das

Please let me ask you (paapiman), how high you've reached in the process of salvation? You're a Sikh.

On what basis, you're claiming that Sikhism is the fastest lane to salvation?

What a disgrace Crystal. Where did Guru Ji instructed to be bad mouth for girls. Have some shame, you were talking to a female member (Sukrit Kaur) and using such a bad language. Very sad. If you want to debate, first learn to be Human. Isn't Nimrata the first requirement to be on the path of Sikhism??

One should be level minded to know when, where and how to do Jhatka..........Fools are bound to give Jhatka/sudden-stock to their own necks.......so, beware, otherwise Karmas will give a proper Jhatka.

I am NOT sure why Admins have not edited/deleted this crystal's degrading posts.

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there are numerous things mentioned: ranging from micro (cell stuff) to macro (universe level). All of these references are made to derive a point or to help in our understanding of some Spiritual concept. e.g type of bhoots, bodies, chakra, planets, astrology, avatars, medical knowledge etc .etc.

But that doesn't mean that you've to know about each and everything. You're missing the whole point here: In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, all these things are there to derive a point about the Permanent Truth (The God). In other words, God, Soul, Mind are the most referenced concepts in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so first try to find the following answers and then move on to some other:

• What is Permanent?
• Difference between Soul and Mind?
• Working of Mind: Karma, Senses etc.?
• How to work towards God - Meditation etc.

The above mentioned concepts are the mostly talked about concepts in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So, why not first grasp them firmly and not just the face value? It's understandable that out of curiosity, one wants to know about everything mentioned in Guru Ji; but if misses the main point around which everything is defined then it is NOT worthwhile.

But even if you want to know about certain things, then the following are various options in descending order (Best at top):

1. BEST: Search within; use Meditation to get answers; or offer genuine prayer to get answers.
2. NEXT BEST: Offer prayer to Guru Ji to lead you to proper sources: books etc.
3. Search in books, lectures, kathas, internet (not so best to find the reliable knowledge) to find the answers. i.e work-hard.
4. If you cannot find the information or have some question, then ask someone. Still it is best to ask the Guru.

The worst option is: Not doing any hard work to acquire or understand the subject and just asking online. Knowledge cannot be understood by merely reading. Secondly, if deep topics are offered, one cannot appreciate/understand the depth because one is not aware of the depth of topic at hand. e.g One cannot be expected to estimate the depth of well in the darkness; the depth can only be measured by actually descending into the well. 

It's hard to explain, bottom line is: Work-hard in the right direction and start by praying to Guru Ji. None can attain anything without hard work.

I've listened to this discourse in the past, but it's so refreshing to hear it again. Anyone who is interested in real Meditation, tips, how, where, or anything related to Meditation; please listen to this discourse. It's very good. Its long, but its better to argue over unimportant topics:

I don't know why but it sounds like you're just on the run to prove that every religion is false or incomplete. I might be wrong but that's the impression I got from your messages.

But anyways, as I've explained in my first post, you're bound to find different interpretations of the same concept depending upon to which group the responder belongs to. If your intention is to study new language, then would you start from lesson-1 OR last-lesson? I think one would start from Lesson-1; therefore I again suggest you to study Guru Granth Sahib Ji where you won't find any reference to these contradictions. I am NOT suggesting that if you read Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you will understand why women can't be Panj payaras. I'm merely suggesting to understand some Spiritual truths for the betterment of your life.

Moreover, can I ask, what's the issue with the religion you're born in? Your religion might be affected with the same contradictions which won't be present if you seriously study it. In other words, it would be easier for you to understand your own birth religion instead of finding it somewhere else. The truth could be found where it is: Within. Please let us know your religion and we might be able to provide some good translations of that religion which might help you.

e.g If a seed is planted in one pot and then it is pulled from that soil and cleaned of its soil and eventually planted it in another pot; then the survivability of that plant is decreased to many folds. In other words, it is best possible environment for the plant if it kept in its root soil.

But if your intention is something else, then please "lage-raho"......i.e keep throwing water at sky.

I said that I won't post any posts for this particular thread. But I'm breaking that not for the sake of debating but just as information:

If paapiman you're really after the real information, then you can (or anyone can) find the truth from first hand information, then he/she could contact "Ishwar Puri" ( http://ishwarpuri.org/contact/ ); Ishwar Puri is last known physical person known to be alive whose Spiritual Guru was Sant Sawan Singh. 

Very narrow and handicap (dependent on someone else) thinking.

Anyways, I would like if some other member of sangat could hear the 1 minute clip and verify what name he mentioned. 

Moreover,  as I have already said what I had, so this is my last post on this particular topic.

First learn the difference between Fact vs Belief (based upon someone else non-experience).

May be I'm hard of hearing, but it sounds like in the video he is talking about "Babu Kaul Singh".......but in any case, here are some real facts:

Sawan Singh Grewal's life duration is: 1858–1948

and Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale's life duration is: 1947 – 1984

Does it point you something? Do you really think he is talking about someone whom he never met? Either the video is not talking about "Sawan Singh" or Jarnail Singh is ill-informed by some of his followers. I guess the life duration of the two persons mentions a great thing. Rest is upto you; after-all its your free-will, do whatever you want.

First of all, I'm NOT a follower of Radhaswami.

It's very irresponsible paapiman. Did you listen to the video clip you've posted?

"Sawan Grewal" name is nowhere mentioned in the clip; so how you got this name? It's really very sad and shameful on your part; one should NOT post any anything online without verifying the facts.

"Sawan Singh Grewal (1858–1948)" was one of the first person who settled in Beas. He was opposed to the formation of separate Mat named as Radhasoami; The Radhasoami name originated from Agra circle.

I'm NOT saying that someone somewhere under somebrand cannot do as claimed in the video but that does NOT mean that you can pull everyone under the same umbrella. There are some cracks who are doing that.

At this present times, there are many many cases where the person belonged to previous Rara-Sahib samparda, Nanaksar samparda but they are indulged in Ego-ist behaviours; some are even continuing the samparda for the money things. Does it mean that you can drag the real Saints under the same tag? It always happen that the real sampardas/groups preach something but later on those teachings are packed in box and sold. So, then who is the culprit? Think about it.

There is NO problem in pointing out the real issues, but these days youth with this internet are so careless that they do not care about the real truth. They just post whatever based upon their very limited point of view and without really looking for the truth.

Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib wale used to say that the Nindea is defined as: Spreading the news for which you did not know if it is true or not (i.e which you have not heard/seen with your own ears/eyes).

see next post

....do as you believe.

That is the issue. We (followers of any particular faith) claim that our faith is the best and most potent and the rest of faiths/groups are somewhat less. I guess everything should co-exist keeping in mind that everyone has different Spiritual needs as they are on different stages. In other words, one should NOT indulge in Mine-vs-Other faith or More-Potent-vs-Not-Potent..............or say there are many persons, Saints, Scriptures that are doing their jobs (to brings the departed Souls back) to Source and they are doing their duty as per the needs.

So, just be sure to follow your faith and respect other faith thinking that your faith's leader/Guru may come in un-recognizable another form (even in the group that you're against) depending upon the needs.

and please include me in that list. It's point of view from broader sense of what we're doing here in this world.

Yes, it seems like from the posts (that you've posted) and from introspection of mine side that both of us were/are doing worthless. We're just doing whatever we've been scripted to do, may be sometimes doing some small good but majorly we're wasting our lives. In other words, we have been doing what the circumstances/environment/thinking are forcing us to do. So, explain to me: Where is the "I" who is dong good?

My genuine request to you is come out of the false illusion that you're doing something special (and as always me included).

Think about it:

• Aren't you paid for your Army services? So, how you're helping? Identify the real enjoyer here.
• Aren't you paid for your services to Gurudwara Committee with a BIG payout? And before you reply with "I don't have any penny from Gurudwara funds", let me clear that I'm talking of Ego as reward.
• I'm also paid VERY heavily when I post some thing OR help someone. In the case of "posts" I DO look for "likes" to feel good, so I'm feeding my Ego. And in case of helping someone medically, again I DO look for appreciation. Again feeding my Ego. So, in order words, I'm NOT doing good to help someone. I'm just doing that because "I" like it, "I" feel happy/satisfied; and again when I feel satisfied, only when my EGO is boosted (however hidden it may be).

The same goes for "THE YOU", my friend. e.g If a parrot closes his eyes on seeing the cat thinking that as he cannot see cat, so cat cannot see him. Is it worth? NO, because as cat can see the parrot and therefore can eat him. It does not matter if parrot's eyes are closed or not. Same way, it does NOT matter if we close our eyes towards our internal hidden issues or false illusions; at-last we're bound to loose if we don't do anything to get rid of the real core issues.

Isn't your EGO also working through your messages? Think about it?

I'm NOT taking sides with you or chatanga but you read your messages. And please stop these arguments on this topic and kindly use your debating powers somewhere else (open a new topic or thread).

My personal thinking is that you're trapped in your own world and don't want to come out of it. Just like a frog living in a well and refused to the presence of external world. (NO pun intended). The world is NOT about Man-vs-Woman and I know that you'll respond that you believe in equality and everyone else is not; but in reality you're just on the other-side (of the same coin). You claim to see beyond physical aspects (Man vs Woman) yet your messages give entirely different indication (i.e you're just the other side).

Please channel your power to some good work where someone can be benefitted. I don't think being in Army, Emergency team volunteering, Debating, Practicing Sikh, part of Gurdwara committee, some limited experiences, OBE etc. has anything to do with helping people and Spiritually uplifting yourself along with other people. It sounds like these things are just proving an secret ego booster for you where you're not even aware of it. Welcome to this world of illusions!!

Do something which would you help you AND the other person Spiritually and accept that there is NO guarantee that you're more pious/spiritual than the other person who you're debating with. You may or may not be more spiritual than the other, but debating while thinking that you're right and only you do see the whole truth is NOT the right way on this Spiritual path.

Does it mean that the Gurus (not just referring to Sikh Gurus, but in general the concept of Guru) practice partiality towards Mine creed vs Other creed?

In other words, does it mean ALL religions (including Sikhism) DO have concepts: "Come to us and we'll save you; If you go with other then it's up to other Guru's potential and then we don't take care of you".........something like My-Crowd vs Other-Crowd?

Please allow me to ask everyone on this topic this question:

Have any of you has any direct experience of Negative entities? Don't offer me any theory, if you happen to have any practical experience then please post.

• The powerful ghosts (negative entities) are not easy to get rid of.
• Some times, it is important to get the help of higher Spiritual beings (Brahmgyanis/Sants) because they really know the root cause (karma relationship with associated person) and at the same time know the formula to get rid of that. Don't expect Love is going to help; even Path done without the formula (technique) will help only to some extent. Sometimes doing Path alone would lead you to higher Spiritual being who could really sort out the problem. So, Path and Prayers are must.
• Negative entities are attracted (via subtle smell) to persons who consume meat, liquor, and/or visit prostitutes, bad intentions etc........The reason is negative entities are more attracted to lower vibrations (smell being the lowest related to Earth component).
• Meeting a lost soul in immediate Astral world is NOT equivalent to real Ghosts with real powers.
• Menstruation blood has real Life force along with Signature which could be used for Negative reason. In ancient times (even these days) menstruation blood is used in rituals for some specific purposes (not so for positive). And it is nothing to do with pure/impure; it's about the life force. Same goes for Hairs, Salvia, and nails etc......if one can acquire any of these for another person, then it's very easy to do Black Tantar........even Metaphysics does this via: Radionics, Bio-Photon analyzer and count less other techniques. 

At last, Evil eye is NOT equivalent to Ghost, those are different things. Secondly, in our immediate environment, there are lot of Negative as well as Positive entities but Spritual Science Foundation has exaggerated this so much that you'll start thinking about them everyday, which will lead you to further attract negative forces because you're attracting them by thinking about them.

Best option is continue the Meditation path; there are lot of things in this world and it is NOT necessary for us to know everything about them. 

All of the above mentioned keywords are the names of the powers of Maya/Illusion. These powers are the sole reason for our sufferings.

Powers of Maya/Illusion

• Mal/Filth:
  • It's job is to show something different.
  • Due to previous and this birth's bad deeds Mind gets attracted to bad deeds and questions the existence of GOD. It creates Rag-Dvesh (attachment, and hatred) towards certain things. In order words, when water is mixed with filth, we cannot see our face in water. i.e we cannot clearly see the reality. It is a power which introduces illusion. e.g this is world.
• Vikshape/Poison:
  • It's responsibility is to create a change in the thing that Mal showed so that mind feels happiness or sadness.
  • It is a power due to which different types of thoughts rise in Mind and gives sorrow. e.g Janam, maran, dukh, sukh etc. In other words, thoughts creates ripples in water and therefore, we cannot see ourselves in water. Because of these thoughts Mind never stay one-pointed.
• Avaran/Veil:
  • It's responsibility is to hide the original thing.
  • It is power which hides the original thing which is GOD. It does not allow us to see the reality.e.g- just like when someone puts a bucket upside down on lit candle, room which had light before is dark now because of bucket which is put upside down. In other words, when mirror is covered with curtain, then we cannot see ourselves.

So, bottom line is: Avaran has hidden the truth (Atma/Soul) and Mal has showed this world and eventually Vikshape confirms this world is truth and creates happiness and sadness.

How to Get Rid of Mal/Vikshape/Avaran

Sants/Mahapurashs/Gurus have also shown us the way to get rid of these 3 powers: These are Karma, Upsana, and Gyan.

• Karma (Purity of Mind):
  • The first power of Maya i.e Mal/Filth could be removed by Karma/Actions.
  • Purity of mind is achieved by staying away from filthy deeds like alcohol, meat, someone else's woman or man, gambling, stealing, lying, betraying, bribery, etc. and by investing in good, honest actions. Be charitable, take bath at ambrosial hours to keep body and mind clean and pure, do positive selfless service (sewa), practice restraint in sex.
• Upsana/Worship (Concentration of Mind):
  • The second power of Maya i.e Vikshape/Poison could be removed by Upsana.
  • When mind is purified, then the desire for concentration arises in mind. One-pointedness of Mind is achieved through worship with full concentration so that mind does not create ripples (thoughts) to disturb us. The concentration is achieved by devotion and worship. It could also be achieved through Meditation/Simran. One should always concentrate on his/her Guru and do meditation of Gur-Mantar.
• Gyan (Knowledge):
  • The last power of Maya i.e Avaran/Veil could be removed by Gyan (NOT the normal knowledge obtained from reading Scriptures, books etc.). It is the Brahmgyan given by the Guru only.
  • When the search of Self is done with purity and concentration of mind, one realises that the same God that once appeared as separate is one's own; in fact the entire universe appears to be one. The scene and the witness both appear to be one. Duality completely disappears and only One prevails.
  • It is Not possible to gain Gyan/Knowledge without Guru. But we do Not have to search for Guru because as per God's Law, Guru will appear itself once we have removed the first two powers of Maya i.e once our mind is pure and steady (one-pointed).

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If you need more information on these topics, you might find the following topics related to Mal/Vikshape/Avaran helpful and in more detailed with examples:

Why we cannot see God: http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/19

Maya/Illusions and its Powers: http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/20

Crux of All Religions:  http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/35

I think Void is the correct term if we are referring to Shunya (Sanskrit word). And yes, it is the knowledge of knowledge and pure awareness of awareness.......but NOT the knowledge itself.

Bottom line is neither me nor you have attained that state, so we're just putting what we learnt (understood at our current stage) from various sources.

and also the first article stated this thread is NOT talking about real "Void" because no Mantra could reach that region; that area "Shunya" is devoid of sound also.....that's the reason it is called Shunya/Void. Only the Soul who has gone beyond that area could help there, no matter what. I remember reading something along these lines in one of the books of Sant Waryam Singh Ji.

No, "Void" is NOT pure emptiness/awareness of awareness. And the real thing is beyond this Void. In-fact, this so-called Void is the last attempt of the Mind to deceive the progressing Soul. Many Saints have spoken about this area, which is very dangerous because nothing is going to help there, except the Guru. If one stuck in that region, then there won't be any further births but still stuck in the region.

This is the area where the real Mind resides, this area is beyond the 3 qualities.......in other words, this is the area where Kaal resides (hidden away from all his creation - Kaal's creation); this area was given to Kaal by the God.

Moreover, please do NOT start debating that this is Radhaswami thinking. I mentioned that because these things are discussed by many Saints/Brahmgyani but not much published information, is available; whereas the starters (not that they wanted to start) of Radhaswami path have published and discussed these concepts widely; so it's easier to locate the information. In-fact, its only the Radhaswamis that have explained the Anurag Sagar (by Bhagat Kabir) in great detail. Today's Radhaswamis are entirely different (just like the mainstream Sikhs).

At last if I'm not wrong, then Sant Waryam Singh Jis books would have this information available.