wahegurubol

Kavita ji, you once told me that your dad wants to convert to islam and hes amritdhari.... is there something you are thinking about it?

So... technically if you eat a kebab you're a manmukh but if you kill your father you can still be khalsa?

First of all.. Amrit can never be broken. It can never become Khandit. Yes even if you commit the 4 bujjet kurehits.. Your amrit is never broken.

Because if your amrit breaks , then that what you had taken was not amrit.

Amrit means immortality. Amrit means that which cannot be destroyed. Amrit mean that which cannot be broken.

This is why we say "WE TOOK AMRIT FROM THE GURU."

So once a person becomes amritdhari, he becomes Guru-wala. The duty of the Guru is to deliver that person out of the cycle of birth and rebirth. Even after death the Guru will always be with such a person. It is the duty of the Guru, this is why a Guru is called Guru (dispeller of darkness)

A person can do several bujjer kurehits over his life time.. a person can do several illegal stuff. He will get punished for it for sure... but ultimately he will get delivered by the Guru.

A child can do several wrong things in life, a child can steal, lie ... but the mother will ultimately change the habits of the child, this is the duty of the mother. The mother will not see the merits-demerits of the child.

But a child who is without a mother, can do several bad things in life, but since the child has no mother... the child will not get delivered.

So a person may do several bajjer kurehits and if he realises his/her mistake then that person can pesh infront of the panj pyare or do ardaas and continue to follow the way of the khalsa botherhood.

A person may kill his father as kavita said, still that person upon realising his/her mistake can pesh infront of panj pyare or simply ask forgiveness in front of SGGS and can continue to live the way he is suppose to live keeping his rehat.

We can several wrong things in life.. kurehits or non-kurehits... but then when we realise our mistakes we can say "I wish to start life the way I had left it back when I was khalsa"..... and thats fine.

The Bajjar Kuraits are the four basic things that which we MUST avoid in life.

Namely, eating meat, sex outside marriage, cutting hair, and intoxicants.

Yes there are other things also which we MUST avoid... but everything cant be put into writing.

In all cases... once you have taken amrit. it wont die. cos amrit is amrit !

by drinking amrit one becomes immortal... so not in this life-time but maybe in more lifetimes, the person who was once amritdhari will surely get delivered out the cycle of death-rebirth.

The links to sant jis pic is not working. can u post them please

i see u r back javanmard.

Me, Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Mohammed and Imam Ali are all one.

LOL !!

These countries r still living in the dark-ages of Europe. Thats what I have been trying to say for so long, when I talk about Iran.

Just yesterday only I was listenning to katha . Someone who first gives himself to the Guru and then ditches to the Guru and goes to another place. Never finds peace in lok and parlok ! Such a person the author compared to a married woman who ditches her husband and goes toanother.

its not a fork... but it looks like a three-ended spear, commonly used as a weapon by shiva ...

i read some of it.. i really cant read it... but such carnages have happened in every country

in the 2000s it happened with the muslim community in Gujarat...

men filled with hatred can do anything everything.

Those who took part in the carnage will surely be punished afterlife if not now. but what can one do now !

Indira is dead , so is Rajiv... I wonder where they are now.

At first point these people rape a girl and then ask her to conver to Islam and follow the HOLY KORAN ! What can one think of Islam?

Does this religion allow rape against non-muslims and then forcefully conver them.

Check this out also .... http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=10109 two girls 11 and 16 kidnapped and forced to convert to islam and married off to strangers.

yes i agree with matheen ji

I have started listening to japji sahib vichar sagar deep divine meanings of gurbani by gyani thakur singh ji which required gyani ji close to 80 hours to do the full japji sahib katha which is exteremly deep. This is for actual seekers who are willing to learn depth of gurbani:

you can listen to vast deptness of japji sahib - http://www.gurmatveechar.com/katha.php?k=gts

So I have managed with my limited buddi to translate just 1 file out of 81 audio files by gyani discourse in punjabi into my broken english..translations are not fully carbonn copy. I have translated whatever will be exteremely helpful to sangat. Mind you, in course of translation, i also have to make sure this stuff does not confuse the sangat..so i have kept it simple.

1st tape covers vast knowledge of "ikongkar".

Here is the actual vichar of what ikongkar means:

Sidhas told guru ji - in vedas- there is aom, why did you add "ik" "ong" "kar" and made it "ikongkar". Guru Ji said - aom means trinity (rajo, tamo, sato guni), is made of akar, okar, makar- akar is rajoguni represents bhrama(creator of world), okar is satogun represents vishnu(preserver) and makar is tamogun repersents shivji(destroyer). Guru ji asked sidhas, in this aom, show me where is vahiguroo who is the creator of these three dieties???

Sidhas all went in silence.

Guru ji further explained - Ik represents advait sidhant (non-duality)and it also break rules like - bhramin caste can only recite aom/ong, khatri can only listen to it but not recite and vaish/shadur caste cannot recite aom or listen. Guru Ji further asked sidhs if wives of bhramin, khatri, vaish/shadur have right to recite/listen aom? Sidh replied- no even they don't. Guru ji replied and said - then the aom is only for bhramins..that's why i have added- Ik in front.

Ong represent combination of aom - akar,okar, makar- Rajoguni, ,Satogun, Tamogun.

Kar represents god in nirgun roop (non-existent, inaccessible). Kar is actual karan(cause)/karaj(task) roop of ong. God being in nirgun gave nourishment/power to bhrama (deity) to create this world, vishnu to perserve and shiv ji to destroy.

that's why i have added- Ik infront which is advait (non-duality), ong - resosance(hound) which creates trinity and kar at the end to represent - God's actual roop - Nirgun(non-existent, inaccesiable, agam, agochar) and made - Ikongkar like as if rain pours every-where..it' belongs to everyone...anyone can recite it regardless of race, religion, creed, status... - men, women, children..anyone..because we actually reciting god's name ultimately...no one has monoply over god.

Guru ji further told sidhas that we only recite one's god name with no duality, sing his praises only, only talk about one, only worships one, only sevak of one.

Iko Jap iKO Salaihhe ||

Kar Ardh Bin Paichayan, Chaauro Ko Samadho Jo Ongkar painchayan ||

When we recite Ikongkar...it takes our surat(concentration) to upper realms naturally. Yogi sidhas usually recite aom aom to reach upper realms but since they are reciting aom they get darshan(vision) of three devta's - bhram, vishnu, shiv instead of higher supreme reality. recitation is not complete. It's only complete if one recites kar with aom or ikong because when we recite kar. It takes us to upper realm in dasam dwara where we get "Atam Anand/Bhram Anand" . There are two types of anand- 1. Bhram anand. 2. Yoga Ananda.. Bhram anand is never ending always infinte anand one gets compare to yoga anand which is temporary after surat goes down...yoga anand disappears. Guru Nanak dev ji wrote kar which has all the parkash.

There are 6 things which vahiguroo give parkash-

Bijli- Lighting

Tare- Star

Suroj- Sun

CHandarama - Moon

Munuk di buddi- Being intellect

Earth- Fire.

Full gurbani from siri guru granth sahib ji came from Ikongkar.

Bij Mantar Sab Ko Gian | (Sukhmani Sahib)

Root mantra gives everyone light of supreme knowledge.

Bij Mantar is - Ikongkar.

Gyani ji also says- not to recite Ikongkar alone because of its intensity..people like us cannot handle it's intensity..that's why guru ji added- Ikongkar Satnaam Kartapurkh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal Morat Ajoni Saibhang Gurparsad Jap Ad Such Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach ||

To be continued. This is exteremely deep. This is only first file out 81 files of japji sahib i manage with my limited buddi able to translate gyani ji discourse in punjabi. May Vahiguroo give me bibek buddi and his grace i can try to translate all 81 files of japji sahib in my life as time goes by. I have probably have made many mistakes during course of translation..so bhul chuk maff sangat ji.

VERY NICE ARTICLE ABOUT RECITING IKONGKAAR, WHAT ABOUT RECITING WAHEGURU , DID GYANI JI SHED SOME LIGHT ON IT?

man niranjana, i just placed my opinion there. you guys are so rude on this forum with no manner and no humility.

all i said was in that the word :True: is always placed emphasis in Gurbani, that only a True Guru can take you out of maya... many times you will find that Gurbani tells thatonly a Poora Guru one who is united and can unite others is authentic.

And yes, there are many Gurus , who claim to lead people to jivan mukti, but they are incomplete....

and you are saying that i have a "better than others" attitude.

People on this forum is so criticising each other's opinion. I have never seen a forum like this, this is why with people like you we are having sikhi falling apart.

I guess you better need to practice naam simran, do you even do you amrit vela and the 7 banis ??

BYE

what is ishtadev and vidya gurdev

as far khalsa panth is concerned there is only one TRUE GURU... emphasis is placed on the word "TRUE" ..that only a Guru who is united with God can be called a Guru unlike other panths where even a swami becomes a Guru.

It is not helpful to say the things w/bol is saying. People must make their own decisions. I agree with xylitol, but, creating pressure in the coke bottle is relatively easy once you know how. The difficult part is retaining this shaktee, and putting it to good use. That is why conservation of sexual energy must be carried out by an individual who has knowledge of himself and a deep knowledge of gurbani, and other systems, preferably under supervision of a spiritual elder who knows better. w/bol is aimless he will create shaktee for what end? He will no doubt reply to merge with waheguru, but what does this mean this aim is wishy washy, the nuances of this concept have to be brought out in order to formulate a concrete aim which the accumulated shaktee can be utilised for. Who is waheguru? And what merges? etc etc. Knowledge is the only way to retain shakti or spiritual energy, not dead knowledge living knowledge. If an individual cultivates his shakti without knowledge he will be a stupid saint, he will have energy but won’t no what end to use it for. Anyone who is honest to themselves should ask what their aims are in spiritual life, many people do not know.

My friend you are making a simple thing very complicated.

First of all no human being on this world can fight or be free from sexual thoughts ! no matter how much tapsya or yoga he does !

Second of all.... any human being who does a simple ardaas to WAHEGURU with full HUMILITY will instantly be protected from sexual thoughts, so if you get sexual thoughts pray to WAHEGURU and see your WILL POWER get double and triple .. this daass is saying from personal experience.

The problem is that most human beings will not do ardaas to maharaaj cos they really really enjoy masturbation

What I am asking you to expand on what these "negative astral spirits or entities" are? You make us of such grand references without even an iota of qualifying what you are refering to or what you mean. Please kindly state what these "negative astral spirits or entities" are, or at least provide some references by which to look into the subject.

Otherwise, your assertion amounts to little more than pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo.

Thanks,

Niranjana.

Niranjna,what I said about negative astral entities is something that I have experienced personally and hence it is not something that can be easily explained unless one hasnt experience the astral realm.

Well all live in the physical world... but when we meditate and when we loose conscious of our physical body during meditation, we can experience the more subtle worlds and the more subtle things happening around us... There is another world that exists which is called the astral world ! ... or in punjabi and in gubani it is mentioned as suksham world or suksham shareer. After death when you leave your physical body you leave it through your astral body or suksham shareer.

The Suksham shareer is attracted to thoughts/energies depending on wether they are positive or negative.

For example when people do a lot of masturbation or a lot of bad things, then these astral spirits who also like such thoughts get attracted towads you through your thoughts. So after masturbating if you meditate really really deep then you can vividl feel astral entities of the same like !

We are not independent of these astral entities or spirits. They interact with our lives at all times. If you litsen to the suleman tape, he explains how the preth atmas (negative astral beings) use to get attracted to people who had died of negative vikaars.

So it is the same for someoone who masturbate then they unknowingly/knowingly depending on their avatha attract negative spirits towards them.

I hope I have explained this to you the best I can, I am not sure if you will agree with me, but its true... cos I have experienced the astral world.

Jannat, what you are trying to say is based on western psychology or interpretation that trying to stop masturbation can lead dangerous problems, but this will happen only when the mind is thinking masturbation and the body is forced not to do masturbation.

However, with Gurbani from my personal experience you can stop the mind from thinking masturbation.. .infact it will stop automatically and one can remain without doing masturbation as long as one wants. The problem arises when we forget gurbani and naam simran, that is the time that illicit thoughts crap into the mind.

Niranjana, Yes masturbation or infact indulging in any negative anti-gurmat thing will attract negative astral spirits or entities to you. Someone who has done enough meditation can actually see this happening in the astral realm. A person who doesnt have enough spiritual wealth will not be able to see this happening, but a person who can go deep into meditation can see the negative effects of masturbation and sexual thoughts.

jannat, so what are you trying to say?that masturbation is alright ! ... LOL .. i cant believe the detiorating state of the panth today. LOL oh my god !

Niranjana, its very simple. Masturbate and then try to meditate at Amrit Vela, try to go deep in meditation and you will know how masturbation affects the human mind n a negative way.

i dont claim myself to be perfect brahmacharya or celibate...

masturbation destroys all the spiritual practice u did.... its a devastation at a nuclear scale.

man just read the story of baba ji;s life which i posted above, in which the man eats lambs and then how he suffers. the story is from se kinehya. bus who am i to say anything.

i have seen majority sikhs in western countries consume meat... and in india amritdharis dont eat meat.

I dont want to argue any more with meat eaters, but those eat meat will definetly have to pay the price. To close this discussion, I would like to paste a small story which I was reading from the biography Se Kinehya, It is about a man who was amritdhari , had slaughtered some lambs.. here is the story.

It is from the life of RESPECTED SHRI SANT HARNAAM SINGH JI RAMPUR KHERA VALEY.

I would suggest everyone and especially Maha Kharg Singh to read it.. who thinks he can get away with slaughtering animals.

***************************************************************

Baba Ji had a devotee who lived near Jalandhar. He was God

loving and religiously minded but was nonetheless easily misled by

materialistic thoughts. That person arranged his daughter’s marriage to

a rich but materialistic family. The day for the wedding was fixed. The

gifts and dowry to be exchanged had been agreed. Finally, the menu for

lunch was discussed. The groom’s family insisted on having liquor and

meat at the wedding lunch. This devotee of Baba Ji raised some

opposition to this demand but hesitated, thinking that if he were to flatly

deny this demand then the groom’s family may break off the engagement.

Influenced by his soon to be relatives, he agreed to serve meat and

liquor at the lunch. The wedding day drew closer. The family came to

deliver an invitation to Baba Ji and requested Baba Ji to attend the

wedding ceremony and bless the couple.

Baba Ji asked them where they had arranged their daughter’s

marriage. He told Baba Ji about the family where his daughter was to

be married and let slip that meat and liquor would be served because

the groom’s family insisted upon it. Baba Ji listened patiently to the

devotee’s admission and sighed deeply. He said, “O my good man, to

stifle your own conscience under the influence of your relatives, showing

your back to the Guru’s principles and doing that which is immoral

reflects badly upon you. In doing so, what do we hope to gain in attracting

the Guru’s displeasure. Our wise ancestors considered marrying our

daughters off as a great and pious act of charity. On one hand, you are

to perform a pious act and on the other many innocent animals are to be

slaughtered for the transient pleasure of our taste buds.

After the wedding, your daughter will go to her new house but

who will shoulder the sin of slaughtering so many animals? Remember,

you will have to carry this burden of sin and repay the debt in this and

the next life. If your daughter is destined to be married into that household

then she will marry into that family without any doubt. By offering meat

and liquor is not going to cement her relations with that family anymore

strongly than they are already destined. Neither will her marriage to

that family deteriorate if you do not offer meat and drink. If you, as a

baptised Sikh, falter in your vows like this, then what hope is there for

the rest of the people? A gursikh should not abandon one’s vows or

principles. He who abandons his principles is pushed around in this

world and pushed out of God’s abode in the hereafter. If, as a gursikh,

you behave in such a way, with what face can you or I tell others to

abstain from liquor or meat. Only the one who practices moral principles

can preach to others. He, who does not practice what he preaches and

is thus a hypocrite, is not accepted in the Guru’s house. There is still

time to rethink your decision and change your mind.

The devotee listened despondently and with a sense of shame but

still asked Baba Ji to attend the wedding. Baba Ji replied that a wedding

where so many animals were to be killed for pleasure of the palate and

where the Guru’s principles were abandoned in favour of public approval

would be difficult to attend.

That devotee sat a while and then left for his abode. The wedding

party arrived on the appointed day. On one side, the wedding was being

conducted in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and on the other,

a short distance away; lambs were awaiting their death in order to

provide pleasure for the guest’s palates.

This surreal programme, of joy mixed with sorrow, finished at

noon. The guests drank and ate, returning to their homes in a drunken

stupor. Next the bride’s relatives had their turn to finish off the remaining

alcohol and meat. With drunken people falling all over the place, it was

amusing, in that no one needed a bed for the night to sleep in.

Anyhow, the girl went to her in laws and a few days later the

Sardar Ji was on his way into Jalandhar riding his scooter when he had

an accident and broke his hip. Writhing in pain Sardar Ji was transported

by car to a local hospital. The doctors there could not treat him and

advised that he be taken to a bigger hospital with an experienced surgeon.

He required major surgery, which involved replacing his hip with a steel

prosthetic implant. The family members asked the doctor’s to relieve

his pain until he could be taken to another hospital. The doctors attached

a weight to Sardar Ji’s foot and laid him to rest. Five or six days were

spent crying with excruciating pain. Only he knew how painful the

fracture was but any visitors who came heard his blood curdling cries

of pain. Contrary to the advice of the doctors the family brought Sardar

Ji home and asked a local quack to fix his fractured hip instead of taking

him to the specialist hospital. For three months, he was unable to move

and being bedridden had to relieve himself whilst on the bed. He was

utterly dependent on others to help him. By the fourth month, he was

well enough to sit on the bed. Whoever visited him during these days

would be told by Sardar Ji that he had been punished for killing those

speechless animals. “To appease my daughter’s in-laws I ordered the

killing of these animals and in return, I have been punished and must

endure this extreme suffering and pain.†In the early days of his recovery,

he had sent word to Baba Ji to come and visit him. He sent a message

apologising to Baba Ji for not listening to his advice. As is the gentle,

forgiving nature of Saints, Baba Ji decided to visit Sardar Ji. Baba Ji sat

me beside him in the car. As soon as we arrived, the devotee started

crying inconsolably, repenting his mistake and begged forgiveness. He

confessed, “I abandoned my Guru’s principles under the influence of

my new found relatives. Please forgive me Baba Ji. Baba Ji replied,

“Sardar Ji you are mistaken to ask for my forgiveness, it is the Almighty

who forgives. Pray for his forgiveness and repent your mistake in front

of him alone. I only petitioned you take a particular action which you

ignored. Are those people now sharing your pain for whose sake you

earned and took upon such a sin? They made merry, ate and drank,

then vanished off to their homes. You however must carry the burden

of sin. They only came to enquire about your health once or twice. The

pain you suffered is but a partial payment for your sin, there is more yet

to repay because Gurbani says…

Whatever deeds you have performed or are carried out at your

command, you alone will have to answer for them. No one else can

repay your debt or suffer for your sins. The Lord is beneficent and

forgiving. In front of his grace, these sins are washed away like straw

in a flood of water. Bhai Vir Singh Ji has mentioned a beautiful anecdote

in his poem “Necklace of waves†that time, which has elapsed, cannot

be recalled. The present time cannot be utilised by repenting our sinful

deeds in remorse. Try to ask our friend the Almighty Waheguru to forgive

our trespass. In the future, try to avoid making mistakes by acting upon

the Guru’s’ advice.†For nearly a year Sardar Ji was left bedridden and

even today, he limps on one leg when walking. To this day Sardar Ji

guides people by giving them the benefit of learning from his experience,

telling them of his traumatic experience

************************************************************

Veer ji , How dyou know the information present on sarbloh site is authentic. I choose to believe in what the sants say who are UNITED WITH GURU ! cos what they speak is what the WILL OF GURU is.

secondly veer ji, to say that jhatka is a gift from the Guru would equate to saying that slaughtering animals as sacrifice to Allah is a gift from Allah , but Guru ji condemned all such sacrifices.

tsingh, the opinion of the person who i posted had done 4 years night seva at Harmandar Saab and is of very high great avastha.

What exactly are you trying to imply with the monkey example that sex outside marriage or before marriage is okay in sikhi ???

Sikhi is a path for householders.

well I had met one gursikh at the time when i myself didnt want to marry and follow a grihst life.

He said God created opposite sexes... men and women.... and they both must unite ! and thats God's creation. If we go against marriage we are just defying His creation. Ofcourse a celibate can also reach akal purakh, but it will be very HARD in that way, but in grihst life you can reach quicker ! That is allthat Imeant by will of God.

As for animals running around and screwing each other .. I dontknow, I dont care and dont even would like to know. Its all God's mysterious lila ! which is beyond ourunderstanding

Gautam Buddha and his disciples ate meat and pork. They use to beg for food, but before they went begging for food they were told not to look what they got in their begging bowls and just eat whatever came their way.

So in this case meat eat is acceptable. Meat eating is also acceptable if you are in a war and you got no food around you and no choice.

But consider we are living in the year 2007. We have import/export trade of food going on , no matter where we live and what we do , we dont need to eat meat, unless we are perhaps fighting at the border of some country or marooned on an island alone all by ourselves !