Trimandeep Singh

22 hours ago, paapiman said:

Thanks for the image.

Do you have proof from any other Gurmukh Brahamgyani (preferably the ones associated with Puratan Sampradas), which support the above point?

Thanks a lot

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Can only find Katha of Mahapurakhs related to Kirtam Naam and Satnaam. Though this topic is not much discussed in Kathas and Lectures.

Trimandeep Singh

Here are pictures of chapter "Spiritual Earnings of Abhiyaasis of SatNaam and Kirtam Naam" from the Book, 'Naam Te Naam Da Daata Satguru' by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji.

@paapimanji you can read his vichar because he has supported his vichar with the help of Gurbani panktis. You can have look at them.

Trimandeep Singh 

27 minutes ago, Kaur1510 said:

I do think what if I got cancer and lose my hair during chemo,  would that be good? What if I were involved in a car accident and got my face deformed as a result? What if I would have a major family problem and so on...

Family opinions don't matter because if they are your boss, then Vaheguru is the Founder. (in the context of a business company) Do ardaas to Guru Sahib to give Bibek Budhi to family members who are unintentionally acting as a hindrance in your spiritual journey.

Car accidents and cancer are a concern. Mostly, I have heard that gursikhs don't think it is bad to get hair cut when it comes to your life. But there have also been cases when Sikhs didn't cut their hairs even when it meant losing their lives.

Endless examples from puraatan times and during evil period of Mughal Raj.

A modern example- Sant Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa mukhi of Damdami Taksaal. He was severely injured in a car accident. The doctors said he could be saved if he would allow shaving hairs on his chest to proceed for a surgery. He didn't allow this and happily accepted death and went for Sachkhand.

Another modern example of a Sikh Freedom Fighter during British Rule in India. When Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji met Bhagat Singh, he mentioned the name of a Sikh Freedom Fighter who refused to dye his beard or cut it when the Britishers put a large amount on his head. 

Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Pyaare! 

Trimandeep Singh 

Just now, paapiman said:

If Vedic Mantars (which are less powerful than Gurbani Mantars) can have an effect on Fire, then Gurbani will definitely have an effect on Fire.

A human is saying this. This doesn't mean that it is true. It may be, but we haven't found any panktis which say that Gurbani will have effect on fire (not talking about Yagya, havan. I think the fire related panktis can help us in interpreting the panktis related to havan/yagya). I am not saying that Gurbani has limited paras Kala but I am questioning the way the effect on fire transfers to us (like in case of water, we drink that water) 

Trimandeep Singh 

9 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Let's stay on the topic here

Okay 

2 minutes ago, paapiman said:

To that, Daas had already replied.

Quote

So similarly, Sri Satguru jee (First Master) can give darshan to non-Sikh Bhagats in this age too and grant them a place in Sachkhand.

How hard is that to understand?

Unquote

 

So, therefore we must try to end this debate asap rather than going around in circles.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Satguru Ji giving darshan doesn't mean granting a place in Sachkhand. Satguru Ji gives amrit and naam and it is upto the person if he devotes his life to bhagti or not. If one does do prema bhagti, one may get Mukti (place in Sachkhand).

Trimandeep Singh 

9 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Daas understand your point bro.

Sikhs must never do Ninda of anyone, which includes other Jathebandis, Religions, Devi, Devte, Nabi, etc.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

True.

5 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Symbolism is very important at times, so that we can learn from it. If a person is not leaning from it, then the fault lies with the person, not with the Ritual.

Worshipping idols, bowing towards a specific direction, bowing in front of Qabars (coffins), Rakhi (rakhri), are all symbolism which are rejected by Sikhism even though we can learn from them. 

From Idol worship, we should worship Vaheguru. From Bowing in front of Qabars, we should respect Sants and mahapurush. From Rakhi, we should protect anyone in need.

Trimandeep Singh 

7 minutes ago, paapiman said:

So then according to you. no one went to Sachkhand in the previous yugs? Is that right?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

When you asked me this question previously, this was my reply.

*******

I never said that people from previous three yugs weren't liberated. Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave them their darshan.

Eg: Bhagat Dhroo Ji. After immense meditation on KIRTAM NAAM, he still couldn't get darshan of Vaheguru. Finally he decided that he wouldn't eat anything until he received darshan. Seeing his thirst and devotion, Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave him his darshan and gave him Amrit.

**********

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

5 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Which Rehatnama is that bro?

Probably, Bhai Desa Singh Rehatnama.

5 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Like some people might say that placing a coconut, during Akhand Paath is Karam Kaand, which makes no sense, as the coconut represent one's ego. Even Nihangs do Jhatka of Coconut, to symbolize that a person should try to destroy his ego by Gyan Kharag (Gurbani).

I don't think it is gurmat to do 'jhatka' of coconut. It maybe different from what the Hindus do. But these symbolizms have no place in gurmat. One may break coconuts and still have ego within. It's best to just do Gurbani Paath and naam jap. Why to remind oneself to destoy ego by breaking a coconut than to listen to Katha, Kirtan or simply do Paath? 

Gurbani is full of motivational panktis. Just pick one.

Trimandeep Singh 

12 minutes ago, paapiman said:

You are right (for the first point) bro, but Daas never said that Sarabloh is an AKJ invention. Sarabloh Bibek was practiced by Nihangs, before AKJ came into existence.

Daas was asking, if AKJ believes that Paras Kala of Gurbani affects Sarabloh or not.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Yes, it does effect. 

Also, please don't think I am a blind follower of AKJ. But I do oppose anyone who slanders AKJ or gursikhs of jatha because of different beliefs and rejects their opinions. (which I know you don't do) 

Trimandeep Singh 

16 hours ago, GurbarAkaal said:

Today is one of those days where I feel so happy but unsure why.

Dearest God,

I don’t understand anything.

I’m always asking you for more and you never stop giving.

I forever look at the single thing I don’t have not realising the countless blessings you gave.

I will never know how lucky I am. 

I just want to say thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much God.

To the random person reading who I will never meet, I truly hope you find happiness in this lifetime.

Thinking about what Guru sahib has  blessed us with helps in keeping one's Haumai at check and helps in progressing spiritually.

This is said by many gursikhs.

Guru Sahib kirpa karan 

Trimandeep Singh 

On 6/1/2021 at 10:21 PM, akali dilsidak singh said:

naale parikarama krna matha tekna also comes in karam kaand and there is another kaand known as upasna kaand

Found a Hukam in Rehatnamey related to Parikarma. If you have studied in Taksaal, then who told you not do parikarma? I have heard Kathavachaks of Taksaal preaching in favour of Parikarma.

ਹੈ ਅਨੰਦਪੁਰ ਪਰਮ ਸੁਹਾਵਨ ॥

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਸ਼ੁਭ ਸਭ ਮਨ ਭਾਵਨ ॥

ਹਰਿਮੰਦਰ ਪਟਨੈ ਮੈਂ ਜੋਈ ॥

ਦੱਖਣਿ ਅਬਚਲ ਨਗਰ ਸੋ ਹੋਈ ॥੧੭॥

ਤਹਾ ਜਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਕਰਮਾ ਕਰੈ ॥

ਯਥਾਸ਼ਕਤਿ ਕੁਛ ਭੇਟਾ ਧਰੈ ॥੧੮॥

Trimandeep Singh 

16 hours ago, Kaur1510 said:

Yes, I am non-Amritdhari Sikh.

I started doing mool mantar in shower too, but couldn't do jaap while shaving. 

It was guilty feeling. 

Bhenji, I would say don't feel discouraged. Even this guilty feeling is the kirpa of guru sahib!

Many amritdharis engage in Manmati kalyugi things and instead of accepting their mistakes, blame other gursikhs who sincerely follow the hukams of guru sahib.

Try to read saakhis of Soorbir Sikh Bibiyaan who smacked the faces of those evil Mughals who underestimated the power of women. Or you can do jaap of kes related hukams from Rehatnamey.

Edit: Here are some panktis from Bhai Desa Singh Ji's Rehatnama

ਕੇਸਨ ਧੂਪ ਦੇਇ ਸੁਚ ਪਾਵਨ ॥
Dry your hair in the sun, keep them clean and pure;

ਹੈ ਇਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਮੋਹਰ ਸੁਹਾਵਨ ॥੬੯॥
For this is the beautiful seal of the Guru.

ਤਨ ਇਸ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਜ ਦੀਨੋ ॥ 
Upon the head this body hair was given; 

ਸੋ ਇਹ ਤਨ ਸਿੰਗਾਰਹਿ ਕੀਨੋ ॥੭੯॥
Which was an adornment on his body.

ਦਾੜ੍ਹਾ ਮੁਛ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਨਾਈ ॥
The beard, mustache, and hair upon the head was fashioned ; upon him;

ਹੈ ਇਹ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ੍ਹ ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਰਜ਼ਾਈ ॥ 
This was firmly will of God.

ਮੇਟ ਰਜ਼ਾਇ ਜੁ ਸੀਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਵੈ ॥ 
One who erases this will by shaving his head;

ਕਹੁ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਕੈਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੮੦॥ 
Tell me, how will he find God in this world?

ਪਾਂਖਹੁ ਬਿਨ ਬਿਹੰਗ ਜਿਮ ਹੋਹੀ ॥

Like a bird without its wings,

ਊਰਬ ਬਿਨਾ ਭੇਡ ਜਿਮ ਕੋਈ ॥
Like a sheep without it's wool;

ਬਸਨ ਬਿਨਾਂ ਨਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਜੈਸੇ ॥ 
Like a woman without her clothes;

ਕੇਸਨ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਇ ਨਰ ਤੈਸੇ ॥੮੧॥ 
Such is a man without his Kes.

ਕੇਸਨ ਨਰ ਧਾਰੇ ਹੈ ਜਬਹੀ ॥ 
When man retains his Kes;

ਪੂਰਨ ਰੂਪ ਹੋਇ ਹੈ ਤਬਹੀ ॥ 
Only then he is in his complete and perfect form.

ਕੇਸ ਏਕ ਪੁਨ ਰਹਤ ਜੁ ਪਾਈ ॥ 
The Kes is one virtuous Rehit to have.

ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੮੨॥
It's entire glory cannot be described.

ਬੇਦ ਰਹਤ ਜਿਮ ਦਿਜ ਨ ਸੁਹਾਵਤ ॥
As Without the Vedas the dij (twice-born) is not exalted; 

ਸੀਲ ਰਹਤ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਭਾਵਤ ॥
As without gentleness a woman is disliked by her children;

ਬੇਗ ਰਹਤ ਜਿਮ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਹੀਨ ॥
As without swiftness a horse is useless;

ਰਹਤ ਬਿਨਾ ਇਹ ਕੇਸ ਮਲੀਨ ॥੮੩॥
In the same way, the Kes are defiled without the Rehit.
 

Trimandeep Singh 

17 hours ago, paapiman said:

Don't the AKJ believe that the Paras Kala of Gurbani has an effect on Sarabloh?

As you already know that some Singhs associated with AKJ, are Sarablohi.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

This paras Kala on sarbloh is not any invention of AKJ or Nihangs but of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

There are many benefits of Sarbloh and I have heard that the energy multiplies when bani is read near water or food in sarbloh baata.

I think that Sarbloh is a special metal. Since it is also mentioned in Sri Akal Ustat.

Trimandeep Singh 

On 6/5/2021 at 8:01 PM, paapiman said:

Daas is not completely sure about it, but, IMHO, Naam Daan could possibly refer to implanting a Mantar by a GURU (OR PANJ PYARE) into the subconscious mind of a spiritual seeker.

Now, it depends on the Mantar, on how far will that particular seeker go in spirituality.

For example, RAAM* Mantar is very powerful (as it is CLEARLY evident from Gurbani). So, therefore, a seeker who does Simran of it (WITHOUT any desires in mind), with utmost love, devotion, concentration, etc, can possibly reach Sachkhand.

* - The seeker has to think of RAAM as the ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR, which resides in ALL humans.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Bhai sahib, from the knowledge I have received by reading books of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, I would say that 'RAM' is a very powerful mantar but cannot take you to Sachkhand.

Only Vaheguru Mantar can take you to Sachkhand. This is because these names are relevant until the creation is not destroyed.

Eg: Ram means one pervading everywhere or omnipresent. When this whole creation (all worlds and universes) will be destroyed someday by Vaheguru Ji, then this 'everywhere' will NOT exist. So 'pervading everywhere' becomes irrelevant. When there no 'everywhere' then who can pervade 'everywhere'.

Another Eg: Gopal means one who sustains this earth/land. When this land will not exist (and all other lands) then 'sustainer of lands' will become irrelevant. There can be no sustainer of land when there is no land.

These mantars are irrelevant when,

ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ॥
Ashtapadee:

ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
When this world had not yet appeared in any form,

ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥
who then committed sins and performed good deeds?

ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥
When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi,

ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥
then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?

ਜਬ ਇਸ ਕਾ ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਪਤ ॥
When there was no color or shape to be seen,

ਤਬ ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਬਿਆਪਤ ॥
then who experienced joy and sorrow?

ਜਬ ਆਪਨ ਆਪ ਆਪਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥
When the Supreme Lord Himself was Himself All-in-all,

ਤਬ ਮੋਹ ਕਹਾ ਕਿਸੁ ਹੋਵਤ ਭਰਮ ॥
then where was emotional attachment, and who had doubts?

ਆਪਨ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤੀਜਾ ॥
He Himself has staged His own drama;

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧॥
O Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1||

**************

Daas will try to post a picture and translation of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji's vichar on 'Satnaam and Kirtam Naam'.

Trimandeep Singh 

19 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Nice. Lemme play. Let's see..

1. Which human? Ultimately yes, but generally no. 

2. Various locs depending on type of Mukte. 

3. Akal chooses who gets Mukti. Sometimes an animal is given it. For most of us it will require Naam in a Manmukhi Jeev. 

4. A Devte can only help you be like themself. 

5. All Brahmgyanis use some form of Naam. We are blessed with Sat Naam. 

6. No.

7. Very few were liberated, many were suffering. He was always going to come in Kalyug. 

8. Both, but I think it helps a great deal to have experience and guidance in method most definitely. 

9. Only Guru Nank Dev Ji as we know him. He has many close creations who do similar work.

It'll be really cool to see what the initial consensus is and focus on the remaining things like you said Hanji. 

Nice Bhai sahib. I think we have similar vichar and understanding of Gurbani.

Trimandeep Singh 

@paapiman I will just ask you these questions which can help in further debate and move from one sub topic to another in a systematic way. You can also ask.

Q1. Do you agree purpose of human life is to do bhagti and get Mukti? 

Q2. Those who get mukti will only land up in Sachkhand right? 

Q3. Without Naam, can anyone get Mukti? 

Q4. If a non Sikh worships Hindu Devi Devte like Shiv Ji, Krishna Ji, Durga Ji etc, then can he get Mukti? 

Q5. Can anyone become Brahmgyani without getting naam? 

Q6. According to you, are Hindu Devi Devte in Sachkhand? 

Q7. If people were already being liberated before coming Of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, then why did he come on earth? 

Q8. What to do you think naam daan is? Is it simply telling someone to recite a mantar or instilling naam within someone through a method? 

Q9. Is there only one Satguru which is Guru Nanak Dev Ji according to Gurbani? Or in Gurbani, Brahmgyanis have also been referred to as Satguru?

Do answer these and ask me also if you want to which can help us in debating. 

Dhanvaad 

Trimandeep Singh