The Khalsa Fauj

Inder Singh Ji, I understand your concern about Spokesman Editor but why are you placing all anti-DG people into same category? That is like saying all granthis are luchas just because one got caught filming a bibi on camera. Lets no generalize. Let us tell you, we are more hurt about what people like spokesman say than you. You get a tip to trash talk anti-DG people and label them as anti-Guru. By the way, above article is written by a bibi who herself is against Dasam Granth. Lets not link opposition of Dasam Granth to activities of certain individuals.

ਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਗਉ ਕਿਆ ਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪਾਹਣੁ ਨੀਰਿ ਪਖਾਲੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਬੂਡਹਿ ਤੇਹਿ ॥ ੬॥ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਲਖੁ ਨ ਲਖੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਜਗੁ ਬੂਡੈ ਪਤਿ ਖੋਇ ॥ ਮੇਰੇ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹਾਥਿ ਵਡਾਈਆ ਭਾਈ ਜੈ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੈ ਦੇਇ ॥ ੭॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੬੩੭}

ਭਰਮੇ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੨੫੮}

ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ ॥ ੪॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੮੭੪}

Full article is available at link below:

http://www.indiaawareness.com/archives/aug...sman_editor.htm

Yea, they existed but not as the creator, sustainer and evaluator.

They existed as human that owned small territories.

They didn't exist as creator, sustainer and evalutor of creation.

Hopefully, that clears things up. Please do post reply if you understand my point or if you don't understand my point.

Thanks.

Inder Singh, don't make a scene.

You know very well on what I meant by trimurti and doesn't and that Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh existed.

Laal Singh Ji,

Do you agree with Gurbani that God is the Only Creator, the Only Provider and the Only Evaluator?

Gurbani quotes are below once again:

ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਵਿਸਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥ ੫॥ (੨-੧੦, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

One God is the only provider of all beings; May I never forget Him. 5.

ਦਦਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਕਉ ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰ ॥ (੨੫੭-੧੦, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ: ੫)

Dadda: God is the only provider; God gives to all.

ਹਰਿ ਇਕੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਇਕੁ ਇਕੋ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ॥ (੮੩-੬, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, ਮ: ੩)

All-pervading God is the Sole Creator; there is only one Court of the One All-pervading Lord.

ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਕਾਰ ॥ (੭-੫, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

Having created the creation, the Creator God watches over it. Nanak, True is the creation of the True Lord.

ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਮੈਡਾ ਸਾਂਈ ॥ (੧੧-੧੪, ਆਸਾ, ਮ: ੪)

Oh my Master Lord! You are the True Creator.

ਮਾਇਆ ਮਾਈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਪਰਸੂਤਿ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥ (੧੦੬੬-੨, ਮਾਰੂ, ਮ: ੩)

Maayaa, the mother, gave birth to the three gunas, the three qualities.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਜਨਮੇ ਗਵਨੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੯੪੦}

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਖ ਸਾਖਾ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਕੀਏ ਕੇਸੋ ਕੀਓ ਨ ਮੀਤੁ ॥ ਚਾਲੇ ਥੇ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲਨ ਕਉ ਬੀਚੈ ਅਟਕਿਓ ਚੀਤੁ ॥੯੬॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੬੯}

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਇ ਮੂੰਡਉ ਤਿਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਭਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਆਪ ਡੁਬੇ ਚਹੁ ਬੇਦ ਮਹਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਦੀਏ ਬਹਾਇ ॥੧੦੪॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੬੯}

ਪੜਿਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਬੁਝਿਐ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੮}

Just like we can have janam in Guru's house and be chelas of Guru.

Maayaa gives way to three qualities which are also her chelas.

We can be chelas of 5 vikaars or 5 vikaars can be our chelas.

Creation is from same elements.

What does a teacher create? A student.

Who did maayaa create? Trai Guon.

Quotes have been given in original article.

Laalsingh ji, Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh were trapped into three gunas of maayaa. That is why they were also chelas of maaya. They weren't the only chelas of maaya. There were others and are others. There was nothing special about Brahma, Vishnu or Mahesh. That is why Gurbani says there were many like them and there are many like them.

Sarpanee is maayaa.

Let me post some quotes:

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਰੋਗੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਚੇਤਹਿ ਬਪੁੜੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ ੨॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੭੩੫}

ਸਦਾ ਸਹਜੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸਚੇ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭੁਲੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੮੫੨}

ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਿੰਨ ॥ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥ ੧॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੨੮੩}

Chela means follower. The three qualities of maayaa follow the principles of maayaa.

Those who are trapped in trai guon are trapped in maayaa. Do you agree?

Laal Singh Ji, please give a good explanation of Pauri 30 then because based on quotes from Gurbani posted by you and me, it is clear that Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh aren't the Creator, Provider and Evaluator.

How would you translate three chelas in Japuji quote then?

Also, maayaa only lured Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh?

All the leaders of our kaum who sell religion for self aren't lured by maayaa?

When did I say three gunas are Brahama, Vishnu and Shiva. Tuk I am talking about is ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨੋ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ॥

Oh ok. I appreciate you clarifying.

You are right about Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh falling into trap of maayaa.

Side Note: I never said Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh didn't exist.

Laalsingh

Three guons of maayaa are rajo, tamo and sato

Not Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh

Book says 10,000 bars meaning years.

It depends on what type of Sikh the person is and whose Sikh the person is.

Gurbani Paath Darshan is the original one. Gurbani Paath Darpan is the new and edited version. Many anti-Gurmat points have been fixed in Gurbani Paath Darpan.

It is anti-Gurmat. It either needs to be edited or disposed.

I can't comment on kala afgana's writing because I haven't read his books. However, Bipren Kee Reet doesn't exist in Sarabloh Granth. At least not in the one I saw at Dixie Gurduara. It also doesn't say Khalsa Akaal Purakh Kee Fauj. It says Khalsa Kaal Purakh Kee Fauj. There are some other minor differences. It seems like the Khalsa Mehma outside of Sarabloh Granth has been edited to make it more according to Gurmat.

I see lots of confusion in this thread. There is no need to twist Gurbani. The only thing we need to do is properly understand Gurbani. Muslims call us a sect of Islam because we never understood Gurmat properly and never did parchar properly. Hindus call us Hindus because we never translated Gurbani properly and try to rely on mythological sakhis given in Hindu granths. This has stopped a lot now but in the past, katha vaachak would spend whole time telling wrong Sakhi from Hindu granths. Gurbani rejects karamkaandi sakhis and gives the truth.

We have failed to understand who Raam is, who Krishan is, who Damodar is, who Madsoodan is, etc. etc. However, there is improvement on the way. Those interested should try to buy and read this book.

This book gives us aarths of some shabads which have been highly mistranslated.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WIgVbYVhzQM/Snf4...book+design.jpg

Source is Gyani Gurbachan Singh Bhindrawala's book.

Page 88 of Gurbani Paath Darshan (1969 edition).

So what Arths do you do for bani such as Sunniai Eesar Brahma Ind or Gur Isar Gur Gorakh Brahma Gur Parbati Maee from Jap Ji Sahib?

If they do not exists why are mentioned?

Bani is the exonerated truth so why have fictional characters, does that not throw the foundation of which the lines of bani are written cemented on lies and falsehood?

We will also get aarths of that shabad at some point. There are many other shabads like that. Some have been translated already, some aren't and some will be in future. We just have to keep patience.

Gurbani rejects trimurti of Brahma Vishnu Mashesh. Arths are done based on that. That is all. Trimurti doesn't exist so them working under someone makes no sense. If you like the arths, fine, if not, then fine.

Mr. Balbir Singh Ji of www.saysatsriakal.com

You have a valid question even though it may seem and sound funny.

Brahman isn't our Guru because we walk on the path given by Bhagats and Nanak in Gurbani.

Please also read the next line after the one you posted. It will tell you why Brahman is rejected as Guru.

Other than that, you have to use dasam duar to answer questions which are raised in your thoughts.

This is an interesting topic. Both sides are basing their arguments based on their understanding of Bhai Gurdas Vaars and Gurbani and Dasam Granth. Both sides are making some valid points but one side has a bit of an advantage than the other side because of using quotes from Gurbani and Dasam Granth.

It depends if her apology was from heart or just a show. However, she did seem cooled down a lot. It does appear though that she will never make such comments again. This is a good thing because we don't need more issues to take care of.

Is Gurdev asking Maayaa the address or whereabouts of Raam?

Maayaa is inside you. You are full of maayaa.

Maaee has many meaning. Depends on where it is used.

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

Gurdev is saying that everyone is claiming to be the highest. That is why there is aunkar there. Logica is still the same. You just have to understand and use your naam simran if you have done some.

You will not become truthful by praying to truth. You will become truthful by following truth.

So now take the next step and start following the truth by implementing it into your life.

What a joke, it was a joke initially when you put this on your blog let alone post it here.

Your Hangta makes only your arths right and all others wrong!

So for the last 305 years all the arths were wrong and now you have had the divine revelation to lead us down your righteous path saving us from damnation.

I suggest when Prof Sahib appears before the takhats to prove the dasam granth wrong in front of the 11 member committee which are readuy and waiting, can you also go along and explain how you came to your conclusion and how the sampardai arths for the last 305 years have mislead us.

Do you not understand that Jap Ji sahib is a question and answer between Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the Sidhs. Where is the question asked between each pangti and before the pauri? I think you should post those so the arths you have done may fit into the contaxt!

Bhai jealous keo karee jaanaa? You probably had same thing to say when Prof. Sahib Singh did aarths. No one knew aarths before Sahib Singh? When time comes, we will explain arths to 11 membree committee but will they be able to explain their karamkaand and durmat? However, where did Dasam Granth come from in this thread? Is it that whenever you see my post, you start having nightmares of Dasam Granth being removed from Sikh dharam? Lets not bring in Dasam Granth into this thread. Bring live talk if you want to talk Dasam Granth. By the way, there was no written teekaa before the Faridkoat one. Prof. Gurmukh Singh refused to participate to help them make it because he knew they wouldn't make it according to Gurmat. That wasn't 305 years ago; was it?

How are those arths anti-Gurmat? You like aarths which give authority to brahman's brahma, vishnu and mahesh?

Samprdaa believes in trinity of Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh to be running this creation. Gurmat doesn't accept this trinity to be of any power. I will go with Gurmat and not trinity being forced down throats of Sikhs by karamkaandis and vedantis.

Gurbani says these devtas were kings of previous times and nothing more.

Why should I take aarth of Faridkoat teeka then? Aarths of many shabads will be done properly in the future even after me and you are gone. Arths of Gurbani will always be understood better as time goes on and more study is put into Gurbani to understand arths.

KF, its perfectly fine to accept the trinity as the creative, sustaining and destroying 'personalities/aspects/characteristics' of Parmatma, no Sikh is implying that they are multi-faceted, conch blowing, trident waving giants sitting on clouds hovering about Himaaliya somewhere...

It is not fine to accept trimurti of Brahma Vishnu Mahesh because Gurbani didn't accept them to be creator, sustainer and destroyer. I have given quotes to backup what has been said. Please read them again. Sikhs can never accept Vishnu to be the provider because Gurbani says God is provider. Brahma can never be accepted as Creator because God is kartaa Purakh. Please don't ignore core Gurmat philosophy when going arths. Spend more time to understand the shabad better instead of doing arths which don't fit Gurmat.

Points have been backed up by other quotes given in the original post. Instead of being jealous, maybe take time to learn and understand. Balbir Singh, I don't know what you are on about. Why should I accept trimoorti of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh when Gurbani doesnt't? Who should I listen to? Gurbani or man made sampardaa?

ਏਕਾ ਮਾਈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਿਆਈ ਤਿਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ ਇਕੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਲਾਏ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ॥ ਜਿਵ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਚਲਾਵੈ ਜਿਵ ਹੋਵੈ ਫੁਰਮਾਣੁ ॥ ਓਹੁ ਵੇਖੈ ਓਨਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਏਹੁ ਵਿਡਾਣੁ ॥ ਆਦੇਸੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਆਦੇਸੁ ॥ ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲੁ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਨਾਹਤਿ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸੁ ॥ ੩੦॥

Meanings of some words:

Ekaa means one // Maaee means maayaa // Jugat means way, form // Veaaee means to join or connect // Tin means three // Chaylay means followers // Parvann means known or acceptable // Tin Chaylay means three qualities of maayaa // Parvaann means accepted // Ik means One but it refers to God here because there is an aunkar underneath the kakka // Sansaree means Creator // Bhandaaree means Provider // Deebaann means Court Holder

Tis means He // Vidaann means wonderful //

How do we know maee means maayaa?

ਮੁਈ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਈ ਹਉ ਖਰਾ ਸੁਖਾਲਾ ॥ (੪੭੬-੮, ਆਸਾ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)

My maaee (maaya within me) is dead; I am relieved.

ਮਾਇਆ ਮਾਈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਪਰਸੂਤਿ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥ (੧੦੬੬-੨, ਮਾਰੂ, ਮ: ੩)

Maayaa, the mother, gave birth to the three gunas, the three qualities.

God is the creator based on Gurbani and not Brahma.

ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਕਾਰ ॥ (੭-੫, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

Having created the creation, the Creator God watches over it. Nanak, True is the creation of the True Lord.

ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਮੈਡਾ ਸਾਂਈ ॥ (੧੧-੧੪, ਆਸਾ, ਮ: ੪)

Oh my Master Lord! You are the True Creator.

God is the only provider as per Gurbani. How do we know what ik refers to God here? There is an aunkar below the kakka in Ik. It is the same as the quotes below:

ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਵਿਸਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥ ੫॥ (੨-੧੦, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

One God is the only provider of all beings; May I never forget Him. 5.

ਦਦਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਕਉ ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰ ॥ (੨੫੭-੧੦, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ: ੫)

Dadda: God is the only provider; God gives to all.

Deebaann is sometimes translated as destroyer but that is not true. Deebaann means court.

Gurbani says there is only one court of God. Gurbani quote below gives further proof that the Ika Sansari, Ika Bhandari, Ik Laaye Deebaann quote is referring to God.

ਹਰਿ ਇਕੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਇਕੁ ਇਕੋ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ॥ (੮੩-੬, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, ਮ: ੩)

All-pervading God is the Sole Creator; there is only one Court of the One All-pervading Lord.

One maaya gave way / form to three gunas (attributes of maayaa) came into existence; they have been accepted (by the world over God meaning humans have given more preference to maayaa than God). God is the Sole Creator, God is the Sole Provider for all and God is the Sole Evaluator in His Court. God operates according to His liking based on His Divine Command. (Had it been three deities controlling the creation, it would have been jiv tin bhaavai but the word is Tis with an aunkar underneath). God sees all but he isn’t seen by others; this is the great wonder! I bow, I bow to Him. The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end; throughout time, He is the One and the Same. 30