unbreakable

Hello

This is a subject matter which I would like some clarification on.

I was watching a program on Sikh Channel, called Youth Special about 1984.

There was a Sikh (wore a dastar like Dhandrianwala), who said that the Sant Attar Singh Mastuana Wale was the first Sikh who was given the Sant title from the Akaal Takht. I don't know how true this is, as I have not researched this.

but, my main question, is that, is there a record of which title is given to which person, on a specific date?

Do they keep a record?

I read about Khem Singh Bedi who claimed that he was a descendant of Guru Nanak. But after talking to a few learned people, he could never prove it. He was bought forward by, some claim the british, who wanted to "control" the Sikhs.

I also found that Amitabh bachan's wife is the granddaughter of Khem Singh.

I would like to find out if some people can reveal people who are from one of the Gurus family.

Yogi Bhajan (Harbhaja Singh Puri), claimed that he was a former Prince in Panjab who left everything behind. He also claims, well now his wife does too that her mother is a is a "direct" descendant of Guru Nanak Dev.

Here is what she writes in her facebook. Although I believe she never wrote this, her PR machine did.

A Brief Autobiography

Bhai Sahiba Bibiji Inderjit Kaur Khalsa, PhD

My Life in India

I was born on January 22, 1935 in Wazirabad, Gujrawala District, in what was then India and is now West Pakistan. My father was Bhai Sahib Kartar Singh Uppal and my mother was Sardarni Rawal Kaur Uppal. Both of my parents were descended from historical Sikh families. My mother traces her lineage directly to Guru Nanak. My father’s family is descended from Bhai Sahib Abnasha Singh, a Sikh saint during the time when Maharajaha Ranjit Singh was a child. As a small boy, he had contracted small pox, and his parents brought him to Bhai Sahib Abnasha Singh in Wazirabad for healing. Later, there was a Gurdwara built in Wazirabad to commemorate that place where Bhai Sahib Abnasha Singh used to meditate. In gratitude for the healing of Maharajah Ranjit Singh, seven villages offered as gifts to Bhai Sahib Abnasha Singh. General Hari Singh Nalwa, the steel willed lieutenant of Maharajah Ranjit Singh, was also an ancestor of my father. When I was a child, the street on which we lived was named Bhai Sahib’s Mohalla (Bhai Sahib’s street) in honor of my father’s family. A few years ago I traveled back to Pakistan to visit my childhood home and the land of my Sikh family for many generations. Gratefully, as I toured the area—while almost everything in our town had changed—the street where I grew up was still named Bhai Sahib’s Mohalla! The Muslim families who lived there showed me the room, which was our Gurdwara and was where Bhai Sahib Abnasha Singh had meditated. To this day, they have maintained the sovereignty of that sacred space.

The title of Bhai Sahib had been bestowed upon my father and his father and his father, before him, for many generations. I understood the responsibilities of the Bhai Sahib, which my father had to the Sikh families in our region. As such, when I was bestowed with the title of Bhai Sahiba of the Western Hemisphere by my husband, the Siri Singh Sahib, and the Khalsa Council of Sikh Dharma of the West, I understood the importance and the responsibilities of this position. I knew it was a great honor and considered it my destiny to continue this seva which my family had always fulfilled. In 2004, I was blessed again with the honor of a proclamation letter from the Akal Takhat, which acknowledged and confirmed my position as a Bhai Sahiba

It seems to me that people who claim to be descendants of great historical personalities only brag about these claims so that they can command respect and reverence. Problem is, that most people get sucked in.

maybe Sikhs in those days were just bothered about establishing a connection with vaheguru, rather than becoming gianis?

everything you need is in gurbani, isn't that enough?

no offense, just questions

how does this affect the life of a Sikh?

I think its more metaphorical than an actual kavach

in the end, everything happens according to hukam

Hello,

I wanted to know if there are any decendants of the Sikh Gurus?

As in, their sons or daughters, etc.

Furthermore.

How relevant is this when taking Gurbani into consideration?

Do they, if any exist at all, command automatic respect and allegence?

Thanks

ps. sorry about any spelling mistakes

I believe it was a Maharaja Bhupinder Singh who said to Ambedkar that he could marry his own sister.

But I believe Ghandi and Nehru foiled this, as it would ruin their plans for destroying Panjab

Master Tara singh was another numpty who was a hindu at heart. He did make a mistake, it was calculated.

and now, the Sikhs are forever stuck, fighting amongst themselves, the faith of Guru Nanak has been hijacked and is slowly being disassembled and will be swallowed up just like bhuddism and jainism has been...

This TV Advert is brilliant.

First time I have seen Panjabi used in a TV AD here in the UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5FBdZJ8ss

Brilliant.

Did'n the Nihangs also pre-exede the Khalsa Panth?

Of course they did. Come on Amardeep, get with it dude

interesting thread.....

Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually split the Panth into four? Did he actually say that there is a trinity of the Guru, Ad Guru Granth, Dasam Granth and Sarbhloh Granth...

so many questions, about "Snatan Sikhi" and what some folks nowadays call "mainstream" Sikhism (or some naughty people call British created Sikhism)...

No they don't have different satguru but big question is why they came into existence? I am sure Guru gobind singh ji gave only 1 Rehat then how so many rehats got divided?

interesting.....there is such a void in sikh history, that its impossible to complete. you have the so called "sampardayas", who are too infiltrated by evil individusls, who claim they hold the "secret" truth. To me, its just a label people use to promote themselves, to gain access to your maya, i.e. hard earned cash. Which leaves me baffled as to why did Sat Guru Nanak Dev ji said, Naam Jap, KIRAT KAR and Vand Shak.....

I guess these are only guidelines, as Captain Barbossa said in Pirates of the caribean.

I agree with you that path of goodness is very difficult ,but is it more difficult than fighting muslims in 18th century? Why can't we accept that we all are just good in talking and none of us are good enough to fight

I would say, Dharam. We just need to do Sat Karam and not think about the results. Waheguru will take care of the results.

I don't believe the Khalsa Sikhs was fighting the Muslims, they were, in my opinion fighting against adharami people. They can be evil muslims, sikhs, hindus and others...

I have come to the conclusion, that for me to live a truthful life, I must follow the three basic examples of SatGuru Nanak Dev Ji, Naam Japna, Kirat Karna and Vandkey Shakna...

now don't get me started on how people have twisted these three truths...

Panth vassey mein Ujaran

vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji fateh

I just hope I have the strength to follow these through when the time comes...

We do have puratan rehats which differ from each other Bhai nand lal,bhai daya singh,Desa singh etc so it looks from puratan times sikhs don't have standardised version of do'es and don'ts

Yes they are corrupt but look at an average Sikh,is he not corrupt ,then how could he/she expect that their leaders to be non corrupt[

For this honest people need to more work and less talking.99.99% of people just care about their lives whether in India or outside it ,career,money good life is their only aim .Is it any wonder that only which are corrupt left to take charge of Gurdwara's

Do those puratan rehats also have a different SatGuru? How different are these puratan rehats?

How do these old rehats differ from the Khalsa Rehat?

Well, that is a given, corrupt people will produce corrupt leaders and the good people have no support.

Honest and good people do do more work, but in my experience, they don't get much support, not even from their own peers. Yes, people do care more about material goods. Its the reversal of what Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, Panth Vassey, Mai Ujaran.

her "come september" speech is amazing.

the way she weaves words together, beautiful..

get your minds out of the gutter....

this baba has links with every body , somewhere some congress MPs have supported , some bjp , some muslim, christians and even apne...the protest had apne support too, if u look at the videos there is a kirpan wearing lady covering him from the police, the Bangla Sahib GURDWARA had given them support and shelter.

he has time and again said that yoga doesnt belong to one religion.

Check out the police brutality on you tube videos, i would want to see this man turn into another Sant ji to answer back the indian govt.

you are comparing ramdev to Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh? (thats what I am guessing otherwise who is this Sant ji).

I doubt ramdev and his followers will be declared terrorist by the hindustani government and have the army called in to remove him.

and when did I say Yoga belonged to Hinduism? come on stop twisting my words...

He has already done good work by teaching people Yoga ,selling cheap ayurvedic medicines,Yes he has links with RSS but that does not mean he is communal person

Exageration ,Officially muslims are 13.4% unofficially they could be around 18-20% .Anyway the entire world is worries about increasing number of muslims not just Hindu's.

Police in Delhi is controlled by Center why will they support Ramdev,he is raising issue of black money again and again I don't think corporates ,filmstars ,mafia will like it.Also elections are 3 years away no reason to raise this issue now ,people have short memory they will even forget baba after 3 years

Exageration, could have been, I was reading the tribune in India last year. I wouldn't know what the official figures are.

Obviously police in Delhi is controlled by the Center, its a given. What is interesting is that when there was a Sikh peaceful protest in the same ramlila ground in delhi, 3 sikhs were shot dead by the police. I guess being a hindu has its perks eh.

from what I saw on the news, he is talk about 300 billion dollars worth of black money being in swiss accounts.

what baba doesn't know is that you cannot ever stamp out black money or curruption, for that alot of people have to wiped out, economic systems need to be changed, etc social values of people have to readdressed...

don't forget the IMF, World Bank, etc UN, NATO, one of the most corrupt agenies in the world today.

this is a good publicity stunt.

yes he is a good yoga teacher and he does it well.

Like i said before, I will wait for the final verdict on this...

Sects exists in all religions.They all have different practices and beliefs the only problem with sikhs is that each and every follower of sect believe that his/her version is the true one and in order to justify it he.she attacks the other sect.

To solve disputed matters only Akal takht has authority but whenever something goes against the belief of a follower of sect then he become the first person to say "who is Akal Takht my sect is right"

what sikhs need to accept diversity and authority of Akal takht over disputed matters

I agree with you in principle, but its more complicated than that and you know it. (which basically means I disagree)

Why do sects come about? difference of opinions? Who creates them? Corrupt individuals? evil governments (this is a topic in itself)

Who created the AKJ's? Taksalis (aparently they are a sect now), Snatan Sikhs, Orthodox Sikhs, etc.

forgive me for saying, but when the very people who are at the seat of the Akaal Takht (now) are corrupt individuals, or puppets of a greater corrupt master, then what type of authority is there left to be respected?

Sikhi has been hijacked from top to bottom, believe it or not, its done and the people in charge cannot be touched., yet.

The system of Guru Panth or Khalsa Panth and Akaal Takht has been hijacked, for this is where the power to make amendments to the Sikh faith lay. If you control the system, you control the people, their thoughts, etc.

We must not aim for Sikh Raj. We must seek Khalsa Raj, for a Sikh who doesn't become a Khalsa is a failed Sikh and becoming Khalsa is the ultimate goal, in theory anyway.

if I am wrong, please please please correct me, I am sure many here will

I will stand by my negative comments, until he proves them wrong

he is nothing but a show man, a hindu extremist who supports the construction of the ram mandir in ayodya. the hindus, rss, shiv sena, etc are worried that their muslim brothers and sisters are GROWING in numbers,, they make up 30% of the population and some predictions are that by 2050 they will be around 50% or more, out numbering their Hindu brothers and sisters....remember there are mor muslims in India than in Pakistan....

all this hunger strike and the police coming to get him, is nothing but pure 100% Publicity for his run for the election. Oh look a poor righteous man trying to SAVE INDIA.....

Rubbish, the way India is run, corruption is in their blood so to speak.

this is a country where people become religious to make money, where sadhus have billion pound empires....(abit like in america)...

when was religion never a business?

remember those families that were mysteriously killed by, allegedly by mayawati to make way for a highway, well the upcoming "prince" rahul ghandi the "peoples politcian", the next Prime Minister of India is supporting an investigation and will "make sure" that the familes affected will get "justice".

Some people say those familes were sacrificed to promote him as a modern day Ram Chander, the peoples friend...

this is all a scam a fraud...

he will side with the BJP to form a coalition government if he runs that is...

When you think about how small a percentage of the brain is used, even by 'geniuses', I wonder what a fully active and connected brain is capable of....

Its said that by doing meditation properly and actively and refraining from eating junk food which pollutes your body, etc. Parts of your dormant mind fire up.

I can't remember it correctly, so don't quote me. Ages ago I read this article on a french guy who went to India during the time when the british had taken panjab, he met a swami who could go into the samadi state at will. he recorded elevated, increased high level electrical activity in the brain, i believe the brain waves switch from beta wave to gamma wave at 40hz (full range is 25hz to 200hz) (some buddhist monks have been monitored and have shown to go upto 40hz)

there is documentation and evidence to suggest that the british and other powers had been researching this for a long time, say 100 years (documented) and I would say more. The indians are not the only people who have the samadi experience....

look up hank wesselman who volunteered to be tested, he went into the samadi state at will over 13 times. he now is a spiritual healer

wasn't it the infamous british who introduced tea or chai to India by bringing plants in from China???

anybody tried laachi vala dodh?

In theory we first must decide where we stand spiritually in this world. This self declaration is a huge step.

Do we believe or don't we!!!!

We should first decide is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji our Guru or Not? Or is it a Trinity (Ad Granth, Sarbloh Granth and Dasam Granth)

We should clear up the issue of raagmala

We should clear up the issue of meat, slaughting goats in the name of Waheguru or Shasters and then call it "tradition"...

We should clear up issue of panj kakkars

We should stop discriminating

I can go on and on.

Of course this will never happen, as Utopia is only a theory.

in practice, once we decide who our SatGuru is, spend time reading, listening, discussing gurbani and understand who we really are, then the rest of the issues will be resolved...

We must not blame on everything on "kaljug", thats not the solution. Solution is affirmative action towards self cleaning..

now in a age where there were no digi cams and camcoders what ever has been documented can be the only proof ..either belive it or leave it

Excellent reply, a good way to get out of a discussion. Next time if you don't know, just say so, admit to the fact that you simply don't know.

I shall wait for a reply from the older members on this forum, if they are still around....

Haha.....here is a havan taking place to honour shivji/rudra. We just replace the mantras with our those from SGGS and D/G or SL/G.

Well obviously they would do this, the replacement of mantras with your own is a given.

BUT now here is my question, rephrased? What proof is there that Guru Gobind Singh Ji done this?

Apart feom the usual hearsay, rumour, odd book written by a so called figure in history, or even claims by some of these historical traditional Sikh traditions...

What proof is there, by way of admission from the Guru that a Havan was done? or that he used to do a Havan?

Could somebody answer my questions (see above).......instead of practising the usual "avoid the question attitude"....(no offense intended) This is mainly for Zulu the Moderator...

and this happens in our GREAT pUnjab

Shame on us

After the creation of the Khalsa, Guru Gobind Singhji did a havan.....

singhs before major battle's did havans....

I think on manglacharan there was a few lines regarding havans or something, I am really busy at the moment so dont have time to find it.

maybe you can try lookign through the site and try to find the relevant bit's

http://www.manglacharan.com/

What is a "havan"? Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji do this? What is the revelance of doing this?

Thanks