amardeep

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

It is not a must for a religion (based on modern understanding) to have only one scripture, one code of conduct, etc, or is it?

For example, a religion could have 3 primary texts, 10 code of conducts, various symbols, multiple dress codes, etc.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

According to the big Abrahamic religion there should be one scripture primarily.  Ie bible or Quran. I would argue the modern Sikh obsession in some circles with sola scriptura comes from a middle eastern perspective of what does it mean to be a religion. 

Punjab digital library has digitised a lot of manuscripts. Their work is invaluable to the panth 

There are many handwritten manuscripts in Punjab - both in library archives and private collections. I’ve seen some really impressive collections of manuscript at private collectors, including some from the kavi darbaar. Much stuff is not published unfortunately. 

Bro why don’t you go to the website and look yourself  I don’t know, I doubt it’s even published 

1 hour ago, samurai2 said:

@amardeep

Mate you live in some fantasy land.

Live in reality. Jagraj was all good, but who currently is Khalsa?? 

you've got moneh doing the ground work, where are the Singhs?

Mate listen to Dal Singhs indirect words, we are facing mafia esk operation..

wake up and smell it..smh 

I just used his Words - so dont know what he meant by it and what defition he had in mind. In any case, his point was that the girls did not feel they could turn to their own community for help. Then of course people can agree or disagree  whether this is true or not. People in the UK have much more knowledge of whether thats true or not.

The name is 'Jyotishsaar Granth' and in some of it's poetry he mimics the Chandi Charitar verses of Guru Gobind Singh wherein 14 different meanings of Hari is used.

I'm not sure what happened to the other 5 sons of Kavi ji.

24 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Where else have you seen any religious titan state the above in his composition?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I haven't seen it elsewhere. Thats why I said I assume that this might have been an Indian poetic tradition that Maharaj was following  (in the same way he followed the Indian tradition of writing in dohra, kabits, various chands etc.)

49 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Did he write any books?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Yes one on astrology and I think some independent poetry verses also

Singh I did not mean to victim blame so let me clarify. There is no doubt that the filthy perpetrators are the only ones to blame. It’s their actions alone. And you are absolutely right regarding breaking of law and the Sikhs being hard working people.  

The reason I mention the Sikh community having a responsibility (and notice I put them in as the third and last)  is due to them being targeted for 30+ years.  If someone breaks into my house for 10 years straight and after 8 years I still haven’t installed an alarm and often forget to close my windows,- then surely there should be some self-pondering right ? Bhai Jagraj Singh in one of his wake up calls talked about one of the Major problems being that “the girls don’t believe in the Khalsa anymore, they don’t believe the Khalsa will help them” (paraphrased from memory). This was one of the problems - that the girls didn think they could find help amongst their own. When Bhai sahib was here giving a two day camp we had long talks with him on this issue and he also stated the Sikh community should have been more alert and much earlier. Today the situation is different luckily. More girls turn to their own for help.  There is a greater focus amongst Sikh ngos such as Sikh awareness society, Sikh youth Birmingham, basics of Sikhi, Sikh helpline and individual parcharaks who work hard with the community, activism and authorities to stop this. 

Though I doubt the Sikhs ever did this due to the sacredness of Dasam Granth , - there are some 'editorial comments' in large sections of Dasam bani where it states that "if the poets find any errors, please correct and improve upon this Work'. I assume this is a literary tradition of humbleness in Indian literature, but it opens up the possibility of open-ended writings that can keep being added to.   I think this is why Pyara Singh regards the Panj Sau Sakhi as one such example as it contains many sakhis that deal with the invasions of Nadir Shah etc. 

You seem to be a no life that remembers everything you hear, yet you can’t put it in the right context. Me being interested in Islam was way back when I was a confused 17 year old kid – how you manage to add this in to todays conversation makes no sense unless you were purposefully trying to manipulate Samurai to turn him violently against me. You are a liar, a manipulator. What is a man worth if he can’t even stick to the truth? 

Seriously, writing all this gives me an impression that you are a rather lonely and pathetic guy. The age gap between us, your sad and lonely life situation, your cowardly behavior, your ego and signs of mental issues makes me wonder why you even prioritize this forum and your Internet war against me. You seem to have had such a pathetic life in the past 10 years, I wonder why the hell you seem so OCD focused on me – a simple and random forum admin on a website that barely has 10 active users!!. Leave me alone, I have no idea why you keep mentioning me in various posts; even the fact that grooming is an issue INTERNAL TO YOUR COUNTRY you still manage to drag me in to it.. Get a life. You got bigger issues to sort out in your pathetic life than how a random admin is running this forum. Unless SA is the place that provides meaning to your life, I have absolutely no idea why a man in his late 30s even spent so much time and energy on a website, when he should be spending the time with his wife, kids and family (unless she left you because she was quick to realize how pathetic you are).

You inciting violence against me was really the lowest you could go. There is no forgiveness for that. Sikh on Sikh violence is the most disgusting thing; - it has led to so much downfall in our history, yet you seem to think it's a good way to solve personal vendettas. Leave me alone, you are messed up man.

I honestly pray that the Guru blesses you with some morals, peace of mind and happiness. You really seem to need it. I will make sure to make that a part of my ardaas tomorrow, you have my word on that.

Rab Rakha Akal Sahai

Dal you got some ego and mental issues you need to sort out. The fact that you incited a Singh with anger issues to commit violence against me is a clear low. Even for you. Samurai said he wanted to beat me up and you sit there and provide him my real name, city I live in and my picture through videos. How pathetic is that?? You sit behind your screen and groom a younger Singh to do your dirty business? Have you no shame?? If you have an issue then face me like a man! At least be honest about why you gave him my name and photo rather than be a coward.

You say I look like a knob – at least I keep my kesh unlike you who could pass for a sulla any day. I’m really surprised despite all your learning and criticism of others, you still haven’t manned up to keep your kesh and face the world in a keshadhari roop. Instead you walk around like a cowardly mona. You betray your Guru every time you shave and still you have the audacity to sit and criticize the roop of others??? How pathetic are you??? What is your criticism even worth when you don’t even follow the basic rahit???

I am actually surprised at how old you are. I always assumed you were only a few years older than me. But you are actually some 12+ years older than me?  Don’t you feel awkward waging an internet war against someone that much younger than you?? Get a life man!  With the age gap between us, that would be like me waging a war against a 19 year old kid- how strange would that be?

A few weeks ago you tried to slam me saying I have no friends nor life apart from this forum. Are you kidding me?? Go to the top of the page and look at the stats for this forum. I have been on this forum for three years longer than you (that’s more than a 1000 days!) and yet you’ve written DOUBLE as many posts as me. In fact you are the top poster here on Sikhawareness, even surpassing Neo who has been here since 2003!!.

While I was most active here in my mid 20s (uni days where you have plenty of spare time), you’ve been most active while in your your mid-late 30s – a time where normal people would spend time with their wife, kids and family. Instead you seem to have spent your time on an online forum??? Are you for real??  A lot of the content of your posts are about going to the gym, your cats and dogs, experiment with new diets, gardening, gym workout etc. This is normally stuff that you talk to your friends and family about. But you post it here? I seriously wonder whether you have any friends in real life since this is the kind of stuff you bring to the table. Why are you even accusing me of having no friends or life outside this forum when in fact this is the low sad situation that describes the past 10 years of your life???

5 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

You think I give a crap about that? Get real. It's your rubbish style of site administration that's the problem. But it's cool, N30's back, and we know to keep an eye on you now. 

 

Why are you talking like a moron again?  If the problem in the OP is as rampant as is being made out (do you think  it is exaggerated or something?), we all need to play a part and not play it down or sweep it under the rug like has been done for years. Hell, even the establishment here seems to have bent over backwards to cover up for these groomers (for decades) so this is no simple thing. But koi na, you can just bury your head in flowery Persian literature and pretend it's no big issue. 

By the way, you must have serious mental issues yourself (or at least a feeble brain and personality) given your near conversion to Islam. 

Who is inciting violence? If you ever bump into me, and you've got a problem, go for it. If you've got any connections I won't be hard to find. Personally I'd rather focus on more pressing issues myself, but have it your way. 

 

PS - I only put that vid up to show what a proper knob looks like.

Enough is enough - focus on the serious issue here. 

Dal it is pretty obvious that the sad situation of grooming of Sikh girls is particular to the UK and thereby primarily an internal issue for the Sikh community there. There is no other Western country where you see this problem, especially one that has been going on for 20-30 years!

There is no doubt that there are at least three actors responsible here: 1) The filthy perpetrators, 2) the Muslim community for failing to clean up their own mess and 3) the UK Sikh community (which includes you!) for failing to safeguard their own members.  With you posting this video it would be reasonable to have a discussion on WHY grooming of Sikh girls is still going on after 20-30 years. Here it would be useful for you, Samurai and others from the UK to give your views. Because this is a problem particular to the country YOU are living in and have been brought up in, and you should have been able to deal with it for the past 30 odd years. How in the hell you managed to blame the situation on me is beyond my thinking. I don’t even LIVE in your country!! As always you just blame everyone else and fail to take any responsibility and action. You’re nothing but a pathetic Internet warrior. who has no moral issues telling lies.

Do you really think you exposing pedophiles online is going to change anything? This weird reasoning of yours is exactly my point. You don’t do anything in real life, your life is based on Internet activities. You just sit there and criticize everyone and the highest amount of work you’ve done is to sit on a website (that barely has 10 active members) and expose pedophiles?? How has your online activities on Sikhawareness been of any help to Sikh girls in the UK? Get out in the real world and do something useful for others!

Seriously I have no idea how you managed to turn this internal UK problem into being something about me. You must have had a bad day (which seems to have happened quite often this year no??)

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Mahakavi Santokh Singh jee? Bhai Karam Singh Historian?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

No Kavi Santokh Singh had 6 children, one of them, Jai Singh, was an adept scholar himself in Sanskrit and astrology. 

Books like these have been added to over the years as never-ending stories.  You see the same in Sanskrit books where there are different layers of historical inputs.  Pyara Singh Padam says the same about the panj sau sakhi - originally begun in the Anandpur darbaar and then kept being added to over the decades.  

The Aladin was not part of the original manuscript but was added by the Europeans in the 18th century 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin

5 minutes ago, paapiman said:

May be the wise minister is trying to convey a message to Chitar Singh via the character of the Mughal in this tale.

If you (Chitar Singh) go ahead with the death penalty and then later regret it, none of your subjects will have any sympathy for you. In this tale too, the people made fun of the distressed Mughal, even though he was the innocent party in this case.

They (subjects) might say "why did you trust your wife over your son in the first place" (notice the similarity with this tale - "why had you taken loan from him"). 

They might say "how could a son (prince) rape his step mother (queen)" (notice the similarity with this tale "If you had borrowed money from some one, how could he steal from you?").

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Good observation of likeness 

26 minutes ago, paapiman said:

ਉਪਠੀ means ਉਲਟ  (opposite).

ਉਲਟ ਨਦਰਿ would refer to unacceptable/harsh glance, which could allude to angry glance, unkind glance, unmerciful glance, etc.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Yes I got it as opposite also.  

I just hate translations that describes God as angry, wrath, happy etc like some emotional figure that keeps changing mood. 

6 minutes ago, paapiman said:

ਨਦਰਿ ਉਪਠੀ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾ ਘਾਹੁ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ॥

If he should cast an angry glance, He can transform kings into blades of grass.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Beautiful.  Where/whats  the word for angry in this sentence ? 

I like this one. It talks of the often discussed notion from Gurbani of how one can go from high to low in no time. How social and power structures can change in the blink of an eye.  

This one I find a bit tricky. What’s the lesson/message to contemplate here ?

Is there anything to suggest that Arabian nights was read and studied in Mughal India ?

He also fails to live up to the standards of honour of both caste/class that he belongs to/pretends to belong to.   

The translation is a bit confusing.  

The gist of the story is a man of one of the highest religious  caste who presents himself to the people as an aristocrat - one of the highest secular classes. He manages to fool both the people through his welfare work but also the king.  He is doing good charitable work but in order to blind and fool people.

I think the charitar deals with people who are engaged in good deeds but Only so to pave the way for later fraud.

This is quite an interesting story. It also talks about how your senses can fool you.