kdsingh80

I wasnt talking about single sex units, but a full mix. If a woman can pass all the physical tests and is a real patriot and wants to shoot the enemies of her nation, I dont really see the problem. We men need to get off our high horses and treating women like delicate little flowers. They are our equals, and should have the same opportunities as us men.

Even if a unit is mix and it is captured by brutal enemies then first thing they will do is to rape the

enemy women for fun,pleasure and to humilate the enemies.

Equality does not mean that they do things which men then they are equal.as far as physical standards are concerned women can hardly match the physical standard of men ,that's why we don't have unisex sports.An army has to lower its standard for women.

I think any progressive state will have to allow women to serve on the frontlines.

Do you really think that women should be allowed to serve on the frontline? Developed countries like USA can do it because they have very advanced weapons but what about countries like India.If a regiment of Indian women soldiers is captured by brutal jihadi 's

then one can expect that they will become their sexual slave's

A Delhi [ Images ] court on Wednesday issued a non-bailable warrant against Congress leader Sajjan Kumar in connection with the 1984 anti-Sikh riots case for not appearing in court.

Kumar was to appear in the Karkardooma court around 1500 hrs on Wednesday as he was to appear before an additional chief metropolitan magistrate on summons issued by the court on February 1 after taking cognisance of the charge-sheets in the two cases filed by the Central Bureau of Investigation. The special CBI court has asked Kumar to be present in the hearing by February 23.Meanwhile, the Delhi High Court on Wednesday refused to grant anticipatory bail to Kumar.

Sajjan Kumar had moved the Delhi High Court on Tuesday seeking anticipatory bail in two separate 1984 anti-Sikh riots cases.The bail application was listed for hearing before Justice Madan B Lokur, who adjourned it to Wednesday, rejecting Kumar's plea for taking it up for hearing right away as it was 'an urgenct matter' .

Kumar sought bail submitting that he had earlier been granted anticipatory bail in other anti-Sikh riots cases by the trial court.

The west is experimenting men and women soldiers side by side so these kind of things are going to happen.

The soldiers of all countries are known for cruelities,

rapes plundering.One cannot expect high character from soldiers

Do you honestly think that there is any chance that any money currently being spent on arms would have reached the needy, if weapons weren't being purchased? Maybe I'm too jaded?

GOI already admitted that for every 1 rupee they spend on poor people only 10 paise actually reach to people

so Its true that there is widespread corruption but still something reaches to people.so the lesser the military budget the more money will reach to people.

What I want to know is, what are the plans for the slums?

I exactly don't know what are plans for slums but as I mentioned slums are products of industry and with widepspread poverty in India people will continue to move to cities where there is work and will create more slums.so only solution is start some development in most backward areas O/W slums will remain in all cities of India

Also you're not getting it. Countries need a strong military, especially in volatile regions. If the west bodges up its Af-Pak war, there are likely to be serious reprecussions in India afterwards. A part of the profit from development needs to go to defence. I just hope India isn't simply buying old crap.

I do agree that countries do need a strong military but best thing is they should have technology to develop their own weapons and not to import billions of Dollars weapons.Seriously a lot of money is spent on waste things like purchasing an old Russian warship Gorshkov which cost India billions of $.Also my point of view is not limited to India only.What I am saying is that a very large amount is spent on these scientifically advanced weapons by undeveloped and developing countries and Direct benefit of this goes to USA ,Russia and european countries.Seriously if Tomorrow USA Give 100 of these type of Robots to Pakistan as a Gift then India have no option but also to purchase robots or their anti technology .Then pakistan will move another step will purchase more robots .so in long run who will win this rat race ,no one Only America and their allies will benefit from all this

The problem is that what you are doing is looking around and not focusing on an independent plan at progression. If we look around we will always find excuses or a rationale to accept things. If India is every to become truly great, it has to develop the confidence to carve its own way forward regardless of what others are doing. It has to use its own imagination and innovation.

The problems of India are not so small they are huge

The present day India and Pakistan are nothing but British gifted territories to Nehru and Jinnah.people of north India hardly know about south India or north east India.moreover there are regional conflicts.we are already seeing marathi vs UP bihari in bombay.So governing India is not so easy

Anyway my point is this whole discussion was that scientifically devloped countries have sold and still selling billions of $ weapons to Asia,africa and other countries.The money that these poor region could have utilised in providing food,education and healthcare facilities to its people.So the more the scientific

development of weapon system happens the more developing countries will suffer

Mu point is that you need to be able to protect what you have gained especially with the type of neighbours India has. But India has other problems like a lack of shame and an ingrained inhumanity towards its own poor

Which under developed or developing country has humanity towards its poor.Everybody talks about china

as economic power but there are lot of reports coming

how brutal exploitation of workers going on there

India is the essence of duality as we can see by contrasting its movie industry with the slums that lay on its doorstep.

It is because of these slums movie and other industry get cheap workers Just shift either of one industry/slums and the other will automatically shift itself.

Cheap labour and exploitation of workers is one of the main reason of huge economic success of China.

In any case India might have the technology but I doubt she has the heart or knowhow of how to actually use it effectively - push comes to shove

I don't think India have the technology.India still cannot produce its fighter jets and they are placing their billion of $ contact to import jets

I wonder sometimes that how much will be the cost to live as human? Is it possible for super power countries to leave their ego and spend money to make this world little bit better? They are finding new technology to destroy and if they find technology to built?

The new technology,science only helps developed countries mainly USA.Look at the defence budget of countries like India they are in thousand billions.The cost of maintaining jets,missiles is huge.

On the other hand poor people of india are suffering because Government Don't have funds.so what's the point of these new technologies which make people suffer and die indirectly

The Delhi [ Images ] high court on Monday directed the lower court to complete the trial of all pending cases related to the 1984 anti-Sikh riots, including those against Congress leaders Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tytler, within six months.

"We direct that the trial will be conducted as expeditiously as possible and will be completed within six months," a bench headed by Chief Justice A P Shah said.

Within a week after being pulled up for being insensitive in handling riot cases as 'routine' exercises and for not appointing senior advocates to handle them, the Central Bureau of Investigation and the Delhi government appointed special public prosecutors for them, on the line of post-Godhra riot cases in Gujarat.

The investigating agency and the government informed the bench that they have appointed senior advocates as public prosecutors to handle the cases of 1984 riots, in which more than 2700 people were killed.

There are four cases pending in the trial court, out of which two relating to Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tytler are being handled by the CBI and the other two by the Delhi police. The advocate appearing for CBI submitted that senior advocate R S Cheema and advocate Y K Saxena have been appointed as special public prosecutor to handle trial court cases while Additional Solicitor General A S Chandhiok will be handling 1984 riots cases in the high court.

Similarly, the Delhi government submitted that senior advocate B S Joon will be handling its trial court cases while senior advocate H J S Ahluwalia will handle cases pending in the high court.

What is the cost of Each robot? If army of robots can bankrupt a country and then there will be so much other problems from which people started to suffer or die, then robots are useless

Pandwa Ravidass dera followers ignores Dera Sachkhand Ballan directive

Punjab Newsline Network

Saturday, 06 February 2010

By Sameer Kaura

Paid obeisance before Shri Guru Granth Sahib

PHAGWARA: Outrightly ignoring the directives of Jalandhar based Dera Sachkhand Ballan to severe ties with Sikhs, hundreds of followers of Dera Baba Hans Raj ji Pandwa paid their obeisance before Shri Guru Granth Sahib and organized a religious congregation in nearby village Pandhwan which was largly attended by the dera followers.

Congregation was addressed by Shiromani Gurdwara Parbhandhak Committee President Jathedar Avtar Singh Makkar, Sant Mahinder Dass Pandhwa, Sant Nirmal Dass Rasulpur, Sant Sarwan Dass Ludhiana, and Sant Tehal Dass of Nangal late last night.

SGPC President Jathedar Makkar who arrived in Dera at about 9.45 PM on Thursday night, appealed to the people to follow the path and inspirations cum teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji and work for the strengthening of the society. He said that some anti-panth forces were actively working to divide the Sikhs and Ravidassi Community, but their malafied intentions could not be succeeded as the teaching of Guru Granth Sahib did not allow for the destruction of the society, but it wanted Unity among all sections of the society.

Almost all Speakers expressed their determination to maintain maryada of Guru Granth Sahib and strongly said that designs to divide the communities would not be fulfilled and they will continue with the practice holy book of Guru Granth Sahib as the decision to remove Guru Granth sahib from the Deras taken by Dera Ballan could not be imposed upon entire ravidass community.

Meanwhile Phagwara Police has made elaborate security arrangements to prevent any untoward incident, said Phagwara DSP Harkamalpreet Singh Khakh. He admitted that additional police force was also sought for Phagwara sub division. On the other hand SSP Kapurthala Ram singh and SP(HQ) chaman Lal were also camping in Phagwara and monitored the law and order situation.When contacted SSP hesitated and refused to comment upon the prevailing situation. The Tribune correspondent has observed that Phagwara Sub division was on a boiling point as per previous experiences and the rampant violence after Vienna episode was seen by the people who witnessed dozens of vehicles stting on fire by the protesters

You can thank the Punjabi Jatts for this. Now Punjabi Chamars only want to read Bani of Bhagat Ravidass just because he was a Chamar by profession. Soon the Kabir Panthis will do the same. Brahmins still have a strong hold on Punjabi Sikhs.

Before commenting on any thread First read what is posted.The news is that 150 dalit Deras have rejected move by Dera ballan of creating a new religion and moving Guru granth sahib

Jalandhar-based Dera Sachkhand Ballan's directive to sever ties with Sikhs, the Sri Guru Ravidas Sadhu Sampardaye Society -- a conglomerate of more than 150 Dalit deras of Punjab -- on Tuesday rejected outright the newly founded "Ravidassia Dharam".

While condemning Dera Sachkhand's attempt to create a new faith out of the Ravidassia sect, the society also announced it would continue with the practice of following the Sikh holy book, Guru Granth Sahib.

The society, at its executive committee meeting held at Dera Babe Jore, situated near Dera Sachkhand Ballan here, unanimously termed the "separate religion" announcement as an attempt at dividing the communities.

Speaking in the presence of more than 30 dera heads, society president Baba Nirmal Dass Jore Wale said: "The decision taken by the Dera Ballan Trust cannot be imposed on the entire Ravidassia community. The newly created scripture `Amritbani Satguru Ravidass Maharaj-ji' will not be treated as a `granth'. Besides, no one consulted all stakeholders in the matter before taking the decision."

"We condemn the killing of Dera Ballan's Sant Ramanand in Vienna last year, but the Sikh community and Guru Granth Sahib cannot be blamed for the cowardly act of a few people. We must not oppose the holy book," the dera heads said.

"Guru Granth Sahib will not be removed from any gurdwara, while it will be re-installed at Seer Goverdhanpur, the birthplace of Guru Ravidas at Varanasi. The community should continue to follow the centuries-old religious practice," Baba Nirmal Dass said.

The meeting noted that several members of the Dalit community had sacrificed their lives to defend the philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib. "Guru Ravidass' bani reached the masses on being incorporated in Guru Granth Sahib," the meeting agreed.

The participants said the sign of "Har" was created by the society in 1974, and the greeting of "Jai Gurudev" was being used by Dalits since more than 80 years. "We are not against any dera or religious figure, but only against the vested interests of certain people who are misusing the name of a dera," they said.

They also criticised the attempts of some elements to browbeat those who had challenged the Dera Sachkhand directive, as with Samaj Bachao Morcha convener Gian Chand.

Meanwhile, two Ravidassia gurdwaras have formally installed the newly created holy book -- "Amritbani Satguru Ravidass Maharaj-ji" -- alongside Guru Granth Sahib.

Jagdish Jassal, a Dalit villager, said Chaheru-based Dera Phul Dass chief Kishan Nath had installed the new scripture at the Ravidassia gurdwara in Nangal Krar Khan village on Wednesday morning. The text bearing Guru Ravidas `bani' was placed in a separate canopy next to the existing Guru Granth Sahib. A police team was also rushed to the village as a preventive measure.

Similarly, the new scripture was also placed at the Ravidassia gurdwara in Dhadde village, though in a room separate from the one in which Guru Granth Sahib is installed.

So now this so called new religion want to impose itself on ravidasia like talibans

Row over new religion: ‘Dera directive can’t be enforced on entire community’

Posted: Tuesday , Feb 02, 2010 at 2353 hrs

Jalandhar:

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After the announcement by Dera Sachkhand Ballan of founding a separate religion —Ravidassia —at an event to mark the 633rd birth anniversary of Sant Ravidass in Varanasi on Saturday, several dissenting voices are being heard. The dera has also announced that the community will have a separate religious book titled ‘Amrit Bani Guru Ravidass’, which contains 240 hymns by Guru Ravidass, a separate symbol ‘Har’ and a separate motto ‘Jai Gurudev’.

Addressing a press conference, Gian Chand, convener of Samaj Bachao Morcha, which represents a section of Dalits, stated that the dera’s directive could not be enforced on the entire community. Claiming that the dera’s name was being used by certain persons for their vested interests, ha said Dera Sachkhand Ballan chief Sant Niranjan Dass had never spoken on the issue. He added that at the recent celebrations in Varanasi, all traditions of the Guru Granth Sahib were followed.

Demanding the reason for Sant Niranjan Dass’ silence on the issue, Chand said he should be brought before the media as “this decision could not be his own”. Morcha members said they had the utmost respect for Guru Ravidass’ bani but at the same time the community cannot turn its back towards the Guru Granth Sahib. Dera Sachkhand Ballan came into the limelight after the Vienna incident, wherein Sant Ramananad, the deputy of Sant Niranjan Dass, was murdered in an attack allegedly carried out by some Sikhs in May last year. Sant Niranjan Dass was injured in the attack. The motive behind the attack is still not known and Austrian police are still investigating the case. Several members of the sect, in a major departure from tradition, had stopped placing the Guru Granth Sahib in the Ravidass temples after the attack, but gradually the birs were reintroduced.

Ravidassia community part and parcel of Sikhism: Makkar

AMRITSAR:Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) chief Avtar Singh Makkar said there was no move to remove the Guru Granth Sahib from the gurdwaras named after Sant Ravidass. “The Ravidassia community should not restrict the great saint to itself as he was an apostle of peace and humanity for the whole of mankind. The Ravidassia community is part and parcel of Sikhism and all Sikhs place a high regard on the teachings of Sant Ravidass,” he said.

Security tightened

Activists of Ambedkar Sena (Mool Niwasi) termed Gian Chand a traitor and raised slogans against the Samaj Bachao Morcha and its leaders outside the Press Club on Monday. The police rushed to the spot and managed to control the unruly scene. Superintendent of Police (Headquarters) Satinder Singh escorted Gian Chand to his residence. Later, security was strengthened in the city and the areas around the dera.

Sant Niranjan Dass back in city

Ravidassia-Begumpura Express, a train hired by Dera Sachkhand Ballan for carrying devotees to Varanasi to celebrate the birth anniversary of Guru Ravidass at his birth place (Seer Gowardhanpur) returned to Jalandhar on Monday with Dera head Sant Niranjan Dass and his aide Sant Surinder Dass Bawa on board. At the railway station, about 300 dera followers welcomed the sants. The dera management, however, chose not to speak to the mediapersons who had gathered at the railway station.

It seems like everyone sold out the 1984 massacre victims.......

I mean even if they are outwitted by the centre the SGPC could at least open up the coffers a bit for widows and that, but we all know where their heart lays. I want to know, just what happens with the massive golak contributions the SGPC ends up with? Where does it end up? In the Badal family treasury?

Well If the treasure of sgpc ends up in Badal family

the treasure of DSGPC ends up in Sarna and other members of Dsgpc.I agree that SGPC should had done something ,but dsgp members were dorectly involved in threatening the widows in the cases of 1984.People like Jarnail singh who put their entire career on stake by throwing shoe was not even given saropa and allowed to speak in the major Gurdwara' of Delhi like rakab ganj,Bangla sahib sis ganj though saropa's were given to Tytler and sajjan kumar

Whether it is Badal or sarna,Jatt or Khatri's the fact is condition of sikhism is very bad and it is going worse

We also need to eject the closet Jatt pillocks also. But the problem is, if we do that we'd have no one in our institutions. Plus a lot more of them will be killing themselves because their livelihoods have been taken away. Have you noticed how they have no shame with jumping into bed with the RSS when it suits them?

Seeing all this, I'm glad we never got Khalistan now.

I think it is the nature of Punjabi's irrespective of caste for doing anything for Money and power.DSGPC is not controlled by jatts but still they are the one's who sold justice of 1984 riots to congress.Sikh schools and colleges in Delhi are not even in the list of best school or colleges.As a result of this many sikh families opt for english medium best schools of Delhi where sikh children get exposed to westernised culture

It is a sad state of affairs. Trust me, this may cause the panth problems in the long run if it takes off. We need a much more representative SGPC and Akali Dal. There should be quotas there. Plus we need to stop this aparteid in the pinds.

If America can have a black president, I'm sure we can do a lot better in our polity. We need change to the existing order, it has become corrupt.

Agree with it we need representation of lower caste sikhs.But those sikhs should only be one who have respect for sikhism and not puppets of radical dalits.

So from now onwards bani of 10 sikh Guru's is not even acceptable to them.The same bani which they used to read and respected.Is this the way they are fighting oppression?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/punjab/New-Punjab-sect-lays-down-code/Article1-504200.aspx

New Punjab sect lays down code

Kamaljeet Paul, Hindustan Times

Print

The Dera Sachkhand Ballan released a code of conduct for its followers on Monday after formally severing its ties with Sikhism.

While Sachkhand means the abode of God, Ballan is the village where the dera (the congregation) is located on the outskirts of Jalandhar.

The dera, where devotees of Ravidas come together, announced on Saturday its distinct faith on the 633rd birth anniversary of its patron saint.

“We will respect all religions, love mankind, and lead a virtuous life,” the code declares, adding that the followers will recite texts from the new holy book of the faith.

According to sources, Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib, which thus far had a place of honour at Ravidas shrines, is now likely to be replaced with a newly released Amritbani Satguru Ravidas Maharaj-ji — though in a phased manner.

The new code lays down the objectives of the Ravidassia Dharam — primarily propagating Ravidas’ teachings. Besides, the teachings of Namdev and Kabir — Bhakti saints of the 15th and 16th centuries — will also be propagated. There is no mention, however, of any of the 10 Sikh gurus.

Relations between Ravidassias and Sikhs were strained following the assassination of Dera Sachkhand deputy chief Sant Ramanand in Vienna in May last year. Dera chief Sant Niranjan Dass had sustained bullet injuries. Sikh hardliners are suspected to have been behind the attack.

One thing is for certain though, unless prevailing attitudes change (which is highly unlikely), they will essentially remain 2nd class members of the panth. What can I say? To me anyone not fighting discrimination directed towards them are not men. To be straight up, if they settled for third rate membership of the panth, which is what is being foisted on them

That's the point they are not fighting discrimination.

They are running from discrimination by creating a new religion.If they really has spine they should fight caste discrimination by remaining within sikhism but they are choosing easy route and that is creating a new religion.

And Btw the census of India is going to happen in 2011

will they ask GOI to recognise them as new religion.GOI still don't recognise new religions.They will put them under the bracket of Hinduism and soon they will become 4th class citizen of Hindu society .

so the main question is that the creation of new religion is really a fighting oppression or just they are reverting back to hinduism

I don't buy this at all KDS. That is a policy of low expectations for Sikhs. The type of hypocrisy and outright nastiness that characterises the behaviour of some of our brothers towards other brothers doesn't fly

May be this is low expectation but the fact is we humans always divide ourself.Just look at thread student visa someone stated that UK sikhs should help

migrant sikhs and immdiately blame game started they are worse we are better.

To be I honest I belive that majority of us have this

caste/racist mentality by which we always try to prove superior than others.

If any sane person is treated like crap they will rightfully question their 'belongingness'.

You are right a person will rightfully question his belongingness but the question will he create a new religion because he is discriminated? Lower caste sikhs can create their own Gurdwara's they can read bani.all these things are justified if they are discriminated

.But in no way they can justify creating a new religion and that too of a Guru which just belong to their own caste.Jatt domination is wrong but sikhism is universal faith.the creation of a new religion only shows that they have no love for sikhism ,or sikh guru's or the teachings of Guru granth sahib.

Dalsingh do you really think that by creating a new religion all that discrimination will end? The answer is no.The only people who will benefit from it are their sants who don't have to follow akal takhat maryada now.

(2) Leave the society and join another or try and form a better one yourselves.

Leaving a society and leaving a religion are 2 different things.sometimes there are many societies

within a single religion

Because we are Sikhs, not camel jockeys. I don't think it is good for us to model ourselves on Johnny Arab in anycase. We have a newer, fresher faith. Plus we need to get our act together and become majorities and stop being minorities!

What others do is their business, we should be focusing on improving our own samajh.

But we are Humans too and we suffer from same problems

as all human societies suffer.I am not saying that we should moder ourselves as arabs or Hindu's.I am just showing example that despite strong islamic brotherhood concept Arabs never gave up their superiority in islam.

The creation of Ravidasia religion has more to do with radical dalitism that is practiced by Parties like BSP.

KDS

You can't ignore the rampant discrimination by so called Sikhs towards so called lower castes, I've seen so much of it, it would take an age to tell you. At some point Sikhs have to face up to these things. There is discrimination. It isn't a figment of people's imagination.

Just because it goes on in Hinduism, doesn't excuse it for Sikhs.

Plus how much are Sikh institutes Jatt nepotistic affairs. The problem is endemic.

I agree that there is discrimination and it should be eliminated but the question is why only sikhism? Arabs still consider themself superior in islam and treat muslim workers from other countries as trash.they go to poor muslim countries marrytheir under age girls and then leave them .But i never heard any case of poor downtrodden muslims leaving islam because of discrimination