Kharag Singh

Scientists have gone mad, whats inside a nuclei? a quark? whats inside a quark? and it goes on and on!

Why dont we all agree that God is an entity which has no form or physical attribute, just as energy has no form or physical attribute but its presence and effects can be seen clearly. E.g. Gravity can’t be seen but its presence and effect on objects can be sensed.

In accordance to Newton’s first law “energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be transferred†cant God be a powerful entity in the form of energy (drawing in the concept of shakti), which was never created and can never be destroyed. Which is a fundamental of Sikhi which state that God is timeless was never born and was there before the beginning.

I personally believe that god is an energy, we may have discovered the four fundamental energies but there are more which are yet to be found, and God is such an energy it is intelligent and I believe will never be found. As per Guru Nanak Dev Ji he says that there is a spark of God within everyone, therefore God fits into the equation where God or energy can be transferred. And I believe that our aatma is a similar energy where it never dies but transfers into many different bodies (hence the theory of reincarnation fits in).

If we look into our body what is the catalyst which drives our body to carry out its function such as respiration? Looking further what is the force that makes the bonds in glucose break in the presence of oxygen. If you say that force is electrostatic attraction projected by the more electronegative oxygen, then what is it that causes the electrons around oxygen to spin and be attracted towards the nucleus, and if you say that it’s the positive charge exerted by the protons in the nucleus of that oxygen, then what is the force holding the protons together because same charged particles repel. That I believe is not strong nuclear force but is that very spark of God which catalyses all reactions in the body and the world to occur.

To sum it up God the energy, God the creator (pair production), God the sustainer (strong nuclear force) and God the destroyer (particle+anti-particle annihilation)

there my two cents!

i may be wrong as my beliefs are influenced if nobody noticed my quantum physics

is homosexuality a sin as grave as murder i think not! is it as grave as cheating (ie beymaani) i think not!

Only God can do justice of the terrible punishments against homosexuals!

Akaaal!

You didn't differentiate in your original question.

The true schooling/knowledge comes from the Jagdi Jyot, which is why Guru Angad Ji, Guru Amardaas Ji and Guru Ramdaas Ji were able to contribute so equally and divinely to Sri Aad Granth Sahib. The only worthwhile thing to note is that the 2nd to 4th Guru sahiban were persons of divine character, which is why they were chosen to recieve Guru Nanak dev Ji's jyot.

Your study is completely pointless nit-picking, and I am getting influenced to do the same, which is wrong on my part.

You try to make sense of and reconcile all factions of your beliefs, and I am sure you believe you have or will.

God is creative and beyond our understanding, and has revealed himself to us in a myriad of forms and paths, in order to to test out commitment, faith and understanding of his higher and inner message.

But all you are interested in is categorisation, detailing a version of history and religion that fits your lifestyle, establishing hierarchies, promoting the Shia supremecy, causing some controversy and possibly making an academic name for yourself, none of which I believe will win you Allahs grace or give you peace.

You could use your skills in a much more productive and actually help people if you wanted to. But then you say why would you want to help the community that has sidelined you, then what exactly are you trying to achieve through these discussions.... apart from adjusting and strengthening your arguements through identifying an idea of what counter-arguments the populace will have once your articles/books are published.

AMEEN TO THAT!

Javanmard you are going round in circles mate, have you never heard of the concept of leela? Our gurus were bhramgyanis, therefore they had divine knowledge and recieved schooling as per Akaals hukkam to give them a more human nature, but for Akaal purukh their greatness in actions was still too great to be considered as normal hence Maharaj Noor e Allah Guru Gobind Singh Ji condemns all those to hell who have the dursahas os calling him God.

Javanmard i am a strong believer in giving credit in places where it is deserved, even though your theories may seem distorted to us you research is commendable which will indeed make you a fine scholar, however sidhe raste peh ja, go to Gurubhoomi and do pravachans with some budde babe who have more gyan than you.

Because as maharaj says that after he has gone the kunji to gurbani lies in the hands of a sant, you sit in your room reading the texts according to your own interpretations, jah kisse horr di vi rah sun leh, go to a sant mahapurush who has gyaan of bani and rid yourself of false conceptions, and when you come back tell us moorakhs what you have learnt so that we may too engrose our selves in divine knowledge!

Yasashvi Bahava!

the other gurus are the same jyot as guru nanak how many times have people said this to you!!!!!!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaargh you know how to piss people off!

so what if the guru's went to school thay doesnt make them in anyway inferior. Raam Krishna both avtaars of mahavishnu went to school the normal manav way does that make them inferior NO!

But i dont know whether it is your thought or its the poor way you express yourself the vibe i get from you if that there is nothing greater than muhammad rasool! If that were true then the avtars of our gurus was pointless!

ye and nor could the gunga (mute) shudra read the the geeta yet 8ve patshah with one touch envoked the holy spirit for the gunga to recite bhagwad!

well we all know how well ruh al qudus schooled muhammad rasool, he was illiterate!

javanmard you have crossed the line now, by saying that that the gurus did not have sight of the holy spirit you have ommited blasphemy. My he lord forgive because the panth cannot!

akaaaaaaaaaaaal!

sat sri akaaaaaal!

ghrist jeevan doesnt nesecerely mean to have kids, its about living with your soul mate in society, and live in society unlike sanyasis etc

mystical experience i think is experiencing the spirit of God, as many muslims believe that union with god is only after death and judgement suffi muslims believe that it is possible to experience Gods presence while still alive where the experience will be ineffable, transient, passive and noetic.

marriage is the union of two souls, now i dont think that a soul is bound by a gender but it is an energy which cannot be created or destroyed as by newtons law which therefore continues to transfer through many vessels through the cycle of reincarnation.

how bad is that, this is dictatorship!

Punjab has its first Sikh lesbian marriage

Punjab Newsline Network

Tuesday, 19 June 2007

AMRITSAR: Two Sikh girls of a border town of Punjab have repeated the history of two lesbian girls Raju and Mala of Amritsar, infamous for soleminising Punjab's first lesbian marriage.

Baljit Kaur and Rajwinder Kaur of Batala town of Gurdaspur distirct have however became first Sikh girls of Punjab to eprform the lesbian marraige.

They on Tuesday came to Golden Temple here to seek blessings. They had no regrets and no worry of the social stigma on they will carry for rest of their life. " we do not care. We love each other and will die for each other'', they told media.

The Raju-Mala marriage had broken after few months when Mala fell in love with a boy few months after their marriage.

Baljit and Rajwinder are running for shelter since families of both of them are aafter their blood.They belonged to Jat Sikh families where honour killings are common. Interestingly, the female sex ratio in Punjab is falling over the years due to foeticide and lesbian marriage has stirred anew controversy. Akal Takht Jathedar Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti has condemned lesbian marriages in Sikh religion.

Baljit appeard before meida dressed as boy with black goggles and Rajwinder, wearing salwar-kameez and `churrah' (wedding bangles) rubbed shoulders with her sould mate.

They were frank to tell that both of them do not like boys. ``Boys are cheaters and we girls trust each other''. They said that they had see anought of male dominated world and now want to live their own life.

Baljit, 21, and Rajwinder, 20, are educated till 10+2 had eloped from home two week ago. ``We stayed at a friend's house at Morinda and then went to Katra in Jammu and Kashmir and Vaishno Devi where, after paying obeisance, we married with help of an Army officer Kuldeep Raj'', Baljit explained.

``We have demanded security as our family members have threatened to kill us'', said Baljit. She said that it was second time that she had fallen in love with a girl. The first love remained unsuccessful, she added. She said that they would soon approach court for security.

Baljit said Rajwinder met at job placement office where later had come to search for the job. ``We are distant relatives also. When I saw her first I felt like touching her'', said Baljit.

When reminded of Akal Takht `Hukamnama' (edict) denouncing the single sex marriages, they said they do not care and just want the religious leaders and society to let them live together and live their life. ``We have visited Golden Temple and prayed to God for our well-being and successful marriage. They would like to adopt a child, if law permitted, they added.

i personally dont have a problem as manas ki jaat ek pehchaan and right of free will as the girls havent cheated anyone nor have they commited a crime.

what are the scholars of this forum's view?

yaar we are punjabis if youve got the album rapidshare it! ghar di gall samajh le

this was beautiful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBUako21lJY&NR=1

ok so muhammad is the lords rasool and ali is his wali and esa is roohallah, where do we go from here? What status do our gurus have? Musalman say that there is no higher rank than that of gods rasool, where do your Guru's fit in this grand scale, thats all i want to know, because this argument of sikhism and shiaism and ismailism (whatever that is) etc etc. So as they say in punjabi soh hath rassa sire te gandh, is debate da satta ki hai?

Fateh! May the peace and blessings of the Lord be upon all!

I was talking to this South Indian "smarta" Purohit/Pandit and we were discussing the many different ways of worshiping. I argued that there is no purer or higher form of worship than that of Naam Simran, and he argued that the method of Havan/Yagya is greater and bears more fruit.

His main argument was that Hari Simran is the easiest from of worship in the sense that one can worship day and night hence why "aaht pehar har dhiyaya raam" one can worship the lord day and night just by repeating the Lords name. However in terms of effectiveness Havan/Yagya is far more superior as it is an embodiment of both esoteric and exoteric factors to worship. He backed up the effectiveness of the ritual by "scientific" means where he said that when preforming the Yagya the heat from the fire open one chakras and invokes Mata Kundalini hence the exoteric, the esoteric he explains is the chanting of the mantras whereby once the chakras are opened one can channel ones energy and meditation become easier. He also says that its more effective because Agni Dev is the postman of the daivi world and because heat rises as it rises ones prayer and efforts are taken up to the divine more effectively and quickly.

My argument was that when one is physically preforming the yagya one is alert and aware to ones surrounding and it is much easier for the mind to "Bhatak". However when meditating via Naam Simran one channels and relaxes the hyperactivity of the mind a stronger and more effective link between the divine and the devotee is created through the heart by the means of "bhagti".

So what are your views? What do you think about the Purohits argument ?

Fateh!

sharia as javanmard has so openly stated before is a lower school of religion, here after Pehla Patshah sharia is an ineffective method to live ones life

May God's permanent curse be upon namjap you filthy heretical bastard!!! Insulting the Holy Virgin!!! How dare you? What is it with you people does insulting God's prophets make you feel nyara and special?

You so-called scholarly article comes from a website in which ALL of its authors including François Gautier are Hindutva thinkers. You Namjap and the people of your kind are filled with filth, all you can do is blaspheme. May you and your kid rot in hell you bastard!!!

before getting personal you should read brother drawrofs excellent post. some times if not most you put forward an arrogance that your view is gospel truth and any other is heretical

bible is full of contradictions, an accepted FACT. so the credability of the bible is near zilch so was jesus born from a virgin, possible yes for those who also believe in the janam sakhia, NO for those who base their judgment on the Bibles credibility

my two cents: shaitan is within us in the form of pride subdue and youve won.

"MAN JITHE JAGJEET!"

the greatest misconception about the geeta that most sikhs have is when shri krishna says that "i am god" one fails to realise that its not shri krishna speaking to arjun but akaal purukh, showing that anyone can have religious experience with the divine. Just as when Pehle Patshah had countless such experiences with the divine during his life in the form of amrit bani decending from the heavens. There fore Shri Krishna wasnt saying that he is God but it was God in its glory discoursing with Arjun!

remember in 1699 khande di paul wasnt for anyone and everyone. Baba Deep Singh Jo had to do (i think) 18 years of seva before recieving khande di paul. Amritdharis are supposed to be those who are members of akaal fauj. If youve taken amrit yet dont adopt akaali fauj rules then you might aswell rename yourselves as nirmala, sevapanthi or udhasi.

Amritsar: As far as nearly everyone knew, Gurnam Singh Bandala was gunned down in a shootout with police 13 years ago during the waning days of an uprising by Sikh separatists.

That is, until Bandala turned up alive, living as a preacher outside this northern Indian city.

"It's the perfect cover, being dead," says Bandala, the classic image of a towering Sikh with his white robe, deep blue turban and long gray beard.

Authorities now believe an innocent farmer was deliberately killed by police so that they could present his body as Bandala's and collect a bounty equal to $60,000 (Dh220,200).

"I thought I was so lucky," Bandala said in an interview. But "there was no luck. There was murder." Bandala's re-emergence is one of nearly a dozen similar cases that have surfaced recently in India. The faked police shootouts have shaken an already troubled justice system in a country that touts itself as a rights-respecting democracy where the rule of law prevails.

Poor system

Former police officials and human rights activists say the fake encounters are the brutal result of a system dominated by poorly educated, badly trained and corruptible police, dirty politicians and stagnated courts where justice, if it ever comes, can be delayed for years.

"Because cases take years to be settled, because witnesses don't show up, because bribes are paid, criminals get away. So the police resort to shortcuts," says Sankar Sen, a former policeman who's now a fellow at the Institute for Social Sciences in New Delhi.

The exact number of fake encounters is impossible to determine. Police officials acknowledge only a handful over the past two decades and say they are isolated cases.

But the former and current officers say the problem is more widespread, and rights activists estimated the number must be in the hundreds, if not thousands.

They point to the tens of thousands of people who have disappeared, many after being detained by police during one of the myriad insurgencies here in the last three decades.

An estimated 3,000 people were lost without explanation during the Sikh uprising in Punjab in the 1980s and early 1990s. About 10,000 are missing in Kashmir, where an Islamist rebellion festers today.

Three cases

In Punjab, the fight for a separate Sikh state left about 25,000 people dead, including 1,700 police. Bandala is one of three former separatist militants who were said to have been killed in shootouts but who recently turned up alive.

"Somebody was killed in their place," says Ranjan Lakhanpal, a human rights lawyer. "We believe there are many more." In Kashmir, police this year began investigating five cases, all involving security forces who may have killed innocents and claimed they were rebels to earn rewards.

And in Gujarat, a western state riven by tensions between Hindus and Muslims, three policemen and three senior officials have been arrested for their alleged role in the 2005 slaying of a Muslim couple.

However, the Kashmir and Gujarat probes are exceptions and most allegations never are fully checked, says Ajai Sahni, former chief of India's Intelligence Bureau, part of the country's law-enforcement apparatus. "They're the result of dogged investigations by good policemen. That rarely happens." One reason few cases are investigated is that most Indians aren't interested. Wealthier Indians in particular have long accepted extrajudicial killings disguised as shootouts as the most expedient way to get rid of criminals.

There's even a reverential term for officers with the highest tallies: "encounter specialists." Police kill not only career criminals, but also stage shootouts to get promotions or rewards. That was the case with Bandala.

Bandala already was in hiding for a decade when he read, in July 1994, about his own death in a newspaper. He worried at first, "then I realised the police wouldn't be chasing me anymore," he said.

At the same time, a woman who lived a few villages away started looking for her husband, Sukhpal Singh. According to court documents filed by Singh's family, police came to their home in August and picked up the farmer, then 26, for questioning.

"He disappeared," says his widow, Dalbir Kaur. "We've never seen him again."

A senior Punjab police officer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the matter remains sensitive, said authorities believe Singh was killed in Bandala's place. His body was presented as that of Bandala's and then cremated.

interesting, however there are two versions of dakhinamurty one which you stated and is probably undoubtedly most accurate, but the second is that aryan hindus believed that the southern face of mount kailash is dakshinamurty and they believe that those who have no guru, their guru is dakshinamurty shiva