Ragmaala

Panth is in chardikala and ever flourishing. Focus on your individual self first. Panth is taken care of Guru Nanak Sahib Himself. Abichal Neev Dhari Guru Nanak Nit Nit Chadae Savai ....The foundation has been laid down by Guru Nanak Sahib and it is ever flourishing. You created this thread into 'they vs us', and I responded accordingly. You can do whatever you like personally, but don't feel threatened if you come across people who differ from your ideas.

Exactly, I want it to look nice and clean, so people are not lost in your essays of agitated thoughts.

Look up bibek buddhi.

That's how I work. You can call me whatever you want. I don't need a certification of approval from you .

Good. Keep Projecting.

yes. its enough for me. @paapiman this will be good for you to find out more about. Pujari from Vrindavan and Sukhnidhan Maryada at Hazur Sahib.

From your writing style and content, I can sense agitation, jumpiness, flight of ideas, tangential thoughts, and racing thoughts. One of the criteria for Bipolar Disorder. Scientific and Clinical Research indicates correlation between cannabis use and manic episodes. Here is a link, you are welcome to explore more on your own Cannabis use and mania symptoms: a systematic review and meta-analysis Conclusions: Our findings whilst tentative, suggest that cannabis use may worsen the occurrence of manic symptoms in those diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and may also act as a causal risk factor in the incidence of manic symptoms. This underscores the importance of discouraging cannabis use among youth and those with bipolar disorder to help prevent chronic psychiatric morbidity. More high quality prospective studies are required to fully elucidate how cannabis use may contribute to the development of mania over time. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25285897/

@dalsingh101 veer ji, I understand where you are coming from. It's good to have different perspectives, and opinions on a plate, and then one can use their bibek buddhi to decide what's good for them, and what works for the individual. But some people are so identified with the topic of Sukha, that if you say anything against it, they feel its a threat to their identity, jump into survival mode, and lose all rationality.

I don't need to look it up, I have personally experienced and been involved in treatment of patients with various psychiatric problems. And I am well versed with the side effects of psychiatric medications, not a fan of it. Mental illness is unfortunate.

You are no one to dismiss me, and I choose what I need to respond to and what not to.

As I clearly mentioned, these are not my words, but I have quoted the words of Amir Bhandar Tika from Bhai Mani Singh Ji Taksal. I have provided the page number.

Good for you man , carry on. Peace out

It’s obvious you are very involved and passionate about this topic, and understandably so.

@GurjantGnostic I don’t have to prove myself or back myself up or defend myself, I have quoted the words of scholars and mahapurush. Its not for you but for the sangat who will come here, they can read and decide themselves what they choose to do. I don’t have to reply or respond to your every sentence. Your writing style clearly indicates hyper response and manic state of mind. Take it easy on sukha. You can call me names and insult me. Please go ahead. Thanks.

Forget about what I think or what I say. I have no authority or say. I don't have to prove anything to anyone, for I am nothing. Let's go back to basics. I will just place the views of taksal from Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Amir Bhandar Tika. Sangat can read it, and make their own decision. So if someone comes on this forum, they have the resource available to decide for themselves. And if someone can be kind enough to translate into English for non-gurmukhi readers or speakers. Reference: Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bhagat Kabir Ji, Ang 1377, Amir Bhandar Tika Page 327 These are not my views, but the view of Great Scholar and Brahmgyani Sant Amir Singh Ji and Giani Kirpal Singh Ji, from the Bhai Mani Singh Ji Samparda. I will translate few points in quotes, correct the translation if its wrong. "In the Gurbani above, Bhang is Sukha, meat of fish, chicken, dried tobacco leaves used by Maharashtrians, and also refers to Maya that creates obstacles in Bhagti... those who use these, all their sadhanas are worthless... After the war of Emnabaad , Babar presented/offered 7 fists of Bhang to Guru Nanak Dev ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji replied we dont need this bhang, we are already drinking the internal bhang, the love of Parmatma, the Naam Khumari. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 721 .. ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੨ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਭਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਂਗ ਖਲੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ ਮੈ ਦੇਵਾਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਅਤੀਤੁ ॥ ਕਰ ਕਾਸਾ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਭੂਖ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਉ ਨੀਤਾ ਨੀਤ ॥੧॥ ਤਉ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਕਰਉ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਤੁ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੇਸਰਿ ਕੁਸਮ ਮਿਰਗਮੈ ਹਰਣਾ ਸਰਬ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਣਾ ॥ ਚੰਦਨ ਭਗਤਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਇਨੇਹੀ ਸਰਬੇ ਪਰਮਲੁ ਕਰਣਾ ॥੨॥ ਘਿਅ ਪਟ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਭਗਤੁ ਵਰਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵੇ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਦਰਿ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥ Some Manmukhs to hide their own shortcomings , use the following pankti to say that Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have asked bowl of bhang from Parmatma. Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have not taken anything with partakh nasha. In Hikayatan, Guru Gobind Singh ji have talked about 'Sabaz Rang Prem'... Some people say that Guru Sahib used Bhang and Afeem. This is impossible and against Gurmat. Guru ji instructed Khalsa regarding alcohol and bhang: Regarding Hazur Sahib Sukhnidhan Maryada, it was started by a pujari who came from Vrindavan, he would drink bhang himself and started doing bhog of Sukhnidhan, and that's how the maryada got established. Regarding Afeem, Giani Gian Singh used to take afim, and he wrote that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj used to take afim. " After reading the above, Sangat can make their own decision and choose for themselves. Its very clear. The above are views of great taksal of Bhai Mani Singh Ji Shaheed. These are not mine. Now Gurjantgnostic will say that Bhai Mani Singh Ji were also brain-washed by gore, imperial, white etc etc. what a joke Summary: Our Current Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/ Bhagat Kabir Ji talks against Bhang, although Bhang can also mean other things as mentioned above. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji refused bhang when offered by Babar In Emnabad Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed his Khalsa you can translate it as you wish Sukhnidhan Maryada at Hazur Sahib was started by a Pujari who came from Vrindavan, and was fond of drinking bhang himself, and started doing bhog of it. And it got normalized afterwards. Giani Gian Singh was a opium userm and he portrayed Guru Sahib as such. @dalsingh101 if I made any mistakes in translating the original text, please feel free to correct it. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Forget about what I think or what I say. I have no authority or say. I don't have to prove anything to anyone, for I am nothing. Let's go back to basics. I will just place the views of taksal from Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Amir Bhandar Tika. Sangat can read it, and make their own decision. So if someone comes on this forum, they have the resource available to decide for themselves. And if someone can be kind enough to translate into English for non-gurmukhi readers or speakers. Reference: Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bhagat Kabir Ji, Ang 1377, Amir Bhandar Tika Page 327 These are not my views, but the view of Great Scholar and Brahmgyani Sant Amir Singh Ji and Giani Kirpal Singh Ji, from the Bhai Mani Singh Ji Samparda. I will translate few points in quotes, correct the translation if its wrong. "In the Gurbani above, Bhang is Sukha, meat of fish, chicken, dried tobacco leaves used by Maharashtrians, and also refers to Maya that creates obstacles in Bhagti... those who use these, all their sadhanas are worthless... After the war of Emnabaad , Babar presented/offered 7 fists of Bhang to Guru Nanak Dev ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji replied we dont need this bhang, we are already drinking the internal bhang, the love of Parmatma, the Naam Khumari. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 721 .. ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੨ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਭਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਂਗ ਖਲੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ ਮੈ ਦੇਵਾਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਅਤੀਤੁ ॥ ਕਰ ਕਾਸਾ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਭੂਖ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਉ ਨੀਤਾ ਨੀਤ ॥੧॥ ਤਉ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਕਰਉ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਤੁ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੇਸਰਿ ਕੁਸਮ ਮਿਰਗਮੈ ਹਰਣਾ ਸਰਬ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਣਾ ॥ ਚੰਦਨ ਭਗਤਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਇਨੇਹੀ ਸਰਬੇ ਪਰਮਲੁ ਕਰਣਾ ॥੨॥ ਘਿਅ ਪਟ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਭਗਤੁ ਵਰਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵੇ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਦਰਿ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥ Some Manmukhs to hide their own shortcomings , use the following pankti to say that Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have asked bowl of bhang from Parmatma. Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have not taken anything with partakh nasha. In Hikayatan, Guru Gobind Singh ji have talked about 'Sabaz Rang Prem'... Some people say that Guru Sahib used Bhang and Afeem. This is impossible and against Gurmat. Guru ji instructed Khalsa regarding alcohol and bhang: Regarding Hazur Sahib Sukhnidhan Maryada, it was started by a pujari who came from Vrindavan, he would drink bhang himself and started doing bhog of Sukhnidhan, and that's how the maryada got established. Regarding Afeem, Giani Gian Singh used to take afim, and he wrote that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj used to take afim. " After reading the above, Sangat can make their own decision and choose for themselves. Its very clear. The above are views of great taksal of Bhai Mani Singh Ji Shaheed. These are not mine. Now Gurjantgnostic will say that Bhai Mani Singh Ji were also brain-washed by gore, imperial, white etc etc. what a joke Summary: Our Current Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/ Bhagat Kabir Ji talks against Bhang, although Bhang can also mean other things as mentioned above. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji refused bhang when offered by Babar In Emnabad Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed his Khalsa you can translate it as you wish Sukhnidhan Maryada at Hazur Sahib was started by a Pujari who came from Vrindavan, and was fond of drinking bhang himself, and started doing bhog of it. And it got normalized afterwards. Giani Gian Singh was a opium userm and he portrayed Guru Sahib as such. @dalsingh101 if I made any mistakes in translating the original text, please feel free to correct it.

Anyways, ‘waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh’ on this topic from me. I believe i have put forwards my points, and my reasoning.

That’s fair , when used as a medicine. Thc oil is used to help with concussion symptoms My only issue is taking sukha, just for fun, without any medical indications. I am not talking about Sukhnidhan which has no nasha and is actually a nutritious drink. but anything for the purpose of making you high, without an absolute necessity,imo is not Gurmat.

My Experiences as a kid , seeing people abusing it, villagers, fake nihangs doing beadbi of bana, people abusing it on shivratri melas, eating bhang pkaode, developing diarrhea and headaches etc. Understanding of Gurmat being against any Nasha, ranging from sukha, alcohol, afem, certain diets, wealth and power. reading jivans of great mahapurush from various sampardas such as Nanaksar, Taksal, Rara Sahib, Bidhi Chand, etc and them not promoting any use of Sukha. And the jivan of most recent Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh Ji , how he lived his life and his views on these topics. All the above form my ideas, and understanding. The whites or imperial culture has no effect on me. I dont know what’s reefer madness. I am not fan of modern pharmaceuticals or anti depressants. They are temporary fix only. And I am aware of all their side effects and their vicious cycle.

Yes. Anything that makes your mind unstable, creates vikaar, and develops your dependency upon it is a form of Nasha. In essence, my point is we have to exercise greater caution with things that have a higher potential of abuse, some greater than others. They might have been used as medicine in past, but if they are available in abundance and unregulated, people can use past examples to normalize their use and knowing the human mind , start abusing it.

If you use Sukha as a medicine, in controlled form, to help someone get rid of their afeem, alcohol or some other addiction, that’s fair. Just don’t develop dependency on Sukha afterwards. Dependency on external means is not Gurmat imo. Methadone is used to help with heroin addiction and eventually come off it. Benzodiazepines are used to help with delirium tremens when people suddenly come off alcohol. But if someone develops dependency on methadone and bzds, thats defeating the original purpose. Our brain has cannaboid receptors. If you use external cannabis, you will develop tolerance and ultimate fry them out. The way to activate many unknown pleasure receptors in our brain is through Naam Rassa via Japa techniques. The effect will be everlasting without any side effects.

I have witnessed the maryada at Hazur Sahib. They give sukhnidhan prashad near the bunga downstairs. When we were near the godavri, we came across a hazuri singh. He definitely seemed high, red eyes etc. Not sure if it was nasha of sukha or naam khumari. Shardai when prepared properly is very nutritious and soothing for brain, and as I said no more than 5 leaves for maryada. But when there is no almonds, pepper, poppy seeds, rose, etc and just pure sukha. Thats Nasha . Like they have bhang on shivratri melas and people going high and crazy.

Anand Chamatkar. Read it a long time ago, don’t remember the exact page number.

I have seen People in Nihang Bana , getting high, swearing and abusing, lying around all day, doing beadbi of bana etc As a kid I have seen weed growing around in pind, villagers getting high on it , staying in poor conditions, not doing anything with their lives etc I have not seen anyone using sukha as a medicine so far, only a means of getting high and getting Nasha. And Gurmat is very straightforward on Nasha. It could be a Nasha of sukha, afeem, modern pharmaceutical, food, wealth or power. All Nasha is Anti Gurmat.

@GurjantGnostic i know you have done mushrooms in past, do you also smoke marijuana? I see you are very defensive and feel hurt. you have posted a lot, kind of reminds me of a manic episode. I will reply when I get time , waste my energy in putting my points across lol