das

You are right. Only God knows what actually happened. I heard that sakhi in one of the deewans of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji.

3 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

Wouldn't that imply there were two entites,

Yes, it does imply that there were two entities from OUR-point-of-view as both of them are playing their part in the big plan. The two entities are: GuruJi as we know Him and His upper state manifestation Akaal (in Sakar roop).

Qus: Now the question arises why there is a need to exist in some form/shape. Nirankar could just sort out everything (punish wrong, reward good, mukti etc. etc.) by just a furna without ever taking a form; why HE need to send Gurus/Sants in the first place in the lower words to help souls to remember their Nij ghar?

Ans to me: I still have hard time to see all the sufferings around the world (child raps, children hungry, and so on....) and still believe that there is God (the way we perceive Him). I can't remember the tuk which says something like: "Bhagat ke bandi kaun chudave......" which literally means who would save us from the order of Bhagats.

In order to calm down my monkey mind, I tell him.....Kaal (Time/Mind) did the worship of Nirankar and won the reward of the rulership of 3 worlds and have also taken certain promises from Nirankar. Now, the Nirankar does have to fulfill all His promises towards Kaal along with a plan to make sure that the Jeev Atmas does have a chance to come back without breaking the protocols of lower words.

So, in other words, Gurus/Sants/Form-Shapes are there to make sure that we understand as per our limited senses. So, it means in order not to break the protocols of lower-worlds, Nirankar needs to tone down in chain-reaction to Nirankar --> Akaal --> Guru Nanak --> and so on.....i.e Middle Pillar path within the 3 worlds. Same way we have to be at the child's level to teach him something which he'll always remember; we cannot afford to stay at our level and expect that the child would understand. May be that's the reason Guru Nanak Dev Ji said:

ਮਃ  ੫  ॥
ਨਾਨਕ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ  ਭੇਟਿਐ  ਪੂਰੀ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਜੁਗਤਿ  ॥
O Nanak, meeting the True Guru, one comes to know the Perfect Way.

ਹਸੰਦਿਆ  ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ  ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ  ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ  ਵਿਚੇ  ਹੋਵੈ  ਮੁਕਤਿ  ॥੨॥
While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, he is liberated. ||2||

3 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

Plus doesn't Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji state in Sidh Gosht that his guru is, "Shabad Guru, Surat Dhun Chela"

I asked the exact same question to Spiritual guide couple of years back and the response was something along with lines: It was supposed to be an example so that we can understand and not the only truth.

Actually, if we take this tuk at face-value (without going into deep), then we do have questions:
- Where is the Shabad? We might be very quick to say: It's within us......but still the question remains: there are so many stages/states/levels with so many different dhunis and so on. We may wrongfully call any sound that we're hearing in meditation as Shabad; but who is going to tell us the difference between real Shabad vs others?
- Surat needs to follow the Duni (but which duni and what place). It is a Maya/Illusion world, without the real Sant, it is very easy to get distracted by false illusions. How do we know that the Source from which Duni is coming is appropriate and not leading to dead-end? And even if the Duni/shabad that Guru Nanak Dev Ji is talking about is the same as we understood. Duni is a big thing, but our useful/useless mind can't even distinguish between simple optical illusions, what to talk about THE SHABAD.

Moreover, even Shabad cannot travel to the Nirankar. Shabad is the boat which will carry us across the ocean whose malah(driver) should be the Guru/Sant but once we cross the ocean (3 worlds) then the purpose of Shabad/boat is served and we no longer have to carry the Shabad; same way as we don't carry the boat on shoulders after crossing the river. Then it is Guru/Sant's responsibility to do our marag darshan.

Obviously, this is all theory as per my understanding at this-point-in-time and cannot gurantee anything.....I might be totally wrong......but this is the current reality for me from my current point-of-view.

ਇਸ  ਮਨ  ਕਾ  ਕੋਈ  ਜਾਨੈ  ਭੇਉ  ॥
Does anyone know the secret of this mind?

2 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

This sakhi may have been watered down for the average person.

You may be right, but all the interpretations (how and where BabaJi went or Samadhi etc.) has one common element and we're missing that by indulging in how and where. i.e He took instructions from His Guru (call it Nirankar, Sakar). He may have gone to Sachkand or in Samadhi on Nirankar or something like this.

Moreover, there are other pointers that we can take from Guru Nanak Dev Ji's:

- He started udasis only after this incidence

- In all of Guru Ji's bani, he did recommended the society of Sants

1 hour ago, Kirankaur1 said:

thinking that I don’t deserve it 

Again don't let your Mind ruin the game. Identify that it is YOU who is allowing your mind to run the game. Don't fight, just work with it.......e.g If you're getting bad/different thoughts, tell him that he is free to go/think anything that he likes, but you're NOT going along with it....i.e not thinking about the thought he introduced. Moreover, negative thinking is the biggest enemy. But do NOT expect that someone else will come and help you, HELP YOURSELF.

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 9:52 PM, Kirankaur1 said:

yes I do saas saas and mental japa quietly. But when I sit to focus on shabad, my mind starts focusing on different areas of the body. One more thing I need to tell that whenever I sit down to do Simran, something in middle inside of my head starts spinning, afterwards I can’t handle that pressure and I have to stop meditation. Moreover, I feel energy in my whole body especially in my eyes. When I cover my eyes with hands I see lines like we see on ECG report. It’s very hard to explain. But I can surely say that it is energy. Thats why I get more afraid. Am I getting these things to early? I heard that if someone  get them on early stage.  they can’t handle it and also they get mentally disturbed. Please explain more on it. 

In order to understand the solution to YOUR meditation issue, first, YOU need to personally feel the examples below (not exactly but something which you personally can relate to, otherwise its just a theory which is waste).

e.g Let's say you need to go somewhere urgently for an very concerned task and the only way to go there is via bus and but there is only one bus which goes to your destination; you go to the bus-stand to catch the bus and you see it just started. Now, you ran very fast for about half kilometer but eventually got on the bus. The moment you got on the bus, there is a calmness for few minutes (even though you're still worried to your concerned task once at the destination but for that moment you forgot your destination and just enjoy what you've achieved). The moment of this calmness is "Let it go"; because you got on the bus in-time.

Another example might be: You're in rush to go somewhere and you've an urgent need to use the washroom. The moment you use the washroom, there is a couple of seconds where one enjoys the relief (without thinking of next urgent task on hand).

Same way, wherever you feel unbalanced/irritating/uncomfortable energy during meditation; just let it go. Do NOT try to do something, do NOT try to think of something.....just be in the moment. Look for that short moment of calmness and enjoy it (as explained in the above examples). BE THERE and enjoy while the Universe/Guide/Guru is planning your next move and thinking about how HE would be able to help you......JUST BE THERE AND RELAXED....think of it as an Art and not War.

paapiman: Why don't you register some thing like: www.AnythingOrEverythingVsSikhism.com where you can just compare any/all things with box-wali-Sikhi??

From my personal experiences, it seems like the real Sikh religion is already lost. What we've now is the corpse and even we (so-called care-takers) are actually eating it. I always wonder what Guru Nanak would write about today's so-called Sikhs if HE chooses to come again and preach. I'm pretty sure that today's Sikhs will stone Guru Nanak about saying anything against their pre-conceived MIS-understandings.

But if you think about it: This is nothing new, every religion/stream/group starts from Real and then eventually with the power of Maya; it reduces to mere concepts which people use to debate but no-one is willing to dive into the deepths. That's how matrix works.

Someone really explained Why Religion is both good and evil...

Religion is the Wal-Mart of spirituality. Wal-Mart helps get global goods into pretty much every town, it’s easily accessible to all. People can buy goods with little effort. They can have a job whereas previously there were few jobs in town. But at the same time, Wal-Mart is a parasite that kills other small businesses, exploits its workers, and leads to the problem of slave workers overseas. Low Prices here comes with high price to living conditions elsewhere.

Same with religion. It has convenient books anyone can read, convenient answers, buildings you can go to, people who preach to you as you just get to sit and listen. It helps bring the potential for spirituality to MANY more people who otherwise would be too lazy or isolated (in terms of location or access to literature) to hear of it. Therefore it’s a mass solution that, ultimately, aims for quantity over quality. But the price is that other smaller, perhaps more spiritual streams of knowledge, can become denied to these followers.
For instance, someone becomes Christian… they get indoctrinated with the Bible, then are told Gnostics are agents of the devil. There, the entire stream of Gnostic spirituality has just been denied them. Thus they are like people who could once only crawl on their belly until religion handed them a crutch, then they were able to hobble around, but the crutch made them dependent so that they could never walk or run. It’s a help in the short term, that hurts in the long term.

1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

Sure, but so were some congress workers, as well as muslims.

So true in general. Any act (good/bad) is done by a person and therefore should not be dogmatically associated to certain association. Obviously, when the person belongs to certain association, the association's name is bound to be used. But in general, it is the Person's Act and sometimes collection of persons do run associations on the shared principles which eventually gets corrupted. This line of thinking always help in all situations.

I think that the awakening might be fantastic (only when one reaches), but the process is very destructive, cruel, and sometimes depressing. Every bit as we know it: be it culture, religion, truth is damn wrong in the real light of Spiritualism; I found the following quote very real.

"Enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier.
Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing through the facade of pretense.
It's the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true." - Adyashanti

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:57 AM, sarabatam said:

Your thoughts?

Isn't this the mind's habit?

Desire to attain the thing which has given us enjoyment/happiness; and there is no enjoyment greater than Spiritual experience. Our Mind thinks (that's the only thing he does) that we can have the same experience if we do all the hard work of meditation and may be if we've less distractions then it would be better.

Yes, in reality it would be better but that's NOT how the Matrix operates.
e.g [ There was method of drawing water from a kind of well in which a wheel is pulled by horses or bulls, and it brings up the water. Once a horseman came with his horse and wanted his horse to drink water. That horse was thirsty and wanted to drink water, but the noise scared the horse and it would jump. So, the horseman asked the proprietor to the well, "Will you please stop this noise so my horse can drink?" The proprietor replied, "But if this noise stops then the water will also stop." Same way if we expect the whole world to behave nicely or have less distractions, and think that then we will be able to meditate, forget it! Or if we expect that we'll get some extra-time apart from our daily chores, then we're wrong. We should do meditation while doing our duties towards our family. ]

The Secret (do NOT tell anyone) is: The sustenance of Spiritual enjoyment does NOT come from our attachment to that Spiritual experience or hard work alone. It comes from Kirpa and Kirpa comes when all of our hard-work/techniques/thinking have exhausted and at the end we understood that there is not other way around it we just Surrender.

All the other things: like kirat-karo, accept the will, do your duty etc. sounds like it is the way to reach higher states, but the point is: These sayings are merely pointers stating that you're just the puppet in the hands of Environment you're in (Matrix/Maya/Illusion). Everything (some had to do hard-work to earn little money and some needs very light work to earn lakhs, diseases, relationships, finances, careers etc.) is bound to our previous karma. So, instead of fighting with the environment to overcome some issues, just accept whatsoever it is AND at the same time continue your seeking; eventually we'll get what you really seek for: Kirpa.

There is another Big question
- Do you have a choice to ignore your duties? I guess not unless one wants to ignore the needs of the near and dear ones and are ready to let them suffer because of our desire of non-desire.

So, at-least for me: I want to go away from these worldly affairs (family, career, and all that) but I do NOT have the guts to leave my duties/punishments as I don't wish my children to suffer. There is a saying in Punjabi: "Gaal paya drum te vajana he penda ha" i.e "You've to perform the task that is given to you against your will"; in other words, here is the brief:

1. We've to perform our duties (or whatever you call it) because there is no other choice.
2. Secondly, as we've to perform the duty, then why not perform it with happiness and enjoyment. In-fact, perform the duties cheerfully, selflessly, without attachment. It will bring Contentment (believe me it is very great experience)

And here are some things that I DO KNOW but do NOT practice and therefore I didn't take advantage of these; but may be you want to. In other words, it is Theory or Borrowed-Knowledge and NOT Self-Knowledge.

How to be always Happy

First create a condition in which we are always happy but that requires human effort. There are 4 happiness giving techniques: Veerag, Patience, Contentment, and Vichar. Contentment is the first and foremost virtue that should be cultivated. It comes only when we have done our duties to our fullest capacity and selflessly without worrying for the results. It is a virtue that always helps and never disappoints the seeker.

Secondly, don't fret over the past and don't be worried about the future. The present is going on.

Thirdly, Happiness is within and the source is the center of consciousness, love, and wisdom. Try to get Self-Knowledge. Life is very short and we should learn to enjoy every moment by remembering the Lord of Life, and always assuming our body to be a shrine of His living presence. We are not body, we are Soul which is always in Bliss.

I guess that's enough of ranting.......

1 hour ago, MysticMonist said:

So census numbers doesn't prove one's truth of revelation. God is present to all of us,

Your line reminded me of a one songs' line as:

Aithe bandyan de rabb bahute ne Par rabb da banda koi nahi

There are couple of quotes from Socrates that I personally like:

Question: What should be discussed?
- Strong minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, Weak minds discuss people.

Question: Where to learn from?
- Smart people learn from everything and everyone, Average people from their experiences, Stupid people already have all the answers.

Question: How to change the bad habits?
- The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the New.

On 10/13/2017 at 4:20 AM, lostsikh said:

Please help me anyone reading this as i am really ashmed to talk or even metion this to anyone !!!! 

The root cause is: Previous Karmas

Solution:

1. Pray to God to give you strength to get rid of this thing. Don't request him to stop it, because it is you who needs to work on it. God can work with you but NOT for you.
2. Whenever you get the lust feeling, try NOT to think about it; just start thinking something else. e.g You're standing on the road watching the traffic, you see lot of cars going but you don't start thinking about each car and/or the person sitting inside. Same way, you your mind (road) will always have lot of cars (thoughts), the secret is NOT to entertain the thought and do NOT attach to your thought. Just watch and let it go; just like the same way we just watch the cars and don't get attached to what we saw.

I don't remember the source, but I've read/heard somewhere that Bhai Mani Singh Ji actually separated/broken-into-words the Guru sahib i.e originally it was Larivaar saroop (continuous words without any break), and he wrote a saroop with separate words for easier understanding.

Now, I don't know if this story is right or wrong; but this is what I've heard.

Traditionally Desi Ghee is used on the head when one is engaged in serious meditation.

9 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

Not sure I would be confident to try the vacuum method on my own, but as an improvise maybe I can use the suction of a vacuum cleaner placed on the navel.

It seems like you've a raw idea of the next generation equipment. But remember to get the Patent, otherwise your free and helpful innovation might be tagged as pseudoscience. Traditional healers might not have the vacuum cleaners, otherwise why would they use many different kinds of cupping techniques (Wet, Dry, Myofascial, Heating, Myofascial).

Anyways, humor aside, creating vacuum inside a cup is not equivalent to the suction. The technical name is: Myofascial cupping where mechanical suction equipment is to create the required vacuum and once vacuum is created, then the mechanical force is required. I don't think vacuum cleaner could maintain the vacuum unless constant suction is created which might have the different effect.

In India, the technique (creating vacuum with the help of horn, cotton ball ) is very well known and century old; which is known as "Singe Lagvane" (in village terminology) a.k.a Horn Therapy. The Nabhi Pump is the modern innovation but not as effective as the Horn therapy but at the same time it is very easy to implement.

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 5:27 AM, Sat1176 said:

Anyone know any self help techniques to centralise the Dharan?

Dharan is also known by Solar Plexus. I personally found that the best option is to use the Vacuum Method via "Nabhi Pump". But there are couple of other techniques which might be useful in your case:

Look for "How to fix Solar Plexus" section in this page: http://satgur.net/HealthIssue/Detail/22

Yes, you're blessed but at the same time you've to play your part in this ongoing movie/game/life. Being blessed is different than taking the advantage of being blessed.

I'm not suggesting to put extra focus on worldly things; just put the focus on Simran and take the life as it comes; do whatever you've been assigned to....be it job, or whatever. In other words, let the Waheguru be your driver. I'm saying this because at one point in time, I was feeling the same. The more I feel/desire/wish/want to be away from the worldly duties, the more I feel depressed and lost peace of mind; But as soon as I left the desire to be attain something or run away from something, magically the peace of mind returned.

In other words, just keep enjoying Simran, and learn to see ALL tasks as given by your Commander/Friend/Guru, then you will shine. Just leave the desire to be desire-less.

e.g when you enjoy your Simran during Amrit vele, did you breathing disturb you? Obviously not, in-fact it helps. It is because breathing has become part of us and has never stopped us from doing anything. Same way, change the point-of-view and see every task as the God given and just move with the flow. Enjoy the Present, CONCENTRATE ON THE PRESENT. If you follow HIM, then worldly things will follow you, don't worry; just play your character joyfully and not by constantly complaining.

I know, I know it is very easy to write but very hard to practice. But that's the play!

I love this song from late 1970s:

Aanewala Pal Janewala Hai--------------------------(The moment that is to arrive, is about to pass by,)
Ho Sake Toh Isame Jindagee Bita Do-------------(If you can, in it, live your life…)
Pal Jo Yeh Janewala Hai Ho Ho---------------------(This moment, that is about to pass by.)

Ek Bar Yu Milee Masum See Kalee-----------------(Once (I) met this innocent blossom)
Khilte Hue Kahaan Khushbash Mein Chali.-------(Blooming, (she) said, I am leaving happy.)
Dekha To Yahin Hai, Dhundha To Nahin Hai,----(When I looked, it was right there , When I searched, it is not there,)
Pal Jo Yeh Jaanewala Hai-----------------------------(This moment, that is about to pass by.)

Ek Baar Waqt Se Lamha Gira Kahin----------------(Once, a moment fell from (the grasp of) time somewhere)
Wahaan Dastan Mili, Lamha Kahin Nahin---------(There I found this legend, The moment was nowhere,)
Thoda Sa Hasaake, Thoda Sa Rulaake------------(Making you laugh a little, Making you cry a little)
Pal Ye Bhi Jaanewala Hai------------------------------(This moment is also about to pass by)