wahegurubol

Talk about Iran, Read the below story.

Will Justice Be Served?

S.Kultaran Singh, a Gursikh born in Iran and holder of Indian Passport No: A9122718 issued at Tehran on 22nd January 2003, was brutally killed on 7 August 2003. This killing has shaken the confidence of the small Sikh and Indian community resident in Iran since three generations and has created a sense of insecurity. The family of the deceased and Mrs.Damanpal Kaur Anand has sent several petitions to various authorities in India and also to the Embassy of India in Tehran (Iran).

The killer, who made a public confession and the entire Iranian media covered the story, will be tried in Tehran Criminal Court on 15 December 2004. But, unfortunately, the lawyers believe that since the deceased is a Gursikh (a non-Muslim) in an Islamic Republic, and the perpetrator of the crime is a Muslim it is questionable whether justice will be served, and at the most the family could claim and be awarded Diya Compensation up to Rupees ten lakh (around US$23,000). The killer should be given exemplary punishment.

Sikhs in Iran are a small business community of hundred plus families and if justice is denied it will put this small religious minority to further risk. The Sikh residents of Iran must be accorded reciprocal benefits enjoyed by Iranian citizens

Furthermore, Islam has also laid down universal fundamental rights for humanity which are to be observed and respected in all circumstances. Therefore Late S. Kultaran Singh by being born in Iran became a citizen of an Islamic state where he lived till his death and thus he should enjoy equal rights along with those who acquire Iranian citizenship by birth. The life, property, and honor of Sardar Kultaran Singh are to be respected and protected in exactly the same way as that of a Muslim citizen. Nor should there be difference between a Muslim and a non-Muslim citizen with respect to civil or criminal law as prescribed in Islam and stated on the following link: http://www.jamaat.org/islam/HumanRightsPolitical.html

The entire Sikh Diaspora appeals to the highest authorities of India and Iran to intervene in this case and restore the confidence, future, and security of the Sikh community in Iran by seeking justice for the murder of Sardar Kultaran Singh.

Request from Mrs. Damanpal Kaur Anand

Sardar Kultaran Singh, my husband and an innocent Gursikh, was brutally stabbed to death on 7th August 2003 in Tehran (Iran) by Majid Jahanshahi (a local Muslim) who has confessed to his crime and is scheduled for trial in the criminal court for hearing on 15th December 2004 in Tehran (Iran).

The greatest challenge we face is that we are convinced, having been informed by our lawyer, that since the deceased is a Indian national and a Gursikh that is a non-Muslim in an Islamic Republic, and the perpetrator is a Muslim it is questionable whether justice will be served.

I have sent various petitions to the Prime Minister of India Dr. Manmohan Singh, the Ministry of External Affairs of India in New Delhi, and Sardar Krishan Chander Singh the Indian ambassador in Iran seeking their support and intervention.

Furthermore I need the help of Gursikh scholars of the Sikh Diaspora to send me a draft petition that can be submitted to the highest religious authorities of Iran for intervention which should convince them that the Sikhs believe in One God and our Holy Guru Granth Sahib quotes and recognizes one Creator who is remembered by different people in different ways. Some know the creator as Allah. Guru Granth Sahib categorically states that all people have a common origin in the one Creator: aval allah Noor upaya kudarat kay subb bnanday..

The appeal could define solidarity of our Gurus with Muslims backed by historical evidences and our faith and beliefs accordingly which does not distinguish between human beings and seeks justice. An Islamic website http://www.jamaat.org/islam/HumanRightsPolitical.html states the following:

Fundamental Rights

Although an Islamic state may be set up anywhere on earth, Islam does not seek to restrict human rights or privileges to the boundaries of such a state. Islam has laid down universal fundamental rights for humanity, which are to be observed and respected in all circumstances. For example, human blood is sacred and may not be spilled without strong justification; it is not permissible to oppress women, children, old people, the sick or the wounded; women's honor and chastity must be respected; the hungry must be fed, the naked clothed and the wounded or diseased treated medically irrespective of whether they belong to the Islamic community or are from amongst its enemies. These, and other provisions have been laid down by Islam as fundamental rights for every man by virtue of his status as a human being.

Nor, in Islam, are the rights of citizenship confined to people born in a particular state. A Muslim ipso facto becomes the citizen of an Islamic state as soon as he sets foot on its territory with the intention of living there and thus enjoys equal rights along with those who acquire its citizenship by birth. And every Muslim is to be regarded as eligible for positions of the highest responsibility in an Islamic state without distinction of race, color or class.

Islam has also laid down certain rights for non-Muslims who may be living within the boundaries of an Islamic state and these rights necessarily form part of the Islamic constitution. In Islamic terminology, such non-Muslims are called dhimmis (the covenanted), implying that the Islamic state has entered into a covenant with them and guaranteed their protection. The life, property and honor of dhimmis is to be respected and protected in exactly the same way as that of a Muslim citizen. Nor is there difference between a Muslim and a non-Muslim citizen in respect of civil or criminal law.

The Islamic state may not interfere with the personal rights of non-Muslims, who have full freedom of conscience and belief and are at liberty to perform their religious rites and ceremonies in their own way. Not only may they propagate their religion, they are even entitled to criticize Islam within the limits laid down by law and decency.

These rights are irrevocable. Non-Muslims cannot be deprived of them unless they renounce the covenant , which grants them citizenship. However much a non-Muslim state may oppress its Muslim citizens it is not permissible for an Islamic state to retaliate against its non-Muslim subjects; even if all the Muslims outside the boundaries of an Islamic state are massacred, that state may not unjustly shed the blood of a single non-Muslim citizen living within its boundaries.

Appeals for global support from Sikh leaders, Sikh institutions, Sikh scholars and Gursikhs at all levels are solicited to demonstrate solidarity of the global Sikh Diaspora to Ambassador Sardar Krishan Chander Singh, Embassy of India in Tehran (Iran). His contact information is: indemteh@dpimail.net (email), Telefax:+98-21-8755953

Looking forward to your support.

Mrs. Damanpal Kaur Anand (Wife) of Late S.Kultaran Singh

Address:- Darwazeh Daulat Ave Khaghani St. Alizadeh

Block 25. 1st floor

Tehran-Iran Phone No.: 8306265Fax: 8846894

E-mail: damananand@yahoo.com

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112004/tehran.htm

http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/arti...ons_in_Iran.jpg --->>This is what the iranian government does to its people. I know you will say such atroticities commited in India also,but the difference is that the Iranian Government Publicly delcares such execution as part of Iranian Law and Constitution and he comes up on this forum and says Iran is better than paris and london and another dude comes in and say life in london is tough. I'd guess then better move to Iran?

Iran executes children, look up on youtube.com. Iran executes a girl if she was raped ! ..a teenager girl..thats what the law of that countrie says.

I am shocked at u guys for the very little knowledge you have of that country.

http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/arti...ons_in_Iran.jpg --->>This is what the iranian government does to its people. I know you will say such atroticities commited in India also,but the difference is that the Iranian Government Publicly delcares such execution as part of Iranian Law and Constitution and he comes up on this forum and says Iran is better than paris and london and another dude comes in and say life in london is tough. I'd guess then better move to Iran?

As for Sikh-Shia connection.. veer ji..if we need any such information and knowledge weshould read about the lifes of brahmgyanis and sants jis... not listen to a scholar.

Dear Wahegurubol veer,

he is not making fun of them, i think because of culture differences it may seem like that to you. Please get familiar with western cultures, other should get familiar with eastern cultures and its sensitivities and try to "understand" each other little better before throwing accusation.

okay i apologise, if hes not making fun, its cool... !

Dear shaheediyan, I think you have misunderstood me. I was referring to a time well before the modern era and the Gurus, when the two great powers India and Persia were inextricably locked together. India has had many great dynasties, including the Mauryan Empire of Chandragupta Maurya and then Ashoka. Persia has the great Emperor Cyrus, and his cylinder. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder) Subsequently the enlightened Emperor Xerxes, and his alliance of tribes as diverse as South Indians (Dravidians) and Ethiopians, against the Spartans. And way before all that, when the Aryan people brought their language and culture intact from Persia. The influence and respect for humanity of the ancient culture of the mighty Persian people and their race, is what I admire. To me, our Gurus were trying to show a way BACK to that state of unity, brotherhood, tolerance and understanding.

Regardless of your views about the current Iranian regime (and I don't want to share my opinion on that) I find it striking the way that every Iranian person I have spoken to has been knowledgable, polite and respectful regarding the Punjab, Sikhs and India generally. The Zoroastrian religion carries remnants of traditions of cleanliness, purity and NOBLE conduct which finds exact parallels in ancient Vedic religion (Brahmanism) and which survives to the present day in the teachings of the Gurus.

I feel that Javanmard is best placed to provide relevant information to us, so that we may each come to our own understanding based on our intellectual capacities. My sincere wish is for a strong and brotherly alliance between the Persia and the India. I would like to see both these powers come back as the champions of philosophy, science and human rights that they once were.

I don't know about the bad language on this forum. It does happen from time to time, so I don't find it a big deal, but disclosing PMs publicly as wahegurubol has done is, as you have rightly pointed out in the past, a breach of etiquette that reflects badly.

Someone PMs you and calls you "m**d cho*d" and tells you to "suck dck of bush" and you are saying it is breach of etiquette.

I joined this forum for sikhi not for persia and india. ifyou like persia so much just go there and live... and perhaps in a few days you will be bogged down by people who want to change your identity.

i dont understand singho, that how can you take the side of a person who in the other thread says khalsa originated in iran and that our "Gurus" took amrit from imaam. such a person should be immediately banned !

seems kinda pointless to reply to this thread...but...

Guru Nanak was waheguru himself. But disappeared in the river for a period to be formally initiated by waheguru, ie. to get a Guru b/c that is the maryada of this world.

He was not given Amrit by vishnu or by imam Ali. pointless revisionism.

Yes I agree with you Xylitol and I DONT understand that how can the mods tolerate a person who says that "they" took amrit from imaams, ... and how can someone tolerate JV when he said khalsa originated in iran.. He is just trying to create confusion. It is a shock to me that he stayed for such long time on this forum.

"although I have much respect for JV's knowledge and courage, his words, attitude and Krodh does disgust me from time to time, and reflects nothing of the Khalsa.

JV has no knowledge. I have lived and interacted with Iranians. There is a small, a very small part of Iran that speaks hindi... and thats it... nothing more. We may have somethings common with Iran, but that is only through trade we had several hundred years ago, but it has nothing to do with sikhi or influencing it.

As for the things that JV says, he is just trying to delude us. I know about Iran. Imagine ifyou guys were to live in England with strict priests and clergies and crusader type of people, who were bent on pushing their ideas by force...how would your life be???? and thats what exactly Iran is.

Iran practices public executions. They are just like talibans, the country is ruled by shia priests/imams who have the power to sentence anyone to death to anyone who speaks against the government. There are so many Iranians who migrate to USA just to escape the extremism of their governments. Iran/persia is not what you think as potrayed in movies. Its got nothing great..but just a bunch of fundamentalists fighting for political power. So many Iranians escape iran bcoz they dont want to live there. They have moral police there..jsut google in "moral police" and see what it means.

I fully concur with everything Javanmard has said, and fully echo his sentiments regarding Iran and India. India would indeed benefit considerably from being a part of a greater Persian confederacy. Furthermore it is a duty for every right-thinking individual to challenge institutions such as female infanticide and foeticide and cultural revisionism with the vigour exhibited by Javanmard here on this forum. Sadly we see too many apologists or downright apathy concerning the problem that is modern India.

I am disgusted by the attitude displayed by wahegurubol here. Are we now supposed to lie about the origins of the Punjabi language and pretend the Guru Sahiban made it up?? This is ridiculous. And apart from Punjabi language, the Indian subcontinent has drawn from Persian culture for millenia. If we wanted to know more about this, we could ask Javanmard. We could, but now we can't, because he's banned because some unknown guy called wahegurubol who thinks the Gurus created Punjabi language feels offended?? Unbelievable.

veer ji, what are you saying? javanmard is trying to delude us.

First he says that punjabi was originated in Iran.. let me clear your mind it was our Guru saibaans that first broughtup the letters of gurmukhi and introduced this language to us.

moreover in the other thread he issaying khalsa panth originated iran??? thats also wrong and that our Guru ji's took amrit from imaams.

I dont understand what you are trying to say, perhaps you are javanmard with a different Id.

as for Iran beinga great country. my friend Iran is one of those countries that is ruled by STRICT, VERY STRICT Religious clergy which is fundamentalist and radicalist....the life that you enjoy in UK, Canada , you cannot enjoy in countries like Iran-Afghanistan.

People are crying in afghanistan, they are ready to be beggars in india rather than stay in afghanistan. if you dont believe me goto sikhnet.com/discussion section and read there.

elderly people enjoying..they have every right to be happy... why ru making fun of them.

trust me geezer, life in london is not fun......why do call yourself "Wahegurubol" and swear in most of your posts? clueless.....must be the bollywood influence.

i havent been to london,but i have been to USA, Canada and also Iran...

Trust me... life in London might not be so fun, its not even fun in USA... but I would say life in westerncountries is a 100 times better than the life you would get in Iran. You want to stay in Iran with moral police checking on you ifyouhave girlfriend or a boyfriend ! andthen they jail you. you like to see public hangings and no freedom of speech , if you say anything against the iranian government in iran .. you are bound to be hanged in public.... !! you have to live their way or accept death... if thats the lifeyou want ..then go with that fundu !

Admin note: Wahegurubol, we have to neutral on the forum, after reading this thread. We have to give you first verbal warning for swearing on the forum. Please read the forum before posting swearing words. It will not tolerated.

Gurfateh and salaams to all!

People here have really great fun much more than what I have ever seen in Paris or London.

Eat Shit !

Are you crazy ! have you ever seen Paris /London or forthat fact Canada.... and you are trying to compare those countries with Iran !!!!, that opresses its people and kills 16 year old girls!!!! just for having boyfriends.

man did you ever go out of Iran onthe first place? If they knew you were Iranian they wouldnt even give you a visa !

Dear wahegurubol,

Ur wasting your time with him mere bhai.

kichad mein pathar kyon marte ho.

You are right veer ji. I am new to this forum,but I guess he is one of those who should better be ignored.

Admin Note: Thanks for bringing your messages forward to the forum. We are sorry to hear about your expereince on Sikhawareness. To protect our members from threats, intimidation we have decided to ban "Javanmard" from this forum after many warnings in the past regarding his fierce attitude towards fellow members. I hope you didnt let this expereince over shadow the true expereince being on Sikhawareness Forum.

Sikhawareness Team

I mean your Hindi and Panjabi is FULL of farsi words. Even your food is influenced by Iran: naan, kebabs, byriani, shahi tukre etc...

Oh and the architecture: Taj Mahal, Lal Qila etc...!

Punjabi/Gurmukhi was made by Guru Saibaans !!!

as for your naan and kebaabs.. I dont eat those, so keep them to yourself.. the only thing I have seen iranians eating is those big huge brown iranian khubos..which is no where to be found in india.

as for Taj Mahal and Lal Qila... yea I forgot to mention, you dudes already tried to conqueror India with an unsuccessful attempt and those Taj Mahal is on Indian Soil is just an evidence of it.

Now shut up ..u lamer

You're hilarious...shall I help you get a visa?

i already have visitors visa for canada... and i have visa for USA also...

now you better find yourself a place to hide, cos USA is gonna bomb your country back to stone age !

From: Javanmard

To: wahegurubol

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:28

Subject:

India is better Quote message

Look maachod (admin-cut) you and your fake aryan people ok? You're just one of these Indian bhenchods sucking George Bush's dick and dreaming of a visa. If you love India so much stay there and don't try and get visas here ok?

btw I forgot to tell you: (admin-cut) YOU!!!

If their deaths are unaccounted then how can you or anyone else know that 5 or 6 people have consistently fallen from the tower to their deaths every day for 200 or 240 days? What is the evidence for this? Are we to believe that the main contractor, the sub-contractors, the workers themselves, the public health and safety officials, the police, ambulance service, hospitals, coroners and mortuaries are all involved in a conspiracy to cover up the alleged death toll of 1200 and rising?

Well this is how it works. A worker dies... the company has to pay insurance money otherwise there is a court case against it.

In a big booming city like Dubai... which is very glamarous and gorgeous..there really is no value for the poor man labourer who works in the heat. Dubai is expesnive country and its for the rich and famous.

You are right, best to place is NZ...away from all this roolla rapa...do you have any relatives living there by the way veer ?

hi neo veer, i agree.. i have also been to toronto and i absolutely loved canada... i wonder if any way i can get settled there or geta job.. ihave visitors visa.

found this on sikhnet.com/youth center. i guess hes asking for oral sex...LOL LOL LOL

###############################################

summary of Question: I Love Making Love To My Wife

Category: Love & Marriage

Date Posted: Sunday, 2/04/2001 9:12 PM MST

Hi,

I'm in love with my fiancee, we've been together for 8 years now and got engaged a year ago and will marry in a year. I went through your forum and searched for this question so here goes:

We made love a couple of times before and after the engagement. The thing is that we cant keep away from each other but have decided that we want to wait till after we are married before we make love again. I want to know how far can we go after marriage and still keep in accordance to sikhi... like is it ok for two people in love to really love each other or would that be considered lust(even if its your spouse you are crazy about). And what is one to make of different positions and styles ??? As far as doing it before marriage well we dont feel sorry or feel that we have commited a sin, cuz we like really love each other, is that wrong ?

Last but not least... Love the site and seva you are doing for the community!

God bless!!!

I have recently been getting hate mail daily in my inbox for the past 2-3 days... I will paste them here. You can even log into my account and check if you want.

From: Javanmard

To: wahegurubol

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 00:38

Subject:

India is the best Quote message

I hope one day we invade India destroy your Hindu bullshit racist culture!!! Trust me we won't convert you. You are not worthy of even being civilised you women haters!!!

From: Javanmard

To: wahegurubol

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 23:09

Subject:

India is the best... Quote message

Yes a judge sentenced a 16 year old to death, but it's also true that the same judge is under investigation and might face charges thanks to Shirin Ebadi.

As for your beloved India, it sentences every year MILLIONS OF UNBORN GIRLS WITHOUT TRIAL JUST FOR BEING GIRLS! So much for your India!!!

Yes a judge sentenced a 16 year old to death, but it's also true that the same judge is under investigation and might face charges thanks to Shirin Ebadi. As for your beloved India, it sentences every year MILLIONS OF UNBORN GIRLS WITHOUT TRIAL JUST FOR BEING GIRLS! So much for your India!!!Yes a judge sentenced a 16 year old to death, but it's also true that the same judge is under investigation and might face charges thanks to Shirin Ebadi. As for your beloved India, it sentences every year MILLIONS OF UNBORN GIRLS WITHOUT TRIAL JUST FOR BEING GIRLS! So much for your India!!!

(admin-cut) YOU

(admin-cut) INDIA

You only deserve to be made into slaves!!!

Find a post where I say Iran is mighty and holy...

In Iran at least this doesn't happen:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...h&plindex=1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...h&plindex=1

Dont show me those female fetoicide videos, I know it happens, every country has good or bad points. but i dont understand that why you are coming on this forum and trying to show us that Iran is a freedom-oriented/tolerant country...when it is not. Iran is ruled by strict religious clergy ... who are you by the way, whats your real name?

Man, I have been UAE.. i am a construction engineer myself. There is no source that 1,200 ppl have died, cos no body will make it public.. but I know how work is done on high rise buildings and workers dont even come down for days when they work 500 meters high. on an average every day 5 or 6 people fall from that tower.. whose deaths are not accounted.

Dubai Sikhs !! OMG! i have been to Dubai Gurudwaras... yes sikhs are liking it... but not a single woman to see... not a single family type of people there. While dubai grants freedom, it is a place only to work, sleep and eat there is no family life there..expenses are so high.

As foryour Iran... dont talk about it... I dont even want to argue with you. It is one of those countries that repress and forces its people. I dont know who you are , perhaps your not even sikh ! so leave it please. but what type of a country are you trying to be proud of , a country that has a MORAL POLICE to check on your private life and on your private matters !!!! and then arrest you and hoist 15 feet high with a crane !

dont try to delude people that Iran is a very good country.. its not, because I know it.. they are communist.. dictators who repress their people.

As for India, yes female infetocide is there and it is one of the evils I condemn....and the Indian government is against this ...

LOL

What are you laughing for, u IRANI admin cut ? is there no moderator here

what non-sense are you talking about !!!! ... Iran execute 16 year old girls, hang them in public just cos they had pre-marital sex !!! .. See the video on youtube.com . I will not goto Iran as it is has become the sniper target of US.

as for UAE... i dont know what u liked so much about UAE... 1,200 ppl have so far died in the construction of burj dubai the tallest building in the world. You go and visit their labour quarters and the way they treat labourers with menial salaries and such poor living conditions is horrific.

India is still the best... Canada is best.. out of middle east, I would say Bahrian is good..Kuwait is also very good. Muscat is also good. ..but not UAE

But yes if you live in America your allegiance as a citizen is to America not your community. If you don't like it then tough!

As a sikh your allegance is first to sikhi...then to any country...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x34ak2_mexican-flags_news

so if we wanted to raise the Nishan sahib, will it be wrong in America?

americans are so arrogant... and for what country are they fighting for, its not even theirs..the real americans are the Indian Americans.....the whites stole this land from them. Thumbs down for you americans.