Trimandeep Singh

Thanks Bhai sahib for motivating me. I also heard from gursikhs that as we deep dive into understanding bani, the more we go in, the more we explore those never-heard-before areas. First, Gurbani is Agaadh Bodh. Second, bani also reduces our pride. As we read bani, we consider ourself more nikamma and moorakh and become more of a SIKH, that we don't know anything, it is only Satguru Ji who can bless us. Vaheguru! Bhai sahib, this is not a new issue. Even Mahakavi Bhai Santokh Singh Ji talks about this. I respect your opinions that Raagmaala is bani. However, one is influenced a lot by sangat. I am very much influenced by Gurmat Bibek Gursikhs/Tapoban Sahib Gursikhs or you can say AKJ gursikhs. I have also done research on Raagmala to know the points of people against and in favour of Raagmala. As we are the one left with choice to read it or not, I don't read it. Somehow, I found AKJ opinion more logical and in line with Gurmat. Anyways, main point is that we can't conclude on an online platform if it's bani or not. We have Brahmgyani and Mahaan scholars on both sides. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji and all AKJ Mahapurakhs, Vidya Martand Pandit Kartar Singh Daakha, Joginder Singh Talwara Ji were against it and Taksaal, Nanaksar and majority Panth is in favour. However, instead of looking at the difference in opinion we must also look at the love between puratan AKJ and Taksal gursikhs. Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji called Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji a Sant. Sant Kartar Singh Ji would himself serve Langar to Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji. Baba Harnaam Singh Ji Rampur Khera attended the bhog of sehaj Paath despite knowing bhog would be at mundawni. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji would shower love on Babbar Khalsa Jodhe and Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh Ji. In 1978, gursikhs of both sides gave shaheedi to protect the honour of their guru. It's better not to touch these sensitive topics or else we all will be labelling each other as Kurehtis and Tankhaiye. Bhai Sahib, when did I say I want to become Bhai Pinderpal Singh Ji? Only virle gursikhs can have so much dedication and knowledge about Gurmat. It's my bad that I didn't elaborate. I didn't mean that everyone should leave their work and start doing khoj. I meant to say that we need to do research on Gurbani. We need to inspire others to make efforts to understand bani. Those people who actually have the chaah to become kirtanis and parcharaks and do panthic Sewa, the panth will take care of their household needs through Daswandh. And we should also start with our own family and inspire them to explore this anmol khazaana. Only if we encourage our friends and family to do gurmat deeds, even then it is great panthic Sewa. Main Point is naam japna, Kamaayi karni and doing Sewa of Panth as much as we can. Starting online Santhiya and gurmat vichar classes and using technology to reach mass sangat will also benefit a lot. Contributing to the vichar in this thread will also be a great Sewa by gursikhs. May Guru sahib do kirpa and bless his beloved gursikhs to do Sewa and Simran and do mass parchaar of Sikhi. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh (India)

Sangat Ji, today I attended the second last class of Tav Prasad Saviyye Santhiya and here I would like to aware you of popular mistakes in gutke and Gurbani apps. ********************************* 2nd Saviyya ਏਤੇ ਭਏ ਤੁ ਕਹਾ ਭਏ ਭੂਪਤਿ ਅੰਤ ਕੋ ਨਾਂਗੇ ਹੀ ਪਾਂਇ ਪਧਾਰੇ॥੨॥੨੨॥ In many gutke, ਭੂਪਤਿ is written as ਭੂਪਤ which is misprint. 3rd Saviyya ਗੁੰਜਤ ਗੂੜ ਗਜਾਨ ਕੇ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਹਿੰਸਤ ਹੈਂ ਹਯਰਾਜ ਹਜਾਰੇ॥ In many gutke, ਹੈਂ is written as ਹੀ which is misprint. In 4th Saviyya ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਦਮ ਦਾਨ ਸੁ ਸੰਜਮ ਨੇਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਬਿਸੇਖੈ॥ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਜਮੀਨ ਜਮਾਨ ਸਬਾਨ ਕੇ ਪੇਖੈ॥ ਪਉਨ ਅਹਾਰ ਜਤੀ ਜਤ ਧਾਰ ਸਬੈ ਸੁ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਹਜਾਰਕ ਦੇਖੈ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਭਜੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭੂਪਤਿ ਏਕ ਰਤੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਏਕ ਨ ਲੇਖੈ॥੪॥੨੪॥ Notice the last word in all panktis have Dulaavan on ਖ, that is, ਖੈ. However, in first three panktis the correct spellings of the last words are ਬਿਸੇਖੇ, ਪੇਖੇ, ਦੇਖੇ and the ਲੇਖੈ in last pankti is to read as it is only. ਲੇਖੈ is already correct. In 6th Saviyya ਗਾੜ੍ਹੇ ਗੜ੍ਹਾਨ ਕੇ ਤੋੜਨਹਾਰ ਸੁ ਬਾਤਨ ਹੀਂ ਚਕ ਚਾਰ ਲਵੱਯਾ॥ In many gutke, ਕੇ is written as ਕੋ which is misprint. In 8th Saviyya ਕੋਟਿ ਇਸਨਾਨ ਗਜਾਦਿਕ ਦਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਸੁ ਅੰਬਰ ਸਾਜ ਬਰੈਂਗੇ॥ In many gutke, ਇਸਨਾਨ is written as ਸਨਾਨ which is misprint. In 9th Saviyya ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹੋਂ ਸੁਨ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਭੈ ਜਿਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਕੀਓ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੯॥੨੯॥ In many gutke, ਕਹੋਂ is written as ਕਹੌਂ which is misprint ********************************** Everything above is based on research of puratan handwritten saroops by Ex Akaal Takht Jathedar Late Singh Sahib Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti Ji. Daas will keep on posting on this thread as I come to know about these printing mistakes. I again request all sangat to contribute to this thread. You can write the panktis or words which you found differently written/printed in gutka sahib or Gurbani apps and sangat here can do vichar or I can ask Giani Jee. Daas is 100% sure that if sangat enthusiastically contributes to this thread, the benefit that the readers will get will be ਅਤੁਲ (immeasurable). I expect @Soulfinder @Ragmaala @paapiman @sevak @chatanga1 @sarabatam@Samarbir Singh @Jageera @GurjantGnostic @WaheguruDaGulam @ragnarok @Noobhere @PCSJZ etc who read bani and who I have talked to on this forum to contribute in this thread. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh (INDIA)

Bhai sahib please refrain from touching topics like Raagmaala. The whole Panth has come to a conclusion through advice by Panthic Scholars so let's not label it a conspiracy. Answering your question, it's not read at Akaal Takht Sahib but in Sri Darbar Sahib it is read. Also, we can't rely on SGPC. SGPC is controlled by Malechhs. Initially Keski was a mandatory Rehat for bibis but sadly, just because the wife of a powerful SGPC leader refused to wear a keski, they didn't mention it in the Rehat Maryada. If we start pressurizing the SGPC to print only Larivaar Saroops, they would surely refuse. Their major revenue comes from 'selling' Guru Sahib Pad Ched Saroops to people (yes, selling because it is a business for them) and how would Badal read bani from Larivaar? (Maybe he doesn't even read any) Anyways, it's also sad that despite having access to puratan handwritten saroops, Damdami Taksal Press has still adopted the current position of Manglacharans and taken only a few steps to correct spelling mistakes. It's in the hands of our generation now to do khoj and do research in puratan saroops like Talwara Ji and Vedanti Ji so that our Virsa can be preserved. We need our generation to produce more of Pinderpals, Nirmal Singhs, Talwaras, Vedantis and Inderjeets. We desperately need a leader like Sant Attar Singh, Sant Kartar Singh, Bhai sahib Randhir Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh Ji to start another Gurudwara Sudhaar Lehar and preserve our khazaana before the RSS or BJP govt start their Aurangzebi Raaj. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh India

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Daas also wants to request sangat on the forum that those who can't attend the classes or don't want to for any reason can post the inaccuracies you found while reading bani on this thread. You can also ask about the uchaaran of certain words. Sangat can do vichar on the basis of Gurbani grammar and knowledge and come up with a solution. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh (India)

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Daas wants to forward some really useful information to sangat on this forum. MISTAKES IN GUTKE AND GURBANI APPS: Those people who listen to Nitnem Paath from different paathis on YouTube like Taksaal, Nanaksar, AKJ, or those who have read bani from different Pothis or Gurbani apps must have noted that there are some (sometimes many) differerences in their uchaaran (audio) and in spellings of different words and the position of mangals and sirlekhs. Today,the reason for so many inaccuracies in gutke and Gurbani apps are the selfish motives of the Gurbani press and SGPC and ignorance of panthic jathebandis. To earn profits, they just keep on printing gutke and senchis without doing any research. Back then, a great Panthic Scholar Daarji Joginder Singh Talwara Ji was appointed by the panth to do research on puratan saroops of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Pothi sahibs to reduce the differences in saroops. He researched for more than 3 decades and came up with his excellent works which were really ahead of his time. Daas will give an example in the end. SANTHIYA AND VICHAR: Due to the request of UK Sangat, Ex Akaal Takht Jathedar Late Singh Sahib Joginder Singh Vedanti (who was a student of Taksaal and later Talwara Ji) started a Sangat Santhiya class to teach Santhiya and aware sangat of the correct spellings according to puratan handwritten saroops. Daas has joined the Santhiya classes and they are very useful. Currently, our teacher is Bhai Surjit Singh Sabhra, head Granthi of Gurudwara Ber Sahib and we are doing Santhiya of Sri Tav Prasad Saviyye. Very knowledgeable gursikhs also attend the class and come up with views of different scholars on uchaaran and spellings of words like Talwara Ji, Vedanti Ji, Taksaal, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha etc and with sangati vichar, we are able to make our uchaaran more shudh and read words according to Puratan Saroop spellings. If you wish to join, here is the link https://chat.whatsapp.com/GXRJKCmVfd23EfplJYM61d Timings of the class: Saturday and Sunday 1:00-2:00 pm UK 5:30-6:30 pm India (You can convert the time according to your time zone) ****************************************** EXAMPLE OF INACCURACY: SRI JAAP SAHIB: If we ask 3 people that how do they start Sri Jaap Sahib, one will say 1. ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥ ॥ ਜਾਪੁ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥ 2. ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹਿ॥ ਜਾਪੁ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥ Which one is correct? According to the pictures of handwritten puratan saroops given below, the FIRST ONE is correct. ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library) ਸੰਨ 1755 ਈ. ਦੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਾਪੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਰਜ਼। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library) ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: ਗੁਰਤੇਜ ਸਿੰਘ ਏ.ਐਸ.ਆਈ., Punjab Digital Library) ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਛੋਟੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪੋਥੀ। ਸੰਨ 1831 ਈ. ਦੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: ਦਿੱਲੀ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਕਮੇਟੀ, Punjab Digital Library) SRI ANAND SAHIB: There's a prachalit version of Mangal of Anand Sahib. ‘ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ’ appears before ‘ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ’ However, according to puratan handwritten saroops, the manglacharan is ‘ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ’ appears after ‘ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ’ HOWEVER, After 1735, the handwritten saroops didn't have ਰਾਗੁ in their manglacharan. Their manglacharan was reverse of current manglacharan- ‘ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ’ appears after ‘ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ’ ਸ਼੍ਰੋਮਣੀ ਕਮੇਟੀ ਵਲੋਂ ਛਪਾਈਆਂ ਗਈਆਂ ਪੰਜ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਵਾਲੀ ਪੋਥੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਫੋਟੋਆਂ। ਖੱਬੇ: ਸਤੰਬਰ ੧੯੫੮ ਦੀ ਛਪਾਈ ਪੰਜ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਪੋਥੀ। ਸੱਜੇ: ਸਤੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੦ ਦੀ ਛਪਾਈ ਪੰਜ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਪੋਥੀ। ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਪੋਥੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੋ ਕਿਹਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਛੇਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਪੋਥੀ ਹੈ। ਸੰਨ 1695 ਈ. ਦੀ ਰਾਮਰਾਇ ਵਾਲੀ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library) ਸੰਨ 1714 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library) SAROOPS AFTER 1735 WITH DIFFERENT MANGLACHARAN (RAAG OMITTED IN RAAG RAMKALI ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ ) ਸੰਨ 1746 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: ਤਖਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕੇਸਗੜ੍ਹ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਨੰਦਪੁਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ) ਸੰਨ 1749 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਬੀੜ। ਸੰਨ 1801 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library) ****************************************** CONCLUSION: Many inaccuracies like these are discussed by sangat along with Santhiya vichar. Daas requests sangat here to take out just 2 hours of the week and contribute to the vichar in the class. This will benefit many. Yesterday, we pointed out 2 mistakes in SGPC Gutka and Head Granthi Sahib (Bhai Surjit Singh Sabhra) said that he will approach SGPC authorities today and make them aware of the mistakes. By contributing to the vichar, we can help ourselves as well as the concerned Sikhs. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh (INDIA)

Sikhs don't require this astrologer as they read Japji Sahib everyday. Guru Gobind Singh Ji knows everything, hehe. Trimandeep Singh

1. What was the reason guru sahib removed the pauri? Can you also give the source of the saakhi? 2. Guru Nanak Dev Ji sung bani as he received it from Sachkhand. As he received the bani He would sing it and give updesh to sangat. So my point is that bani is already perfect. There's no need to add or omit anything. 3. We are no-one to decide what guru sahib can do and cannot do. He can do anything he wishes to. But this doesn't mean that if someone says that Guru sahib did this xyz thing (which is morally wrong), we believe it and say whatever he did we can't understand his plays. We shouldn't believe these manmati things because Guru Sahib is perfect and can't do anything immoral. Bani is perfect. 4. Also, the source says that Guru Angad Dev Ji removed the pauri so that no-one can do that karamaat again in future. So, if today Udaasis have found that pauri then this means they can do that karamaat again. This would mean that Guru Angad Dev Ji couldn't successfully fulfill his objective of hiding that pauri from aam sangat. Can guru sahib failing be possible? Also, guru sahib must have hidden that pauri or given updesh to sangat to not read it again. Then how come Udaasis know that this pauri was part of which Baani, was written by which guru and why this pauri is not in Guru Granth Sahib? If someone finds such writings, the first thing he'll think is that it may be a kachi bani. In puratan gutke and saroop of guru sahib, people would write about their lineage and some family secrets at the end in poetic style. But Panth used its Bibek Budhi and rejected those writings. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Even if Bhai Gurdaas Ji was a celibate, it doesn't matter. If he has written that Grihast Jeevan is the highest jeevan in Dharam then I accept it as Satbachan. His household life was not written under the hukam of guru sahib. The marriage and the life partner of a gursikh is pre ordained by Guru Sahib. If guru sahib wanted him to do Sewa of Panth and his household life was not written, then there's no harm in this. Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Karam Singh Ji, Sant Isher Singh Ji, Sant Attar Singh Ji all didn't marry not because they believed that household life is a hurdle in bhagti but because it was the hukam of Vaheguru. How can these Sants not know importance of Gristi jeevan when clearly given by Bhai Gurdaas Ji? They knew but accepted hukam of guru sahib. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Sanyasis are those Sidhs who completely renounced worldly life and went to the mountains to do jap tap. Nihungs are the Chakravarti Khalsa who still earn through farming and live in dal chhaunis instead of going to mountains. Trimandeep Singh

Yes sure Bhai Sahib Ji. An ardaas of even a rehitvaan Gursikh who hasn't reached Brahmgyani avastha will surely be answered by Guru Sahib as long as the demand/need is in line with Gurmat. But no-one can receive naam from a Brahmgyani or by doing ardaas to guru sahib to give him naam. Possibly, guru sahib may send his gursikhs to the jigyasu to give him khande di pahaul or he may send Shaheed Singhs as happened with Baba Mitt Singh Ji Hazoor Sahib. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

If the opinion was of some gursikh of puratan samprada, then would it be 100% correct? I don't think jathebandi plays a role in this. If a gursikh is rehitvaan and naam abhyaasi then we can certainly listen to him and accept his opinion as Satbachan. AKJ doesn't matter to me. It is the Kamaayi and abhyaas of these gursikhs that matters. They are Panj Granthi nitnemis and they have done sangat of many jot vigasis. I think they would have enough gyaan to answer this. Perhaps, Bhai Sahib you can also attach clippings of Mahapurush of other sampradas related to this topic and we can mutually decide Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

READ THIS SAAKHI SAAKHI STARTS Bhai Moola, Bhai Sooja, Bhai Chandu, Bhai Raamdaas Bhandaari, Bhai Baala and Bhai Sayeen Daas came to Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee Maharaj and asked a very important and pertinent question about way the system of Karma works in Sikhi. They asked if the Paap (sins) and Punn (good deeds) of Gursikhs are accounted for and rewarded separately or are they netted out against each other and only the remaining Paap or Punn are rewarded. In other words, their question was that as an example if someone has 100 Punns and 60 Paaps, then do they pay for 100 minus 60 = 40 Punns or do they get fruits of 100 Punns and 60 Paaps separately.This is a very relevant question for us. Do our Punns delete our Paaps and do our Paaps dampen the fruits of our Punns or are the Paaps and Punns accounted for separately and the Jeev gets fruits of all the Punns and Paaps they commit.Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee in response to their question, informed them that for the purpose of the accountability of Karma, there are 4 kinds of Sikhs:1. Sehkaam Karmi2. Nihkaam Karmi3. Upaashna waale4. GianiThen Guru Sahib asked them, about which kind of Sikhs was their question related to. The Sikhs with folded hands and extreme humility requested Guru Sahib to tell them about all 4 kinds of Sikhs and how Karma affects them differently.Hereon, the summary of Guru Sahib's Updesh, as written by Bhai Mani Singh jee in Sikha dee Bhagatmaala, is presented:In the rule of a king, there are 4 kinds of citizens. The first kind pay taxes based on a certain percentage and no matter what, they have to pay their share. The second kind have a fixed amount they pay as taxes and even if their income is high, still they end up paying little taxes and get to keep most of their wealth. The third kind are close to the king and sometimes present the king with good horses or other gifts and as a result they enjoy tax free income and also get many other perks. The fourth kind are the Maafi citizens who are very close to the king. They go about travelling with the king and instead of paying taxes, they get paid by the state for being close to the king.Same way, Maharaj jee too has 4 kinds of Sikhs:Sehkaam Karmi, the first type of Sikhs are Sikhs in appearance only but all their priorities are Maya related. Any Karma related to Dharma that they do is only to forward their Maya related agenda. Any Paath or Naam Simran they do is only for their selfish needs. On the heads of such people, the stick of Jamdoots (messengers of death) always remains. Their Paaps and Punns are accounted for separately. If they have total of 160 Karma which include 80 Punns and 80 Paaps, they get fruits of all 160 Karams and none of their sins are netted out against their good deeds. Depending on their Karma, they enjoy the fruits of heaven and hell in the next world. Since they are Sikhs, they do get to be born in the homes of rich and prosperous people in their next life and occasionally are given opportunities to earn Gurmat related Karma - Naam Simran and Gurbani Paath.Nihkaam Karmi, the second type of Sikhs, they become Sikhs not out of some greed or vested interest but because they like to be Dharmi (religious). They do good deeds and religious deeds out of pleasure and because such is their natural disposition, as opposed to doing it just for their Maya-related agenda. Even though they have natural tendency to do good deeds, still they do end up committing many sins as well because due to lack of serious Naam Simran and Gurbani Paath, they come under the influence of Maya and 5 Bikaars. Their Paaps and Punns are taken together and evened out and they only pay for their remaining Karma. As an example, if a Nihkaam Karmi Sikh has a total of 160 Karma which include 100 Punns and 60 Paaps, most of their Karma are netted out and they pay the fruits of only 40 Karma. Their sins are netted out against their good deeds and they seldom go to hell as a punishment of their sins. They get to be born in homes of Sant Gursikhs and are given ample opportunities to engage in Naam Simran and Gurbani Paath.Upaashna Waale Sikh: Upaashna waale Sikhs are such Sikhs who have their priority set on Naam and Gurbani Paath only. Their natural disposition is religious and they willingly do only good Karma. They always do Punns and spend time in Naam Abhyaas and Gurbani Paath but still contrary to their natural disposition, they commit some Paaps (sins) as a result of their Prarabadh (destiny) or when they come under the influence of Bikaars. Guru Sahib forgives their Paaps and if such Gursikhs don't reach their spiritual destiny, then they take another Janam and are born in the homes of Sant Gursikhs and eventually get Gyaan and are released from birth and death.Gyani: Gyan Gursikhs who have realized their self as well as Vaheguru, consider this world to be Mithiya (false). They reject the system of Karma and depend solely on Vaheguru jee's Naam. Since they don't associate with Haume, none of their Karma falls under the Karma system. Just as darkness does not go near sun, same way Bikaars and Paaps don't go near Gyani Gursikhs. They are free from Karma. They neither get rewarded for their Punns nor get punished for their mistakes. First of all they don't commit any mistake but if they unwittingly do commit a mistake as per this Gurbani Pankiti: ਜੇ ਬਾਹਰਹੁ ਭੁਲਿ ਚੁਕਿ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਭੀ ਖਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਣੇ ॥, they are not held accountable for it. Then the Gursikhs asked Guru Sahib as to what happens to the Punns that are done by a Gyani and the mistakes they make. Guru Sahib gave the most interesting and revealing answer. Guru Sahib said that since the Gyani rises above the effect of Karma, any Punns that they do during their life here on Earth, are given to the ones who serve them. In other words, the Gursikhs who serve the Gyani Gursikhs, get the rewards of the Punns done by Gyani Gursikhs. On the other hand the ones who slander Gyani Gursikhs, get the fruit of unwitting mistakes committed by the Gyani Gursikhs. Gyani stays Nirlep (aloof) from all effects and fruits of Paaps and Punns.As for the future of these 4 types of Gursikhs, the Sehkaam Karmi Sikhs are born in heavens and other high realms where they enjoy good life and then come back on Earth and are born in the homes of rich and prosperous people. They occasionally get chance to earn Gursikhi and eventually over many life forms, slowly rise to become Jeevan Mukat.The Nihkaam Karmi and Upaashna waale Gursikhs get to go to higher Khands and are reborn here in this world in the homes of Sant Gursikhs. They get many chances of doing Bhagti and they get to meet Sadh Sangat. Eventually they become Gyani Gursikhs and get everlasting blissful life in Sachkhand.Gyani Gursikhs of course get to go to Sachkhand after their exhausting their time here on Earth.The above thoughts are in accordance to Gurmat. In religions like Buddhism and many sects of Hinduism, the system of Karma is all powerful and totally independent. In Gurmat, the system of Karma is there but it is not run automatically (especially for Gursikhs) but Vaheguru jee is actively involved as a witness of the Karams of Jeevs and in giving the fruits of the good and bad Karma of Jeevs and Gursikhs. It seems natural that everyone cannot be given the same fruit of a single Karma.Let's take a worldly example to illustrate the point that all sinner are not treated equally by Vaheguru. If a repeat offender goes to the court of a worldly judge, the judge is likely to give him the maximum sentence possible and on the other hand if a first time offender goes to the same judge for the same offense as the repeat offender, then the judge is likely to go easy on the first time offender. Same way, a Gursikh who is indulged in Naam, Gurbani and Punns for the most part would get much less punishment for a rare sin as opposed to a Sikh of first stage who is still very much engaged in Maya.This Updesh of Guru Sahib should prompt us to strive to become Gyani Gursikhs and at least at the current time be at the level of Upaashna waale Gursikh, who are always eager to do Bhagti by engaging in Naam Abhyaas, Gurbani Kirtan and Paath. Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan. SAKHI ENDS Now, I think we have understood the superiority of having Guru Sahib as your Guru and Vaheguru as your Worshipee. People are born in houses of Sikh Families as a result of their good karams. If a non Sikh worships Vaheguru and keeps Rehat and reads bani with Prem, he will certainly be born in the house of a Sant or Brahmgyani abd get many chances to increase his kamaayi and get liberation. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Bhai sahib, the opinion of this Kalyugi world doesnt matter to Guru Sahib and his Gursikhs and Sharadhavan Sangat. A householder doesn't mean that after work, you come home and have gossips with your wife and teach maths to your children. As a Sikh, one has to have a Gristi Jeevan, do bhagti and do parchaar of Sikhi as well. Guru Sahib was an ideal householder. I would consider those parcharaks an ideal householder as well who don't earn through jobs and business but do parchaar across the world and the panth takes care of their household needs through Daswandh given by sangat. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

I don't think there's any wrong in this. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur also mercilessly killed the Jallaads responsible for Shaheedi of Chhote Sahibzaade, but that was out of Bir Ras, not anger. I have heard stories of Guru Sahib where he would easily do shikaar of ferocious beasts. One such saakhi was told by Giani Jangbir Singh Ji that once some Rajas told Guru Sahib that there's a huge lion in the jungle who doesn't let people travel across cities. Guru Sahib went there and asked the Raaje if there was any soorma in their army who can kill this beast. The answer was no. Guru Sahib tied his kamar kassa and prepared to confront it. Bhai Sango Shah (brother) asked Mama Kirpal Daas (I think this was the name of their Mamaji) to stop guru sahib. When Mama Ji approached guru sahib, he couldn't hold the Lalli and glow on guru sahib's face! He couldn't speak a single word and backed. Then guru sahib showed his jauhar and killed that beast. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji also killed a snake and gave it the power to speak to gursikhs. The snake told them that he was a fake saadhu in his previous life and made people 'Matha tek' to him. As a result he was born as a 'Sarp' and the insects that were waking on his dead body (snake) were his chele (disciples) and those who worshipped him. As per Gurmat, I don't think that a Sikh can't do this. If he is killing an animal to save a human or for a good purpose (not for Jihb Rass) then there's no harm in this. Trimandeep Singh

1. Sant Kartar Singh Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji. Even if there wasn't any brahmgyami householder in modern times, still answer would be yes from Gurbani. According to Bhai Gurdaas Ji, Grihast Jeevan is the highest dharmi jeevan. Read Shabad Hazaare Patshahi 10 to know what guru sahib says about Sanyaas. 2. Even if there are less gurudwaras you can perhaps find sangat which keeps you motivated or arrange Kirtan programs at your residence. If you keep Amrit Vela and Rehat then it will build a kvach around you which will not let maaya take your Kamaayi. 3. In our Ardaas, we pray to Baba Nand Singh Ji or Guru Sahib? A Sikh should offer prayer to Guru sahib only and not any mahapurush. You can ask a mahapurush to do Ardaas FOR you and Guru sahib may listen to it. And for the second question, yes Baba Ji can give you his darshan but it will not happen if you remember him instead of Vaheguru during Gurbani and abhyaas but if you continue practicing Gurbani in your life. If you face a problem, Baba Ji may give you his darshan and Give a solution based on Gurbani.

.

Lol how can a gursikh, even a brahmgyani sant can give naam? If you read Gurbani, only Satguru can bless you with naam. There are so many panktis for us to beg for naam to Guru Sahib. Ever saw any pankti of begging for Naam to a gursikh. Anyways, if you meet any mahapurush then rub their feet and put the dust of their feet on your forehead and do as much as Sewa as you can. Trimandeep Singh

Veerji you will find no answers to this. Brahmgyami ki Gat Brahmgyami Jaanai Only a brahmgyami purush can know of a person is of brahmgyami avastha or not. Obviously a brahmgyani purush will not be on this forum replying to queries of sangat here lol. The only way to meet brahmgyanis is Ardaas to Guru sahib to bless you with sangat of a mahapurush. However, even if you come in contact of a brahmgyami sant, you would never know this because they keep their avastha gupt. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Sant Ji has clearly said only after taking Khande Di Pahaul, one can be mukt. When he mentioned Punjabi Families, he said if you want become a beloved of the Guru AND want to get mukht, then there is no other way. He said that one (not addressing Punjabis) may do countless jaaps of other (hor) mantars and tantars and they may even get the fortune of becoming a human in next life and enjoying pleasures of Brahmlok (heaven in Giaan Khand), but they can't get mukt from Lakh Chaurasi. One has to take Amrit to get mukhti. Also, how can people earn different fruit when they worship the same? You are saying that punjabis can be mukt only by taking Amrit. This implies that they will not get mukht if they worship someone else than waheguru. A Hindu who worships Shiva with love and sacrifice and if another Punjabi worships Shiva with the same amount of love and sacrifice, then both of them will get the same fruit and same amount of affection of Shiv Ji. You can read Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji's Book Gurmat Adhiatam Karam Philosophy to understand Gurmat's perspective on Karam system. Also you can view the debates on this topic in other forums. I am pasting the link. This is my last post because whatever I am saying is explained briefly in the thread. https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,35477 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,34353,34356#msg-34356 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,25480,25481#msg-25481 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,14277 Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Bhai sahib the point is why wouldn't Guru Sahib follow the principles preached by himself. No-one is saying the Guru sahib is 'not allowed' to do xyz because whatever he will do, its the best thing to happen. Guru Sahib gave a code of conduct to Sikhs. And Guru Sahib himself set an example for the Sikhs that how much should one be dedicated to Rehat. Guru sahib is parmeshar himself. Why would he have to fight battles, keep Amrit Vela even during a battle and sacrifice his whole family? All of that was his karamaat to inspire Sikhs and set an example of an ideal jeevan of a Sikh. When Guru Sahib himself doesn't give the right to Sikhs to alter bani or remove or add any bani, then why would he himself not follow it? My point is not bounding Guru sahib to a code of conduct but this act, even thinking of doing this is a Paap which Guru sahib wouldn't do. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Daas is pained to see that in today's modern world, RSS and other anti Sikh organizations have been successfully able to popularize anti gurmat opinions among Khalsa Panth and Guru Nanak Naam Leva Sangat. Multiple times these anti Sikh organizations have been identified as doing fake propaganda in the name of supporting and celebrating Sikhi. On the Gurupurab of Dhan Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji, RSS declared that it will too celebrate the Holy auspicious event. And with no surprise, at the large stage RSS leader openly quoted the Shabad 'Deh Shiva Bar Mohe Ehai' and said Guru Gobind Singh Ji is asking for a boon to Shiva. Not only this but Shiv Sena extremists tried to file a case against Sikh community to bring up a law that Sikhs should be allowed to wear only a 4-6 inch Kirpan. The list is endless. One such opinion that has been popularly spread in the panth is that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had 3 wives. Daas respects Mahakavi Santokh Singh Ji alot and we can't thank him enough to collect the saakhis of unbelievable karamaats of guru sahibaan. However, it must be noted that the Granth also contains some saakhis which attack the Ucha character of Guru Sahib like doing jhatka on Vaisakhi, Mai Bhago stories, Devi Pooja etc. The following has been taken from another forum. The post is of a very knowledgeable Rehitvaan Gursikh Bhai Sahib Kulbir Singh Toronto who along with other gursikhs is doing excellent parchar of Sikhi through GURMAT BIBEK CHANNEL on YouTube. ***POST STARTS*** History collected by Mahakavi Santokh Singh jee in Sooraj Prakash has not been refined by Mahakavi jee. He went from village to village and recorded whatever he heard from senior citizens of that time. He did not try to verify or authenticate what he heard and just wrote whatever he heard. We are grateful to him for not judging what he heard and just writing it. I think his function was not writing history but collecting all information possible from people, including local traditions. The Saakhi of 7 marriages of Siri Guru Har Rai Sahib jee is totally absurd. The only Mehal Guru Sahib had was Mata Kishan Kaur jee. Similarly, the Saakhi of 3 marriages of Siri Guru Hargobind Sahib jee too should be taken with a grain of salt. Not that it makes a difference, even if it was true, because worldly rules don't apply on Guru Sahib but still it is highly unlikely, that Guru Sahib had 3 Mehals. Same is true for Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee. Mata jeeto jee and Mata Sundari jee was probably the same person with Mata Jeeto jee being her name in her parent's home and Mata Sundari jee was the name given by her in-laws. And Mata Sahib Kaur was not a Mehal of Guru Sahib in worldly sense. Guru Sahib knows better. Kulbir Singh ***POST ENDS*** Daas would also like to add something. We shouldn't forget that Guru Sahib were perfect and would never do anything against Gurmat Principles. EK NAARI JATI HOYE is a key principle of a Sikh's Grihast Jeevan. Moreover, Guru Sahib always practiced what he preached, not like today's modern day Sikh parcharaks. ਔਰਨਕਹਾਉਪਦੇਸਤਹੈਪਸੁਤੋਹਿਪ੍ਰਬੋਧਨਲਾਗੋ॥ O Animal! why do you preach to others, when you are quite ignorant on what you are preaching? Guru Sahib would always practice what he preached. He was a true Sant Sipahi and set an example that what a Sikh can do if he follows Rehat and reads bani and japs naam. May Guru Sahib bless us all with Bibek Budhi and Prem for Bani Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Sachkhand Waasi Sant Giani Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwaale too has to say only Amritdharis, today have to say only 'True Amritdharis' can be liberated. This leaves no doubt in my mind for sure. Two brahmgyanis can't be wrong. The opinion of a Rehitvaan Naam Rasiya Gurmukhs is also enough for me to believe this. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Still Bhai sahib! If he removed a pauri from Sri Japji Sahib, then Japji Sahib which we read is incomplete! Guru sahib would never do this injustice to us! Guru Granth Sahib Ji also has current version of Japji Sahib only. If the current one is not the original Japji Sahib then we are also indirectly saying that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is incomplete which is not possible. Trimandeep Singh

Bhai sahib I am not saying that Guru sahib can't alter bani. Altering bani of gurus is a great sin and saying that guru sahib himself did this is also alleging him of doing a paap. But Guru sahib is perfect. And Guru would never alter bani. This is because bani is also perfect like our guru. Bani Guru Guru Hai Baani Waho Waho Baani Nirankaar Hai! Altering bani means it was not perfect before. But bani is perfect. Also, one thing to be noted is that Guru sahib immediately sung the bani as he received it from Sachkhand. Jaisi Main Aave Khasam Ki Bani Taisra Kari Gian Ve Laalo Guru sahib sung bani as he directly received from Sachkhand. So, there's no chance that there was a need to alter bani because it was already perfect. When Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji excommunicated Baba Ram Rai from Panth for changing the word 'Musalmaan' to 'Beyimaan' then he didn't want us to learn that a Sikh can't alter bani but he wanted to show us that bani is perfect and without any flaw and hence can't be altered according to situation one faces. When someone can be kicked out for alterating just a word then why would Dashmesh Pita do this? He is kartaar and can do whatever he wants. But altering bani is a sin which guru sahib would never do. Probably, there is some RSS agenda if people who have gone to such an extent that Guru Har Rai Sahib had 8 wives and Dashmesh Pita had 3. Blasphemous! Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Okay Bhai sahib Ji, I'll give my opinion on your 'what if a non Sikh worships Vaheguru Ji' statement once I get permission from @hsingh6 and @GurbarAkaal because I think they didn't like this. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh