gist of Gurbani then!!! Satnam

I am sorry for you being so ignorant .They have never said anything against Sri Guru Granth Sahib. But yes they question against some practices and rituals which are being done in the name of religion. SGGS does not consider it anti Gurmat .So stop blaming them. Dhumma is no match to Sant Jarnail Singh.He is more of a Political gigure rather than Relgious preacher just a puppet of the Central Governemnt. His main role and responsibility was to to prachar. You will hardly see him doing katha of SGGS .

Again it brings to my analysis which I mentioned earlier As mentioned earlier there are two school of thoughts emerging 1. Sampardias based on traditional interpretation based on Sakhis/Stories 2. Sikh Missionary based on Prof Sahib Singh and other modern scholars(Tat Gurmat,) Whether its Ranjit Singh or Jarnail Singh there interpretation has to pass through these lines. ਜੋ ਸ਼ਬਦ /ਵਿਚਾਰ ਗੁਰੂ 'ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ' ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕਸਵੱਟੀ 'ਤੇ ਪੂਰੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਉਤਰਦੀ, ਉਹ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਸਵਾਹ ਹੈ. Even Guruji answers it in his verse below: ਭਸੈ ਊਪਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹੋਰ ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਉ ਨ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਰੁ ॥ Satnam

@chatanga1 I think there is no point going forward in this debate debate . I already given details which you don't accept. I am asking you the third time why u not accepting the theory of Brahmanism given above whats wrong in it .According to you what is Bramansim then. Is sacrificing goat not Brahmani practice .What kind of bravery is this killing innocent animal So let me ask you are all these rituals practices Gurmat or not. Plz answer then we may move foreword.

Criticizing people who are running Taksaals(DHUMMA party) doesn't make him anti Gurmat . SGGS is not based on any rituals. People like you are only criticizing because he is not a chamcha of Badals just like Dhumma is .Most Taksalis don't even heed him, he's pretty much leading his own rogue faction now.Honestly, no real taksali prefers Dhumma Let us see the history and character of this man Dhumma After Baba Takhur Singh passed away in 2004, there was a lot of controversy over who the next head of the Damdami Taksal should be. One possibility was Bhai Mohkum Singh. Some sources claim that this became a big concern for Indian agencies, considering the past conflicts between the Indian state and the Damdami Taksal. The agencies worked towards ensuring that Bhai Mohkum Singh does not become the head. KPS Gill is said to have taken part in this as well. KPS Gill also had close affiliations with Harnam Singh Dhumma. In 2005, Harnam Singh Dhumma became the head of the Damdami Taksal. It is important to note that Dhumma is an American citizen, which means he required a visa to live in India. This was of course reassuring to the Indian agencies, as they can cancel his visa at any time if they feel the need to do so. Over the years, Dhumma’s relations with the Punjab government became more transparent. At one point, this Taksal was the worst enemy of the Indian state and Punjab government. But now, Dhumma is often seen with security cars and bodyguards provided by the government. So , Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhandrianwale began reminding the Sikh sangat of this situation. He went as far as accusing Dhumma of being a “sarkari sant” (government sant). The video of Ranjit Singh went viral on social media, angering Dhumma’s jatha. This lead to an ongoing Facebook war between the two groups and their supporters. Well this video gives enough replies to all you Dhumma followers. Please tell us what has Dhumma done for Punjab and Sikh community .Why is he called called a Sarkari Sant.

Well that video was on what Brahamanism is.What he says abt other practices we are not discussing here.There are many from your Sant Samaj who also speak so much crap somtimes. We should stick to our discussion Ranjit Singh versus Taksal .I am still awaiting for a complete video from his smagham in which Ranjit Singh has spoken against Gurmat .Plz Dont give that b grade edited videos of USA wale .They are all out of context.

i have presented which i feel what Brahmanism . When he says its a virus he means the practices which have creeped into out religion from brahmins. Now if you don't agree with this kind of Brahmanism .Plz tell me according to you what is Brahmanism.Then only we can move foreward .I Thats too much of a criticism .He is a historian and he has reserached more on sikhi than any one from your Sant Samaj . Now it again reminds of Bibi Kiranjot tweet .You guys just want force your style of sikhi and reject others

You are no match to his intellect .You will never understand his work.

Why dont' you accept above given explanation of Brahmanism?

Don't keep asking , I think you don't want to understand what Brahmanism is? Because you yourself is a part of that system . Rest you can research yourself instead of dragging the discussion without any substance . Well if a Historian like him speaks abt it may be yes. You and I are not scholars in this filed at the moment.

Please go ahead .I would love to know abt these practices from you because it will help me in my discussion with my fellow hindu friends that Sikhs and Hindu have very common practices .Also e i can share this information with my local Gurudwaras and maybe we have maha prasad serving in our local Gurudwara Langar too. Our agenda in this discussion is to prove Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala preaches anti Gurmat .And Taksali & Co. are the only authoritarian of Sikh preaching

And Dr Dhillion a renowned schloar who has done his Phd in Singh Sabha movement will tell you what Bhramanasim is in detail.Defination is at the end of the video

No he has nothing to say abt the practices of his fellow sikhs so all he is struck with one word . If these videos posted are not Brahmanism ritualistic practices what are these .You please study ancient Vedas and you will find these practices Let the renowned scholars give you an answer what Brahmanism influnece in sikhsim is Prof Puran Singh defines it when he quoted the following “It is to be regretted that Sikh and Hindu scholars are interpreting Guru Nanak in the futile terms of the colour he used, the brush he took; are analyzing the skin and flesh of his words and dissecting texts to find the Guru’s meaning to be the same as of the Vedas and Upanishad! This indicates enslavement to the power of Brahmanical tradition. Dead words are used to interpret the fire of the Master’s soul! The results are always grotesque and clumsy translations which have no meaning at all.” Taran Singh, the then Head, Department of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Studies, Punjabi University, Patiala, admits that the Sikh and non-Sikh writers belonging to various Viakhia Parnalian (Schools of Interpretations) of 18th and 19th centuries had accepted that Gurus’ philosophy is based on Vedantic philosophy:

You please ask the missionaries what kind of brahmanism you like to hear abt.

@chatanga1 Now its looking childish on your part . I think I've run out of ways to try and explain .You are just avoiding to accept the reality . You can follow your practice of sikhi and enjoy the MAHA PRASAAD(meat) in your Langar .

Do you find any similarity between these images . The picture on the left was one of the central rites of Brahmanism(done by bhramin hindu) during the ancient time .One of the vedas text mentions it as The Tipiñaka records one sacrifice conducted by a brahmin named Uggatasarãra during which `five hundred bulls, five hundred steers and numerous heifers, goats and rams were brought to the sacrificial post for slaughter' (A.IV,41). What appears on the right appears to be the same practice/tradition continuing.Now why not call them keshdhari Brahmins BTW on lighter note you profile pic also has a goat in it . I hope you dont' belong to the same school of thoughts as them.

So you are more concerned with what Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala is doing ,but does not want to comment on the useless practices going on in our Gurudwaras beacuse he does not fit with the principles of Sant Samaj.

Then According to you what exactly are they doing.These practices are more common in Hindu temple.

Dont get agitated .I take your point . I have already posted some of the practices in sikhism which are Brahmanism which were are common in Hindhuism which was rejected by our Gurus. Thats the Brahmanism I am referring to so stop asking me again and again and .

Well there is not much of a difference in the interpretation "others' can be expressed as Lord , The whole shabad has the same message as what i have expressed The rahao part "Oh you blind (Dandariwala and Taksali) this world is of very short time. Both of you listen and express each other and sing prasies of lord devoid of all vicious and sinful actions .

Any ways this discussion can keep on going without any winner .Message to both the group : This crisis's can only be resolved if this philosophy of Nanak is followed: ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰਹੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥ Jab Lag Dhuneeaa Reheeai Naanak Kishh Suneeai Kishh Keheeai || As long as one lives in this world one must listen to others and express oneself to the others (to find the truth).

Did not get you what you are asking. please elaborate!!

I guess you are very eager to Know what it is: Some of the videos i have uploaded too . 1. Goat Sacrifice at Hazur Sahib: An interesting letter in the Spokesman of March 1998 describes an incident regarding a the-goat sacrifice at Hazur Sahib,Nanded on Hola Mohalla. This, it seems, is an annual affair even though "no sanction of any Granth was behind this practice, and such practices were observed only in Hindu temples, but under Brahmanical influence somebody had introduced it at Hazur Sahib, and so far none had been able to stop it none of the Sant Smaj or Takhts even though it is blatantly against Sikh tenets reacted to it 2. Aarti: The practice of doing Aarti, in Patna Sahib which the Dass has witnessed is surely against Gurmat: "Near the end, Aarti was performed. During the whole of this prayer a tray of candles was circled in front of the Guru Granth Sahib, as part of the worship. Flowers were distributed to the sangat to be thrown at the appropriate time towards the Guru Granth Sahib." Now if this isn't 'Brahmanism' what is this? 3.Associating Sikh Gurus with Hindu Deities: There is a painting of the Sikh Gurus at the entrance with Sri Krishna in Patna sahib What was so striking was that their faces were all placed on the body of a cow…, specially at the doorsteps of a Takht. its Jathedhar proudly say Guru Gobind Singh is son of Luv and Khush. Since many of the members in this forum are influenced by taksali traditions. I would like someone to please tell what was the intention of making two Gurudwara one in Nanded and PAtna Sahib as Takht during British rule. 4. A Bath for the Guru Granth Sahib: There are some Sikhs in Jammu "worship Guru Granth Sahib in the manner Hindu idols are worshipped" by wrapping the volume (bir) in a plastic cover and bathing it. That does not leave much difference between Sikhism and Brahmanism, does it? You can kindly refer your Taksalis rehat mariyada if you want to justify it. Well I feel Dhandirawala has not got to such an extent to distort Gurmat for which you all have joined to make him anti gurmat than these usless rituals performed in our Gurudwaras I would like your Youtube corrospondent (USA wale) to make a video on this and give his opinion too (just for a change ) Ang Sang Waheguru

Absolutely , What prove does anyone have they people are not lying. These tricks are very common in India to defame someone .Just to give view on it will be wasting on time. I cannot trust Jaswinder singh because his only mission sitting in USA is searching , editing ,cutting ,pasting and uploading videos and giving his useless opinion .

Its very sad you guys have gone to such a low level to prove your point.putting these cheap videos just to prove a point .What is the authenticity of this video .Ha the family filed a police case .If I say they have been paid to speak against him.These kind of videos circulates in thousand in india just to blackmail or harass people.Please grow up