Black Goddess

Thanks Hari , something just clicked in my head after reading that post.

ooooooh..

No, but the subject being discussed was sangeet?

Nari...lol.

Tableji, can you explain the word Gurmat?

To me, Gurmat Sangeet is singing the Gurbani in the raags in which it was composed, something Im working on as I am not comfortable/familiar with every raag in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Thats beautiful Pheena.

who can tell whether its genuine 'shardha'?

Exactly, and neither can you, so let Guru Sahib decide who has real Shardha.

Palm, the issue is not that he is Mian Mir's descendant but that someone who is accomplished at some level in Gurmat Sangeet should be allowed to sing in front of Maharaaj, regardless of religion. Khalaas.

The above post I made earlier clearly states the person should have some knowledge of Gurmat Sangeet, which is based on classical raags, although I did contradict myself when I said anyone who has shardha should be able to sing in a gurdwara, so thanks for pointing that out.

Niranjana, Im merely saying a person who has shardha for Maharaj and is aware of the protocol to be observed in the Gurudwara should be allowed to do Kirtan. Now, many money who are obviously not Amritdhari work in the langar and do paath, knowing how they must act within a Gurdwara without any problems whatsoever. Why not these people?

Do they have to be wearing a Kirpan to be able to sing?

Im a feminatic, get it? Aaah Shadap Nari...Naari..get it? lmao.

Good points Niranjana. Palm, the issue is not that he is Mian Mir's descendant but that someone who is accomplished at some level in Gurmat Sangeet should be allowed to sing in front of Maharaaj, regardless of religion. Khalaas.

Oh and now they are finally realising that women should be given the same rights when it comes to worship and singing in the Darbar Sahib, that took a while.

Excellent post Iron Bangle. I feel the same.

why should Mian Mir's descendants get any special privelages over anybody else? I am believe just having a holy man as a fore-father isn't good enough reason to demand to be allowed to play at harmandir sahib. if the guy has any special skills which haven't been mentioned in this thread then it may be a different matter, but as things stand i don't see the controversy.

Special priviliges? So singing Kirtan in front of Guru Sahib is a special privilige? I thought it was something everyone should be encouraged to do, have you read the way you sound here?

Not everyone has special skills, doesnt mean which should ban them from singing Kirtan.

As Iron Bangle said very rightly, if the Bhagats Bani was included in the Guru Sahib we bow to daily, why are non-Sikhs not allowed to do Kirtan?

The controversy is clear, people should be allowed to sing Kirtan regardless of their caste and religion, its ridiculous. People can eat in the langar from all walks of life, Guru Sahib didnt force Mardana to convert even though he was with Maharaj for his whole life!

I remember my Dad telling me great Kirtania's who were not baptised Sikhs sung Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, Bhai Chaand (propagator of the parmaan style of kirtan).

They complain of Brahminism and yet they are the worst when it comes to their silly rules.

I read on tapoban that only Giani Gyaan Singh wrote of Mian Mir's involvement with the foundation stone. Is this true? Are there any earlier accounts mentioning this?

Guru Ji asking a Muslim to lay the foundation stone of a place which has 4 doors (for anyone to enter) makes more sense to me, not selecting who is eligible to do it based on how big his sarbloh kara is!

SGPC’s no to descendents of Mian Mir

Amritsar, February 27

The Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) has refused to give permission to Nasin Maqdoom Sayeed Chan Pir Quadri, a descendant of Muslim saint Hazrat Mian Mir of Pakistan, to perform religious hymns in the sanctum sanctorum of the Golden Temple here.

Quadri, the 19th descendant of Hazrat Mia, who is believed to have laid the foundation stone of the temple in 1589 on the request of fifth Sikh Guru Arjan Dev, had arrived here from Pakistan two days ago through the Wagah route with the desire to perform kirtans (hymns) at the Golden Temple.

“We don’t have any problem with their religion but the SGPC and Sikh religion have certain set criteria for anybody who wants to sing kirtans inside the Golden Temple which is lacking in the team lead by Quadri,†SGPC President Bibi Jagir Kaur told reporters here today.

“As per Sikh religion norms, only those people can perform kirtan inside the temple who adopt Sikh religion in letter and spirit. One should be well-versed to sing kirtan as per Sikh rituals for which one has to go through the mandatory training imparted by the SGPC and other Sikh religious and spiritual institutes,†she said. — PTI

Rupz its nothing to do with caste or elitism. Some as Rakash rightly said have a intrinsic nature which makes them warriors, some dont follow that path and can still attain. Sikhi caters for diversity within people and religions. No other path I think covers it so well.

People often agree with things because the majority believe it, it is not the criteria for truth.

The person who wants to take amrit specifically from the Nihangs believes he will follow that specific maryada well than an AKJ maryada. Even though I dont think the external rehit is the end, its a starting point, his nature is suited to the Nihang order, encourage him to follow his path, likewise, encourage others who may choose something else, neither is inferior for the path he/she has chosen, not in my Guru's eyes, thats for sure.

Im gettin my whip out..

I think someone fainted again..*shock*

Do people from tapoban read stuff on here? cos Im having visions of people fainting from shock..

yes...no..yes? no? *silence*

Oh here we go again, put everything into lil boxes and ignore the shades of grey..

Er might sound stupid but its early and so Il post it anyway. Why are you a Sikh? Is it because ur born into a Sikh family and you think God has chosen for you? Or is it because you've read SOME Gurbani and known it was the absolute truth? Or because you've read ALL of it and its been proven to you? OR have you not read anything and just feel its the truth because you cant explain, or worse you're just going with the flow?

If I should mind my own business ignore the post and carry on reading my other intelligent posts by doing a search under my name, yeeehaaa..(new mating call, where's beasty's farm?)

I luv those animated emoticons u can put in titles..wooo..

Crunchies make ur teeth stick together, sorry..yes coming back to the point, I have to agree with the two posts..we shouldnt sacrifice so much for tourism and money..

I dunno why no one has mentioned the word 'diversity', clones are sooooo not in this season (muahahaha). Naroo's post proves that Sikhi has always respected and nurtured diversity, or do we go around knocking on doors every sunday to preaaach..god I cant stand 'em. Khalaas..whats the fuss about? *flashes whip around*

I thought everyone was banned..everyone with an opinion of course.

Many Thanks my friends, dont listen to Sukh-nutter Kaur, I am the real Xena of course :wink: *hands out free whips to everyone in happiness*

Nooooooooooooooo *busted* *whips beast and DB together*