curious_man

the nitnem or any audio file on gursevak.com is read slow.. its so slow that u have time in between words to repeat.

step1. listen and read baalupdesh instead of nitnem. that will teach u muharni ( practice for pronunciation of each letter with lagmaatras)

then move on to nitnem. if u need contact number of bhagat ji (jaswant singh ji) please feel free to message me and u can talk to him directly.. he will be more happy to help u.

or give me ure number and he will call u.

hope to talk to u soon !! 

please have a look at www.gursevak.com

online santhiya.. :)

Source: www.gursevak.com

Sukhmani Sahib Arth Pothi - Bhagat ji

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Please read the health pothi from page 29. It has all the Gurbani tuks pertaining to health with meanings. Get the laahaa.

Sikhkhoj... if you are happy with your interpolation... then so be it!

All I wanted to say is that its not written explicitly about not reading bani while walking.. thus interpolations come into play..

u r taking it as not reading while walking.. i m taking it as just a kautak for one time just to set up a maryada..

its just the tone that comes from ure arguments about dissing and doing nindya of Baba Gurbachan Singh ji. hence i put it up for the sangat to decide whether he told explicitly or not.

anyways.. rabb raakha.. theres other more valuable learning posts in this forum.. than finding faults (based on your interpolation) in DDT leaders.

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SIKHKHOJ...

i will be discussing only one point here.. and then we would move on if you want to. i gonna answer the kirtan sohila doubt.. please stick to that and lets clear that point!

Scenario-

mom - beta u might get hurt while going to kitchen and drinking water in night, so from now on switch on the lights and then go to kitchen at night for water.

son - mom, does that mean i cannot drink water during the day?

mom - yes u can during the day, but at night.. always turn on lights.

sikhkhoj - getting confused.. says ure mom is saying ONLY to drink water at night with lights on..not to drink during day. ure mom is crazy. blah blah

so my friend.. tell me does it makes sense?

Guru sahib, did a kautak with his sikh (just as he did many other kautaks like blood and milk from rotis,, etc)

and every kautak was for a message. this kautak according to oral tradition was for setting up a maryada to do nitnem at night.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN ONE CANT DO IT DURING DAY. this means it MUST be done in night before sleep.. in addition u can do it as many times during 24hrs.

NOW, u were saying Baba Gurbachan ji said not to do paath while walking.. tell me where is it written in the pages i attached explicitly.

Please don't give false accusation against him atleast on this point in your future posts.

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This has been dragged too much!!

SIkhkhoj ji... please do the khoj correctly. Attached is the Kirtan sohila sakhi from the source u are mentioning. Please let the sangat know that in which line Sant ji says not to read kirtan sohila anytime except at night.

He said.. that from this uthaanka.. a maryada of reading Sohila sahiib at night was set. It doesnt say that it has to be read ONLY in night.

I have been fortunate to spend time with direct students of Baba Gurbachan ji.. and they keep reciting Gurbani.. whole day.. whole night.. everytime.. including.. walking.. eating (listening at that time).. exercising.. driving.. doing kheti.. bathing.. while playing soccer ..lol.. while hiking.. and sleeping (listening Bani at high volume).

And we are not here to search "mistake" in the DDT books.. u have seen the "mistake".. then show us and then we would be glad to have a vichaar on it.

Please introspect it yourself first.

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It was a brilliant movie. Just saw it yesterday. The scenic beauty was awesome. Siddhs were shown as if they were truely real. What I liked was that the language used was good. Not the common punjabi used today. They used the pakistani punjabi/pathani/hindi ..the way it used to be.

I liked it, though a lot could be improved, but this was just beginning. More refinement needed from spirtual and factual side. Maybe in futurewe see a movie like "the message".

kutastha: the immovable, unchanging spirit (literally "standing at the top."

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I need contact information for Amrit sanchar by ajnala damdami taksal

And where is Amrit sanchar done by mohan Singh bhindrawale ji? Is it in boparai kalan? I wud need there contact info too if possible.

When is the Amrit sanchar in January?? Any particular dates?

I m planning to come to India in the week of amrit sanchar. So I have to book tickets.

Thanksss

-edited-

posted by mistake.. MODS can delete my post

THIS TOPIC IS FOR MANGALYAAN. if nothing to say about it or in general Mars exploration then open a new thread.

Thanks

regardless wherever india stands.. atleast from the point of view of space missions.. India needs appreciation.

CONGRAAATS to all Indians and the team which showed the hardship and dedication for this mission.

The whole mission cost was less than the cost of movie "gravity" !!!!

i did engineering and i remember when myself and my team had to spend countless nights just to program a dumb robot's movement..lol

Why do you say so? Are you under duress? Anyway, you are wrong here.

sir ji, i said only from the very limited point of view of policevaley. they were ordered to suppress movement. just like soldiers go and invade a country.. even if they dont want to do it.. but just do it for the sake of job.

i condemned those corrupted big bad apples who ordered such police actions.

i hope tht clears my point.

i agree chatanga!!

the point is that both sides (sikhs and govt.) had done some wrong and some right.. the govt. could have avoided 84 attack and later nov 84 massacre.. but tht was govt fault..

reaction was the kharkoo movement came in full power.. doing right by raising voice and arms against the useless system.. but bad was that some "immature kharkoos" joined the group.. just for the sake of a safe haven,, no job, frustration, some relative died.. wht to do.. join kharkoo just take revenge.. thus causing errors in operations too...

for example.. there are real gianis and then there are gianis just for filling up belly for free .. black cats took this as advantage!

leaders were great.. i cannot say about the subordinates.. i m not blaming nor giving them credit.. i just dont know!!

so ppl like sher.. should also look on both sides.. not just hindus r grt ...hindus did this good ...hindus did this help...

theek aa.. but no matter what.. sikhs were the majority, way bigger majority, who faced the brutality and were killed legally or illegaly or rather mockingly (if u see jaswant khalras photos where one sikh guy is killed while wearing a bride's red dress).

so if sikhs say that the system atleast during the 80s and 90s was not favourable to the sikhs of atleast punjab then sikhs are not wrong.

killings did happen in delhi and surrounding area.. but my dad was working in bombay and he had to take 4 days off from work and be in home 24/7 just with a fear.. now i wud say it was govt fault which was unable to handle the situation thus causing FEAR IN INDIA FOR ALL SIKHS.

again.. books of both sides should be read.. ppl of both sides should be talked with.. my frends dad was in army and was posted in punjab during those years.. as i told earlier.. if 5 kharkoos were caught .. 20 more were killed because there might be 1 more kharkoo..

such was the mentality.

o rehn do veero.. jaswant singh khalra has given enough evidence for illegal cremations and killings and most of them (i would say almost all) were sikhs (youth, old, teenage, children, bibis)...

so.. atleast one thing is clear that innocent sikhs have been killed way way more than hindus.

moreover, its good that police was able to suppress the movement.. they had to do it cuz thats the duty of police.. they introduced black cats etc thats all police strategy.. we cant blame them

but i wont accept that police was 100% honest as well.. there were some big bad apples in the police along with corrupt govt. which were killing the judicial system just for financial or prestige issues.. if 2 kharkoos had to be killed/captured.. 20 were held in that place.. if 2 were real kharkoos, 20 were claimed by police to be kharkoos, and you all know the fake encounters etc.

so.. thats indian mentality, corruption deep embeded in our hearts, first fighting themselves, then slaves of moghuls, then britishers, now politicians i thought AAP wud change the picture, but now its too stuck in the mud.

**myself born and raised in mumbai, gurdaspur and delhi before anyone says i m from north america confused desi

jumma is muslim's community day of prayer = friday

Gheo, roti and daal (daal is lots of carbs), is the staple food for us. And yes without tadhka. I have lost 10 kg in 6 months and not skipped dal, thats my protein with carbs too

so saturated fats and high carbs no problem as long as u r exercising and the food is simple (one of my relative used to eat french fries in desi ghee , now thts not simple saada food. He stopped now ). But if u r still gaining weight then I guess u r eating in "excess" and thus reduce it. simple, but does take some time to monitor and control the diet.

aho. haldi de laahe hi laahe. Attached file from health pothi by Bhagat ji. get the full one from gursevak.com

haldi - Health Pothi.pdf

Thanks for the great replies. Sorry for being late, I was not in town.

is it this one?

Good find savinderpal ji. Thats the one, though its from sanskrit to english. Pandit Gulab Singh ji translated Krishna Mishra's work from sanskrit to braj. I am reading a teeka for this work.

You need to understand the knowledge of Brahmn comes from connecting with Brahmn. You have to meditate on Brahmn to gain the knowledge. So merely thinking about it is like delving in to mud. Thinking about it is good but you have to meditate at some point. Only by meditating can you come out as a lotus.

When you said that (in quotes), I knew you had exhausted your thinking. THIS is a good time to begin meditation. At any time when thinking becomes temporarily exhausted, when " " happens, you should go into your atma and rest there. And there the knowledge is obtained. Try to access this place again and again.

I totally agree. I felt like i was dozing and u just shaked me up Yes, Gurprasad I'll try to put more time in simran and I hope the time will soon come when I update this thread with my own conclusion . Thanks.

The first issue is that Brahmn cannot be defined. Because a definition itself entails a restriction, and Brahmn is unrestricted, He has no limits.

Brahmn cannot be talked about so easily. He can only be experienced and tasted. You can taste sugar but you cannot describe this taste to someone who has never touched sugar.

So Brahmn when talked about has different definitions depending on the situation and background, and on concepts that are being explained.

I agree. Aap aapnee Budh Hai Jaytee, Barnat Bhinn Bhinn Tuhe Taytee||

You don't create agyan, it arises with the lack of gyan. And gyan/knowledge here refers to the tasting of Brahmn not to any intellectual capacity.

For agyan to exist all Brahmn has to do is create beings who have a smaller perspective than He does. A smaller, narrower perspective has agyan of the bigger perspective.

By smaller perspective I mean, the beings have a perspective that is focused around themselves - Atma. And because they are a very small part of the entire creation, their perspective is narrowed.

So the sum total of all the smaller perspectives is the largest perspective - Brahmn. Thus, Agyan process is in Brahmn, but He is ultimately Sat. The Sun gives off light but each individual molecule that reacts to give off such light is dark. On some level even the Sun has darkness. parts - dark, whole - light

Light and dark are dualities. Ignorance and knowledge are dualities. Brahmn transcends all dualities.

So, its like saying that Brahmn is Sarvagya while jeev is Alpagya. And this alpagyatta is the cause of agyan. Ocean can see all drops, but drops cant see the whole ocean. So, from Ocean (Brhmn) point of view, there is no agyan. Agyan is only from drops (jeev) point of view. Thts y the word kalpit is used, and that too from the jeev point of view. – Have I inferred it corectly?

"HE is in sun smadhi and thus afur, and creation just happens"

Sun Samadhi by definition is a moment when He is not creating but enjoying Nothingness. If He was creating, then it wouldn't be called Sun Samadhi.

"creation just happens"

If it happens how is it anaadi?

I might have not used proper words, but I mean to say that, as you said earlier, Brhamn created universe spontaneously and Gurbani says that universe is not anaadi, hence, it has been created.

So, there must have been a time when there was no creation. But, at the time of such “Nothingness”, Brahmn is in sun smadhi and thus afur.

So, you mean to say that even in such afur avastha/sun smaadhi, He is spontaneously creating universe??? (which contradicts afur avastha/sun smaadhi)??

What is your definition of Furna?

Furnaa according to me is a thought that arises even if you are not relating to that thought. For example, you are studying calculus with full concentration in the middle of night and suddenly a thought comes to mind that you want to have a double chocolate fudge icecream.

Thts a furnaa, even though ure actions and the continuous streamline of thoughts are nowhere related to icecream, but it still comes up because sometime in the past u had such icecream or u had a will to have such icecream and thus got registered. And since, most people without meditation cant control such furnaas hence they encounter it.

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wah wah, wonderful analogy and experience!! thx for the reply.

yes i know the meaning of kalpit, but i wanted to know why the word kalpit is used in this context?

1.it could have been explained that agyaan is not present in akaalpurakh (then does HE "creates" agyaan?)

2.it is present (how come satchitanand roop has agyaan.. tht means HE is not sat?)

if creating universe is without furna and it is HIS nature to create, then what about the time when there was Nothingness? if we say, that creation is HIS nature as HE is in sun smadhi and thus afur, and creation just happens, then that means creation is anaadi (beginningless) but thats not the case as per Sukhmani's 21st astpadi and raag Maroo Mehla 1.

so HE must had a furnaa (is ਫੁਰਨਾ different than ੲਿੱਛਾ?) due to the presence of agyaan. but agyaan is not present in brahmn --- u see thats a vicious circle going back to points 1&2?

or is it just me getting too much inside this mud?

what tika is that?

prabodh chandrodya natak.

sikhiseeker ji,

i doubt u wud get an answer from any viashnava as sikhs are not vaishnav

i agree with ure post and the post i made earlier is quoted

but all i say is that eating meat for svaad is not gurmat. Eating meat has been for survival (that too self jhatka and not going to market and buying chaanp or leg piece from shops or kfc or frozen, total unbibek), during jang times if needs arises. else satoguni bhojan is best for spiritual upliftment.

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and Lucky ji .. no to khulla maas!!

infact from my vichar with gursikhs.. first of all saada simple plain bhojan (so ofcourse meat, fried food, spicy, too sweet are out), if because of medical conditions u need to eat meat for some time then u can (avoid khulla maas if u can), and of course i guess during jung times for survival as per our history.

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well..

if Braham is afur, then how can there be a furnaa of creation?

--- example is given of iron piece. Iron piece is "afur", but when a magnet is placed near it, it starts doing action (movement of coming near to magnet). in the same way, when agyaan has "kalpit sambandh" with braham, then braham gets a furnaa.

the same thing is explained by harbhajan singh dhudikey waley in rut 5 adhyay 42 (aatam gyan vichar) of suraj prakash granth Agyaan explained from 39:00 - 41:30 .

www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_%28Dhudikey%29/Sri_Gurpartap_Sooraj_Parkash_Granth/Patshahi_10_-_Sri_Guru_Gobind_Singh_Ji/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.%28Dhudikey%29--205.Sooraj.Prakash.Katha.-.Rut.05.Adhyai.42.-.Aatam.Vichar.mp3

singhs ask pyara bhai dya singh ji about what is agyaan. it is explained tht agyaan is without shape, is not born, kalpit maatar hi braham de ik desh vich rehnda hai, unjj braham ch nahi hounda.

my doubt is in the word "kalpit". wht does it mean? how can it be that "lets assume there is agyaan".. either agyaan is in braham or not.. if not then how come there is furna..? if yes, then how come agyaan is in braham which is satchitanand..

infact this is one of the point where advaitists get hammered by other school of thoughts!!

u got my point?

WJKK WJKF,

I was reading a puratan teeka and the teekaar poses a doubt and then answers it. But the answer was not clear for me, so i m asking you all to clear it for me..

it is generally said in all puratan teekay that when oh ik braham nu jad furna hoya ki sansar di utpati kiti jaye then sansar came into being and they quote "eko han baho syam prajaye ye". then teekakar poses a question.. plz see the attached file.

dhanvaad!

no , plants are self aware hey feel and communicate

science has prooved it

http://www.treehugger.com/gadgets/plants-are-talking-and-these-sensors-let-us-hear-what-theyre-saying.html

science proves that a person cannot live without head..

i guess u know abt baba deep singh more that me..

science proves that grains do not have blood or milk,

guru nanak ji proved science wrong..

science proves no soul...

actually this is not abt science (vidya) its about brahmvidya..

wht guru sahib and gursikhs have said, wud never be wrong but you know science keeps changing..and this is what makes science progressive.

again dont mix science into spiritual study, these are different fields like accounting science arts.. plants rocks are in 7th state of ignorance hence no dukh sukh, if it is supposed that they react because of pain on getting plucked then whts the use of such reaction if they have not evolved to move away, hide, make noise, send defence mechanism, so thts just a natural reaction.

read some articles against this "pants hearing"!!

oh yes.. i agree with bhagat singh : "It's quite simple, if being a vegetarian is not working for you, then don't do it."

WJKK WJKF,

This jhatka prakash granth have been refuted topic by topic in the maas nishedh granth. Anywys, most of the points from this JP granth is historical.. u should know that historical granths dont have full authority.

These historical granths states a lot of contradictory topics.. like gursikhs eating meat (as quoted in the JP granth),

gursikhs not eating meat (pritham tajaho aamikh ko khaana, karho jaas hit jeevan haana||7|| sabh raakash ko naam japayo, aamikh khaan tinahe tajvaayo||18||, guru nanak prakash, adhyay 55)

suraj prakash granth, raas 1, ansoo 26 - updesh of guru Angad Dev ji to Sheehe against meat eating and saved 100 goats (itne jeevan hinsaa karai, paap bisaal apan sir dharai ||7|| and lot more)

guru sahib condemning rituals, guru sahib doing shraadh,

guruji saying no to intoxicants, guru sahib getting intoxicated,

guru sahib saying no to jewellery, gur sahib wearing earrings,

different granths describing amrit sanchar in differently (kirpan, or khanda?)

so many doubts come to mind...

the best way as per baba hari singh ji randhaway wale explained is to do vichaar on gurbani.. and only after conclusion, we should try to fit the historical verses in the conclusion, if they fail, they shld be out.

read the meanings of any shabad regarding diet.. if doubt share it on this forum and we all will do veechar.

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are meat eating sikhs not sikhs?

I have no hate, as long as they following akaal takhat maryada, we all are khalsa.

but all i say is that eating meat for svaad is not gurmat. Eating meat has been for survival (that too self jhatka and not going to market and buying chaanp or leg piece from shops or kfc or frozen, total unbibek), during jang times if needs arises. else satoguni bhojan is best for spiritual upliftment.

WJKK WJKF