The Khalsa Fauj

Tusee loke yaar roanday he rehnday. Pehlaa kehnday artha karo arth karo, jado arth kartay proper. Fir kehnday laa deo stopper. Yaar arthaa nu samjho. Arths of Garur are taken from Gurbani itself. Get over the ego and realize the wisdom. No need to be jealous of the research provider. Kalyug, tu taa rehnaa he kalyug wich. Teraa taa rubb hee rakhaa. ANyways, I gave arths, if you got issue with it, too bad and so sad. If someone takes time and does khoj and gives arths according to Gurmat, tuhaday chaloonay larran lag paye. If some sant baba did same arths, replies would be like:

"WOW! JUST NEXT LEVEL!"

"I AM AMAZED AT GYAN OF SANT JI"

"I COULD NEVER DO ARTHS LIKE THiS"

You know what, you guys know that the walls of falsehood are shattering and place to hide behind will be no more. Only deravaadis have had problem with these arths. No one else objected. No regular Sikh had any issue.

Some brothers were asking for arths of Garur Chrrai Gobind Aaelaa

ਪਦ ਅਰਥ

ਪਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ), ਹੇਠਾ, ਨੀਵਾ ਭਾਵ ਨੀਵੇ ਪੱਧਰ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ

ਖੰਤਣ – ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨਾ, ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਖਤਨ ਤੋ( ਖੰਤਨ ਹੈ

ਬਾਜ – ਬਗੈਰ

ਬਜਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਗ਼ਲਤੀ, ਭੁੱਲ, ਦੋਸ਼, ਪਾਪ

ਇਲਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ, ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾਂ ਪ੍ਰੰਤੂ ਸਿਵਾਏ

ਆਇਲਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ, ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ ਨਾਂ ਹੋਣਾ (‘ਅ’ ਦੇ ਪਿਛੇਤਰ ‘ਇਲਾ’ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜਦੋ ਆ ਦੇ ਪਿਛੇਤਰ ‘ਇਲਾ’ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਨਾਂਹ ਵਾਚਕ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ)

ਗਰੁੜ –

ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਆਨਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਘਸਿ ਗਰੁੜੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੀਠਾ ॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ 171

ਗਰੁੜੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਉਮੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰੀ ॥1॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ 1260

ਸੋ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਗਰੁੜ ਹੈ

ਚੜ੍‍ੇ – ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੋਣਾ, ਜਿਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੂਰਜ ਚੜੇ ਤਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ – ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੋਣਾ

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਆਇਲਾ – ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ(ਗੋਬਿੰਦ - ਗਯਾਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਣ ਯੋਗ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਮਹਾਨ ਕੋਸ਼)

ਅਰਥ

ਇਹ ਭੁੱਲ ਹੈ, ਹੇਠਲੇ ਪੱਧਰ ਭਾਵ ਛੋਟੇ ਲੈਵਲ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਗ਼ੈਰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ। (ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਇਹ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨਾ ਹੀ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੇ ਮਾਰਗ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ ਹੈ)।

ਨੋਟ – ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਸੂਝ ਲਈ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨੀ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਹੈ; ਨਹੀ ਤਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਣ ਨਹੀਂ। ਇਸ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਨੂੰ ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਰੱਦ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਨਿਰੀ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ ਸੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ।

ਅਪਨੇ ਭਗਤ ਪਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ ਆਏ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥16॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ 1166

ਪਦ ਅਰਥ

ਅਪਨੇ ਭਗਤ – ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਆਪਣੀ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਉੱਪਰ

ਪਰਿ – ਉੱਪਰ

ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ – ਬਖਸ਼ਿਸ਼

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ – ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼

ਗੋਪਾਲ – ਪਾਲਕ ਅਤੇ ਰੱਖਿਅਕ ਖ਼ੁਦਾ

ਅਰਥ

ਜਦੋਂ ਕਿ ਸੱਚ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜੋ ਉਸ ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਦੀ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਉਸ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਆਪਣੀ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਭਾਵ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਸੂਝ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ। ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ ਜਾਂ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਮੰਤਰ ਪੜਨ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ।

If we are going to read translations of markandeya puran as GUrbani, we will be labelled Hindus without a doubt. If we accept these translatiosn as Gurbani, we have no reason to oppose Hindus saying we are an offshoot of Hinduism or a sect of Hinduism. Amee raulee paon daa kee faidaa? Recently, Ashutosh gave challenge again. He said he doesn't call SIkhs anything. He said I am not the one saying Sikhs are children of Luv Kush. He said it was Giani Pooran SIngh and Dasam Granth. Do I need to say more?

Question to INder:

Is ashutosh a pakka Gursikh since he believes in your beloved poet Shyam's Dasam Granth which was originally Bachitter Natak Granth?

Inder:

Devi ustat karee chal. Teri marjee.

Gurbani says though:

Devi Devaa Mool Hai Maayaa

I read Harbans Singh's book. If he were alive, I would have given him live talk option. Too bad he is dead now.

Mithar, instead of relying on Harbans Singh. Rely on own intellect. Think about contents of DG. Understand them and test them on Gurmat principles.

Missionary course varies from 2 years to 6-8 years I think. It isn't only two years. At least they don't give brahmgyani degree in 4 years.

Other than that, we will expose more bhatt vahis later.

Regarding sri gur katha granth, give us original document and we will analyze it. We will test its contents based on GUrmat.

From what I have read, it says only wear 4 colors which is obviously anti-Gurmat. All colors are parvaan in Gurmat. All colors are made by God.

Do simran of God. Ghagga was wrong on his title. He admited his mistake and changed the contents in his book. Check it out online..

GuptSingh is from Europe. Don't make a scene here Inder.

I don't have 20 different locations where I can get internet at.I got only my own IP. Read Guru Granth Sahib Ji with arths to understand what is naam.

Medni is just a word used for earth. It has nothing to do with the mythical story linked to it. Why do you people want to drag Sikh faith into false stories? Do arths of Gurbani according to Gurmat, not by putting on goggles of stories told by Pandits or Brahmanis and kesadhari Brahmans.

Inder, you mentioned Bhatt Vahis. Bhatt Vahis also say that Guru Gobind Rai (Singh) Ji was born in 1662. Do you agree? It also says Sahibzada Ajit Singh married some lady and had a child. Do you agree? You love to hate on Dilgeer but he said some things, which you don't like, based on bhatt vahis.

If these were the banis that were read, why do all rehatnamas and granth say different? Are you aware of that?

We consider literature to be literature and Gurbani to be Gurbani. We don't try to turn literature into Gurbani to make it as authentic as Gurbani.

Inder, you call others dumb but you haven't been able to show me the word Mahakaal being used for GOD in Gurbani. Please show me where it is used for God in Gurbani.

Understand who mahakaal is in DG and then understand who God is in Gurbani. You will know the difference.

Inder:

Why do you treat everyone as me with separate IDs? Do you know that there are countless anti-DG people in the world. They can also access internet. Did you know?

Kam1825:

I answered your questions. Only thing left is arths of a couple of shabads. Arths can't be made available in a day or two. I know what your point is in that shabad. It would be similar to "Meeh Paeaa Parmesur Paaeaa". Also, when I give you arths of that 'Garur Chday' shabad, you will ask for arths of more shabads like that. And we will be having a teekaa here. If you promise to not to continue to ask arths, I won't mind posting arths of a couple of shabads online. I can't promise you to post arths of every shabad you want translated. It is best to get Baldev Singh's book. His next one will be on Sidh Ghost. Then it is arths of bhatt swayas. Arths of several other shabads have already been posted if you want to check them out.

Here is a list of shabads with arths in Baldev Singh's book.

ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਨਾਮਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਉਚਰੈ 1

ਬਾਬਾ ਫਿਰ ਮਕੇ ਗਯਾ 8

ਨਾਮਾ ਛੀਂਬਾ ਆਖੀਐ 10

ਹਸਤ ਖੇਲਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਆਇਆ 12

ਮੋ ਕਉ ਤੂੰ ਨ ਬਿਸਾਰਿ ਤੂ ਨ ਬਿਸਾਰਿ 16

ਪਾੜ ਪੜੋਸਣਿ ਪੂਛਿ ਲੇ ਨਾਮਾ 20

ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਪੂਛੈ ਸੁਨੁ ਬੇ ਨਾਮਾ 28

ਦੂਧੁ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ 52

ਕਰਿ ਅਬਦਾਲੀ ਭੇਸਵਾ 59

ਧਨਿ ਧੰਨਿ ਓ ਰਾਮ ਬੇਨੁ ਬਾਜੈ 64

ਜਉ ਗੁਰਦੇਉ ਸਿਹਜ ਨਿਕਸਾਈ 71

ਭਗਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਜੀ 76

ਨਾ ਤੂ ਆਵਹਿ ਵਸਿ 82

ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਂਧੀ ਭਗਤੁ ਛਡਾਵੈ 84

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਜਮੁ ਡਰਿਓ 86

ਤੇਰੇ ਬੰਕੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਦੰਤ ਰੀਸਾਲਾ 91

ਅਪਨੇ ਛੂਟਨ ਕੋ ਜਤਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ 93

ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ 98

ਮੇਰੀ ਪਟੀਆ ਲਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੋਪਾਲਾ 103

ਆਪੇ ਦੈਤ ਲਾਇ ਦਿਤੇ 112

ਸੰਡਾ ਮਰਕਾ ਜਾਇ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ 117

ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਪਠਾਏ ਪੜਨ ਸਾਲ 122

ਮੇਰੀ ਪਟੀਆ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ 127

ਗੰਗ ਗੁਸਾਇਨਿ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰ 137

ਭੁਜਾ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਭਿਲਾ ਕਰਿ ਡਾਰਿਓ 140

ਰਾਜਨ ਕਉਨੁ ਤੁਮਾਰੈ ਆਵੈ 145

ਨੀਚ ਜਾਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਤਿਆ ਉਤਮ ਪਦਵੀ ਪਾਇ 151

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਈਐ 154

ਆਇਆ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਬਿਦਰ ਦੇ 162

ਅਜਾਮਲ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਕੀਨੀ 174

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ 181

ਅਚੁਤ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ 184

ਪੁਤˆØੀ ਗੰਢੁ ਪਵੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ 202

ਬਿਧਵਾ ਕਸ ਨ ਭਈ ਮਹਤਾਰੀ 209

ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ 214

Kam 1825:

We will get you arths of 1281 shabad some other time.

What point are you trying to make with that shabad though? Are you trying to link it to some myth? Mednee means earth though. However, in that shabad, it is possible that it could mean something related to spiritual upliftment. Will work on that later.

Regarding Bhagat Namdev's shabad, get Gyani's book.

Ya, I have taken pahul. Didn't you see my gatraa in video? Regarding banis in 1699, we don't have solid proof but reliance on rehatnamas. They all say different things. Most logical statement is from Kesar Singh Shibbar in this matter saying Japuji and Anand. Other than that, Panth can redecide on which banis to read.

Why should i send a PM to a retard like you. You were hidden but were expsoed as a retard both in appearance and voice in that video.

Are you a hockey fan? Can you even follow the puck during a hockey game? PM was for hockey pool. Do you even know what a hockey pool is? You got issues with my voice?

Kesadharis are retards? What? You are ghoan moan? What?

International Akali isn't me you fool. That is a different Singh. So is Guru Ka SIkh. He lives in Edmonton. International Akali lives in Brampton. You got issues with International Akali and Guru ka Sikh too?

Maha Singh,

Unfortunately, I don't have XBOX or PS3 to run Modern Warfare 2. I will get XBOX and PS3 in future. We can run some games. I only play sports games though or hunting.

Inder devta:

If you got issues with kala afgana, take them to him. I don't care what kala afgana says or does. He is nothing to me.

Inder, I told you before too. I am not kala or Afgani. I am 100% Punjabi Canadian.

Any hockey fans here? Anyone want to join hockey pool? Send me a PM to get more info.

There is no lie about Prof. Darshan Singh going to Akaal Takht. He did. I have pictures and will upload them to blog later. Inder, you always attack Guru Granth Sahib Ji by saying things like does SGGS, etc. etc. You have no respect for Guru. You only see Dasam Granth in front of you.

Nothing is a lie about the letter. Go ask Rattan Singh Jaggi yourself. Also, feel free to carbon date that letter. Make sure to check based on language and everything. Cancer could hit anyone. Doesn't mean he is bad or evil.

We will translate the pangti later. Don't have time to translate all of Gurbani for you guys at the moment.

Harjan Har Antar Nahee means person takes on the qualities of God such as no hatred, no anger, etc. etc. Person doesn't become God. Person becomes God-like. There is a difference between God and Godly.

I don't use multiple IDs, I don't have time to make new emails and new IDs. The Khalsa Fauj is the only one I use.

You should learn more about Bhai Jarnail Singh and more about Suukha Jindaa too. Jarnail SIngh was a human being like me and you. He wasn't God or Guru to be perfect. Babbu Mann is right about people putting takhtee of God around other people's necks.

Yea, of course Guru Ji gave pahul in 1699. Which banis were recited, I won't comment on that. Which banis to recite now, I won't comment on that.

Garur Khday Goainday Ayelaa is already translated in Gyani Baldev Singh's book. You should buy it and read it. You will get arths of shabads that you will be posting here. I might post arths of these on blog later. I got arths of shabads that you guys post. Gyani's book is available in India and also in Toronto. It just arrived several days ago. I received my copy 2 days ago.

Sikhsangat is a bunch of people who don't know how to run a website. They should rename it to cultsangat because they don't preach Gurmat.

You guys don't even know Gurmat to have a proper debate. Neither do you people understand Gurbani properly. Gurbani isn't understood by spending some time in a dera. You got to khoj to understand Gurbani. Bhed Badeaa Nahee Bujjheaa Paavnaa.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji contains all rass. Don't need third party granthis for biir rass. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Guruship to complete Guru.

How many Sikhs left for jungle after understanding Guru Granth Sahib Ji? I can list many sant babas doing karamkaands and believed in Dasam Granth.

You said my videos don't make sense. They wouldn't make sense if you didn't understand them. Improve your Punjabi and understand them.

Regarding working for RSS, Lamba is welcome to do so. I refuse to join Hindutvaa organizations. I have no care fr 24 avtars or durgaa devi or liqor drinking mahakal. RSS can pray to them.

Regarding Koorh Nikhutay Nanakaa, Orak Sach Rahee.

Inder, do you even know what sach is? Sach isn't delcaring poet shyam to be Guru. Sach isn't declaring poet raam to be Guru. Sach isn't making excuses to promote anti-Gurmat content. Sach isn't trying to break Sikh from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sach isn't making false allegations by saying so and so doesn't believe in naam simran. Sach isn't making false statements saying so and so rejects Khanday kee Pahul. Learn what sach is. Sach isn't false stories of CP.

That pangti has nothing to do with ear wax. Don't make a scene here. Stop bringing in unrelated quotes.

Prof. wanted debate, anti-DG people wanted debate. Who didn't want debate? Clearly it was pro-DG side. They knew there was going to be no chance of ending debate in goondaagardee because that is all you guys got. Jithe shittar disday mohray, othai kuskday nee.

Of course he entered Akaal Takht. When did a separate room made by SGPC become Akaal Takht? Is that what 6th paatshah built? Only person you are fooling is yourself. Which government pays me?

We had his picture there for his political work. Not his Dasam Granth work. Same goes for Sukha Jindaa. Got his picture there for doing sodhaa of vaidiya. Not for having hair cuts before going to jail. Understood and clear? If not, too bad. Why don't you mention Sukha Jindaa? You can't see their pictures? Are you a turk?

Turku is kaanaa, only sees one side.

What are you on about scare and stuff? I don't bed to God to remove fear daily. Guru already removed by fear. I fear God alone. Do you fear God? No, you fear some sant baba who wasn't even smart enough to differentiate between Gurbani and poet rachnas.

Sant baba arths are made up because they are far from Gurmat. They are based on karamkaandi sakhis.

Raagmaalaa isn't my topic. You won't see me write against Raagmaalaa. Raagmaalaa is much better than Charitropakhyan. Also, go to Tapoban Gurduara and call them nasticks. Then we will see how brave you are.

How do you know I wouldn't have said those things in front of Bhai Jarnail Singh? Lets not make things up. Well, DGs are best at that. Poet Shyam has been declared at 10th Nanak. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is no longer 10th Nanak. I don't wear dhoti. I am not a fan of tilak or janju like your DG writer.

Why should I go to India? Am I a slave of dhummaa or sher singh? I will go when I want to go. I roll at my own pace and time.

So you accept dehdharis to be God? I will abide by:

Satgur Mera Sdaa Sdaa Na Aavai Na Jaaye

Oh Abenaasi Purakh Hai Sabh Meh Raheaa Smaaye

Light of God is in everyone. Me, you, your sant baba. Everyone.

Sikhsangat is a bunch of hoodlums. They don't even let you post quotes from Dasam Granth. They delete and ban. What does deleting quotes from DG mean? Means they aren't appropriate. That is all I got to say about Sikhsangat. Looks like you are trying to get N30 to ban me. Hahahaha! What a scene. Sign of a person losing debate. Regarding arths of Gur Isar, Gur Gorakh Barma, Gur Parbatee Maaee, I will prob. upload a short video. You can watch it and get proper Gurmat gyan.

Lamba fauj inder ji,

That letter is fake. Harinder Singh Mehboob did khoj on it. So did Rattan Singh Jaggi. Letter is fake.

You keep doing propaganda of lamba. Tell me which granth is for bavasiir and which one is for face. Find out from Lamba and tell me.

Does Guru granth sahib teach you to lie by putting posters of those who do not endorse your views.

Is that the best cheap shot you could do in that post? What a big scene. You got nothing more than cheap and false shots.

Kam1825,

Watch all the videos. Hari Singh Randhawa left the stage. He bolted from talk. It is very clear. Watch all the parts and read what Prof. Darshan Singh said about the situation. Those who tries to cause issue there were pro DG people. Hari prob. told them to cause issue so he doesn't have to discuss DG in live talk. Either way, Hari Randhawa bolted from DG talk.

I stir Dasam Granth. Do you still abide by your statement?

It is not like Hari Singh won't come to Toronto again. Tell him to bring live talk when he comes.

I clarified about Jarnail Singh and Sukha Jinda before. Don't need to do it again. If you don't even understand simple statement about them, what else do you folks understand?

Arths according to Gurbani seems naastic to you because they go directly against karamkaands spread in Sikh dharam by karamkaandis.

What do you mean in body bag? Jarnail Singh was a badmash who got people killed instead of having proper talks? How many missionaries did he get killed in 80s? Let me tell you, none. You people are the ones who have portrayed him as a terrorist and a thug. Was it people like you who provoked indira to attack Darbar Sahib to remove him? People like you made statements in those days and portrayed him as a gangster. Such utter disrespect of shaheed by anti-Sikh sarkari agents who love third party books.

Get teekaa by Mohinder Singh Josh on Japuji Sahib to understand arths of those shabads. Other than that, you will get proper arths of other pauris of japuji too. Too bad your so called sampadaas weren't able to give you proper arths.

Ask AKJs regarding Raagmaalaa.

Yes, Bhagat bani comes before stamp so it is Gurbani. You got doubts?

Yes, Prehlaad was a bhagat. Sant means gyan, wisdom. Wisdom protected Prehlaad.

Bring live talk of DG, we will discuss Prehlaad too.

Regarding sants:

Raheo Sant Hao Toal Saadh Bahu Tere Dithay

That is all I got to say.

Crap from me? Things backed up by Gurbani are crap? Whatever some dehdhari says is elah abni? What a scene.

Inder:

Inder Ji, kday demaag varat leaa karo. Rub nay vartan nu ditaa. Read it and understand or bring live talk. We will explain where he opposes contents of DG. Understood? I have given you page numbers and everything. If you still can't see, baba nigaa check kraalaa. Number change hoa gia hona.

Inder jehdi teri naam kamaaee keetee CP padkay, oh saanu nee chahee-dee. Too apnay koal rakh.

Regarding myths, Gurbani says:

Pandit Mullaa Jo Likh Deeaa Shaad Chlay Hum Kashoo Na Leeaa. Myths have no meaning in Gurmat. Gurmat is about truth. I will connect with truth, not myths. Since you are a big fan f myths, I am not surprised that you promote Dasam Granth under name of 10th Guru. Just spreading more myths like your Hindu ancestors.

Missionary schools aren't going anywhere.

DTF:

There are no lies. Hari SIngh bolted is clear from videos. Of course we do japuji, that is why we know creation isn't made from ear wax of Vishnu. Not only do we read it, we try to understand it unlike some who matha taik to anything.

There is no fabrication. videos are there. Watch them all, not only Hari Singh one. Regardless, he bolted and refused to talk. Whatever bahana he had, he had. He will be coming to Toronto in 2010, tell him to hold debate.

That show is full of anti-islam and anti-social and anti-Gurmat activities. Lets not get into that stuff. People already do enough bajjar kurehits. Don't need more.

Putting posters of akali dal and sant bhindrewale behind and do false propaganda against dasam Granth

when it is known that sant Bhindrewale was a firm beleiver in Dasam Bani. Does SGGS teaches you that?

I answered before, Bhindrawala became shaheed defending Akaal Takht so I respect him for that. Doesn't mean I agree with everything he did or are you saying he escaped and is hiding in Pakistan or something? Jarnail Singh Ji was part of Damdami Taksal. He learned what he was taught by taksal. Lets not forget that. Other than that, read Nereo Dithe Sant Bhindrawale by Dalbir SIngh Journalist. He gives pretty clear view on the type of person Bhai Jarnail Singh was. He wasn't like the way you people try to portray him. What does saying had he been here imply? Are you people trying to portray him as a thug or terrorist? Who disprespects him? Me or you guys? Answer is clearly you guys. Someone says he fled from Akaal Takht. Another says he wouldn't let anyone speak against DG trying to prove him as a thug or terrorist. What is the agenda from your group? Defame him?

I don't have any intentions of going to India at the moment. Call up Faridabad missionaries for debate. I think they have been looking for a while. I don't have any plans to leave GTA (Greater Toronto Area). Send the challenge to spokesman or something. Even if I agreed to go to India, I wouldn't be able to go in 30 days at all for passport and visa reasons. As for ticket, I won't accept ticket from you guys because that will be immoral. I like to do kirat and use own money. You guys can pay for tickets of Sher Singh and Jodh Singh or something and call them here to Toronto. We will be more than happy to discuss Dasam Granth. We got lots of guys who are willing to discuss DG.

By the way, it would be awesome one day to visit Darbar Sahib, Akaal Takht and Kesgarh Sahib.

Lamba is in New York. He should come to Toronto and explain which granth is for bavasiir and which one is for face. He can also explain through youtube video.

Gurtej Singh isn't a scholar of Dasam Granth. Harjinder Singh is one. It would be best to invite Dalbir Singh Missionary or Faridabaad group or Jaswinder Singh Dubani or someone like that. It would also be cool to come to Toronto. Why did Hari Singh Randhawa leave stage in New York saying Takht says not to discuss DG and then was speaking at DG seminar? What a scene he made of himself.

N30 Ji! Winter isn't boring for me at all. It is time for skating and hockey.

Mithar Ji, I don't need to visit Lamba's website to know what kahan Singh Nabha said. I can read Punjabi and understand it very well. I have both parts of Gurmat Maartund on my side and also have Mahan Kosh. I know what he says very well. Read his Gurmat Maartund and see how he rejects Chandi Chariters and stuff and also Charitropakhyan along with Mahakaal. You will know when you go through videos though. Inder Ji, you should watch the videos too. You will know more about what Kahan Singh nabha said and you will know more about BN.

Bring these guys to Toronto. We accept.

Remember Rsi Valmiki who was a bandit and killer, could not say Rama but had to say Mara, you have to speak on the 'level' to get through sometimes. Also the biggest Kanjars have the biggest potential, like the story of Bhagat Naamdev who wanted to 'do' his wife so much he mistook a snake for a rope and among other things.

What is this story about Bhagat Namdev? I have never it before. Please enlighten. Who wanted to do who's wife?

Regarding Rehras, what is sampooran is what Guru gave us. I don't know when Sikhs became smarter than Guru to declare something sampooran or adhooran.

Sorry, but your argument is on weak ground. Basically you are trying to grasp any straw you can to prove your point. Whether it is puraatan Gianis and Shaheeds or the modern ones, they are all believers in Dasam Granth. Sarbloh granth is a different matter. Not many puraatan and modern scholars have had a chance to study it as they had with Dasam Granth. From the videos I have seen of you, you seem like a good and bhalaa insaan.

I again urge you to come back to the Panth. The Panth is not going to change its stand on Dasam Granth. If anything, thanks to the Kala Afghanists, Panthic scholars/gianis/Amritdhari Singhs have become even more firm and fanatical supporters in Dasam Granth. If you guys had just kept your views to yourself, then maybe you guys would have had some success. But you guys made the same mistake that the Bhasaurias made, you were very vocal and open about your naastik/communist beliefs.

You guys don’t even realise that your whole movement is a GOI plan to confuse and weaken the Sikhs. As long as Sikhs are confused and fighting over Dasam granth, the GOI is just sitting back and laughing at our foolishness.

My arguments are weak? What is weaker than saying pen names? Give me a break. Word kapardan is from Dasam Granth. That is what Kahan Singh is saying about that portion of DG. You saying no one studied Sarabloh, well, Kahan Singh sure studied it enough to expose it in a couple of paragraphs. Same could be said about rest of Dasam Granth and his promotion of word Bhagautee. Other than that, if you had watched the videos, you would have known what Kahan Singh said about Mahakaal and Charitropakhyan. If you like, I can prepare special videos based on what Kahan Singh said about Dasam Granth. I will include both the pro and anti-parts. Do you agree? Let me summarize what he believed.

He believed some writings to be of Guru Gobind SIngh Ji.

He belived most not to be writings of Guru Gobind SIngh Ji.

Why do I say most? 24 avtars and CP are more than 70% of Dasam Granth.

How is that different from what most missionaries preach?

You rejected Mahakaal, Chariters and some other contents. He believed 404 chariters, Krishan Avtar, etc. to be writings of poets as per Pg. 567 of his Gurmat Maartund. Do you agree? Also, what does that mean? That means it isn't Gurbani. Not very hard to understand is it?

True that he tried to prove Bhagautee to be acceptable. If he supported some section, it doesn't mean he supported everything else. Even Prof. Darshan Singh accepts Bhagautee. Does it mean he accepts all of Dasam Granth? I know I am bhalaa person, you should become one too. It be best to come clean and accept that Kahan Singh Nabhaa believed most of DG not to be written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

I don't know who Sikh answers is. But he writes to you:

Here is what Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha writes in Gurmat Martand part 2 on page 567

ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ

ਸਾਹਿਬ-ਲੋਕ ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਸੰਖੇਪ ਨਾਮ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਹੈ, ਉਸਦੀ ਅਸਲਿਯਤ ਇਹ ਹੈ-ਕਾਵਯ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ਼ਾਂਤ ਵੀਰ ਰਸ ਆਦਿਕ ਰਸ ਪੂਰਤ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਰਚਨਾ ਆਪ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਅਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਦਰਬਾਰੀ 52 ਕਵੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਨਿਰੰਤਰ ਲਿਖਵਾਇਆਂ ਕਰਦੇ ਸਨ…ਸੰਮਤ 1778 ਵਿਚ ਮਾਤਾ ਸੁੰਦਰੀ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੂੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਦੇ ਦਰਬਾਰ ਹਰਿਮੰਦਰ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਥਾਪਿਆ, ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਉਤਮ ਰੀਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਨਿਭਾਹੀ ਅਰ ਇਸ ਸਮੇ ਕਈ ਪੁਸਤਕ ਲਿਖੇ…ਇਸਤੋਂ ਭਿੰਨ ਇਕ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਸਾਗਰ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਕੁਛ ਭਾਗ,ਜੋ ਯਤਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਕਵੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਹੱਥ ਲੱਗ ਸਕੇ ਏਕੱਤਰ ਕੀਤੇ… ਦਸਮੇਸ਼ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਵਤਾਰਾਦਿਕ ਦੀ ਕਥਾ ਵਿਚ ਕਿਤੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਕਰ ਦੇਂਦੇ ਸਨ, ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਟਪਲਾ ਨਾ ਲੱਗੇ; ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾਵਤਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਇਹ ਚੌਪਈ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਫ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ-‘ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਧਿਆਊਂ’॥ ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਰਾਮਾਵਤਾਰ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਪਾਠ ਹੈ-‘ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਅਰ ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਥਾ ਦੇ ਮੁੱਢ ਆਪਣੀ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਭੁਮਿਕਾ ਲਿਖ ਕੇ ਹੋਰ ਭੀ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ-‘ਜੋ ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ॥ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ! ਤਿਨਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ’॥…ਭਾਵੇਂ ਬੀੜਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਮੁਖ ਦੋ ਹੀ ਹਨ-ਇਕ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਮ ਭਾਈ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਵਾਲੀ ਭੀ ਹੈ*, ਦੂਜੀ ਭਾਈ ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਖਾਸ ਬੀੜ ਭੀ ਸੱਦਦੇ ਹਨ। *ਕਿਉਂ ਕਿ ਬਾਬਾ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਈ ਕਾਪੀਆਂ ਕਰਾਈਆਂ ਸਨ”।

Regarding Bhagauti, one can read steek of Chandi Di Vaar written by him. It leaves no doubt that he believed in Dasam Granth. His son Bhagwant Singh spent 30 years studying Dasam Granth and wrote two important books.

I cant find the article on the internet but Amarjeet Singh Khosa provides quotes from Sahib Singh's own writes which leaves no doubt that Prof Sahib Singh was a firm beleiver in Dasam Granth. The burdan of proof is on you the Kala Afghanists to prove from Sahib Singh's own writes that he did not beleive in Dasam Granth Banis (or part of it). All you guys have is 1 or 2 old farts claiming they knew him and he told them (that's not proof). I have seen Kala Afghanists using lies to prove their point before. I have no reason to beleive them now unless they can provide proof from Sahib Singh's own writings.

Honestly, I pray for you that one day Guru Jee's shows you the truth about Dasam Bani. You need to think with an open mind. You have already made up your mind on Dasam Granth which all Shaheeds and Sikh vidvaans of the past believed in.

BTW, is that you in the black dastar in those videos? just curious

Why don't you post the whole thing? Why not post the rest where he speaks of poets and stuff? How about posting what he says for word kapardan? You only read what fits your mindset? How about the scans discussed in videos from Gurmat maartund? Do you agree with those?

How about what he writes about sarabloh granth? Do you agree?

ਕਪਰਦੀ

. * ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਾਮਕ੍ਰਿਨ ਦਾ ਰਚਿਆ ''ਭਗਵਤੀ ਪਦ ਪੁਪਾਂਜਲਿ ਸਤੋਤ੍ਰ'' ਬਹੁਤ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ੩੦ ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਛੰਦ ਹਨ ਇਸੇ ਦਾ ਸਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੁਵਾਦ ੨੦. ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਛੰਦਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਇਹ ਅਕਾਲਉਸਤਤਿ ਦਾ ਪਾਠ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਲੇਖਕਪ੍ਰਮਾਦ ਨਾਲ ਦੂਜੇ ਚੰਡੀਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਗਿਆ. ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਗਾਨ ਹਿਤ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਅਸਤੋਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੁਝ ਪਾਠ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਹਾਂ-

ਸਰਬਲੋਹ

ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਦੰਥਾ.'' ... ਪੰਡਿਤ ਤਾਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਖੋਜ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਭਾਈ ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਪਟਨੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਸੀ. ਉਸ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜਗੰਨਾਥ ਦੀ ਝਾੜੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਇੱਕ ਅਵਧੂਤ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਤੋਂ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ.

ਅਸੀਂ ਭੀ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਨੂੰ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਮੰਨਣ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਰੂਪਦੀਪ ਭਾ ਪਿੰਗਲ ਦਾ ਜਿਕਰ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ. ਰੂਪਦੀਪ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੭੭੬ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ, ਅਤੇ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੭੬੫ ਵਿੱਚ ਜੋਤੀਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਏ ਹਨ, ਅਤੇ ਜੇ ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ਅਤੇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਪੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੁਤਾ ਦਾ ਜਿਕਰ ਕਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਆ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ? ਜੇ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਿੱਛੋਂ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਦਾਸ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ, ਸ਼ਾਹ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਮ ਕਿਉਂ?

ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਭੀ ਆਣ ਲਿਖਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਅਨਗਹਲੀ ਨਾਲ ਉਤਨਾ ਹੀ ਅਸ਼ੁੱਧ ਹੈ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਕਿ ਦਸਮਗ੍ਰੰਥ. ਗਯੰਦ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਨਇੰਦ, ਓਪ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਵੋਪ, ਸਾਮਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਸਮਾਕਰਨ, ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁੰਗੀ, ਵਖਟਕਾਰ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਬਖਤਕਾਰ, ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਨਿਧਾ ਆਦਿਕ ਸੈਂਕੜੇ ਪਾਠ ਵਿਗਾੜੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ.

What does that say?

Anything other than abuses?

Is this what DG teaches you?

Talking about half truths. Saying poet names are pen names is far from 1% truth. Forget about half truth or half lies. By saying anti-DG people got half truth, do you mean they are 50% right?

I remember a member on this forum named Sikh answers providing quotes from Gurmat Martand proving Kahn Singh Nabha believing in Dasam Granth. As for Sahib Singh, he also was a believer in Dasam Granth bani especially the Nitnemi dasam banis. I know what Kala Afghanists claim (without any proof from his writing), but sorry to say looking at the track record of the Kala Afghanists which are full of lies and half truths I cannot take their word on what Sahib Singh thought. Proof is in the writing of Sahib Singh, not what Kala Afghanists claim he thought. Read the article “Prof Sahib Singh Dasmesh Bani Bare” by Amarjit Singh Khosa who quotes from Prof Sahib Singh Jee’s own writing to prove he believed in Dasam Bani including Choupi

I think the reason you Kala Afghanists like to hide behind great names is because you don’t have any of your own to hide behind. It is sort of like how Hindus will always claim Sikh history as their own since they don’t have any great Shaheeds, Saint soldiers of their own to be proud of during the Mughal period.

Where does kala afgana come from? I haven't even read his books. You want to talk about hiding behind names? How about sometimes hiding behind Baba Deep Singh's name and soemtimes Bhai Mani Singh's name? I don't need to hide behind anyone's name. I rely on Gurmat. Kahan Singh Nabha did what he did. Sikh Answers is none other than Bijla. Tell him to come live talk and we will discuss DG and see what Kahan Singh Nabha said about it. Read the pages yourself or go through the videos. Pages from Kahan Singh Nabha were discussed.

It is true that people like Sahib Singh and Kahan SIngh Nabha didn't oppose all of Dasam Granth. They opposed many contents of it. This isn't something new or not known. Deravadis only got Bhai Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala to hide behind. I take support of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and give Gurbani quotes to expose DG. Rely on Guru and we will get to same page soon.

Come back to the Panth bro. Stop following the nonsense of these bemukhs who've infected the panth. You've been led astray from your Guru. Saying I follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji and then ridiculing, using vulgur language for Dasam Bani...brother, Guru is not going to be happy with you. Follow the path of our puratam great shaheeds, warriors,vidhvaans, gurmukhs...and come back to the Khalsa Fauj. As long as you oppose Dasam Patshah's Bani, you'll be an outcast, to put it mildly. Start now and beg Dasmesh Patshah to forgive you...you don't wanna die having done nindyia all your life of Kalgidhar's Bir Rass Bani.

Go to Paonta Sahib and stay there for a month, or whatever time, doing seva and reciting Gurbani. Ask Dashmesh Patshah to show you the truth.

But....whatever is in your destiny....remember, even nindaks are nindaks because that's the duty they've been assigned. Only way to change is to rub your forehead infront of maharaj to change your bad karams.

Did you get darshan of 10th paatshah telling you to promote DG? How do you know 10th paatshah didn't tell me to oppose DG? Lets not assume things based on what some baba told you. How am I an outcast by following Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Get darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and find out. I know what Guru Ji told me to do. Otherwise, why would I spend time opposing DG here? I don't get anything other than abuses from you brothers. Take out some time, come to Toronto, we can go through all of DG and understand what the poets are talking about. I am sure you will understand what is going on and why things seem the way they are. I will not say this is wrong or that is wrong. You will do it yourself. I will just try to get you brothers thinking. Unfortunately, that can't be done here because DG is huge. We can also discuss about Paonta. Please just read DG once from start to finish after understanding basic concepts of Gurmat. You will be saying the same thing. You don't have to believe me, you just have to believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Kahan Singh Nabha made comments about DG in his Gurmat Maartund. Please read those to see that contents of DG were opposed by him too.

Are we gaining anything with this discussion?

Not really. Chaa pooraa karan nu namee ptaaree khuldee rehndee.