amardeep

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There are different clips from "Thus spoke the Ustads" on youtube - check it out. Excellent work in progress by Kirat Singh who is also writing a PHD at SOAS on kirtan

I dont think there is any case of death of kirtan. On the contrary I see a revival amongst Sikhs wanting to learn the traditional arts of kirtan, especially in the west

If I remember correctly, they left Lahore unprotected. When you leave your Capital it Means you have surrendered as a state.

Yes it would have been better for him to have taken over the Malwa area but that would put him in a situation of bordering Delhi, - which would have put him in direct conflict with the British. I think he did the right thing in 1809 considering that he was still a small leader at the time. Having fixed a border with the British near the satluj meant that he could focus on areas like Multan, Kangra and Kashmir without having to worry about the British.

But yes, looking back, he should have taken the Malwa states.

Regardless of whether one believes in Dasam bani or not, many sections are pure treasure houses of poetic and musical beauty.
See this:

https://www.manglacharan.com/home/lyrical-dexterity-from-patshahi-10

Here is a live version

I came across some lines in Sarbloh Granth a few years back that went something like this:

..... sa sa sa

...... na na na

...... tha tha tha

....... kha kha kha

It did'n make sense to me back then,  but considering now it is used for music then it makes sense.

I think so yes. There are many such verses in Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth which are not words per se but rather the sounds of swords and drums etc. I think this is one such example of the sound of drums

Raag Darbari, begins at minute 02.00

Tadar Dani Dani Tum Dani Talal Tum Dirna

Dhagarhdee dhrum dhig taang dhagarhdhee dhim dhirnaa Bagarhdhee briktai baang taagarhdhee tum tum tum dirnaa dhagarhdhee dhai dhai taal ghagarhdee ghum ghirna dhagarhdee dum dum dheem bagarhdee brikat birna tadar dani dani tum dani talal tum dirna

40 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Did they run away or according to them it was more prudent to fight the guerrilla warfare with the invaders?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Since the misl leaders were the rulers of Punjab it was considered running away.

Also see this in regards to the Prem Sumarag Granth that says that the only thing a ruler will be juded on in the afterlife is how he secured justice and stability for his citizens. Not his personal life or anything else

Gurfateh

Check this video:

It reminds me of a sakhi from the Bansavalinama wherein Guru Gobind Singh divides Sikhs into four categories, The first at one spectrum on the left you have the the pious Sikhs, and at fourth on the other end you have the corrupt Sikhs who are willing to change and violate the Rahit for their own goals.. The sakhi then concludes, that is is the Sikhs of the fourth category that will bring political triumph to the panth.

Later Sikh history showed that a majority of the Misl leaders and Maharajas were 'corrupt' but still it was them indeed who brought about political triumph to the panth as they were carving out kingdoms...Simply because the game of politics does'nt allow for you to be a nice and decent guy, - everyone else will run you over and eat you.

Interesting video

What do you mean by a desi psychologist

Kavi Santokh Singh gives a plurality of meanings to the suniai lines, - the first being a praise of the art of listening. By listening (to peoplw with wisdoom and knowledge), the siddhs, peers, sur etc attained their high status. by listening to people of knowledge you aquire knowledge about the planets, solar systems etc.. So it has more of a secular tone to it - listen to people with knowledge.. However, the last meaning is given as specifically as listening to the name of God , hence a more of a spiritual meaning, which is also the one given by the normal english translation, Faridkot teeka (ਅਬ ਚਾਰ ਪੌੜੀਆਂ ਮੈਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨਾਮ ਦੇ ਸੁਣਨੇ ਦਾ ਮਹਾਤਮੁ ਕਥਨ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਂ), Sahib Singh teeka and Lucky's analysis above.

How funny, i've been looking at these verses over and over again in the last couple of weeks. Funny I was also interested in these verses back in 2008.

Exactly. He did what had to be done. When the Afghans invaded Punjab in the late 1790s, it was only him and a few other misl sardars who kept bay and fought back. Many Misl leaders ran away. Why should Maharaja Ranjit Singh engage with leaders in a Gurmata if they are not willing to defend their lands?

Quote

We run out breath, but don't stop elaborating on how Maharajah Ranjit Singh annihilated our quasi-democratic spirit (our brothers in blue only stop after their 10th wind); how autocracy is the bane of the Panth. But positing one individual jathedar above the rest of the Panth, isn't that autocracy?

I've never quite understood those who critisice Maharaja Ranjit SIngh for abolishing the Gurmata system. What else was he supposed to do? The misl leaders of his time were mostly focused on advancing their own cause and thereby stuck in internal warfare and petty chiftainship. Maharaja Ranjit Singh had greater ambitions for the panth. Had he continued the Gurmata system (of which many hardly even showed up to the meetings) Punjab would have continued being politically divided and most likely destroyed by the Afghans and British much sooner.

Kavi Santokh Singh mentions these three:

Namaskaaratmak, Aashirbad-atmak, and Vastu Nridesh

I think Gurbachan singh bhindranwale got this from the Garab Ganjani teeka from the 1820s

Regardless of it being from the 16th century or 18th century during the Sikh's rise to rule, this is such an interesting document as it highlights a Sikh view of politics and rule

There is only one verse by Guru Nanak wherein Baba Nanak occours

Page 155, Line 5
ਹਉ ਖਰੀ ਦੁਹੇਲੀ ਹੋਈ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਤ ਨ ਪੁਛੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हउ खरी दुहेली होई बाबा नानक मेरी बात न पुछै कोई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ha▫o kẖarī ḏuhelī ho▫ī bābā Nānak merī bāṯ na pucẖẖai ko▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I am totally miserable! O Baba Nanak, no one cares for me at all! ||1||Pause||
Guru Nanak Dev  

Interesting.  Can you provide some examples of where you find the language modern. 

I love this sentence, - similiar verses found in the Zafarnama:

Hakim kahavain, hakumat na hoi

They call you the ruler,  but you do not rule justly.