amardeep

The so tankaya verse structures are from the Bhai Chaupa singh rahitnama 

Here is a beautiful tuk

Page 1383, Line 18
ਫਰੀਦਾ ਦੁਨੀ ਵਜਾਈ ਵਜਦੀ ਤੂੰ ਭੀ ਵਜਹਿ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
Fareed, the world dances as it dances, and you dance with it as well.
Guru Arjan Dev  

The lack of a history doesn’t mean it’s unauthentic. But it makes it more difficult to ascertain it’s authenticity.  Regardless, the poetry in it is very unique and beautiful.  I really enjoyed studying it some years ago. 

There is no history behind this Granth.  No scholar of the past as far as im aware has ever mentioned it. 

Interesting exercise.

I think we will get to know more about the root story through each charitar later on. Right now the charitars add perspective to the root story but i think it will be reversed later on and the charitars will add new info to the root story.   but let’s see what happens. 

11 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

You have this book?

Yep. It’s massive.  Big pages and quite heavy. About 1050 pages.  

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

The behaviour of Rustam Kala can be compared to the base tale.

The wise minister might be trying to tell Chittar Singh that look at Rustam Kala and her desperation to have a son. She forced a person to have sex with her to get impregnated. On the other hand, you are desperate to kill your own son, without thorough investigation.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Or maybe the young queen wanted to seduce the young prince to have his baby.  The old king probably couldn’t have kids due to old age,  the old peer being synonymous to the old king here. The wise minister is talking About the continuation of kingship and heirs here. The queen wants her baby to become the next heir to the throne, - maybe she was planning to kill hanwant singh after having his baby and claiming it to be the kings 

A Hindu friend of mine did.  He said some of the above lines are not even proper Sanskrit. 

In his massive kalgidhar chamatkaar he has written some 50 pages on the gurus kavi darbaar with short bios on many of the poets

Bhai veer singh was a great scholar.  He did good service to the panth 

Yes sikhi doesn’t have a concept of democracy. There is a Meritocratic system for the most part 

Why interesting.  Show some examples 

Updated with four more charitars.

Purely narrative wise this charitar is intriguing.  You have a story, within a story, within a story, within a story.  Four layers at once. 

Could it be relating to the frame story saying here is the queen playing you both at once but one of you is “blinded”. An earlier charitar also talked about being blinded so there is some continuity here. 

Sikhi has become more homogenious in the past 100 years resulting in many heterodox Groups having left the panth over the generations. Our old discussion on why Sikhi failed to spread covers some of these Groups and dilemmas
 

Some Sikhs pre-Khalsa probably did keep long hair due to to it being an ancient Indian tradition but it was not part of the rahit. 

The sakhi is from suraj Prakash 

Yesterday I did some reading on the panchtantra and hitupdesha, both of which were translated in the guru darbaar. Both deal with rajniti through a series of animal fables. The hitupdesha was the first major book translated in the guru darbaar and pyara singh Padam found one manuscript from the 9th gurus darbAar 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitopadesha

Nice 

6 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

I have been reading Mahabharat again. I have come across something that is very close to the original CharitroPakhyan root story in resemblance.

When Arjun went to Inder lok, he met the King of the Gandharvs called "Chitar Sen". Whilst Arjun was there there was an apsara (again in the root story and also this apsara was the mother to the Pandav lineage) who wanted to have physical relations with him, but he refused saying that she was like his mother in status( again in the root story). She then cursed him because of his refusal. But she also admonished his for refusing "a woman who had threw herself at him (we saw this line repeated in Ch 21-23).

Very interesting. Cross textual reference

Two things that came to mind: 

1) our methods of analysis are far more advanced the further we get into each charitars.  In the first few charitars our methods are not that great. It’s as if the CP teaches and trains methods of analysis and interpretation

2) the notion that you have a story within a story is quite difficult for the mind to a absorb and keep control of.  When is the sub story giving a general message to the audience ? When is the message merely related to the king in the frame story ? Also you have to constantly keep the info of the frame story in mind and interpret and mirror all sub stories on the basis of the frame story. Balancing and juggling with these two stories at all times and remembering the details along the way is quite challenging and requires/forges a sharp intelligence.