Pheena

ok this kinda came to me yesterday.

we've essentially come to the conclusion that homosexuality in sikhi is not allowed, correct?

It depends on if the homosexuality is there when the child is born or if it developed after the child is born. Most Homosexuals feel that they have always felt this way. So if it is there with the child when he/she was born then all are the creation of God. it cannot be wrong, but just another leela of waheguru.

A Theory which i've thought of is that a man has so much desire for the female and day and night he thinks of nothing else but the female. Now you are reborn to fullfill your desires. God being the giver of all givers gave you a female body because of your desire for the female body. Now since the mind is still the same thru out your journey, that attraction to the female was so strong that it is still present in your mind. Being in a Female body being attracted to the Female are because of your previous attractions to the female in the previous lifetime.

Personally i feel taht enough money is being given to the Gurudwaras. That the money that you have at home in the golak infront of the guru, u should give to the poor. for instant soem program in your town, that helps the poor. Like a Homeless Shelter or something.

OH... my apologies.....sorry veer...

Interesting discussion. I agree with Lil Princess's comment about God being a presence. I was actually referring to the idea of God people have invented. I mean when a child is in the womb, does he bother about whether God exists, whether he is happy with him, or angry with him? Why do we as humans have to depend on this idea of God? Is it a projection of our fears? A saying comes to mind 'Humanity's first sin was faith, it's first virtue; doubt'.

The question is not who is god, but rather who are you? When you find yourself you will find God. Some people say you need to believe in something greater because you feel so helpless sometimes. To belive in something greater (god) is to feel relieved taht there is someone who is watching over us. That this world is not just randomly occuring phenomena. There is an Order in this world. That order of his Will.

I Personally believe in god because im want to know who I Am. To find out who i am....if i am a part of him as our GURU says, as the Vedas proclaim, as the many Sants and guru alive today talka bout. That I/we are no other than waheguru, all that is needes is the realization which is obtained by teh Grace of the Guru. I do not fear God, because whatever he does, he has a purpose behind him. To fear god is to think that he will punish me for comitting a sin. But it is not he who punishes it is I myself who has committed a sin, so it is I who will Reap the fruit of the seed I have sown. I do not bring god in this. He created a Law of Cause and Effect and left the Karma up to us.

I probably sound like an atheist saying all this, I just wonder why we fear God, have you known anyone who has no fear of God? Only pure love? When we are young, our parents say don't do this, God will be angry with you. Or this is not the way to please Vaheguru. Why do we have this need to please God? God doesn't need praising surely, Guru Ji in Japuji says; Vada na hovey ghaat na jaye, juga jugantar khahi khahe'.

Fear of god Stops you of doing sins. To have Fear of our Parents, the child will think twice before doing something he isn't suppose to do. That fear helps you control your mind. Your mind needs this fear of the law so Society will not become a an out of control organization. That fear of the law is needed. It is needed because your mind is not able to hold back its desires and wants. That fear is nesecessary. But Guru ji also said, Waheguru is the Forgiver of all Forgivers.

Were the Guru's Gods? Why do people find it hard to accept that they were God if they had the qualities of God. It's because they have this idea of God being a ruler, a separate entity, so far away from us, powerful, unattainable. When in fact God is nothing but a presence, a whole.

God exists where you (ego) does not exist. Good points.

yup it does happen, I was in india last year and went to a baba ji...my mother wanted to go so she took me with her. We went there 2wice, he read a Hukamnama and it was the same exact hukamnama. Now as for it being a Conincidence it was rather questinoing because it was like he had it memorized. Rather than him reading. So i dunno. It just didn't feel like a coincedence.

lalleshwari,

you mentioned something that is not "sikh".....don't you know, spirituality doesn't exist outside sikhi and its rehit! why quote from the second best???

sikhi respects every religion, but being a sikh you "HAVE TO" believe sikhi is the ONLY WAY

:roll:

You just contradicted yourself. You speak of Sikhi accepting all religion, but you say Sikhi is the ONly way. That is like placing this blanket on truth. there is no such thing as Second Best. All are equal in their own way. So what if she quoted from a muslim fakeer. The truth is not copyrighted by anyone.

its not namdev its dhanna bhagat

Woops, you are right......sorry veer/behan ji

not really, lolll i was just wondering if someone here has read it. I thought i was one of the most wonderfull Translation of Japji Sahib done to date.

ok i am not attacking you so don't tell me to slow down, am i not intitled to my own opinion?? well anyways what do you say to the people out there who don't beleive in "god", do you just say that's ok, god made you even though you don't know it, isn't that a little ignorant?

well you said it is bugging you tht people refer to god as a he/she. So i felt you were being annoyed, so i simply told u to slow down. it wasn't inteded to offend you.

ummmm i don't see your point. Its like someone having Amnesia. To tell them that these are your parents becuase you know they are. But the person who has Amnesia has no recolection of them being their parents, how is that ignorent. Everyone has Amnesia of God. Those who are Awakended/Enlightened have every right to say what they have Experience.

maybe you should except other views, and may i add whats wrong with god as being an precence??? And i did not directly target the question just to Pheena.... so no hard feelings!!

Noting is wrong with god being a Precense, but to have a Relationship with that presence makes you more involved and creates a bond. How do u make a bond with a Presence. You are not wrong by thinking god is a Presence, but To take it further craete a relationship.

Guru Nanak dev ji said, You are my mother, father, brother, Friend. A relationship is much more influcential on the mind than just thinking of god as a presence. He is Present everywhere.

Well i never said "MAN" created god, i said humans invented a word for god and thats that precense, and why can't each individual person have their connection to that precence (aka God) so technically there are over a billion million "gods" but its actually just one!!! (hint the saying, OH MY GOD!!) why can't "god" be for me??

i think god didn't create humans and i think humans created god

Human is man. LIke JJJ said, you didn't' say humans invented the word God.

You can have a connection, when did i say you couldn't. Well you said humans invented God. so every human can invent its own god...therfore there is no limit to the imagination of the mind, hence 6 billion gods.

Perhaps you need to define what you mean when you say god. are you referring to the Devine Being or just the Word invented by humans??

If you are talking about simply the word god, then you needed to be more specific in your posts, that makes this whole reply pointless.

I am not selfish, but really god is a precence and everyone can feel it, and he is NOT PERSONIFIED! How would you know if i die?? what if i instead moved to the frouth dimension and become a highly evolved alien?? NO one knows whats after death, so who is to say what is going to happen to "god" and my relation to this presence? you can't assume one thing over the other...

well you are exactly right, no one knows what happens after death, but thru the knowledge of Holy texts written by Gurus/ Avatars we have a pretty good idea. You are just letting your imagination run wild, I can even say I am not human, that I are from another planet. I am here to study humans. You see if you start to think like that there is no end to the Imagination of the mind, of the Fantasies and other dimensions it will create. You cannot Find the Gyaan that Guru Nanak held thru the mind. You have to go Beyond the mind, into Nothiness. You are still trapped in the mind.

well without oxygen my body cannot function, i have no combustion, therefore i cannot live, but thats just in my biological state, why can a plant exist in no oxygen, or even bacteria?? They are living things too! So technically i don't need air, i need to live, to live i have no purpose, and there is no reason for my purpose, may i add that there are more questions than answers in this world... ANd i possibly could exist without my parents... why can't i be NOT human, its selfish and ignorant to say that "god" is what everything on earth believes.. One should except all religion, all cultures, all things, all views equally.... so i accept your opinion and your thoughts, i however dont' agree with them, and sorry you can't change my mind...

Well you created God not plants. You in True Self the Aatma do not need anything, because you are the Purest of the Pure. But we are not talking about the soul. We are discussing what you said that you created god. I Think you need to slow down your thinking, you are going completely off the topic here.

Let me gather everything here.

You said. You(humans) created God not the other way around.

So if he was your creation. The why aren't you incarge of your life. Why do things happen to you without your permission. Why are you not the Master of your life. Can you control your death?? Did you ask to be born? Can you stop the bad things from happening in your life??

If you are in Control, then don't let this body get old. There is another force at work which is running this world and you. That force is not you.

You did not create God. the mind created the word God, The mind cannot capture the true essence of God. God is beyond the mind and time. The word God cannot give you the full description of God. It is still a word. Anything Created can be destroyed. The word God created by the mind of man is nothing more than a word...its points to what allah is. It cannot tell you "WHAT" god is. It triggers this rememberence of his vitues his presence.

EDIT:

One more thing, you said i haven't changed your mind. Understand this...no one can change your mind until you are ready to accept change. Sometimes such Great Souls carry such strenght in their words that they change your views without you realizeing what just happened.

actually that is the story of Naamdev

why can't god be a Presence??? Why does GOD have to be always refered to as a "he"???? this is bugging me sooooooo much!! anywayz i think god didn't create humans and i think humans created god... god to me is a Presence not a "personified" existance however. and we as humans created god to talk about the Presence... this presence is what i think god is, and i think people are wrong to personify god as a personnnnnnnnnnnn so what u think??

one

slow down sis,

It is only the limitations of the Language that you have to say either a he or she. I could've refereed to god as IT. Would that made u feel better.

How can humans create god????? If Man created god, then there are 6 billion gods, because everyone has created god in their mind.

thats my opinion, when you think about it, how do we know for sure??

Because when you don't exist he still exists. Its like saying when you die the world will die as well. You see people die, but the world still lives on. You will die but god will remain. If he was your creations, without you he could not exist. It is exactly the opposite, You are his Creation, without him you cannot exist. Without Nature you cannot exist. Without the Air/Oxygen you cannot exist. It is because of these things that you came into existance. he is the every breath you take, without that breath of air you cannot survive, so god to you can be Air. You need Air, not the other way around.

Could you have come into exist without your parents?? A god which is the creations of the mind is not God and cannot be God.

has ne one heard of this book, which was translated into punjabi and then English. I believe it was first written in Hindi. It is the Translation of Japji Sahib by Rajneesh ( Osho ).

A child is born because a seed was planted. The child exist because of a seed. God created you so you exist. You did not create God. To say you created god, is to assume he is a Figment of your imagination. you Imagined god so he exists. You are still stuck in your mind. God is beyond the Captivities of the Mind.

^ LOLL

I wonder how long he would have live without smoking???

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