The Khalsa Fauj

Dal Singh is right. If something like Sikhs fighting gets into the courts, only two parties will benefit from this. The anti Sikh media reporters such as Kim Bolan and the Kala Afghanists who will start to pretend they are martyrs for some righteous cause and the Sikhs who are standing up for Khalsa ideals and Gurbani will appear to be the villains. It has happened to the Sikhs in the past and I can see it happening again. I feel that the Sikhs need to defeat these Kala Afghanists using intellectual discussion, through parchar, through the media just as the Khalsa Panth finished the Bhasourias. The Akal Takht supports our cause and we need to keep full faith in Dasam Pitaa and know that he wil help his Panth in defeating these Kala Afghanists.

There is no such thing as kala afghanists. It is called Guru Granth Purists. This is the best terminology given by your own Vijaydeep Singh. I thank Vijaydeep Singh for giving us good terminology. Please call us Guru Granth Sahib Purists from now on. We call you guys dasam granthis so call us Guru Granth chelas or Guru Granth Purists. Thanks a lot in advance.

Harjas Kaur, good work. You are using exactly the same quotes these guys use against me. Good work. Keep it up.

Mithar I agree with you on the discussion part, who is anti-10th Paatshah is to be seen during discussion.

Here is something I want to ask you all DG lovers:

You guys say stories in dasam granth are fake meaning stories about Aurangzeb and Akbar and Noor Jahan and Jahagir and other members of their family are also fake?

If they are fake, why would Guru Ji write fake stories about someone and their family members? Is this Gurmat? Would it be correct to write fake stories about a bibi of someone's family? Everyone is ankhee, ladaee hoa jaandee, people don't even like true stories about people's sister or mother being spread. By the way, our dharam says:

Par Istree Dhee Bhen Bakhanai

Based on this: Why would Guru Gobind SIngh Ji write stories to defame women from families of Aurangzeb and others?

What if Aurangzeb's supporters and Muslims say the reason for war against Sikhs was for honor of their women?

Please answer logically. Thank in advance. Don't give me mantree bhoop excuse. You can hate me and other anti-DGs all you want but one day you people will be forced to speak against DG by non-Sikhs when they lay question after question based on DG. You people should travel in the world and get out of your so called groups and look at mentality of non-Sikhs. As said by Dalsingh, non-Sikhs are always looking for excuses to defame Sikh faith. Rest is up to you people.

Dal singh ji

This is going on for the last 10 years or so.Singhs have shown extreme restraint when the bani with which they are baptized and form part of their nitnem is being abused in the worst language day in and out.

We are sikhs of tenth master who sacrifced everything so that we can live as pround human beings. When it comes to defend his bani certinly sikhs will be jusitfied to use established ways of system.

As said before, you believe it is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's writing, we accept it as writings of Poet Shyam, Poet Raam and poet Kaal. You call it dasam granth while we call it bachitter natak granth. This was its original name.

Dalsingh Ji!

Christians got rated 2.24 times better because they are smart and know how to behave unlike people like Iqbal Singh patna who sent people to attack prof. Darshan or some others who sent some thugs to beat me. Do we ever go to pro DG Gurduaras and tell them not to read Mahakal rakhvaar hmaaro? I don't think so. Then why do pro DG people don't even let us preach Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Why do they always issue threats and do violence? By the way, those who attacked me already, some of them already have criminal records and have been charged multiple times.

People need to realize the cause that resulted in this scuffle.If fauji does not believe in Dasam granth he should keep it a private affair.Name calling and ridiculing Dasam granth by him had resulted in this incident.He should learn a lesson from this.

I hope he understands that civilzed people do not criticize belief system of others.If he does not behave i am sure the subject material should be referred to appropriate authorites. Laws are applicable to everyone. His utterances seem to fall in hate crime category.

Who started this name calling and hate? You did. I will drag you to court in future too if you keep spreading hate against me and other anti-DGs. I talked nicely to you but you called me naastik, kala afghanist, dusht, anti-Sikh and God knows what. You also made false allegations such as me not believing in Khande Kee Pahul and said I question bhagat bani and that I attack Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Court will decide who started hate attack on whom. News reports on panthic.org aren't hidden from anyone. They should also be taken to court for hate crimes. DG being writing of poet shyam, raam and kaal is already known. Courts won't accept your excuse of pen names because court will also look at how Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written and why first nine Nanaks used Nanak. So you want to take matter to court, sure do so. We will also discuss chariter 21-23 in court and decide if it is related to 10th Nanak or not. There are other stories that also need to be discussed. We will also request judge to assign a rating to CP. It will either bet 14+ or 17+. It is up to judge on which one it is going to be. We will provide logic and Gurbani while you can bring your excuse of mantree bhoop sambaad. Judge will also decide if mantree bhoop sambaad means Gurbani from mouth of 10th Nanak or it means just literature by some poets. How about taking whole DG issue to court and judge making decision on it? Dasam Granth attacks Khande Kee Pahul (read BN), attacks 5 pyaras (read Krishan avtar and charitropakhyan), attacks bhagats (read BN, Krishan Avtar and Chariters), attacks Guru Ji (read CP and BN).

We also have the threads you people have made in hatred against Prof. Darshan Singh, Jagtar SIngh Jachak, Gurbachan Singh Thailand and others. Who forces who's views on who isn't unknown. Who has been sending threats to shut down anti-DG Gurduaras isn't unknown. You want to take it to court, I wouldn't mind one bit. You people often give death threats asking for head of Prof. Darshan Singh, Jachak and others so they aren't unknown either. Lets take this to court. You making threats such as come to California and speak against DG and see what happens is nothing more than a threat. I am starting to think you provoked those guys here to attack me otherwise none of them every acted in such manner. I also remember you people asking why Gurpreet Singh wasn't attacked and stopped from singig his poem. I should report you to police next time if someone ever issues a threat to me or even discusses an attack on me. It is my mistake for not giving your name that day to police. However, next time, I will. Prof. Darshan Singh still has to come back from India and take Lamba to US court for defaming him by editing his recordings.

What a double faced hypocrite you are. On one side you hang the pictures of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala and Sukha-Jinda Shaheeds and on the other side you call Khalistanis-Kharkoos as Goondas. A politically independent Khalsa Raaj will happen whether you or your GOI masters like it or not.

If DG will be read, no chance. If not, then yea there is a maybe. No one is more hypocrite than those who say we accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as complete Guru and then force third party content down throat of Sikhs.

Ah! the truth finally comes out. Kala Afghanist movement is a creation of the GOI to weaken the Sikhs within, and destroy our aspirations for a politically independent Sikh homeland. First the Kala Afghanists start off by questioning Dasam Bani and then basic Sikh Sidhaants and now even our political aspirations. The Kala Afghanist movement is not alone in this. The Narakdharis, Radhasoamis, Noormahalias, Sacha Sauda are all movements designed by GOI to weaken and confuse the Khalsa Panth.

Yea, label me as GOI, I don't care. That is all you guys could do. Tell me who is worst? GOI or Khalistani goondas attacking Sikhs? Did GOI ever attack Sikhs in another country? Blame the GOI all you want but the kharkoos weren't sants either. What were kharkoos doing in 86 in darbar shaib complex? Why were dead bodies of girls found? They were picking up any girl, raping and killing. However, government officials were no better either. Both sides were wrong. This is the truth. If khakoos were good, they wouldn't have lost support from general public. Especially, after Akaal Takht was attacked abdali style.

Khalistan isn't about to come about anytime soon so you don't need to worry about that.

On the other front, will pro Dasam Granth scholars be going to Haryana and debating? Can't we avoid any violence between ourselves over this matter?

We really have to get over the 'heavy' stuff.

A quick question if you will Khalsa Fauj, what do think of Jaap Sahib? I don't see anything within that gives any indication of it not being dasmesh pita's myself.

Do you not think ANY of the DG is from Guru Gobind Singh?

There is no doubt there will be no Khalistan. People in west get brainwashed by parcharaks from east who want to take their money on name of Khalistan.

Go through above link and you will get info about Dasam Granth. Also watch the related videos.

God is clearly defined in Mool Mantar. If you don't want to believe it, your issue. You got freedom of choice.

"Actually, please get your facts right. Obviously you are refferring to the AKJ view here. It is completely wrong to say that this view states the bhagat sahiban never got to Sach Khand. This view states they reached Karam Khand and then with the grace of Guru Nanak Dev Ji reached Sachkhand.

This doesn't seem incompatible with samprada view either IMHO."

Silence, please provide reference to where sampryada say this. Thanks.

KF,

Have you heard the old tradition of who the Sahibzadey were Avatars of..., probably best not to delve, you may have an heart attack!

If you don't want to accept it literally, have yuo ever thought of looking at the Bhagat-Panj Pyara tradition as metaphoric... relating the Pyaras names to the Bhagats they are supposed to represent..

This is the problem with you people, you live in such a dull world, metaphor/poetry/symbology are anti-gurmat/alien concepts to you people. You see the world through 2D.

God needs to fit your narrow education/knowledge/thought, otherwise he is not God.

When you can't answer based on Gurmat, use metaphor excuse and call other people dull or whatever. Very nice tactic. We try to see the world and history in light of Guru Granth Sahib Ji's teachings. Could you tell me where it is said that these things are metaphoric? What have sahibzadas been declared to be avtars of? Please tell me so I could spread the word.

People best think twice before dragging Sikh matters into courts and doing a public 'jaloose' of our quom. Khalsa Fauj, let people who want DG, have it, no one is forcing it on you are they?

These guys have been. First they forced Dixie Gurduara to stop giving us room to hold discussions. Then they issued threats when Sikh Lehar Gurduara was about to open. They they spread lies on radio saying we serve meat and other things in Gurduara. Then they made plans to defame people who go to Sikh Lehar. Then they issued threats when Harjinder Singh Dilgeer came to discuss situation on what happened with Sikhs in 84. Then these guys came to attack me on Saturday. It wasn't an attack on me but an attack on all anti-DGs because I was attacked because I am anti-DG. Is this the type of law that will occur in Khalistan? How would it be different from al-qaeda? I think Khalistan be worse than Afghanistan.

Court battle on debate over sikh scriptures? whats next?. Nevertheless, you are right court won't be biased, and you forgot to mention, court people are not idiots like you guys you like to nit pick and blow something out of context. Western academics know what should or should not be read in context. Anyway, Canadian courts are not interested in our petty internal affairs would be waste of tax payer money. I would suggest debate within sikh academia first, which you guys were challenged back in amritsar, India and you guys refuse to attend.

Ki gal chooriya paiiye hoii tuhaidaie? thenu patta ik aam banda india da canada ah nahi sakhda bina sponsership daie kanoon shakt han, us da jankaie faida utha kaie bakri wangu mein mein mein laa toronto aun di?

Maybe you don't know but:

http://thekhalsafauj.blogspot.com/2010/01/challenge-of-dgs-accepted.html

The type of debate people came to have with me is the type of debate that these people probably want to hold in India. Debate challenge was accepted so now it is up to pro DG group to take the next step of declaring their scholars and accepting the location.

http://www.gurmatgian.com/VIDEO_INDEX.htm

Who is this bhartharee? Is he the yogi that met Guru Nanak Ji? Does this book discuss anything about his personal life?

no, you focus on attacking your guru instead.

My Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Could you show me where I attacked Guru Granth Sahib Ji? If I have, I will go to akaal takht personally and get tankah. Any tankah panth gives me. Please don't make false allegations. Poet Shyam, Raam and Kaal were never Guru, aren't Guru and won't be Guru. Please like you spread false propaganda and brainwash people into attacking and hating others.

Khalsa Fauji, a true Khalsa would not run away from a fight even if he were faced by a Fauj of Sava Lakh. I don’t have one percent of respect for you as a person, but if you had stood your ground and fought like a true Fauji of the Khalsa then I would respect for you. Instead what you do is, you see a few Singhs waiting for you, getting scared you run away in panic into the Gurdwara and call the police with you trembling hands. Vah!! What a brave Fauji are!!! LOL!!

I’m sure 50 years from now Dhadhis will sing Vaaraan in praise of the bravery you displayed that day LOL!!!!

Although there is a contradiction in story. Your own supporter says that you were physically beaten up.

Gurbani says:

Kabeer Saakat Sung Na Keejeeaye Doorhe Jaaee-aye Bhaag so I went back in. By the way, were Sikhs cowards for going into jungles? What did you want from me? Fight them back and get a criminal record? No thanks. I stood there and they didn't hit me because some of them already have bad records. I wouldn't mind seeing them deported at all for causing problems in Canada. Many of them are blacklisted by Indian Government already so they will go straight to jail if they get deported.

It is best to be wise than be a thug. Was Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji a coward when Dhirmal attacked him and Guru Ji didn't attack him back? I know what you are trying to do and that is provoke me to fight. I will not attack anyone. I am not a thug and don't want to be labelled a thug. I don't believe in knocking off turbans as a moral lesson.

First of all, I like to say, what these people did to your father or yourself push or shove is totally uncalled for and very ungursikh like. Its natural you called police which any law abiding citizen would do in these kind of situation.

However, it also appears you using law as a token/shield to spread your parchar. I just like to remind you, have you read what Canadian laws says about hate speech against an group, hurting religious sentiments whether used in form of making blasphemous statements against scriptures. I like to remind you, it was same Canadian law who made fake guru narinder singh grewal run out of country because of serious charges against him. Do you realize, all it takes sri akaal tatkh sahib( sikh vatican) passing hukumnama that sri dasam granth sahib is sacred sikh text and passing a fatwa against anti parchars or anti parcharaks of sri dasam granth sahib, once its official you guys can be charged against hate crime laws in Canada which could stop you guys making blasphemous statements against sri dasam granth sahib?

I am surprised all these hot headed panthis would love to attack an lone man with his father didn't use that approach instead of restoring to bullying and violence.

Who are 5 pujaris to tell Sikhs who their Guru is? I would not mind taking DG to court for even a bit because court won't be biased. Taking DG to court might be the only solution. We will also have to see if there are any stories in DG that contain child porn, if that is the case, then Canadian Law will ban it permanently. What do you say? You guys want to take DG issue to court? We sure don't mind. I am sure court will accept poet Shyam, Raam and Kaal as pen names.

By the way, I am no so called Khalsa but true Khalsa. I don't go attack other Sikhs or other Gurduaras.

Harjas Kaur, all the shabads you are bringing up are given proper arths of in Baldev Singh's book. It is called Gurmat Gyan Da Chanan. Get is from Lahore book shop or other place if available in your area.

Quotes which DG lovers use against me are now being used against them to promote devi worship and avtarvaad. That is why I say, lets get proper arths of Gurbani done. But no, hatred for anti-DGs is blinding you guys. As a result, Sikh faith is being attacked from all around. In the end, truth will win but this is just making the process long.

how come bhai dharam singh ji was 2nd panj pyare not the first one? what happened? For sake of being consistent, i m sure you question, they raise their hand one by one to give heads, because in your head, they should have all raised their hand at once?

I never thought that way. It doesn't matter if they all put their hand up at same time or one by one. It is possible that Guru Ji did random selection from those who put thier hand up. It doesn't matter how they became 5 pyaras, point is they became 5 pyaras and took pahul. It isn't against Gurbani. Gurbani doesn't say anything about this so we can't say it is anti-Gurmat.

how come baba deep singh ji didn't get up to give his head before in vaishakhi?

It doesn't matter, maybe he did or maybe he wasn't there. It isn't a big deal. Guru Ji was selecting 5 pyaras so Guru Ji knows. It isn't against Gurbani.

how come sri guru arjan dev ji didn't raise the weapons against oppression but silently sat on hot plate and gave shaheedi? i am sure you question the event itself because it does not fit your twisted scientific logic let alone pondering about possibility it was razza of nirgun akaal purkh that they sat on the hot plate and gave shaheedi.

Why do you assume things? That isn't proper. I never said Guru Ji didn't sit on hot plate. I don't take word of any random scholar and start believing. You might think I am that way but I am not. I go with Gurbani and look at other events too.

n30 Ji!

You made a statement which was a bit weird. I will have to understand your point clearly to answer. Could you please make your statement again and rewrite or ask differently?

But do answer my post, i think its within framework of history, belief everyone share, missionary, non-missionary alike unless you want surprise us with another set of claims??

What is this belief that is shared? Guru Arjan Ji sat on plate? Yea, it is Sikh procedure to propagate peace. Guru Ji sat on plate for sidhant which Jahagir didn't want to agree to. Someone calls him a just emperor. Don't know how.

I don't know who sent that email but my dad was pushed down by a dasam granth lovers. Attacking old people is something they like to cherish the most. I was attacked but not beaten because I called law right away. You guys are only increasing friction by attacking others. It isn't solving any issues. All you guys are doing is filling us with more dislike of DG and making us even more stronger in our beliefs. They also pushed down two other old people. I don't get emails from them and I don't email them. Police has informed me not to send emails to any of those guys here. Once again, I was attacked but not beaten. Also, why are you making a thread here? Trying to prove how big thugs pro DG people are? By the way, they couldn't bear to hear my dad's lecture and were begging him to stop because they knew it was hard truth. They won't attack again if they have any sharam dharam. Attacking someone is sign of defeat. That is why Guru Ji never attacked dhirmallias because Guru Ji had truth. How can I not give example from Guru? Did you complain about Manpreet Singh Kanpur comparing himself to sahibzadas? How about all those sant babas comparing themselves to Guru? You mind because it goes against your side's activities and shows it is nothing but anti-Gurmat. As said before, our mission isn't to wage war and act like taliban or al qaeda.

Guru Gobind SIngh Ji came back too? That is something new.

Weird. I have been hearing lots of random and new things. Totally weird. Now Guru Gobind SIngh Ji is into avtarvaad too?

Had hoa gaee. Bolan toa pehlaa soch taa liaa karo.

What does it mean by "Guru Nanak took bhagats from karam khand to sachkhand.?" Bhagats were stuck in karam khand until Guru Nanak started preaching? Could you show me Gurbani quote saying this? Thanks a lot in advance. I can give you quote otherwise. It is below:

ਜੋ ਜੋ ਤਰਿਓ ਪੁਰਾਤਨੁ ਨਵਤਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਪੁਰੁਰਾਤਨੁ ਭਾਇ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਵੇਵਾ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਕੀ ਬੇਨੇਨੰਤੰਤੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ੍ਰਭ ਜੀਉ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੰਤੰਤ ਜਨ ਸੇਵੇਵਾ ॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੨੧੯

It is one thing to say I accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as my Guru, it is another to follow. We all have to look within ourselves to see if we are truly committed to Guru or humans.

This shows that you guys aren't capable of defeating me in debate and have only 1 thing left, indira style, aurangzb style, wazir khan style, dhirmal style, thug activity. You guys are worse than all those if you ask me. Since dhirmal was the worst of all those, that is what you guys are, dhirmalias.