4 hours ago, das said:

It's simple: just replace religion with school and you'll understand. Let's say, it is very fortunate to get admission into any prestigious school but spending all the life in the same school without ever graduating is misfortunate. In other words, religion was supposed to guide us to the ultimate truth; but unfortunately we have chosen to boost about our religion and putting extra stress on the uniform and rituals of the religion and just ignored the real teachings of the religion (i.e to move towards the Ultimate Truth).

Isn't this simple enough to say but the toughest thing to ever attempt practically?

Not a good example. In school you have to accept their rules and regulations , but after graduating you don't follow their rules and regulations.can you name one religion which says that it is ok to break their code of conduct after you understand their teaching.

Also who will decide whether you graduated in religion or not 

Quote

The Chauhan clan

 

More than 1400 years ago Kshatriyas belonging to the Chauhan[1] clan established a small kingdom around the town of Sambhar[2]. In the 9th Century, as tributaries of the Imperial Pratihars of Kannauj, the Chauhans fought the Palas of Bengal (in the east) and the Arabs of Sindh (in the west). As their power grew, younger sons of each Chauhan Raja, known as Rajaputras[3], established their own strongholds and principalities around the parent kingdom. 

The Chauhans did not suffer any loss during the 11th Century invasions of Mahmud Ghaznavi but they had several fights with his successors who established their rule in the neighboring region of the Punjab. In the early 12th Century Ajayraj Chauhan built a fort near the Holy Town of Pushkar. The site commanded a strategic gap in the Aravalli hills—to the west was Sambhar and the trade routes leading to the southern ports, while to the east was the fertile basin of the River Ganga and its tributaries. This hill-fort was named Ajay-meru[4] (Ajay’s hill), which with the passage of time was pronounced Ajmer, and which became the site for a new capital city for the Chauhans. 

The descendants of Ajayraj captured the then small town of Delhi[5] from the Tomars and southern Punjab from the Ghaznavi Turks. At the close of the 12th Century Prithviraj III ruled from Ajmer with ambitions in the south (other kingdoms mostly of his own clansmen in southern Rajasthan and Gujarat), in the north (Punjab and the hill-chiefs of Himachal Pradesh[6]), and the south-east (northern Madhya Pradesh). 

Further in the west the Turkish Sultan of Ghor captured Ghazni and deputed his brother, Shihab-ud-din Muhammad, to rule there. The elder brother then turned his energies against other Turk tribes of Iran and Central Asia while the younger led expeditions into India. Passing through Baluchistan Muhammad captured Multan and Uch and then sent a proposal to Prithviraj asking for a joint campaign against the ruler of Gujarat. This proposal was rejected since the Chauhans had enough resources to tackle the Chaulukyas of Gujarat on their own. 

Muhammad Ghori went ahead with his invasion in 1178 but the Chaulukyas, in alliance with the Chauhans of southern Rajasthan, defeated him. Prithviraj, who at that time was a teenager, had resolved to fight the Turk invader first, but his minister Kadambvas suggested that the Ghori - Chaulukya conflict would exhaust both these enemies and leave the field clear for the Kingdom of Ajmer. A few years later Prithviraj embarked on digvijay (conquest in all four directions) and won victories—but no major territory. 

Muhammad Ghori rebuilt his armed strength and captured Peshawar from the Ghaznavi Turks—continuing his operations against his fellow Muslims Ghori finally ended the Ghaznavi dynasty in 1186 and came into direct contact with the Kingdom of Ajmer. For a few years he probed the defences of the northern region through cavalry raids—finally in 1190 Muhammad Ghori attacked and captured the frontier fort of Sarhind[7]. While he was busy garrisoning the fort and arranging for his return to Ghazni, Muhammad learnt to his consternation that Prithviraj was already marching against him. 

Muhammad Ghori resolved to strike the first blow and marched south to intercept the Chauhan army. At Tarain, near modern Thanesar, the two armies met in 1191. In the head-on fight the Hindu cavalry charged and enveloped the two wings of the Turk army—the favorite maneuvers and mobile archery of the Turks were impossible in that cramped position. The superior swordsmanship of the Chauhans gave them a rapid victory and the two routed wings of Muhammad Ghori fled for their lives. In the center the Hindu elephants and infantry came up to the contest—a javelin struck Muhammad Ghori in the shoulder and a Khalji soldier carried the swooning Sultan away to safety. When their commander fled the rest of the Muslim center too broke down and fled after him. 

The combined arms (elephants, cavalry, infantry) force of Prithviraj chased after the enemy but the Turkish cavalry easily outpaced them. The Chauhans surrounded the important fort of Sarhind—after 13 months when the food supply ran out the Turk garrison surrendered. Prithviraj returned to his capital, while his generals returned to their forts and towns to rest their army and replenish their equipment, elephants, and horses. They also needed to keep a watch on their neighbors who had taken advantage of the recent battle to encroach on Chauhan lands. 

In all this time Muhammad Ghori collected a fresh army and returned to the Punjab. Once again he captured the bone of contention Sarhind and sent a message to Prithviraj to submit and convert to Islam. The Chauhans were then involved in some other battles but Prithviraj boldly collected an army and marched to Sarhind—Muhammad Ghori again intercepted him at Tarain. Prithviraj had by then learnt of the loss of Sarhind and of the large cavalry with Ghori—he used diplomacy to buy time so that his other generals could join him with their forces. He told Muhammad to be content with Sarhind and withdraw his army to Ghazni. 

Shihab-ud-din went along since the earlier defeat at this same place was heavy on his mind. He pointed out that his brother was the real ruler and without consulting him Muhammad could not take any major political decision—he too was playing for time and for information on the enemy. The two armies camped in sight of each other—one night Muhammad Ghori left the campfires burning and took his army by a roundabout route to attack the Chauhans. But once again the cavalry of Prithviraj met them in a headlong clash and repulsed the Turks. 

Muhammad Ghori’s plan had failed and he retired to his own camp but he now had a correct estimate of Prithviraj’s army and had realized how weak it was. Forming his cavalry into four divisions of 10,000 he sent them to harass the Chauhans from all sides. The Turks were now in their element with hit-and-run cavalry maneuvers and horse archery—the combined arms of the Hindus could not chase after one and repel another division simultaneously. The order of the Chauhan army broke down, along with the communications between its various elements, and Ghori charged with his main division and finally defeated Prithviraj. The Chauhan King was either killed or captured according to the different accounts. 

Why spend so much time discussing this one clan you may ask? 

Because they straddled the gap between the ancient and medieval India and were witness to a momentous turning point in Indian History…also because they were part of an important battle, which changed Indian society and military tactics for the next few centuries. Comparison is also needed with the story in Punjab, Sindh, and Afghanistan, all of which fell earlier and more completely to the assault of Islam. This comparison will come later. 

Sources: 

The most popular accounts about Prithviraj were written centuries later by a Muslim (the book Gulshan-i-Ibrahimi by Ferishta) and by a Hindu (the book Prithviraj Raso by Chand Bardai). Both of these are full of exaggerations and myth. 

According to Ferishta Prithviraj had an army of 300,000 cavalry (!), 3000 elephants (!), and innumerable infantry (what could be moreinnumerable after 300,000 horsemen? The entire population of the Kingdom of Ajmer?). Later Rajput Kingdoms (when cavalry had become the most important formation in the army) of a similar large size had at the most 20,000 cavalry. By this comparison Prithviraj could not have had more than 10,000 horsemen. 

Chand Bardai states that after the first Battle of Tarain Prithviraj fell in love with, carried away, and married Sanyogita, daughter of Jaychand Rathor of Kannuaj. His love for her caused the defeat in the second battle, which is not borne out by the facts related above. According to contemporary literature, inscriptions, and coins the rulers of Kannauj were Gahadvals…the Rathors of Badaun were their tributaries. There is no record of a conflict between Ajmer and Kannauj for the simple reason that they did not have a common border. 

Tarain I was fought in early 1191, for thirteen months after this Prithviraj was busy in the siege of Sarhind (early 1192); Tarain II was fought only a few months later. When did Prithviraj have the time to correspond with a princess, admit his love to her, and make arrangements to carry her away from a place hundreds of miles in the east[9]? 

The more contemporary, and accurate, account is the Prithviraj-vijaywritten by Jayank. This man was a Kashmiri who had settled down in Ajmer and was a poet in Prithviraj’s court. The names of the Chauhan Kingdom’s ministers and generals are given here—interestingly one of these generals, named Udayraj, was from Bengal. The Prithviraj-vijayalso describes the early communications between Ghori and the Chauhans, and the advice given to Prithviraj by the minister Kadambvas. 

There are two other books that mention these events in passing. ThePrabandha-chintamani by Merutunga Acharya claims that Prithviraj was taken prisoner but was restored to the throne of Ajmer by Ghori. On a visit to Ajmer the Turk chief happened to see a wall painting in the palace that showed the Muslim soldiers being crushed by a charging horde of wild boar[8]. The humiliated Ghori had Prithviraj killed. 

The Viruddhavidhi-vidhvamsa by Laksmidhar describes the absence of the main Chauhan general Skanda in another battle (the enemy is not described). But it goes on to say that Prithviraj was killed by the Turushkas[10] and his brother, the Rajaputra Hariraj became King. 

The Hammir-Mahakavya of Nayachandra Suri is a later work but it was written on commission from the Chauhans of Ranthambhor (who will be described in later posts). It has many internal details of the Chauhan clan but exaggerates Prithviraj’s victory (it claims several victories) over Ghori by describing the repeated capture and release of the Turk chief. The Hammir-Mahakavya also claims that Prithviraj was taken prisonerbut to Delhi—the Bengali general Udayraj attacked Delhi to rescue his master but Prithviraj died in captivity and Udayraj was killed in battle. This work confirms that the Rajaputra Hariraj became the next King of Ajmer. 

[1] Original pronunciation is Chahaman. 
[2] Originally Sakambhari, the town is near a salt lake of the same name. In those days it was a wealthy city located on important trade routes. 
[3] Literally King’s (Raja) son (putra). The history of this word and its modification into Rajput will be described in another post. 
[4] Meru is a Sanskrit word for hill. Sumeru was the good or blessed (Su) hill (meru) of the Vedas. 
[5] Known in those times as Dhillika. After its capture by Muslims it was also called Yoginipura, the city of witches. 
[6] According to the Prithviraj-raso Kangra and its mountain chiefs were allies of the Tomars of Delhi. 
[7] The Muslim historians call this place Tabarhind or Tarrhind. 
[8] The wild boar is regarded as the bravest animal in Rajasthani lore. 
[9] The Prithviraj Raso in complete departure from all other accounts states that the Chauhan King was taken to Ghazni. When he refused to lower his eyes in front of Shihab-ud-din the latter had him blinded. While demonstrating his skill in archery the blind Hindu King shot an arrow into the throat of Muhammad Ghori and killed him. After this the author of the Raso and Prithviraj killed each other. 
[10] The ancient word for the Turks. According to Indian tradition one of the sons of Bharat, named Turvasu, had migrated to Central Asia and his descendants (Turvasu-ka) became the Turks. This remains mere conjecture and speculation since there is no material evidence to back this story—somewhat similar to the speculations of the Aryan Theory. 

http://horsesandswords.blogspot.in/2006/04/chauhan-clan.html

The author of this blog has given great information about the source of Prithviraj's death

Several Hindu historians have also recorded the fact that Prithviraj was killed by Ghauri

17 hours ago, Guest Rahul said:

Proof ? like Video ? or Audio ? or finger prints ? 

 

C'mon man, its all about whats in the history books. Different history books say different things. if u say u believe the history written by the court of Ghori, but not by the Chauhan's men. who would u trust here ? The Chauhan who died protecting the country ? or the Ghori who killied civilians of our country ?

 

 

There are always historians who will irrespective of whether it suits their religion or their people.3 main problem with the theory that Prithviraj killed Ghauri are 

1) If Chand Bardai was their with prithviraj then he was also killed with him according to story then who wrote this entire history and how did this reach India.Prithviraj Raso should had never been completed because Chand Bardai was killed along with Chauhan.So if Afghans really wanted to bury this history how come Chand Bardai's son knew that Prithviraj killed Ghauri?

2)A blind man killing Sultan in front of hundreds of men will become talk of town and some historians will record that

Prithviraj raso which mention this is considered as semi history , semi legendry account

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prithviraj_Raso

Anyway if you people are so sure why not send Indian historians their to study more about Prithviraj?

14 hours ago, Manrajsingh said:

My dad has been drinking a lot of alcohol from past few year. 2-3 weeks every 3-4 months he just goes 24 hours drinking. My family is really stressed.  We have tried everything we  could but nothing worked. I really need some help. 

Thanks

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

There must be a reason , he may be stressed or depressed , ask him what is the reason and then find the solution

23 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Bro, what does "Bhaddan tyago" mean?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Give up head shaving ceremony

29 minutes ago, amardeep said:

Trai mudra are mentioned in Sarbloh Granth and Suraj Prakash Granth

I think that evidence that 5ks or 3 mudra were not widespread among sikhs. isn't there something mughal account which mention that khatri's started fighting themselves because Guru gobind singh told them to " Bhaddan tyago" and for many khatri's this was not accepted . that means Bhaddan was quite common among sikhs

38 minutes ago, amardeep said:

im not sure. I've heard different explanations, one being that the 5 K's were always there but refered to as 3 mudras due to some of the items belonging together.

The Kesh and Kanga is the first mudra. They go hand in hand just as the kirpan and gatra today go hand in hand (but gatra is not included in the list of 5 K's).

The keshara is the second mudra

The Kirpan and Kara is the third mudra. Both are weapons and therefore considered one.

 

Later on Sikh poets started playing with the names of these five items and started giving them the name panj kakaar - therefore it went from 3 mudras to 5 K's...

I am reading Pracheen panth prakash these days and nowhere it is written that 5ks or 3 mudra were part of sikhism before khalsa

Quote

They told the Guru that he had selected all the low-caste people,
Who were completely defenceless and unarmed.
He should throw this challenge before the martial royal chiefs,
As they were the right persons who could serve his purpose. (27)
Dohra : Then Sri Guru Gobind Singh felt anguished and thought,
That his followers did not wish to achieve anything in life.
He had wished to confer power and sovereignty on them,
But they were repeatedly refusing to accept this honour. (28)
Chaupai : Sri Guru Gobind Singh, being an expert omniscient psychoanalyst,
Had diagnosed the root cause of his Sikh’s psychic malady.
Since these Sikhs had been peaceful followers of a Charan Pahul4 tradition,
There was no spark of self-assertion and retaliation in their psyche. (29)
Dohra : They had been used to wearing a black woolen silken cap as head cover,
As they had been indoctrinated to call themselves as servants or slaves,
They being grounded in excessive compassion and humility,
It would be futile to ask them to pick up swords. (30)
Chaupai : He should first bring about a transformation in their character,
And make their appearance formidable that evokes fear and awe.
He should give his organisation a charismatic nomenclature,
And administer a heavy dose of heady elixir to them. (31)
So Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh arrived at a firm resolution,
And made efforts to implement it after deep contemplation.
They must adopt the dress code of a martial warrior race,
And grow hair and wear turbans on their heads. (32)
The warrior Kshtriyas had been suffixing the epithet “Singhs”
The same suffix “Singh” would suit his followers’ names as well.
He resolved to administer them the “Khandey-ki-Pahul”5 ,
In order to make the Khalsa formidable and resolute. (33)
In this way, they would learn the art of wielding power,
And develop a feeling of having become rulers and sovereigns.
From people weak as straw and reeds, he would turn them into men of steel,
After partaking of sword-initiated elixir, they would not be scared to pick up swords. (34)
Dohra : The Khalsa must be as autonomous and self-respecting,
As embodiment of all the Divine attributes in plenty.
Never submitting to the sovereignty of anyone else,
Except the sovereignty and autonomy of God alone. (35)

page 81 pracheeen panth praksh , Rattan singh bhangoo

From this it looks that Khlasa was isea of Guru Gobind singh with unique identiy.

On 7/12/2016 at 6:19 AM, Xylitol said:

all who profit earn the karma, including the butcher, the owner, and the eater, and the farmer. taken from a sant's katha, don't recall who.

 

 cut it down, you have to protect your family's health and safety. i'll give an example, if i see a spider  in the house i'll gently pick it up and put it outside. i don't want to unnecessarily kill living things. but if I saw a cockroach I would kill it b/c they carry disease. it would be  a greater wrong to let it live and expose my family to disease. btw, there are no roachs in my very clean house, just an example :)

 

Religions like Jainism gave up farming , because it still require killing some pests. I guess sikhs should also give up farming because  there is no way a farmer can survive without direct or indirect killings.In Indian states of Punjab , Haryana , west UP Buffalo is  now most popular animal because unproductive buffaloes can be easily sold to  slaughter houses while cow slaughter is ban so unproductive cow hold no value . You even has to pay from your pocket for unproductive cow to give it to gaushala .Buffalo meat export from India is now worth 25 thousand crores per annum. So almost all farmers are doing it willingly or unwillingly

On 7/12/2016 at 5:22 AM, GurpreetKaur said:

My intuition is telling me your favorite channel is NewsChannel? 

I know I can read mind .:)

What is this? 

You might have seen many people who are joining defence forces and guarding our nation 24×7. But, today you will meet this couple who has dedicated their lives for our country’s safety.

Bikramjit Singh who is in the Indian army and his wife Amarjit Kaur who is serving in the BSF.

http://www.ssbcrack.com/2016/07/army-couple-dedicated-lives-countrys-safety.html

4 hours ago, Guest Sukhdev said:

He is just making assumption based on the fact that the subjects are controversial (they should not be however) and that they have been spoken about before on here by others. Hey even I was accused of being someone else if you remember!

However it should not be difficult to believe that more than one female in the panth are unhappy with being in a subordinate position. I have heard of more than one female back home actually who tried to take their own life because they hated being female with so much restriction placed on them. One thought if she recited sukhmani sahib and downed a bunch of pills she would wake up being born as a male. These attitudes about females are actually causing the females to hate their gender so much they either lash out, leave Sikhi and marry someone outside the faith, or do something drastic like the girl I mentioned above. (luckily she was found in time) None of the above are the answer of course. The answer lies with us as Singhs. What we do and how we proceed will determine quite literally whether Sikhi will die out in a few generations. Its not hard to imagine how that will happen, if our women all leave and follow some other religion, or none at all (atheism is becoming very popular now for reasons like this) and marry non-Sikhs, because we choose to marginalize them and put them on a level beneath us, then its only us who are at fault. I personally don't want to see that happen.

 

 

Can you please tell all of us here whether by sikhs , you only mean amritdhari's ,or include keshdhari or the all of the people who call themselves sikh?

3 hours ago, paapiman said:

The article does not mention the age with conviction. Is there any other historical source to confirm the age of the concubines?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

The article  is from German physician. and he was assuming that some of them were not older than 14-15. But still the question how this practice entered sikhism and why Sikh priests of highest order did not oppose it.

2 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Were they forced to become Satis or they chose to become Satis?

Maharaja Ranjit Singh jee did not keep sex slaves. Those women were probably his concubines, but to use the word "slave" would be inappropriate for this great King.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

No matter who were they , It was wrong for 14-15 year old girls to do Sati with Ranjit Singh as that was sikh kingdom and sikh priests should had opposed that but they choose to remain silent.What is wrong is wrong

Quote

 

 

Amarpal Sidhu

June 26 at 8:40pm

Just going through Nigel Collett's book at the moment. Interesting anecdote of a longish and pretty brutal tug of war contest between the 29th Punjabis and the 14th Sikhs in 1889, Peshawar.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sikhmilitaryhistoryforum/

How tough those Sikhs were. For a game they died and let their skin ripped apart from soles

Quote

THE DAY MAHARAJAH WAS CREMATED 28TH JUNE 1839

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬਾਰਿ ਪਰਾਇਐ ਬੈਸਣਾ ਸਾਂਈ ਮੁਝੈ ਨ ਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਜੇ ਤੂ ਏਵੈ ਰਖਸੀ ਜੀਉ ਸਰੀਰਹੁ ਲੇਹਿ ॥੪੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1380}

fareedaa baar paraa-i-ai baisnaa saaN-ee mujhai na deh.
jay too ayvai rakhsee jee-o sareerahu layhi. ||42||

Fareed begs, O Lord, do not make me sit at another's door.
If this is the way you are going to keep me, then go ahead and take the life out of my body. ||42|

As the sun rose the next day ceremonies started with bathing of the maharajah with holy waters of Harmandir Sahab . His clothes as he would put daily when alive along with ornaments , his turban and small weapons that he carried on person when alive were put on his person .Sandalwood paste was put on the external parts of the body like face ,neck ,hands and feet .

All the immediate family members gathered around his body and the Wazir Dhyan Singh was asked to touch his feet one last time and take oath to always stand by Kharak Singh and Nau Nihal Singh .The willy dogra obliged even while contemplating schemes to divest the Sikhs of their wealth and kingdom in the coming days .

The Sikh sirdars carried now the bier of Sher-i-Punjab barefooted amidst wails from the women of the house .The Sikh kesri flag was already at half mast city in mourning and bands playing melancholy tunes and as they came out of the fort guns were fired .
The body now motionless carried by the sirdars passed Hazuri sahab where till a couple of days the Maharajah had spent many an evening in celebrations and dance amidst music .The birds it seemed had stopped chirping and flown away scared of the multitude of people thronging the pathway .Dust raised from thousands of feet was covering the faces of the mourners reminding them all and sundry are raised from dust and become dust Maharajahs included .

Bodyguards who till yesterday guarded the maharajah when alive , even now guarded his body and were leading the mourners followed by Payada Pultan.Then followed the bier with all grandsons and sons of the Maharajh around doing Chaun Sahab to keep the flies away .Behind followed the Wazir with his wives and female attendants also having Chaun Saheb in his hand as he had when the Maharajah raised him from a foot soldier to the present post .His sons and brothers in tow .
The funeral pyre with sandalwood placed atop a six feet raised structure was the destination where these people of the royal family ,ministers , influential sirdars and people from the British to other Europeans watched in amazement a death ceremony that was as great as a living celebration.Lakhs of rupees worth of gold coins called ashrafis were being given away as were the royal jewels of the seven maharanis who were walking besides and in calmness ready to go with their lord along with seven female attendants .
As the cortege reached neared the place that had been prepared the body of the maharajah was picked by sardars who climbed the stairs kept there to reach the pyre where the body was placed .Flowers adorning the bier in silver and gold and gems were taken by the people around as was the custom .The body was now sprinkled with incense and lit the fire to the body of Maharajah .The flames reached the sky as they say and out of no where two pigeons fell in where the Maharajah , his four wives and seven female attendants were already in flames .It is said few drops of rain fell as if heavens were weeping on the demise of the man who raised Punjab to the stature of a nation and whose demise they could foresee .
The man whose mere presence and name was enough to shudder was reducing to cinders while the world around watched in dismay brooding over Khalsa Durbar’s future with anxiety writ on their faces .
At the cremation was also John Martin Honigberger the German personal physician who has published a detailed account of Suttee and cremation day in his book “Thirty Five Years in the East , Adventures , Discoveries , Experiments “ published in 1905 .Following is the extract from this book ..
“The first sad and cruel scene that I witnessed after the death of Runjit Sing , was the Suttee , of burning of his eleven wives ,along with the body of the deceased .There were four ranis ( legal wives ) , and seven female slaves , who , animated with the superstitious hope of entering paradise with their lord and husband , were ascending the funeral pile with death -despising intrepidity ; they cowed around the corpse , and were covered with reed mats , on which oil was poured in profusion . This done , fire was set to the funeral pile , so that the poor creatures became suffocated by the smoke and flames before they could utter a cry .”
“Early in the morning subsequent to that on which death of the maharajah happened , I went down the Tukht ( Coronation Square ) , accompanied by Col . Henry Steinbach ( lately in the service of the maharajah Gholab Singh , in Cashmere , now in Europe ), and we directed our steps towards the large yard , which we had to cross , in order to get betimes to a convenient place close to the funeral pile .This was erected between the walls and the fortress , in a small garden , the conflux of the people having being so enormous in the fortress .In the large yard , we observed one of the four ranis (queens) coming out of the harem on foot and unveiled , for the first time in her life .She was slowly proceeding towards the place where the royal body was lying , and she was surrounded by about one hundred persons, who kept themselves at some distance ,while accompanying her .Close to her side their was a man carrying a small box ,m containing the remainder of her jewels ( as she had already distributed some ) , which she made presents of , handing them one by one to the people on her right and left .Two or three steps in front of her , where there was a man moving in a backward direction ,his face turned towards her , and holding a looking -glass that she might convince herself that her features were unaltered , and no fear visible on them .At the distribution of the jewels , Col.Steinbach made the observation that , had we stretched out a hand to receive a present , it certainly would not have been denied ; but we thought proper to leave it to the poorer people , because we occupied lucrative posts .It is curios , indeed , that this was the very rani whom Runjit Sing married in the first year of my residence in that country , ten years having passed since I witnessed the nuptials at Nadun .She was , as I mentioned before , a daughter of Sunsar Chand , and she had a younger sister , whom the maharajah at the same time took also for a wife , and conveyed them both to Lahore ; the later , I am told , had died of consumption during my absence .As for the former , although I was present at her wedding , I nevertheless had never seen her before , and it was only on her last fatal walk , which she took to the funeral pile , that I could behold her .The funeral train , accompanied by many thousand of spectators , was now proceeding ; all were on foot , their abode in the fortress not being far distant from the place of the ceremony .The four ranis only were carried , in open planquins , behind the deceased , after them followed the seven female slaves , barefooted ; some of them appeared to be not more than fourteen or fifteen years of age .The ranis , too , were barefooted , their silk dresses were simple , and without any ornaments , and they appeared to be indifferent to the awful though voluntary fate which awaited them .Perhaps our hearts throbbed more at the view of this dismal train than those of the poor victims themselves .The body of Runjit Sing was placed on a board , to which it was probably fastened , and was carried on a light and decorated by bier constructed in the shape of a ship; the sails and the flags of the vessel were made of rich golden and silk stuff (kimkab) and of cashmere shawls .A number of people carried the bier from the interior of the fortress upto the funeral -pile , there the board with the body was taken out of it and deposited on the ground , where , on what was a small garden , now stands a summoodh , i.e. a tomb of the royal family Runjit Sing , Kurruck Sing and No-Nehal Sing i.e. the father , son , and grand child , together with their wives and slaves .The costly ornaments of the richly decorated bier were given to the mob ; the Brahmins performed their prayers from the Shasters , a book written in the indian or Sanscrit language ; the Gooroos , or priests of the Sikhs , did the same , from their holy scripture called Grunth Saheb , * and the Musselem accompanied them with their “Ya Allah ! Ya Allah !” . A slow , but not displeasing rumbling of the drums and the murmuring of the people , gave to the whole scene a melancholy aspect , and was peculiar to the country .The funeral pile which displayed itself before the eyes of the spectator , was constructed of dry woods , amongst which there were pieces of aloe ; it was about six feet high and square .After the prayers of the Brahmins and Gooroos , which lasted nearly an hour , the minister and the sirdars ascended by a ladder the funeral-pile upon which ignitable matters and substances , as cotton seeds , and &c were strewn , and the royal body was respectfully placed in the middle of the pile , together with the board . After this , the ranis ascended the fatal ladder , one by one , according to their rank , the slaves followed ,and the minister showed himself very officious in affording them assistance . The ranis placed themselves at the head of the royal body , and the slaves closed at its feet .Their they cowered , remaining in silent expectation for the fatal moment , when a strong thick mat of reeds being brought , with which the whole were covered , oil was then poured over the mat , the minister and sirdars descended , and the pile was lighted at each corner .In a few moments , the deplorable victims of an abominable and fanatic ceremony had ceased to exist .
The consuming of this pile occupied two days ; on third , some of the bones and ashes of each of the bodies were collected in the presence of the court only , and separately placed in urns .After which ceremony , a preparation was made for a journey , with exactly the same pomp and splendour as if the maharajah and his wives were still alive. Thus their remains were conveyed in five richly caparisoned palanquins by numerous attendants and guards , accompanied by handsome presents , such as shawls , costly decorated elephants , horses , &c. , &c, to the banks of the Ganges , where the Brahmins received the whole .The bones and ashes they put into the river , and other valuables were distributed among themselves ; nothing returning but the men .The tents under which the ashes of Runjit Sing and each of the ranis were placed , were composed of the most valuable Cashmere shawl materials , The props of which were of gold and silver .Some millions of rupees were expended in this outfit .Upon the procession leaving the fortress it traversed the streets and bazaars , the ministers and some of the principal sirdars on foot , with numerous others mounted on their elephants and horses .Thousands of persons were assembled in the streets , bazaars , and on top of houses , by whom flowers were thrown upon the palanquins . The curtains of the palanquin which contained the remains of Runjit Sing were open , while those of his wives were closed , in the same manner as when traveling during their lifetime .The minister walked closed ot the palanquin of royal master , being occupied in keeping the flies from its contents , thus showing his respect to the last .On the arrival of the procession outside of the Delhi gate , a final and profuse royal salute was given by the thundering of canon from the fort and ramparts of the city , upon which the ministers and sirdars returned , leaving the remains and presents to be conducted by the guard. The mourning lasted thirteen days , the colour of the costume being white .

ਬੁਢਾ ਹੋਆ ਸੇਖ ਫਰੀਦੁ ਕੰਬਣਿ ਲਗੀ ਦੇਹ ॥ ਜੇ ਸਉ ਵਰ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਆ ਜੀਵਣਾ ਭੀ ਤਨੁ ਹੋਸੀ ਖੇਹ ॥੪੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1380}

budhaa ho-aa saykh fareed kamban lagee dayh
jay sa-o vareh-aa jeevnaa bhee tan hosee khayh. ||41||

Shaykh Fareed has grown old, and his body has begun to tremble.
Even if he could live for hundreds of years, his body will eventually turn to dust. ||41||

Concluded.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sikhmilitaryhistoryforum/?multi_permalinks=1351689818178711&notif_t=group_highlights&notif_id=1467111700464689

This was horrible , sex slaves of 14-15 were burnt alive with Maharaja Ranjit , and then sikhs keep on boasting that how women were equal in sikh history

10 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Bro, how do you know that he is Satkirin?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

His writing style , arguments are very similar to her, Satkiran use to get angry when anyone tells her about difference between genders, he also got angry. .Fighter pilot argument was also given by Satkiran , though it is just a minor research and that too is shorter people can tolerate more G force than taller and since women are shorter they have slight advantage

1 hour ago, JasperS said:

Woe you really like putting women down huh?

There was research that done that proved the reason males have more muscle capacity is because the overall metabolic burden on both male and female bodies are the same. Since women expend so much of that burden on growing an entire human being, it balances out.  Yes fine men can be stronger. That doesn't mean men are better, and it certainly doesnt mean men get to be in control of everything. Humans deserve to all be treated equally.  I was just pointing out that size doesn't necessarily matter. That someone small can be more agile and use the larger person's size against them. You know the bigger they are the harder they fall. And military is not all ground pounders anymore either. Fine the men want to be the grunts? The privates in the field, let them. The women can command back at base, or operate high tech drones, or even be tank crew, or yes even fighter pilots where actually women are more suited to the g force and being able to track more contacts at once. "Women make better fighter pilots than men because the female body is better suited to handle g-force and less likely to lose consciousness during flight." That coupled with being better at multitasking make women better fighter pilots. But would say men should never be fighter pilots? Same reason you cant say women should never be infantry either. If the person can do the job and is motivated, then let them. But what does this even have to do with harassment? 

I was just pointing out that MANY females are fighting back, and winning, against their attackers. That somehow makes you mad? Then you have issues. 

 

 

Where I am  putting women down. What I am saying are facts. Since you stated that a 14 year old girl was kicking grown up man Taekwondo master Ij ust asked you facts that why women are not beating men in unisex martial arts tournaments or any other physical sports

As far other roles in military are concerned I never said anything.BTW women make better fighter pilots is just a minor theory, some say that because of short height.PAF stopped inducting women fighter pilots in 2012 because of growing unfitness and lack of flying aptitude after 6 years of experiment. Russia which had women fighter pilots in 2nd world war now don't even have single one. Are you trying to say world's militaries are  taking inferior male pilots over superior women?

As far fighting back is concerned old General brar was attacked by 4  young sikh men who came to kill him and yet he escaped with minor injuries ,does that mean old people are not vulnerable?

I don't have problem if women fight back but the problem is you can't win against nature.Billions of Asian men can't even produce single runner that give serious competition to few million Jamaicans because nature is with them

And Satkiran please debate with your original ID

7 hours ago, JasperS said:

I dont have a lot of time before I have to head out, but here are a few. And I remember a really great example where a young girl actually fought off multiple male attackers to the point she injured all 4 of them!  Most male attackers preying on young women are not trained fighters, so when these girls attack they are not expecting it at all. 

And to suggest that the black belt master testing her was holding back suggests that she was cheated out of really qualifying for her belt. In other words she was just handed it is what you are saying. Trust me that was not the case! They are not allowed to do that as ITC TaeKwon Do is regulated at the world level. If anyone was found out just giving girls their belts without them actually earning them, the Masters in Korea would shut them down and probably take away that instructors qualifications. 

Anyway here are a few good examples.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11617129/Female-kickboxer-knocks-out-sex-attacker-who-pounces-as-she-walks-home.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2790060/attacker-left-battered-bruised-trying-grab-young-teenage-girl-martial-arts-expert.html

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10729692/Girl-fights-off-attacker-with-jiu-jitsu-skills

 

Since you are so much interested in Taekwondoo , can you please tell me about legitimate unisex Taekwondo tournaments where women are actually beating men?

here is something for you

Quote

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/karate.html

I don't see women in world records of brick and board breaking 

And what makes you think that criminals cannot learn martial arts. Crime world is survival of fittest there is no mercy , you have to outrun police, you have to over power people to loot them , you can't do that then you don't belong to criminal world

And it clearly looks you live in media and youtube world .Recently according to media  female rusiian fighter pilot was bombing on ISIS , but there is one problem there no female fighter pilots in Russia

Nobody knows that youtube video of these women are staged or real as there are plenty of ghost videos too but hardly scientists accept them as proof

Quote

http://www.sikhnet.com/news/singh-fought-tiger-half-hour-killing-it

Singh Fought Tiger for Half Hour Before Killing I

Wow Tigers are pussies men can kill them with spears or axes. all wild life experts are wrong as they tell you that even if you have spears or axe tiger can rip you apart.Don't go by exceptions read some real research, media always badly mmisguide people by publishing exception cases

and here is some solid research for you conducted by US army regarding women about their physical ability

Quote

http://www.fredoneverything.net/MilMed.shtml

In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are at the level of the male median. The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50 year-old man."

4 hours ago, JasperS said:

If girls train in martial arts, that old adage of women not being able to defend themselves against men goes away. They learn how to use someone's size against them. I have seen a 14 year old girl go head to head with a black belt taekwon do man (to get her black belt) and she seriously gave him a run for his money. she of course qualified for her belt! But the average adult male without martial arts training, I would hazard a guess she could hold her own against easily! 

Taekwondo is a sport and I am sure man must be abiding by rules , moreover he very well knew that he should not injure the girl. women's athelitic ability is very poor. and that is proven by science and sports multiple times

Quote

Swedish football ladies beaten by teen boys

 

Published: 16 Jan 2013 10:38 GMT+01:00

   

Sweden's women's national football team suffered a crushing defeat during a friendly in Stockholm on Tuesday, with the country's top female players finding themselves shutout by an undermanned local boys team.

http://www.thelocal.se/20130116/45646

Lol these are women of most progressive feminist nation representing their nation and they got defeated by under 15 school boys

.There is no physical sport where women outperform men. they are not slighlty but marginally inferior to them.

On the internet, people are constantly arguing over which martial art style is best for fighting. What they fail to realize is it false argument. Starting from a misconception, people are now arguing over which is the best mistaken idea. They might as well be arguing over which style is the best for walking to the moon. Yet, misconceptions and fantasies about fighting are so well entrenched in the martial arts world that they are considered truths. The authors are constantly asked “which martial art style is best for fighting?”

Our answer is: None.

To start with, the martial arts are not fighting styles, they are training styles. They do not “teach you to fight” they train you how to move your body. Just because you know how to move your body doesn’t mean you know how to fight. If that were true, then both ballerinas and football players would be great fighters. More to the point, sparring is not fighting. Nor is stepping into the sports ring. In a “real fight,” there are no judges, juries, and rules to protect the participants. There are no disallowed moves. Whoever is still standing is the winner. The loser is probably hurt and doesn’t remember a thing or dead!

While this may sound all kinds of exciting and macho, remember, at least half of the people involved in fights lose. That means, despite all your training, there is a 50/50 chance that the person on the ground will be you. The reason is very simple, you aren't the only one who has stacked the deck. Your opponent has also put some tricks up his sleeve. Unfortunately, these tricks often include surviving multiple violent encounters previously. You may be trained, but he's experienced.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/usingyourMA.htm

12 minutes ago, JasperS said:

Except, its not mandatory for non Amritdhari males to tie turbans either. So you can't say that it is mandatory for males and not for females. In reality its only mandatory for male Amritdharis, and I believe it should be mandatory for Amritdhari females also. It would resolve a lot.  

What good does it do to force a non Amritdhari male to tie turban, when he is not even making full commitment to Sikhi? If he is going around drinking alcohol in spare time, I'd really rather he did not tie a turban at all actually! That is just living a lie to me! And one of the big things that makes me upset! If this is what you are supporting, keeping these guys in turbans even though they are only doing so for cultural reasons and not for commitment to Sikhi then why even bother? 

But this is off topic and not appropriate given the subject matter of the original post. We can start a new thread if you like talking about turbans and whether to compel non Amritdhari to tie them or not or if it is even right or appropriate to do so. 

Not true , keshdhari Sikh boys have to wear turban in sikh schools , you can enjoy sikh quota priviliege in sikh colleges only if you wear turban and keep uncut hairs.while no such restrictions exist for sikh girls. For sikh quota they only have to keep head hair uncut

1 minute ago, JasperS said:

I would not be surprised by anything.  I wish for peace all around though! Please don't get me wrong! 

 And my daughter is far from teenager yet but I am hopefully helping her learn to defend against things and she is taking martial arts, which I think every young Sikh should do, especially girls! But yes my wife and I will still be weary of anyone she meets! Thats human nature! She is our pride and joy! 

Its good she is taking martial arts but still I am sure you are weary mostly of men , and the sikh boys parents are are hardly weary of any punjabi sikh woman. So yes this is the price all men pays because few men sexually harrass while very are suspicious of women.So woman can interact freely with boys and girls while men are always seen with eyes of suspicion

4 minutes ago, JasperS said:

These are good points that also need to be resolved. Turbans all around for Amritdhari. And no removal of kesh for anyone! Easy. I actually think if more girls tied dastaars the Singhs would start seeing them more as equals actually! 

But nobody can force anyone to do anything. Becoming Amritdhari is by choice not by compelling someone. Every Sikh boy I know who cuts his kesh, has not been subject of wrath by anyone. Rather, people felt disappointed and sad. But it was the boys choice! 

 

 

Amritdhari's are very small percentage of population , I see very few men who are amritdhari in my Gurdwara and almost no woman particularly with turban . If non amritdhari's will leave turban then turbans will become almost extinct , the exemptions the sikhs are fighting will be taken away on many places as there will be hardly amritdhari's or turban wearing sikhs

2 minutes ago, JasperS said:

I am not for these things! I am just stating why its not surprising. You can't make life miserable for a group of people for centuries and then be surprised when they start to lash back at you, even using the very same tactics you used on them! 

So if descendents of African slaves or aboriginals will start back lash because extreme brutalities happened to them by European colonisers then you shouldn't be surprised ?

4 minutes ago, JasperS said:

Paapiman, males have sexually harassed females in way larger numbers than females have ever done to males and all throughout history! Why not mention that?

Am I feminist? maybe! I have a young daughter! That gives me every right to be!  

I'd like to see Paapiman you have a daughter and then try to raise her telling her the things you have posted on here about females. 

Because even the Dumbest person knows that males sexually harass women and that's why a father ,brother hardly trust unknown men with their teenage daughter while an unknown women can talk to teenage boys and nobody in family thinks she may be praying on him

On 6/25/2016 at 8:22 PM, Guest Sharanpreet said:

I am 13 year old girl living in the united states and grew up in Sikh family. I was always told that girls and boys are equal in Sikhi but now I am not so sure. I see how my brother is treated different even though he is almost 2 years younger he is given more privilges. Also at the gurdwara I notice no female is ver doing anything big like by big job I mean more than langar. Why is always men in control of everything and make all the rules? Why can't women? Why no female Gurus, why when we went to India to harmandir sahib no females doing kirtan and were told no female can even touch the palki sahib? Now since I am at that age, I was told I am dirty and unclean because I am becoming adult, and cant do seva anymore. I wont tell openly to everyone if I am that time of month or not so I wont do any seva at all. Can you imagine boys having to tell openly to sangat they are impure and dirty when they are or are not. Like okay I can do seva today because I am not bleeding advertising to sangat. Or if you do it all the time seva, then stop for few days everyone will know and its embarassing that you are dirty and impure in Wahegurus eyes.  I read the other thread too on here where you guys were talking about women being bad people and Guru Gobind SIngh thinks we girls are bad because he wrote so much about it. 

Please tell me does Sikhi hate girls and did our Gurus see us as not worth as much as boys? And please dont say anything about its just a different role If you were the one told you were not allowed to do so much and its a just a role you would feel jealous of those who get to do everything as well. You would feel hatred of yourself. That there is some reason you are being punished to be made this gender. I am hating myself because Waheguru sees me as so lower than my brother. He will never have to know how it feels to be told he cant do things or be told he is dirty for something he has no control over. And you cant compare it to bathroom as we all do that and its only for as long as you are in bathroom and clean up.  Would Waheguru be mad if I want to become a boy? Or would it mean I am trying to get away from my punishment? Did I do something wrong in past life?  I feel I dont want to be a girl anymore and I see on tv how girls can become boys if they want to.  I just really dont want to be the hated gender and be seen as so low in wahegurus eyes. I feel like if being born a girl is punishment then its like I am walking around every day with a big sign saying I messed up somewhere so I have to now show everyone every day my shame as a girl.  This is how all these things make me feel. And I dont want to have baby and be stuck at home having to do housework all day. I want to do a good career like in science. I love my Mom but dont want to be her stuck at home doing boring things all day and being unhappy. I know she is unappy too and wishes she had a career but my Dad wouldnt let her. He bosses her around a lot.  I wish I was a boy so I would not have to live this life because its very hard to be girl. Boys do not understand at all how hard it is because their life is so good and Gurus loved boys and hated girls.  If I have to live as a girl rest of my life knowing Gurus and Waheguru are punishing me for something I dont know, I dont think I can do it.  If I killed myself could I be born as a boy?

 

90% plus sikh girls and women , wax , pluck their eyebrows  and still call themselves sardarni. Nobody give damn about this, but  a boy become mona the entire wrath of sikh society fall on him , what about this discrimination?

Sikh girls can or cannot wear turban , but a sikh boy must wear that , what about this?