laalsingh

amardeep, you think errors, sins and murder take place against God's will. Definitions of errors, sin and murder vary across religions, tribes, communities. Lord's law of nature is simple action and reaction. Actions we do, engrossed in worldly pleasures and temptations, we must face reaction. If Lord want it, we will do it. We can't blame it on so-called Lord's nemesis Satan. Lord has no equal. As Guru Ramdas says, ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਦਸਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈ ਮਨਿ ਹਰੀ ॥ O True Guru, tell me of my Lord God, that I may meditate on the Naam within my mind. ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਵਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲੀ ਸਭਿ ਦੁਖ ਪਰਹਰੀ ॥੨॥ O Nanak, the Lord's Name is sacred and pure; chanting it, all my pain has been taken away. ||2|| ਪਉੜੀ ॥ Pauree: ਤੂ ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ You Yourself are the Formless Lord, the Immaculate Lord, our Sovereign King. ਜਿਨੀ ਤੂ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਸਚੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਸਭੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥ Those who meditate on You, O True Lord with one-pointed mind, are rid of all their pain. ਤੇਰਾ ਸਰੀਕੁ ਕੋ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਲਵੈ ਲਾਇ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥ You have no equal, next to whom I might sit and speak of You. ਤੁਧੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਤੂਹੈ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਾ ਤੂਹੈ ਸਚੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ You are the only Giver as great as Yourself. You are Immaculate; O True Lord, you are pleasing to my mind. ਸਚੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਹਿਬਾ ਸਚੇ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ O my True Lord and Master, Your Name is the Truest of the True. ||2|| As we read in Bara-maha (panna 136). ਹਰਿ ਜੇਹਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦਿਸਈ ਕੋਈ ਦੂਜਾ ਲਵੈ ਨ ਲਾਇ ॥ There is no other like the Lord-there is no equal to Him. Only with His grace and Guru's teachings, we can escape cycle of good/bad actions and reactions and reach Him. I will repost shabad from last post again. ਮਨਮੁਖਾ ਉਰਵਾਰੁ ਨ ਪਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਅਧ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਪਟਾਇ ॥ ਜੋ ਧੁਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਸੁ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕਰਣਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਭੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬੋਹਿਥੈ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਚੜੈ ਤੇ ਭਉਜਲਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਲੰਘਾਇ ॥੩੪॥

Shaheediyan, I read this only yesterday trying to find Gurubani's view on pre-destiny. I am willing to discuss more about this shabad and more refrences in Gurubani on free will. I understand most of abrahamic religions advocates free will. They have to. If they agree that free will does not exist, it will negate existence of hell and heaven and their blackmailing techniques won't work. We will take a look at events happening here. I read your response to my posts here. Now I am writing a reply. Question is: Do I have free will in what I write here? I think I only have illusion of free will. My response to your post only would be what my limited knowledge, my emotions (ego, love, curiosity etc) , my genetics structure of brain and some other minor factors will allow it. And only one response is possible with no other option. I came across one view put forward by proponents free will. "Suppose two men before a chessboard,--the one a novice, the other an expert player of the game. The expert intends to beat. But he cannot foresee exactly what any one actual move of his adversary may be. He knows, however, all the possible moves of the latter; and he knows in advance how to meet each of them by a move of his own which leads in the direction of victory. And the victory infallibly arrives, after no matter how devious a course, in the one predestined form of check-mate to the novice's king." They are comparing Lord to expert player and humans are novices. But this guy must be talking about a lesser God. My lord knows everything about His creations. Would'nt creator of a machine know, how machine will behave in every condition? Would'nt a perfect programmer know how his program will respond in every situation? This master chess player could not be compared to our Creator. Lord know everything. He knows about our responses. He knows about our limitations. Every occurence is going as He planned. No event is first in nature. Every event is response of another event or events. Another poster put a question earlier,"What kind of God embraces some and damnes another? " Lord has it planned for everybody. What we see is never whole truth. Our knowledge is limited. Lord could never be unfair. Remember, He is on top of pyramid here. He is the one who created these words and feelings like 'unfair'. A shabad from Third Master on panna 1417. ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਹੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਤਰਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Emotional attachment to Maya is a treacherous ocean of pain and poison, which cannot be crossed. ਮੇਰਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਪਚਿ ਮੁਏ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਤ ਵਿਹਾਇ ॥ Screaming, "Mine, mine!", they rot and die; they pass their lives in egotism. ਮਨਮੁਖਾ ਉਰਵਾਰੁ ਨ ਪਾਰੁ ਹੈ ਅਧ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਪਟਾਇ ॥ The self-willed manmukhs are in limbo, neither on this side, nor the other; they are stuck in the middle. ਜੋ ਧੁਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਸੁ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕਰਣਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ They act as they are pre-destined; they cannot do anything else. ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਭੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥ Following the Guru's Teachings, the jewel of spiritual wisdom abides in the mind, and then God is easily seen in all. ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬੋਹਿਥੈ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਚੜੈ ਤੇ ਭਉਜਲਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਲੰਘਾਇ ॥੩੪॥ O Nanak, the very fortunate ones embark on the Boat of the True Guru; they are carried across the terrifying world-ocean. ||34|| I would like to discuss other shabads from Gurubani about extent of Lord's control over our actions. Regards,

Just surrender to Waheguru's will. Understand we never had any chance of free will. We are actors in this drama of life, not players in this game of life. Players have choice, but actors in a drama not. Remember Waheguru every breathing moment. Ignorance, greed, ego, envy, etc will disappear. ***These are notes to self too. If Lord wishes I can do it too.*** A beautiful shabad from Guru Nanak from panna 475. ਪਉੜੀ ॥ Pauree: ਵਡੇ ਕੀਆ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ The description of the greatness of the Great Lord cannot be described. ਸੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਾਦਰ ਕਰੀਮੁ ਦੇ ਜੀਆ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਸੰਬਾਹਿ ॥ He is the Creator, all-powerful and benevolent; He gives sustenance to all beings. ਸਾਈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣੀ ਧੁਰਿ ਛੋਡੀ ਤਿੰਨੈ ਪਾਇ ॥ The mortal does that work, which has been pre-destined from the very beginning. ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕੀ ਬਾਹਰੀ ਹੋਰ ਦੂਜੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਾਇ ॥ O Nanak, except for the One Lord, there is no other place at all. ਸੋ ਕਰੇ ਜਿ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੨੪॥੧॥ ਸੁਧੁ He does whatever He wills. ||24||1|| Sudh||

T Kaur ji, As you said, according to His law nature is at work. Think again, these laws of nature are at work for planets, moons, living beings, particles of dust and even for smallest particles in the universe. Even cells in our brain follow laws of nature. Just think about universe at any given time. Now take into consideration absolute laws of nature. So you think next moment in universe after taking into consideration absolute laws of nature has possibility of more than one outcome? I don't think so. There is only one possible outcome in next moment. Things in present can't be changed. Laws of nature can't be changed. So how can we change next moment. Yes, we can have illusion of free will. But not outside His hukum. We found perfect Guru, just because Lord planned it. Gurus told us past misdeeds can be overcome with naam. But it will happen if Lord has planned for it.

Guru Nanak said it well in last line of first pauri of Japji. ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1| Keyword here is 'Hukum'. If we have found Guru like Guru Nanak, it is still with Lord's hukum. We never had any choice or will of our own. More in detail later.

So you say Lord left us to decide which path to chose? Just think about it for a minute. In your whole life, did you ever make any independent decision? Every decision we make is determined by factors already in place like genetics, upbringing, surroundings, recent happenings etc. Every action including our decisions are result of previous actions or factors. There is no free will, only His will. If one decide to follow sikhism, it must be influenced by company, his way of thinking and some other factors. Similarly company we keep is also result of sequence of events set in motion long before we are born. Our way of thinking too can never be totally free. Our DNA, past experiences, our current mood and many other factors determine the decision we reach at. How you say predestiny has no stance in sikhi? ਪੰਨਾ 13, ਸਤਰ 9 ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਤ ਲਿਖੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਮੰਡਲ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love. ||1|| ਪੰਨਾ 27, ਸਤਰ 8 ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੩॥ They act according to their pre-ordained destiny, which no one can erase. ||3|| ਪੰਨਾ 27, ਸਤਰ 10 ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਆਇ ॥੪॥ Those who have such pre-ordained destiny come to meet the True Guru. ||4|| ਪੰਨਾ 43, ਸਤਰ 10 ਜੇ ਹੋਵੀ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਾ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਬਚਨੁ ਕਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ If you are so pre-destined, then act according to the Guru's Teachings. ||1||Pause|| ਪੰਨਾ 44, ਸਤਰ 8 ਜਿਸ ਕਉ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚਰਨ ਗਹੇ ॥੨॥ Those who have such pre-ordained destiny hold tight to the Feet of the True Guru. ||2|| We are only upto panna 44. So how you say predestination has no stance in sikhi. Sikhi is wholly about predestination. Nobody is damned or preferred in Lord's eyes. Me or nobody has any idea how He works. How can we define sin or good deed? You could be born in one of hannibal tribes in South America in 18th century and eating humans alongwith your tribemates. You could be born in muslim family and think drinking alcohol is big sin but killing infidels is not. Some people would not mind flying planes into buildings and would consider it an act worthy of so-called heaven. How you define pain and enjoyment? If somebody is born blind, does he realize pain of not having eyesight? A journey in economy class for a billionaire would be more painful than ride on a scooter for slum dweller.

so you think you have a choice/free will?

Here are some points I am fully convinced of. 1. In the universe, every action must have a reaction. What we do, we must have to face the consequences. 2. Everything is pre-destined. With His hukam, we cry, we laugh, we do bad things, we do good deeds, we enjoy, we suffer. With His hukam, anybody can be born with some bad qualities and with His hukam, he can behave saintly. 3. Should we fear for our future? I don't think so. But still whatever we do, must get it back. Do we control our actions? I don't think so. 4. Gurbani has mentioned reincarnation so many times. Reincarnation seem to answer all the questions about 'what we sow we reap'. Now question is how does this happen? I am just curious. Is it just possible that no soul exists. When our bodies are burnt or buried in earth, it is back to ashes. Maybe same matter will start a new life somehow. But only way to Lord is only when we are in human form as only humans are able to reach final stage of enlightenment. Just thoughts!

and yes, it has made me a hard determinist.

ਬੁਰਾ ਭਲਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸ ਨੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੀਅ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Tell me, who should I call good or bad, since all beings are Yours? ||1||Pause|| Panna 383

Isn't this Pashaura Singh same guy who was called on Akal Takhat for punishment?

If a person becomes Vaheguru as Advait Vedant claims, then do our Brahmgianis(including Gurus) merge and become one with Vaheguru and therefor no longer exist? but Waheguru exists everywhere and at every fraction of time. So when Brahmgianis merge with Lord, they are part of Him and their hondh is always there with Lord. Their hondh is more than us mortals.

Can a jeev become god of the universe? Does the jeev mirror god in his own body therefore becoming a likeness of god? Does the jeev become god in his own body and therefore become one with god? But there is only one God and name of the city mentioned is stage of enlightenment. If a jeev reach that stage even in jeev's body, it becomes one with Almighty God. As last line in followed shabad says,"Nanak's God is pervading and permeating everywhere; wherever he looks, He is there." ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਹੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਊ ਬੂਝਨਹਾਰੋ ਜਾਨੈ ਕਵਨੁ ਭਤਾ ॥ ਸਿਵ ਬਿਰੰਚਿ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਮੋਨਿ ਜਨ ਗਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾਹਿ ਗਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਅਗਮ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਕਥਾ ॥ ਸੁਨੀਐ ਅਵਰ ਅਵਰ ਬਿਧਿ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਬਕਨ ਕਥਨ ਰਹਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਭਗਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਤਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਪੇਖਿਓ ਜਤ੍ਰ ਕਤਾ ॥੨॥੨॥੧੧॥ Panna 498

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Yes, he has been refered for indirectly atleast one more time I know. Shaheediyan, I have a question? Why in over 1400 hundred of pannas of SGGS we never hear name Mohamad even once (while addressing muslims, he has been refered indirectly more than one time though)? SGGS contains bani from many muslims. Why not any writing of Mohamad? Does that mean Gurus never thought Koran's writings are as per Gurmat? I don't know the answer. Share your thoughts with me.

I gave you instances from SGGS, where it speaks to yogis, vaishnavs, pundits and muslims. This is one of those instances. SGGS is telling muslims to stay muslims and emphasizes upon accepting His Hukam. SGGS speaks to various sects and everytime it states that His Hukam and Naam should be above rituals. That makes SGGS universal and appealing to every human irrespective of ethnity or religion. Still there is no mention of 'Mohamad'. Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Yes i did say Satgur Dasam Granth, Koi bimaari? Gurmukho, Thank you for wishing me well. I wish you good health.

Yes, things need to be seen in context to understand full meaning. But some people starts using this excuse for every misdeed of their prophets. What I understood from Gurbani is rituals should never get preference over Lord's naam. Lot of sangat go to Gurudwara, take off shoes, wash hands, look around if any of friend/relatives is there, bow in front of SGGS, go to langar, chat with somebody and then come back home. Do they hear any word from SGGS? If they miss Shabad Guru, then we are just lost in rituals. I may be wrong and I wish I am wrong. Bhul chuk Maaf.

Gurujit telling Vashnave how to be real vashnav (pg 272) ਬੈਸਨੋ ਸੋ ਜਿਸੁ ਊਪਰਿ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਭਿੰਨ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਿਹਕਰਮ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਕਾ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਧਰਮ ॥ ਕਾਹੂ ਫਲ ਕੀ ਇਛਾ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਛੈ ॥ ਕੇਵਲ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਰਾਚੈ ॥ ਮਨ ਤਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥ ਸਭ ਊਪਰਿ ਹੋਵਤ ਕਿਰਪਾਲ ॥ ਆਪਿ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਓਹੁ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥ Guruji telling muslims how to be real muslim. (pg 141) ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥ ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ Guruji telling Pandit how to be real Pandit.(pg 274) ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਰਬੋਧੈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਧੈ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਾਰੁ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵੈ ॥ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕੈ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਵੈ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਬਸਾਵੈ ॥ ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਮੂਲ ॥ ਸੂਖਮ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਅਸਥੂਲੁ ॥ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਅਦੇਸੁ ॥੪॥ Guruji telling Yogis how to be real Yogi (Pg 908) ਸਰਮੈ ਦੀਆ ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਕੰਨੀ ਪਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਖਿੰਥਾ ਕਰਿ ਤੂ ਦਇਆ ॥ ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਣੁ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ਲਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਤੀਨਿ ਭਵਣ ਜਿਣਿ ਲਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਐਸੀ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਵਜਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਵਾਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਰਹੈ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਪਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਝੋਲੀ ਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਭੁਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਧਿਆਨ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਸਿੰਙੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਵਜਾਈ ॥੨॥ ਮਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਕਲਪਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਚੜਹਿ ਜੋਗੀ ਤਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥ ਇਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਾ ਸਚੁ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਇਤੁ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ਨ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥ ਭਉ ਭਾਉ ਦੁਇ ਪਤ ਲਾਇ ਜੋਗੀ ਇਹੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡੀ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਤਾ ਤੰਤੀ ਵਾਜੈ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਖੰਡੀ ॥੫॥ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝੈ ਸੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹੀਐ ਏਕਸ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ॥ਸਹਸਾ ਤੂਟੈ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਏ ॥੬॥

No. She was not a sikh, but she was only born in a sikh background family. A sikh will never leave path shown by Gurus for any religion or cult with false promises for heaven or blackmailing threats of hell. It is possible sombeody is born in sikh family but propaganda, false information or peer pressure can make lot of weak people make wrong decisions. Bhul Chuk Maaf

some points. 1. maybe she wanted to hurt parents and she did succeed. 2. she is getting so much attention and respect from muslims, the day showed interst in islam. No way, she would never want it to stop. 3. Here is a somebody (we can't see her face) wrapped in black clothes, talking about leaving sikhi, unpopularity of islam in sikh households, greatness of islam. It is one of many tricks to convey message to other non-muslims that all the talk against islam is a lie and everybody should follow this girl's path. Whenever they show a conversion video in their effort to prove superiority of islam, it only widens the gap between muslims and non-muslims. Islam has nothing which other religions dont have. It is only their aggressivenss for new recruits which is bringing some new converts.

laalsingh bach ke reh sin is heavy in your palla with these blasphemous remarks! BTW Satguru Gobind Singh Ji makes many references to the Respected PROPHET Muhhamad, in Satgur Dasam Granth Sahib. And if you question Satguru Dasam Granth then a question mark will be blatantly seen over your remarks and scholarly authenticity. From now onward am not posting anything negative about any figure respected by other communities. If moderators find it insulting in previous posts, they can remove it. I was just responding to some statements about sufis' bani in SGGS. I think SGGS again shows us way here, "Dont say anything about controversial figures which are respected by other communities." Still I could not find any refrence about Mohamad in Dasam Granth. Are you talking about Mahadin in Bachitar Natak? Or somewhere else? As a sikh we should be aware what our masters said about other religous figures. Please let me know. Another thing, did you say [highlight=red:22d5d1fb1e]Satgur[/highlight:22d5d1fb1e] Dasam Granth? Bhul Chuk Maaf

Niranjana said in bold letters Please could you show where Krishna "raped" anyone and what you understand by the term "Leela"? Do you really want me post this erotic story? I will just give hint that as krishna has to make night 6 months long to stay long with that lady. There is punjabi saying ,"hum karen to paap,krishan kare to leela". Meaning when Krishna do, it is called his leela (game), but if we do it, it is called sin (it is said sarcastically). What is wrong with 'contexts'? Your posts do not appear to make your issue with taking things into context clear? There is nothing wrong about contexts. But it is muslim scholars' biggest excuse for defending quran and everything of questionable nature done by Mohamad. You don't hear word 'context' with Buddha and Jesus's life histories that much. Also, what is the problem with Guru Gobind Singh, Guru Har Rai and Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee have more than one wife? Nobody here said we have any problem with Gurujis having more than one wife. What I am saying as a sikh, Guru sahib gave us permission to question. I mentioned Samadh sakhi not for islam but just to prove point that Guruji wanted sikhs to question, not become a zombie like some other religions. Bhul chuk maaf.

amardeep said in bold yeah and so what if they give importance to the body, while we give importance to the soul? I already posted salok from asa di var telling why they are wrong in hoping bodies will gather on judgement day? We give importance to banis while they give importance to namaz.. is there anything wrong in that? When did I say praying to Lord is wrong? Or maybe Guru Maharaj is esotericin the exoteric aspects of Islam in order to help them grow spiritually? Maybe maharaj is helping them move to the second level of religion? Sikhism is not a sect of any other religion. is there room for "Guru Gobind Singh being the last human Guru then" ? if so, then why is there no room for Muhamad as the last messenger of the abrahamic line of prophets? Guru Gobind Singh was tenth master and he gave gurgadi to SGGS. How can we compare mohamad to tenth master? Do you think the Gurus regarded Islam as a false religion? As per my little knowledge they never said islam is true or false religion literally. But also there is no mention of many other religions and cults. So why we should accept all of them as true? Only mention of islam in SGGS is the condemnation of islamic practices. do you belive Muhammad was a prophet of God? I don't believe Mohamad was a prophet. There is not mention of Mohamad in SGGS. If SGGS doesn't say anything about Mohamad, why we should believe him as a prophet. Do you belive in the Quran as a book from God? if yes, do you belive the present form of the Quran is the one sent down from God, or do you belive that it has been alterede and rewritten throughout history.. Lord does't have to send messages through flying angels. ਸਮਝੈ ਸੂਝੈ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਅੰਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ॥ If one understands, realizes and comprehends what he reads and studies, in the end he shall realize that the True Lord dwells deep within his nucleus. If you or muslims believe quran as last and complete message from Him, let them.I don't. That doesn't mean I disrespect muslims friends. Some of them I have seen are living a life even more pious than Mohamad. Bhul Chuk Maaf Laal singh

Reason for asking my question was for new sikhs. For new sikhs going for 5Ks right away will be overwhelming, particularly who is used to western life style. Before going for khalsa, should not he be sikh (learner) first and then khalsa (when he is ready)?