Trimandeep Singh

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa 

Vaheguru Ji ki Fateh!

Sangat Ji, I just came across a video on YouTube in which a renowned Sikh Preacher had his beard tied. (will keep his name gupt only)

I was shocked to see that since I have never seen or heard about any of the puratan Chardikala gursikhs who tied their beards. Personally, I would never tie my beard.

If men do that for fashion purposes, then obviously that's wrong. But what if someone ties his beard for any other reasons?

Is it wrong according to Gurmat? I heard about this only once while listening to Bhai Manvir Singh Ji's (UK) lecture.

Any vichar would be really helpful.

Dhanvaad 

Trimandeep Singh 

On 7/26/2021 at 9:28 PM, paapiman said:

@Trimandeep Singh

Below is an extract from Gurbani Path Darpan (written by Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale):

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I think he has just given a side note. He hasn't given his opinions on this.

On 7/26/2021 at 5:30 PM, paapiman said:

Clearing all doubts from one's mind it instills peace.

[Sukha] removes all doubts from one's mind, fosters contentment in one's heart and brings great happiness. Make Sukha to destroy all pains from ones heart, by adding black pepper the Khalsa consumes [Sukha].

Seems more as if the author wants to give us an alternative to the Nitnem banis we read everyday.

On 7/19/2021 at 5:56 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Different Shaheeds used different Pangtis and maintained their equipose while Akal demonstrated supernatural feats. For some it was Japji, others just the Gurmantar. But what they all had in common was a lot, a lot, of recititation, a lot of repetition, amazing amounts of focus and Prem Bhagti. 

Everybody learns differently and internalizes information and grows differently.  Anyone who embraces Naam will taste it's perfection and the perfection of all its' fruits. 

Incredible explanation Bhai sahib!

Trimandeep Singh 

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Why? Please answer the question. If a non-Sikh saves the life of your loved one, will you be extremely grateful to him/her or not?

Will surely be extremely grateful. But I think Vaheguru just took a Sewa from them and gave them a chance to cut their bad karams. When it comes to communicating with Vaheguru, we don't need anyone to do that for us because Guru sahib has already given us a way.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

IMHO, Devi Devte can communicate with Sri Waheguru jee. 

But not like a messenger, doing work like this (communicating messages of people to him) 

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

How are we insulting Guru saab?

We are insulting guru sahib because we are using our own Manmat ways to talk with Vaheguru Ji when he has already given us a way to communicate with him. We are not cherishing his gift.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Doing an Ardas, in order to help someone is similar to obtaining a Sidhi of a Gurbani Shabad and then helping someone.

Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale would even take an Hukamnama, before doing an Ardas for someone. So similarly, if you have a Gurbani Mantar Sidhi, you can ask for permission from Sri Waheguru jee, before using it to help someone.

I don't think it is similar to doing sidhi of a mantar. My point was not to stick to a specific shabad to obtain specific powers. Doing sidhi to fight vikaars or for health purposes is fine but shouldn't be the case with obtaining powers. I don't think any gurmukh mahapurush did paath to obtain ridhi sidhis, they did paath just to have darshan and that SHOULD be the case with all of us. Else everything will be taken care of by Guru sahib.

But that hukamnaama point does make sense.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Well, he can probably cause distractions or problems in the enemy (who are against Humanity/Khalsa Panth) camp. You cannot deny that.

Give me one evidence when Khalsa Fauj tried to take help of Devi devte to fight battles. I would again say,it will be an insult to Vaheguru. We already have Dasam bani and mool mantar with us which are much stronger than the devi devte. We don't need their help when we have bani.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Sidhi of a Gurbani Mantar/Shabad does not always refer to Ridhis and Sidhis bro.

Yes but I didn't talk about that. I always meant the sidhis which refer to materialistic things.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

During the Jhatka process, the energy of the animal can be possibly transferred to heal a sick/ill human being.

Seems weird to hear but do paste the link of the Katha.

Dhanvaad

Trimandeep Singh 

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Please read the English definition of a Ritual

I was saying that in light of Gurbani. In terms of word ritual used, it's implied meaning is often, if not always, empty rituals and symbolisms.

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Those favors can be big too. For example, imagine a non-Sikh saving your loved ones from death. That is a huge favor.

Leave that. Still my point is that when Devi devte themselves don't have any access to Vaheguru, then how can they help us communicate with him? We are insulting guru sahib who gave us bani to have darshan of Vaheguru any time we want.

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

What is wrong in doing Paath to obtain Ridhis Sidhis, in order to help people? The intention matters.

One shouldn't ask for ridhi sidhis. Even if you want to help people, just do an ardaas and we all know that Vaheguru always keeps the laaj of his gursikhs. 

When people say that this sant did a miracle or something, then we should correct them and tell that it is Vaheguru who is keeping the laaj of his gursikhs. The sants never use the Ridhi sidhis they obtain, unless to fulfill any hukam of guru sahib.

Gurbani clearly states that one should not focus on ridhi sidhis nor use them for selfish purposes because they keep you away from path of Vaheguru.

Trimandeep Singh 

On 7/11/2021 at 5:07 PM, paapiman said:

Even Amrit Sanchars, Akhand Paaths, Sehaj Paaths, etc, are religious rituals.

Do you even know what you said? Amrit Sanchaars, Akhand Paaths and Sehaj Paaths are always for a purpose and above the Sato Gun. All these rituals like havan (acc to me) and all are within the three gunns. Sikh Maryada has been passed by the Gurus and can't be called mere rituals. (Don't want to talk about Havan, but overall all practices started by gurus are above three gunns)

On 7/11/2021 at 5:09 PM, paapiman said:

He might desire the Paras Kala of Gurbani.

 

Is he lazy that he can't do Paath and do praises of Vaheguru? If someone does Paath for us, then it will surely benefit but isn't it wrong that he expects us to do Paath for him?! Moreover, you are contradicting your own point. You said earlier that we need to do havan so that Agni Devta communicates our message to Vaheguru Ji.

On 7/11/2021 at 5:13 PM, paapiman said:

Correct me, if I am wrong, so you are saying that we can take help from people, including non-Sikhs, but we cannot ask for help from Devi/Devte?

Please remember that Worship of Devi/Devte is forbidden in Sikhism.

But what help are you asking them for? Though the panth is always there for us to help, but under any circumstances we can ask non Sikhs for help, but those are small favours, not 'communicating our message to Vaheguru'. 

And when did I write anything that supports worship of Devi devte?

They may help us but you are asking us to do havan, read Paath and ask the Devte to communicate our message to Vaheguru which is an insult to Guru sahib who gave us bani to have darshan of him anytime.

On 7/11/2021 at 5:16 PM, paapiman said:

That "everyone else" includes Devi/Devte. They are also an creation of Sri Waheguru jee. Sri Waheguru jee resides in them and we must respect them.

They are a creation of Vaheguru, exactly my point! They themselves don't have direct access to Vaheguru then how can they even communicate our message to him? They are not mukt and they long for this human body, as bani clearly states. We are at a better position from them to get mukt and have darshan of Vaheguru.

Do you know even Devi Lakshmi sweeps the floor at Sri Darbar Sahib? And yes, if we ever get a chance to serve the devte, then surely we will serve them some roti, yellow dal and my fav kheer... And also polish their sandals or footwear, whatever they wear... Lol

On 7/11/2021 at 5:21 PM, paapiman said:

One needs a certain level of avastha to talk to Sri Waheguru jee directly.

Let me ask you a question. In this Granth (Sri Mukat Marag), it talks about doing Sava Lakh (or other big numbers) Jaaps of different shabads. Do you seriously think that a Gurmukh Brahamgyani like Bhai saab Bhai Randhir Singh jee or Sant Baba Nand Singh jee would need to do that much Jaap to obtain the Sidhi of those Shabads?

I think that avastha does play a role but it also depends on your faith. I have no avastha but I am 100% sure that if I ask something (in line with Gurmat) to Vaheguru Ji with good intentions and true heart, I will surely get it. Ardaas is also a form of communication with Vaheguru, in fact, DIRECT communication with him.

And about those sava Lakh japs, I think your Prahlabdh karams also play a role in this. There have been people who experienced Jot vigasi avastha even before taking Amrit! So, it doesn't necessarily depend on your current avastha, but your karams too. 

Brahmgyanis like Baba Nand Singh Ji or Bhai Saab would never do japs to obtain any Ridhi sidhi. Sikhs always yearn for the darshan of Vaheguru rather than doing specific japs to obtain a Ridhi sidhi. They are just a by product of one's bhagti and a Sikh should NEVER do Paath to obtain specific ridhis sidhis.

On 7/11/2021 at 6:53 PM, paapiman said:

They are suppose to follow a very tough lifestyle and routine. Therefore, it is possible that Maharaaj gave them permission to eat Jhatka meat (of goats) and drink Sukha.

I am not saying that Sukha and jhatka are wrong, but if they were, Guru sahib would still have never allowed them to consume it, even if they follow the toughest lifestyle. Wrong is wrong and can't be justified if you do more Paath, but it may be neglected if you are sorry for it. 

On 7/11/2021 at 6:53 PM, paapiman said:

It is also possible that Shastars will become thirsty for blood and flesh, if plenty of Sri Dasam Gurbanis are recited near them.

I thought Dasam bani satisfied the hunger of shastars rather than making them hungrier. But I may be wrong, please try to find a pankti related to this.

14 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

In Sant Jarnail Singh Ji's katha he compares Banda Singh to the Nirankari Guru.

Most probably, he would have said that like the Nirankari, Baba Banda Singh Ji too did some deeds like this but this doesn't mean that he remained like that till his last breath. And I request you to give him some respect, please! 

1. He was chosen by Dashmesh Pita to lead the panth.

2. After Khalsa Raj came, he didn't become a political leader or a king but went to the hills to do bhagti. He had absolutely no attachments.

3. If Baba ji would have done something like that, how can he give a shahaadat like that? You do know that his son's heart was put into his mouth. This torture was out of this world. If he was a patit/tankhaiya, how can he give a Mahaan shahaadat like this?!

Stop falling to social media propaganda.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

4 hours ago, AkalKiFauj said:

This a different Nand Singh to the Nanaksar wale Mahapurkh. This Nand Singh was a part of the Panj Mukte (first people to be blessed with amrit after the Panj Pyare).

Yeah I was also thinking this. But still I wouldn't have been surprised if it was Nanaksar waale Mahapurakh only.

15 hours ago, paapiman said:

A Dumalla can also come off. A tight Patka (for guys) will also not come off easily off the head.

Keski is an optional Rehat. It is good to keep one

I bet a Nihang Singh's dumalla can't come off. They are the most tyar-bar-tyar of all. 

Also, patka should be discouraged because it was not given to us by Guru sahib and it leads to beadbi of kes. I have myself experienced this. When you try a knot behind, the hairs come in between the strips (taniyaan whatever you say lol) and when you remove your patka, the hairs are too removed. Daas tied a patka till 15 years but then with guru sahib's kirpa, switched to a Keski and a dumalla.

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

No Jathebandi should try to force their Rehat on the entire Panth. There was a video by the Gurmat Bibek team, where the Singh listed Keski as a Kakkar. IMHO, that was not a wise thing to do. He could have said that Kesh or Keski is a Kakkar. That would have been better, as they are doing Prachar on an online platform (which is accessible to all Public).

I completely agree with you. But AKJ doesn't enforce this on the entire Panth. They mention Keski a kakaar only in their Amrit Sanchaar Smaagams.

Most of the AKJ singhs have no problem if someone considers Kesh as kakaar because they believe that still, Keski is mandatory for a Sikh so if they are still wearing a keski all the time, then there's no violation of Rehat.

Surely Gurmat Bibek should also have explained the Sangat that Kesh is considered a kakaar by majority of Panth and then they should have stated their point of view that why they consider Keski and not Kes as a kakaar.

And FYI, I have seen some videos of Nihangs talking about the keski Rehat. They say that even though Kesh is a kakaar but still a Khalsa should always tie a dumalla on a Keski. For them, Keski is mandatory and same is the case with Taksal.

Now I don't know that according to you, it will be a recommendation or an enforcement but yes, if you follow them, then you should always support a Keski and not modern day patka.

Trimandeep Singh 

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Based on your thinking, one might also argue that a Sikh must never ask for help from non-Sikhs. Do you believe in that?

Offerings are also made to poor/needy people man. Does that make those needy/poor people are higher than the donors?

The Granth is not advocating the worship of the Agni Devta.

What are you saying Bhai sahib? 

You were saying Havan includes offering to Agni Devta who already is a devta and has all the luxuries. Why does he need our offering? 

And you are just using the word 'offer' in a sentence to prove your point.

Gurbani always teaches us to help the needy and donating something or taking help from anyone doesn't increase or decrease our level/status, Vaheguru himself puts a furna in our minds to donate to a needy or whatsoever.

True Sikhs, they donate or take, will always think of themselves as charan dhoor of everyone else.

Yes, the Granth is not at all advocating worship of Agni Devta but my point is why do we even need to offer him to communicate our 'message' to Vaheguru when Vaheguru is always with us. 

Will you talk to Agni Devta or the sargun roop of Akaal Purakh himself (Sri Guru Granth Sahib)?

Trimandeep Singh 

15 hours ago, paapiman said:

Daas asked you a question. If you don't know the answer, just say that you don't know.

Further, we are not talking about one particular individual. We are talking about a Jathebandi, which probably claims to follow the Full Rehat.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I don't need to hide my inability to answer that question. Puratan AKJ singhs probably follow this but not Singhs abroad.  

Also, I had cleared this point before.

Taksaal too claims of having the most authentic Rehat sources and same is with the Nihangs, yet they have minor disputes. 

You are going so much into differences which either creates a negative impression of yours or the jathebandi. 

You should have a problem with AKJ if they don't respect the opinions of other jathebandis and label them as qurehtia. They practice their Rehat (which is accepted in the Panth) within their own smagams and for your information, other jathebandis have been involved in this stuff of defaming other jathebandis.

Few years back, the Jagowale were spreading a serious anti-AKJ propaganda on Social media when they did bhog of a Samagam at Mundawni despite knowing that it is optional to do bhog at Ragmaala. So who's doing all this stuff? 

I am not at all anti-Jagowaala but your opinions on other jathebandis are surely not cooperative. 

Some practices of the Nihangs are not followed by Taksaal because they think it is Manmat but they keep it within their own jatha and refrain from touching these topics to maintain their pyaar and satkaar for other sampradas. All these differences in Rehat and interpretations is a khed of Vaheguru and only he knows how this will benefit the Panth.

We all should have this attitude of Taksaal than trying our best to find faults in someone else's Rehat.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

On 7/8/2021 at 12:32 PM, paapiman said:

Do AKJ Singhs follow the below Rehat strictly?

It's useless for both of us to talk about someone else's Rehat.

And I am repeating this again a person should sincerely strive to follow all Rehat if not able to follow a hukam due to forced circumstances. This includes ardaas, doing sangat and doing more Paath to gain strength.

Trimandeep Singh 

On 7/8/2021 at 5:45 PM, dalsingh101 said:

Veer ji, I've been casually going through some older rahits lately (because of this thread) and I don't think it is possible to follow them all like suggested in the OP

You are saying that in a way that they are difficult (like Dietary Bibek) or are contradictory? 

2 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Fateh Darshan?

Yess

On 7/8/2021 at 12:22 PM, paapiman said:

Can you please provide examples?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Brahmgyani Baba Banda Singh Bahadur changed the Fateh but was later punished my sangat. This is what I have heard. Not going into details. 

Trimandeep Singh 

On 7/8/2021 at 12:13 PM, paapiman said:

Wasn't it clear from the topic below that it is almost impossible to follow all the Rehats? 

In that 'All rehats', if you include disputed rehats of jathebandis like Sukha, Jhatka etc (not at all speaking against them) then obviously no because you can't expect every scholar or panthic aggoos and gurmukhs to agree on that. (It's a play of Maya)

Also, Sukha and Jhatka are NOT a Rehat. Rehat is a code of conduct. You may call it a Maryada or tradition. There's no HUKAM of guru sahib to do jhatka. One may do it and one may not. Noone is violating hukam of guru sahib if he/she doesn't do jhatka unless one goes out of the way criticizing Nihangs every possible way they can. 

One should try to follow all rehats which the Panth collectively agrees on.

On 7/8/2021 at 12:15 PM, paapiman said:

One can keep his/her head covered without a Keski too.

By a chunni or a cloth?? It can easily be removed by some dusht but a tight dumalla can't which makes Khalsa tyar-bar-tyar. And why not keep guru sahib's gift with you all the time? 

On 7/8/2021 at 12:19 PM, paapiman said:

Similarly, it is possible that some Nihang Singhs might claim that how can you expect to be called a Tyar-Bar-Tyar Sikh, if you don't know how to do Shikaar of wild animals or do Jhakta of goats?

There are countless shaheeds who were Tyar-Bar-Tyar and didn't eat any type of meat. Just to name popular ones, Sant Ji and Bhai Fauja Singh Ji. Both did shikaar of Fake Nirankaris.

Trimandeep Singh 

On 6/28/2021 at 12:43 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

A reminder to those outside and inside the Paanth both

 

In 1975, a Hindu man came to Bhai Fauja Singh desperately begging for help. His wife had been picked up by the police and they were gang raping her. Bhai Fauja Singh went to the police station, freed the woman and punished the police officers. He was sent to jail for his actions.

 

Throughout his time as a leader in the Dharm Yudh Morcha, Baba Jarnail Singh ensured that those who attacked and assaulted women were dealt with severely, and that any woman who was being assaulted were freed. 

Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Pyare!

On 7/5/2021 at 8:52 AM, Arsh1469 said:

I have heard lots of people on this form say this is true because this mahpurkh said so but lots of times different mahapurukhs from different Sampardamas contradict each other. I personally believe all mahapurukhs are human and are not always correct. Also how do we know someone is a mahapurukh?

Edit: Not trying to say mahapurukhs are bad.

In the past, some Mahapurakhs have done some mistakes but they were very minor and nothing compared to their abhiyaas and spiritual level so it gets neglected by Guru sahib.

Trimandeep Singh