ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ

Premi's comments also bring up a larger point than whether it is pointless me writing Panjabi for a Fantasy readership...surely than why bother teaching Panjabi outside of India / Pakistan, why waste time making kids learn it in Gurdwarsa, Masjids and Mandars if no one in west will practically use it to read and write? Doesn't it mean GCSE / A Level Panjabi learning and teaching is pointless ( and the equivalents in Canada and Australia?)

ok, Sadly that means I went about doing things the wrong way, as in essence I should only have written In Panjabi if I was qualified with either GCSE / A Level Panjabi ( as far as grammar is concerned) or done a Panjabi Medium course. Of course there are hundreds of successful unpaar panjabi writers ( we have similar situation in English as an artistic person doesn't need a degree) but their advantage over me is it's their daily language in Panjab. My problem is that if I am targeting people who think like me and use Panjabi like me, then as you have proved, I have no reader as all they will use for is sign reading in India or maybe reading SGGS. The ones who can read it as you have already pointed out are in India but they don't get my Panjabi. SO I feel this proves I have been wrong trying to write for them and actually don't have readers. I do not know about other Indian languages in the context you have mentioned

My Panjabi sentences are considered to be weird and erroneous re spellings and comprehensive grammar by natives. However based on what I think Dalsingh101 said a few months or years back they made sense to his western panjabi mind. I had these stories proof read, admittedly by a British Sikh, who is educated and has lived in the UK for years...yet others find the sentences frustrating and full of typos ( who knows not 2 Panjabis spell the same way as far I have seen in the last 20 years) so when I sent it to an Audiobook reader in Canada she said reading your story- thanks for sharing somehow many typos and problematic sentences interfere with the flow and understanding of the text This despite it having been proof read ( Admittedly the guy is no professional but understands our western mind set.) so here below are the links to stories I sent her ( Assuming you read Panjabi, and if not maybe someone who does can read and say if she is right) https://www.punjabikahani.punjabi-kavita.com/Khat-Roop-Dhillon.php?fbclid=IwAR1w6vMgQAMt0QSeOX67sRSNWls9v9nu_udiLr5H5igmHvxJd4HTWNCwp8Y and http://www.punjabizm.com/forums-red-ripples-rupinder-dhillon-26192-5-1.html?fbclid=IwAR0CbigmKLJdNytW8ls5v5yx51FNQK9EkNqcHyoV6t0nGT_QL9g6fFzUC0g

just saw this. So do yo or would you read such stories?

no. It was only a question for Dalsingh as he first shared my work and I know he has a similar background. You are allowed an opinion as much as the next man. Its opinions I am seeking as I am feeling low about all I have tried to do. I think the problem is our anglization or is it that we can only communicate in English now? The thing is that is also fast becoming the case in Panjab anyhow as far as I can see. They read English more than anything else now and Hindi above Panjabi...this is our parents who only think Economically, so seeing Panjabi as useless have send all the middle class kids to Convert Schools where Panjabi is banned and so now you have only slightly better off Panjabis than us in Panjab who in 2 decades will also stop using Panjabi I think. Nevertheless the question is what can we do to start a British / Canadian / OZ etc movement where even if it is our second language we are willing to and will read Panjabi books, be they Religious, Factual or Fiction. But before I can openly discuss that with Sikhawareness members I need to understand am I wasting time and there is no audience. That's why I addressed DalSingh and would like to know what you think. For example are you willing ( assuming you already haven't) to learn Panjabi and read books in Panjabi, especially my variety which let's face it takes more from Western Novels and Films than Panjabi books and Bollywood. Or am I wasting my time?

Dear Dalsingh I did try many times to send this message to you in private but it says you cannot receive messages, so I am going to have to talk and allow the whole world to know. I could post this under any of the following titles as I am not publicly saying this. - Am I wasting my life writing in Punjabi? - Should only those raised in Punjab and educated THERE in punjabi only communicate in the Punjabi language's written form? - British Sikhs, British Punjabis ( of all religions and beliefs) fundamentally can and should only communicate in English and not Punjabi. Our mother tongue it can never be and we are never going to read it All the above covers some of my emotions and concerns. There is a last one..We in the west should create our own group of Punjabi readers and writers of the language in our own English influenced way,,,,even if that creates an elite of a few dozen...or I am just a fool who wastes his life on Punjabi and should join the rest writing in English...after all here I am trying to appeal to you all, knowing Sikhawareness is almost exclusively in Engllish So why am I specifically addressing you? I came to Sikhawareness purely because I found you sharing my stories here. I also recall you saying you have a similar background and understood my Barharlee ( Videsi) Panjabi better than Theth Panjabi due to the change in syntax to how English works and more importantly to it being how us guys raised in the west educated in English tend to speak Panjabi. This gave me hope and motivation, But it has also created a major problem for me. So the issue is a simple one. The only people who bother to read Panjabi and can ( Gurmukhi script is all I am talking about here) are all born and raised in Charda Panjab. However due them being mostly farmers and working people they do not have a reading culture ( despite praying to our Holy book / Guru on a daily basis??!!) or anything but a simple vocab. In short most don't really have knowledge of the equivalent words in Panjabi to my English Vocab, which is the only level I know how to write in. Their Theth sentences can be alien to us (Western raised Panjabis I mean and not Lahnda ones) and ours are definitely about as Alien to them syntax and word usage wise as maybe us reading a sentence written in English by a person from the Tibetan mountains in English after only studying the language for 5 days. Maybe its my personal way of writing that is the issue and no other UK punjabi who knows Punjabi has the same problem? Now I have been told by the Panjabis who have read my books I am far more creative and imaginative than any of their writers but lack the flow to keep the interest of how they know Theth Panjabi, The same set have said that I write like the Western born educated Sikh that I am and my natural audience can only be those few in the west who speak Panjabi by subconsciously adapting the english format ( example instead of saying galti ho gee I write galti ban gaee which is just English in Panjabi words as far as they are concerned). The Irony is this group are always only the children of the immigrant parents and may speak Panjabi, but only to their parents and speak English to their own kids and are highly unlikely to be able to read Panjabi let alone want to read my books. Thus reducing my 10% potential readers to 0.5%. SO in reality no readers I have tried to make up for this by writing for Indian Panjabis but they can't get past either my spelllings , grammar or western style sentences any more than we would be able to understand that Tibetan writing English after 5 days of English exposure....Only my journey just to even achieve this much took 20 years of my life. Begs the question I must be insane wasting my life? Also proves that unlike English, Spanish and other races who whereever they go take their languages to put it honestly and bluntly our people are too stupid to take their language with them and then for it to survive in the new enviroment make us kids read and write it. Statistics back up that Muslim people from our part of the world ensure that URDU GCSE uptake is in the thousands, we can't even manage a couple of hundred out of a British Sikh Panjabi population of 500,000 plus! So I am a fool based on logic writing for people who can't read and trying to appease people who won't... Should I just stop and accept this reality? Or should we as a group do something about it to create British Panjabi readers? Depending on your answer I will deal with the last in another post, but right now I feel like who the hell I am writing for? People who do not read for leisure?? Why bother??

All I can say is that I have become addicted to write in my form of Punjabi and can't help writing...it is true that in my early years I fell in love with the Painti when I saw it in those Gurdwara Kaidas

Sir you give me too much credit.. I am just trying to write in the "accent" of the western Punjabi Sikh, as I think the next gen of us in west won't even be able to speak Punjabi..Gurbani will probably be translated into English for them

this is google translate I think and is full of inaccuracies. eg Sher de tasoohe is not Lion's Claw but the Tears of a Tiger

Book Review https://m.punjabijagran.com/lifestyle/sahit-and-sabhyachar-a-novel-about-punjabi-immigrants-living-in-england-9132265.html

These courses exists ie the AQA Curriculum. Rhona has said the AQA throw events online to get teachers to meet up every year. The issue is the GCSE standard assume the people teaching are UK teacher qualified to the same standard as those teaching French for example. But on speaking to many kids who have gone to the Gurdwara, the impression given is that the teaching staff is not that educated but are only volunteers. It is a deep rooted issue as when I spoke to University Professors in India they admitted that even in Punjab the only people who become teachers in village and town schools are those who are not that well educated in Punjabi so teach it wrong there and these same people normally only pursue being a Granthi or Punjabi teacher when they are not good at anything else. So if the standards there are low and we are getting those same people coming here and teaching...not good

Almost all Pakistanis I know speak Punjabi. Its only 7 % of Pakistan's population knows Urdu. I assume you are not Sikh and are from India so have no knowledge of actual life in the west?

A lot of Punjabi speakers aren’t Sikh and many westerners are interested in Indian culture

Saying Punjabi should only be learnt by Sikhs is like saying Spanish should only be learnt by Catholics and German only by,,,etc etc..That is the problem in our community, Sikhs but make up less than a third of Punjabis. If we only keep on looking at it through a religious lens we are killing a language that was there before Baba Nanak. He did not make it a language to communicate because it was Sikh, which it became the language of as one community of Punjabis. he made it the language he chose because it was the common tongue and most people were either Muslim or Hindu. Our Indian mind always thinks in these terms which is why we are killing all but frivolous part of our culture. The second reason is its only languages that are taught to majority that get good funding and interest and thrive in a country. So why learn French? We are not all communists like them? But we learn it because being bilingual improves everyone's chances in the world. Make Punjabi economically significant so the schools teach it. take it out of religious institutions,. Almost every Punjabi kid I have spoken to has said uneducated people teach them Punjabi in temples and its just a place to dup kids.

For those who feel the teaching tools and requirements are out of date this is the person hundreds of us need to petition to make any impact. I won't go into the details of my correspondence. Short version some old out date but apparently teacher qualified punjabis advise them on what to include especially re text books and fiction for A Level. They won't change anything as it goes in 7 year cycles but like the chicken and egg you can apply to join their examining vacancies for Punjabi ( There are none) but then have to be UK standard degree level teacher qualified and haveing taught for years just to have your voice heard, Anyhow this is who you need to contact to make complaints or voice concerns about Punjabi education in the UK Rhona Thomson Curriculum Manager Languages AQA 01423 534 381 Counterintuitively being a Sikh I feel in this case the problem is we keep the language 1) exclusively to Sikhs 2) In Gurdwaras and this is the problem,. We need to take it out of our religious insitutions and into the general schooling system and encourage non Punjabis to learn it in school. then and only then I think Punjabis will benefit from better trained teachers rather than learning it in the parents crèche / dumping ground in the gurdwaras where lets face it they are unqualified and only concerned with religion.

Yup

Look at the Urdu intake compared to other Indian languages

sadly that may just be it

Yeah I don't know I wondered that. I also don't get it, If there are 700,000 Indian Punjabis ( Forget Lendha punjab for these purposes as they sit urdu) and 423K claim to speak Punjabi at home there should be thousands taking GCSE and hundreds taking A level and yes your point of the Punjabi schools makes it a mystery? Maybe people lie that they speak Punjabi at home with kids?

ਸੋ ਹੈਰਾਨੀ ਵਾਲੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਯੂ.ਕੇ ਦੇ ਵਿੱਚ 700,000 ਦੇ ਖਰੀਬ ਭਾਰਤੀ / ਚੜ੍ਹਦੇ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਵਾਸੀ ਨੇ ਪਰ ਜ਼ਿਆਦਾ ਜਣੇ ਹੁਣ ਬਾਹਰਵਾਸੀ ਹੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਏ ਨੇ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਕੇਵਲ 273,000 ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲ਼ ਸਕਦੇ ਨੇ। ਠੀਕ, ਪਰ ਫੇਰ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਸ਼ਰਮਨਾਕ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ 273,000 ( 7 ਲੱਖ ਦਾ 40 ਪ੍ਰਤਿਸ਼ਤ ਅੰਕ) ਵਿੱਚੋਂ 112 ( ਜੇ ਆਪਾਂ ਫ਼ਰਜ਼ ਕਰੀਏ ਕਿ ਤੀਜਾ ਹਿੱਸਾ) ਸ਼ਾਇਦ 90,000 ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲ਼ਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ 'ਚੋਂ ਹੀ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਏ ਲੇਵਲ ਕਰਨ ਤਿਆਰ ਸਨ! 112 ਤਾਂ 273 ਹਜ਼ਾਰ 'ਚੋਂ ਸਿਰਫ਼ 0.04 ਫ਼ੀਸ ਹੈ! ਇਸ ਦਾ ਇਹ ਹੀ ਕਾਰਣ / ਇਸ ਦੀ ਵੱਜਾ ਇਹੀ ਹੀ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ/ ਸਕਦੀ ਕਿ ਸਚਾਈ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿੰਨਾ ਮਰਜ਼ੀ ਲੋਕਾਂ'ਚ ਸ਼ੋਰ ਮਾਰ ਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲੋ, ਪੜ੍ਹੋ ਤੇ ਲਿਖੋਂ, ਦਿਲ ਤੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਆਪਣੇ ਵਿਰਸਾ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਤਿਆਰ ਹੈ ਇਕੱਲੇ ਯੂ.ਕੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਮੇਜ਼ਬਾਨ ਨਾਲ਼ ਇੱਕ ਕਰਨਾ ( ਜਿਹੜੀ ਚੰਗੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ) ਪਰ ਆਪਣੀ ਮਾਂ-ਬੋਲ਼ੀ ਉਜਾੜਣ ਨੂੰ। ਜੋ ਕੁੱਝ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਇੱਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਤੋਂ ਵਾਂਝਾ ਕਰ ਦਾ ( ਧਰਮ ਮਜ਼੍ਹਬ, ਜਾਤਪਾਤ) ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਕਾਇਮ ਰੱਖਣ ਤਿਆਰ ਹਨ। ਵਾਵਾ ਬਾਰਹਲੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀਓੰ, ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੁਹਾੜੀ ਮਾਰਨ ਤਿਆਰ ਹਨ! ਕੱਲ੍ਹ ਤੁਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਨਾ। ਜੋ ਬਾਹਰਵਾਰਸ ਨੇ ਕਰਨਾ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਖ਼ੁਦ ਹੀ ਤੇਜ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ! ਪੱਕੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਬੱਚਿਆ ਨਾਲ਼ ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਇੰਗਲਿਸ਼ ਬੋਲ਼ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ ਅਤੇ ਜ਼ਬਰਦਾਸਤੀ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਘਰ 'ਚ ਪੜ੍ਹਣਾ ਲਿਖਣਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਿੱਖਾ ਰਹੇ! ਮਤਲਬ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿੱਚ! ਬੋਲ਼ ਕੇ ਕੁਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਣਾ। ਜਿਹੜੀ ਕੌਮ ਜ਼ੁਬਾਨ ਕਿਤਾਬਾਂ'ਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਰ ਦੀ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਜ਼ੁਬਾਨ ਕੱਲ੍ਹੋਂ ਮਰਦੀ। ਇਹ ਜੰਮਾ ਨਾ ਕਿ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਾ ਦਾ ਹੈ , ਨਾ ਕੇ ਸਕੂਲਾਂ ਦਾ। ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਮਾਂ-ਪਿਓ ਦਾ!

Punjabi Sci Group What do you think? Good idea?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721JQ38D_gA ਜੇ ਹੋਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੇ ਮਾਫ਼ੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਗਣੀ ਜਾਂ ਦੇਣੀ ਮਸ਼ਹੂਰ ਅਦੀਬਾਂ ,ਕਲਾਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਅਦਾਕਾਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਟੀ਼ ਵੀ ਕੈਮਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਇਹ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਕਦਮ ਚੁੱਕ ਹੋ ਸੱਕੇ। ਇੰਝ ਹੀ ਚੁਰਾਸੀ ਬਾਰੇ ਵੀ ਹੋਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ

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