tSingh

Dear lil-Princess

I take it you haven't seen that episode of 'Only fools and horses' from years ago, when Delboy invents the turbanator helmet (a crash helmet with a white pagri on top) so that a sardar can keep his identity whilst being safe!

doh, just noticed your in canada

'only fools and horses' is a long running UK comedy about a couple of dodgy goods dealers in london

a few thoughts...

The importance of parampara is that it firstly values the importance in respecting historical traditions, institutions, personalities, etc. Therefore, it could be argued that it is the essence of orthodoxy and authority.

It also serves as a means by which an individual's learning can be qualified. Obviously this is not fool proof, but is at least a better measure of knowledgable authority than a self-proclaimed authority. It's like a qualified teacher vs. unqualified. You can't say which is better, but you can at the very least guarentee that the qualified has some idea of what she/he is doing!

run out of time...more later

just been reading a bit about Adam Kadmon via Kaballah...hmmm hmmmm tasty stuff

or as Aziz Mian would holler 'Aaa....dum'

I find this aspect of the creation of the sampraday by Guruji fascinating, as a deliberate undermining of varna-asrama structure (Nirmalae, Nihangs and Udasis in particular)

world peace = less praying, more doing...we can't even get our own homes in order, never mind anyone elses

...we are spinning microcosms

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

undergroundsikhi;

but if my jot and God are essentially one and the same, does that mean WaheGuru's crap at tennis also?

Mugermuch, are there REALLY better things to be praying for? Isn't that just maya biting you in the ass?

alaaah HU HU shabaaaaaaazzzzzzzzz qalandhar

If this is true, how come everytime I play tennis, match point, I say 'waheguru waheguru' and it flies into the net...

Wait for Pandit Narayan Singh Ji's work

I don't understand!

Gurfateh

The future's looking good! There are SO MANY puratan & sampadava texts (original and translations from sanskrit) that need translating (and in some cases, locating firstly). They will enrich our understanding of Sikhi no end. On top of this there are non-Sikh texts that were used in traditional vidiyalas which could be translated. A lifetime's worth of work!

Don't worry mate, I was just pulling your plonker

How do you know that the old ladies are not going to start dealing and whoring just to fuel their lottery habit? Have you ever played bingo, do you know how psychologically addictive it is?

Mr Singh:

You say that crack does more nooksaan, but how about this:

person is addicted to crack, gets therapy, is clean for life.

old lady buys a lottery ticket, keeps buying them, needs help...who does she turn to? Who can she seek help from? Dorothy is out with her granchildren. Edith is playing Bridge with the fellas. So she instead gets involved in jumping young boys on the street just to fuel her habit...ends up in the smacka, dies a cold lonely death.

Dear Steel Bangle and Mr Singh;

Could I use your same excuse for being an amritdhari pimp and crack dealer, that as long as I don't actually use either, then I'm as kosha as falafel?

Sure, jjj, I've been told the same, but that doesn't mean I give in and say 'yep, it's my genes, off I go'. We all have our own flaws. It's whether we let our egos use it as an excuse for apathy. We both now it's easier not to have to tackle it and pretend it's gone away, or constantly make new promises to Waheguru, than to actually wake up and deal with it.

KhalsaSoulja; you're advice to jjj is lacking in maturity and Sikhi.

It's pretty clear by the number of posts, jjj, you're shocked by what you did, which is a good start!

I advise reading Sri Sukhmani Sahib, slowly and carefully (God knows I should 24/7), especially the sections on brahmgyanis and then think about how you can apologise properly to the bloke. Krodh is your mortal enemy, and needs to be beaten twice as hard as anyone who slanders your beliefs.

Gurfateh

No need to get so angry, just let them bark.

If your bhagti is strong then nothing can touch you, not even the heat of a red-hot tava.

Gurfateh

Initially you may find that there is ecstacy, often this simmers away, but the aim is to rekindle it, that burning love that makes your voice break and your eyes gush with unconditional love.

The question is, what produces and sustains that love? It can be many things; poetry, music, gyan, etc. For Nirmalae the assumption is that you flow with the thoughts and ideas.

Gurfateh

Just a quick question for Bikramjit;

As you have placed a great amount of validity on the particular quote from Bachittar Natak, do you accept it as Guru Gobind Singh ji's own writings?

curious to know your view

cheers

From a Freudian perspective, dreams are a means for individuals to express the inexpressable or the morally unacceptable (as defined by the superego).

I'd imagine that those who repress all their desires and who don't give the psyche chance to express and release those desires will be negatively affected by them.

Perhaps the reason why increasing naam simran will change the nature of your dreams is perhaps because when you increase naam simran, you also make efforts to live and think in a morally acceptable way, thus calming your desire-drven id. Therefore, less repressed desires to have to work through.

Thats using Freudian theory anyway.

Gurfateh

A friend once said to me 'Why don't amritdharis smile?' - not entirely true, but some mindsets seem to make certain people more emotionless zombie-like than others, hehe.

There has to be a balance. If you're remembering death 24/7 and you can still laugh at it then even better. It's always good to laugh at both maya and yourself. Taking yourself too seriously is your haumai/duality.

We are made of dirt, we'll become dirt. Always helpful to remember that! Great Sewapanthi saints of the past were almost comical in their self-deprecation and humility (I'm thinking Bhai Jagta here). I was reading Hakim Sanai's Hadiqat this week and he was calling me everything under the sun, 'son of a donkey' 'tavern-crawling wretch', etc. I was laughing my head off, because this bloke had clocked what I am like nearly a 1000 years ago! Great stuff.

Gurfateh

The answer is quite simple.

By undermining the traditional schools of learning, the traditional sources of raag vidya, then you lose that tradition itself.

Don't worry N30, I've been destined to be reborn as a prawn for years now

you're going be reborn as a keema samosa

anybody here watch bo'selecta?

Yaa hoo!!

Gurfateh

Bikramjit

I see little point in continuing this 'debate'.

To finish with, I shall post a few quotes from the respected Islamic scholar Prof. Hasan Qaribullah:

This is from a translation of the Holy Koran by the Grand Shaykh, Professor Hasan Qaribullah, Dean of Umm Durman Islamic University. He states:

There is not one single verse in the Koran that says “O Believers, do not befriend the Jews and the Christians … ” however in bad translations from Urdu to English you may find such mistranslation. The Arabic verse clearly states “Believers, take neither Jews nor Nazarenes (Christians) for your guides … ” in spirituality, which is understandable

see also:

[4.144] Believers, do not take the unbelievers for guides instead of the believers, or do you desire to give Allah a clear authority over you?

9.23] Believers, do not take your fathers or your brothers for a guide if they love disbelief rather than belief. Whosoever of you takes them for guides are the harmdoers.

There are several verses in the Koran that refer to killing the unbelievers (worshipers of stones), such verses relate directly to the battle fields of 1500 years ago, when early Muslims were persecuted as the early Christians persecuted. True path of Islam is moderation, therefore Muslims should lead exemplary lives and preach the religion to non- Muslims and not kill them. Over the centuries many non-Muslims choose to live under Islamic protections (i.e. Spain) and were never subjected to persecution

One thing I have noticed from a quick search on the internet is that these distorted quotes of verse 5.51 and 4.89 only appear on either Wahabi or Christian fundamentalist websites

with that I'll bow out - for good this time