Pheena

this should be good...

thanks for the link as always...

i want to know accroding to Gurbani and Sikhi what is subconscious mind .? Is it WAHEGURU ITSELF

God is beyond the Mind's 3 layers and its 4 Antish karans as mentioned by Neo.

Bane is right on with the Subconsciousness being the base of our desires.

"'The substance of a dream is held in materialization by the subconscious thought of the dreamer. When that cohesive thought is withdrawn in wakefulness, the dream and its elements dissolve. A man closes his eyes and erects a dream-creation which, on awakening, he effortlessly dematerializes. He follows the divine archetypal pattern. Similarly, when he awakens in cosmic consciousness, he will effortlessly dematerialize the illusions of the cosmic dream"

I take refuge in the Buddha

I take refuge in the Dharma

I take refufe in the Sangha

Mehtab has confused the Pali "Dhamma" with the Sanskrit "Dharma'. The three vows as described here are in Sanskrit. ,But Dhamma and Dharma are the same thing.

so then what does it mean to take refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha?? Please do share more..

Khalistan will not just be the few Zilas we have left. For it to be called Khalistan it will have to include atleast Haryana and Himachal Pardesh.

Let us be realistic now and obviously india will not just hand that over when asked to.

I'm sure we'll fight india for it. Seriusly though I think we have a better chance winning it in a good kabaddi match then in actual arsenal confrontation. Not due to the lack of heart, but lack of man power and more so lack of Unity. Also with the lack of support from other world nations who do recoganize this struggle as just.

nice!! thanks for expanding on that...translation??

You cannot change the name and expect the core of the state to change. The corruption will not leave because of a name change. Sure you can change the name of the State, what then??

Change must occur from within starting from the people who live there and govern the state, not A. Soni living in London, UK.

follow ur dil...and stay niara...once start acting like everyone else there is no difference....mearly another face in the crowd...plus think of were u wanna be in a couple of years...college/uni etc...and then think wa is sikhi to u...relax enjoy mahraajs creation.

oh n on the self concious bit, well i got a 17yr old younger sis....n yup its nothing different....

but like i said...keep ur self niara...nothing becomes of those who are mearly a statistic.

akaaaaaaal

solid advice.

Society expects you to conform to its standards. The mind is very influential especially from our peers. Those that fall into the trap often get lost and become just another face like the veer above said. Either you conform to its standards or you stand within society and create your own standards. It is YOUR life, not theirs. Live your life according to how you wish to live it, not by how Society wants you to become.

People will judge you, they will speak ill of you, they will make fun of you. God too has given then a tounge and a mind so they are free to speak, think what they wish. It is how you react to their speech that matter. The only control you have is of your actions, take them with awareness and everything else will fall into place.

Neo was it, "Budham Sharnma Gatshaamee"

Vahiguroo? you do realize that Buddhism is an atheistic religion... so it is anything but a "dharamsala of Vehiguroo".

What is the state of Nirvana implying?

If one does not speak of God, does that mean they lack the realization of God? If one does not point a finger and say here is your God? Does that mean they don't know where God is?

Does Silence equate to not knowing?

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/feb99...16109.Ns.r.html

Thanks for your intriguing question. Unfortunately, there has not been a

lot of research in this area, but I have summarized what I have been able

to find for you.

The following quote is from Cecil Adams, "The dreams of the congenitally

blind contain no visual elements and consist predominantly of sound plus

smell, touch, and the sense of movement. Plotwise they tend to be reality-

based-e.g., a reprise of the events of the day--with less of the fantasy

you find in the dreams of sighted people. There's also more

conversation...Helen Keller, who became blind at the age of 19 months,

claimed to have "visions of ineffable beauty," which mostly involved things

like pearls and whatnot". From More of the Straight Dope, Cecil Adams,

Ballantine Books, 1988.

One of my colleagues sent me the following response which is consistent

with what Cecil Adams reports: I have a friend who's blind from birth.

She said her dreams encompass the same sensory sensations she

experiences when awake - sound, a sensation of touch and sometimes taste.

She has no experience of anything we'd consider "sight" or color -in her

dream or awake state.

I also asked one of my blind students about your question. Although she

lost her sight as a young child, she also reports that her dreams involve

the sense organs such as sounds, smell, touch and taste, but not vision.

Although his research is somewhat dated, the person who has published the

most information in this area is Robert H. Blank. I have listed some of

this publications below and I would suggest that you read these. A more

recent source of information on this topic is found here: Qualitative

aspects of sleep mentation. By Weinstein, Lissa N.; Schwartz, David G.;

Arkin, Arthur M. Ellman, Steven James(Ed); Antrobus, John S.(Ed); et al.

The mind in sleep: Psychology and psychophysiology (2nd ed.). (pp. 172-

213).New York, NY, USA: John Wiley & Sons (1991) xv, 588 pp.

I hope this information helps you. Thanks again for this fascinating

question.

References:

Reflections on the special senses in relation to the development of affect

with special emphasis on blindness. By Robert H. Blank. Journal of the

American Psychoanalytic Association, 1975, Vol 23(1), 32-50.

McCartney's thesis on dreams. Robert H. Blank. New Outlook for the Blind,

1958, 52, 175-176.

Dreams of the blind. Robert H. Blank. Psychoanalytic Quarterly, 1958,

27, 158-174

Answer from somebody who has been blind since she was fairly young:

" Yes, blind people do dream. What they see in their dreams depends on how much they could ever see. If someone has been totally blind since birth, they only have auditory dreams. If someone such as I, has had a measure of sight, then that person dreams with that measure of sight. I still dream as though I can see, colors included. For people I've met since, their faces are just blurs or how I imagine they look. To me, someone like my mother looks forever 30. "

Sangat ji

How might the dreams of a blind person be like?

DhanWaad

I suppose you want to know how the dreams are of someone who has been blind for life, not who became blind later in life.

that is a good question...i don't have a clue.

there is someone who posts on these forums that can do this at will. But he shall remain gupt as it is not my place to share it.

its just good to know that there exist such seeker who have experienced this state of being.

"What I say is not very meaningfull,

what I say is not significant:

what I am not saying, what I cannot say -- nobody can say -- only that is significant.

Listen to that which is not said.

Listen to the gaps in the intervals.

Read between the words and between the lines.

If you forget the words, nothing is lost;

but if you forget that which is between the words, much is lost."

OSHO

My definition of a Katha Vachik is take from a Jain Mantra which i'll post below. There is a difference between a Teacher(Katha Vachik) and

Master (True Saint). A Teacher simply conveys the message that he has heard, it is not yet his experience. He/she may convey this message with such fluency that it directly mimics the state of Anubhav. Such is a Katha Vachik, who convey the wisdom or experience, but yet still hasn't fully experienced what he is conveying.

A Master is who Conveys what he is Living, What he has directly experienced. This difference is very difficult to differentiate, hence we see listeners of the Katha Vachicks labeling them as Saints, because they convey such the message with such fluency that it hypnotises the listner. Now before one starts to assume that I am belitteling Katha Vachiks, that is certainly not the case as the interpetation of the mantra will express my feelings. But a difference exists.

I have heard people say that Sant Singh ji Maskeen was a Katha Vachik, but I don't consider him a Katha Vachik, to me he was a Anubhav Vachik. It is very easy to be a Katha Vachik...all you need is the ability to speak with passion and charismatic as you have stated above as a quality of a Katha Vachik. But When a True Master, or a True Saint speaks the atmosphere shifts like no other. Master Does not speak from the example of other, his/her words are enriched with his Anubhav and only those who are sensitive enough can pick up on it.

The Mantra is here: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...;highlight=jain

here is a cut of what i was speaking about:

The fourth: "Namo loye savva sahunam namo namo…" I touch the feet of the teachers." You know the subtle difference between a master and a teacher. The master has known, and imparts what he has known. The teacher has received from one who has known, and delivers it intact to the world, but he himself has not known.

The composers of this mantra are really beautiful; they even touch the feet of those who have not known themselves, but at least are carrying the message of the masters to the masses.

Excellent to hear, that someoen with such a powerful voice is aligning herself with a spiritual context.

I sent an email to United Sikhs in hopes that they can provide a greater support for these Kaurs who have been victimized by these so called Gianees. But I need their help answering few questions that they asked.

I have modified their questions so they are more direct to those specific individual.

_-- ---------------------------------------------------------_

If I may request some information from you, as this

information is not generally displayed in the posts:

1) Where are these specific Gurudwaras that these

incidents are occuring. If not, would you be able to

provide the provinces/states and countries that this

is occuring in?

2) Do you know of someone else who has been a victimized by the same Gianee at the same Gurudwara?

3) What have you done in response to this problem

aka. reporting to the police, telling parents, etc.

4) Have you ever met success with approaching

any people/organizations/committees which have

assisted in the situation?

Please Please it is now that you must step forward and Help make some change. We need your Help to stop this from happening again and again to our fellow sisters.

If you do not wish give the info here for everyone to see, then Please email me at Gurinderjit82@hotmail.com ( which I suggest you do )

If you know someone who has been victimized then please respond and email me the Answers above to the questions they have asked, so i can provide a more thorough response and they can have a better idea of what they must do from there.

Here are the emails in their entirety:

Sat Sri Akal

My beloved Gursikhs, I have an urgent request that requires direction and assistant and I hope you are able to provide it. I am not completely sure as to what this organization's exact purpose, but i hope you can point me in the right direction.

I’m a frequent visitor and poster (Pheena) on the SikhSangat.net discussion forum and over the last 3-4 months there have been increasingly number of posts that consist of a rather disturbing nature. In the links below, these Kaurs have brought up something which is a serious problem within the Sikh Community. They have been molested and/or harrased by their local Gianis. I'm not sure if that word should even be used to call them. I only bring this to your attention hoping that you have enough resources to tackle such sickening crimes that have been committed. All I hope for is that you are able to provide a channel for these young women where they can call for help and guidance from a Law standpoint and possibly how to go about the importance of standing against such crimes. If such a connection is already in place then by all means direct me towards it. Perhaps even a webpage on how to deal with such things. I by no means am trying to impose that you guys do all the work, but I am in need of direction. Whatever assistance I can offer I will.

In all of these posts these innocent girls have expressed similar fear of community backlash as these so called Gianis are very much respected in the communities.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=18499

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...8&hl=Gianis

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...2&hl=gianis

These are just the recent examples and I'm sure there exist further cases where the victim has not come forward. Some might consider this a non-issue as not very many open cases exist. But I cannot help but think that it is the Indian mentality of brushing aside such heinous crimes for the sake of disrespect brought to the family from those who blindly follow such sick individuals. I see this something that must be brought forward to the whole Sikh Community.

If for some reason you are unable to provide some assistance then please I am open to any kind of suggestion as to where to start and who to contact.

Eagerly awaiting your reply.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh.

Gurinderjit Singh

THEIR RESPONSE

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sorry for the delayed response Gurinderjit Singh

Sahib. My name is Manvinder Singh and I am a

representative of UNITED SIKHS.

If I may request some information from you, as this

information is not generally displayed in the posts:

1) If you know the specific Gurudwaras that these

incidents are occuring. If not, would you be able to

provide the provinces/states and countries that this

is occuring in?

2) Are the majority of these problems centered in a

certain Gurudwara or Gurudwaras, or is the problem

being reported in a broad geography.

3) What has been done in response to the problems

aka. reporting to the police, telling parents, etc.

4) Have the Kaurs ever met success with approaching

any people/organizations/committees which have

assisted in the situation?

In the meanwhile, I will try to see what resources

exist within the community to deal with this

intolerable issue.

Manvinder Singh

UNITED SIKHS

wjkk wjkf

If one realizes that the ultimate happinees is with Waheguru but inside his heart that 'hunger', that 'Tapash' has not appeared when one can actually say 'Bin Navay Mar Jayiae Mere Thakur', How can that fire, that deep pain arise in one's heart? What can one do?

--As I was typing my question I recieved the answer ... Whoever gave that realization will also give that 'fire'. But since I had already typed my question, I decided to submit it anyways...

Any input to it from Gurmukhs will be greatly appreciated.

Waheguru

that answer is more truthful then anything anyone can say here, you put a smile on my face when i read that.......just beautiful... 8)

A true fakir told me a nashani of a true saint is:

they r busy mediating and they live in bhoras.. they wont judge you by how much money u have. They wont have interest in getting money etc.... they need love.

secondly their breath will smell of flowers... (no bad smell)

interesting.

living in Bhoras? Certainly not all, Guru Nanak dev ji never lived in a Bhora, nor did any of the Gurus. To confine a Fakeer to a Bhora seems unjust as the Fakeerness of a Fakeer is there regardless if he/she is an Bhora or not. Im not saying this True fakir who you met is wrong, i just felt the need to point out that from that statement do not start seeking Bhoras or making Bhoars a criteria for determining if one is a true saint or not.

According the Fridakot Teeka, Baba Adaam is refered to as Shiv ji

I doubt that you are going to be able to accept this interpetation of Adam and Eve, but I am hopeful that you are able to grasp it.

"The Adam and Eve story is incomprehensible to me!" I observed with considerable heat one day in my early struggles with the allegory. "Why did God punish not only the guilty pair, but also the innocent unborn generations?"

Master was more amused by my vehemence than my ignorance. "Genesis is deeply symbolic, and cannot be grasped by a literal interpretation," he explained. "Its 'tree of life' is the human body. The spinal cord is like an upturned tree, with man's hair as its roots, and afferent and efferent nerves as branches. The tree of the nervous system bears many enjoyable fruits, or sensations of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. In these, man may rightfully indulge; but he was forbidden the experience of sex, the 'apple' at the center of the bodily garden.14

"The 'serpent' represents the coiled-up spinal energy which stimulates the sex nerves. 'Adam' is reason, and 'Eve' is feeling. When the emotion or Eve-consciousness in any human being is overpowered by the sex impulse, his reason or Adam also succumbs.15

"God created the human species by materializing the bodies of man and woman through the force of His will; He endowed the new species with the power to create children in a similar 'immaculate' or divine manner.16 Because His manifestation in the individualized soul had hitherto been limited to animals, instinct-bound and lacking the potentialities of full reason, God made the first human bodies, symbolically called Adam and Eve. To these, for advantageous upward evolution, He transferred the souls or divine essence of two animals. 17 In Adam or man, reason predominated; in Eve or woman, feeling was ascendant. Thus was expressed the duality or polarity which underlies the phenomenal worlds. Reason and feeling remain in a heaven of cooperative joy so long as the human mind is not tricked by the serpentine energy of animal propensities.

"The human body was therefore not solely a result of evolution from beasts, but was produced by an act of special creation by God. The animal forms were too crude to express full divinity; the human being was uniquely given a tremendous mental capacity—the 'thousand-petaled lotus' of the brain—as well as acutely awakened occult centers in the spine.

"God, or the Divine Consciousness present within the first created pair, counseled them to enjoy all human sensibilities, but not to put their concentration on touch sensations.18 These were banned in order to avoid the development of the sex organs, which would enmesh humanity in the inferior animal method of propagation. The warning not to revive subconsciously-present bestial memories was not heeded. Resuming the way of brute procreation, Adam and Eve fell from the state of heavenly joy natural to the original perfect man.

"Knowledge of 'good and evil' refers to the cosmic dualistic compulsion. Falling under the sway of maya through misuse of his feeling and reason, or Eve—and Adam—consciousness, man relinquishes his right to enter the heavenly garden of divine self-sufficiency. 19 The personal responsibility of every human being is to restore his 'parents' or dual nature to a unified harmony or Eden."

As Sri Yukteswar ended his discourse, I glanced with new respect at the pages of Genesis.

_____________________________________________________________

14 "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."-Genesis 3:2-3.

15 "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. The woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."-Gen. 3:12-13.

16 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it."-Gen. 1:27-28.

17 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."-Gen. 2:7.

18 "Now the serpent (sex force) was more subtil than any beast of the field" (any other sense of the body).-Gen. 3:1.

Back to text

19 "And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."-Gen. 2:8. "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."-Gen. 3:23. The divine man first made by God had his consciousness centered in the omnipotent single eye in the forehead (eastward). The all-creative powers of his will, focused at that spot, were lost to man when he began to "till the ground" of his physical nature.

Source: The Autobiography of a Yogi Chapter 17.

first time poster, long time researcher my question is simple and straight to the point. Im in high school getting "average marks" and somehow i have this urge to study alot in the future before i graduate high school (specifically grade 10-12) as if i want to be in university getting 90 average and everyday im going crazy reciting the same words that im going to study very hard from grade 10 and onwards. This could be money crazy or something but my main reason of thinking this way is because i want to be achnowledged as a "educated" being as well as have a good financial future. Am i commiting some sort of sin for thinking that way?

My other question is about baptizing (i dont know alot about sikism ). Is it a sin for not being baptized because i am confused. I read some of the rules about baptizing and one of them is not eating meats and such and i like to eat meat but im not baptized so am i doing anything bad?

Thanks,

Nicky(i told you my post would be childish )

First of all every question is valuable. Everyone has to begin somewhere and such question no matter how childish they may seem should be asked. So ask away.

To be someone who can provide a financial stability to his/her family, parents should be a goal worth working for. If you have a desire to study hard, then do so with confidence.

But now you had said that you wanted to be acknowlegd (by others) as an educated person? Is this the sole reason for you wanting to study hard? Why do you want this acknowledged from others in this world?

I would like an answer to these questions from you.

Study hard, Work Hard for yourself, not so that other may praise you. Be stable financially so you may provide financial comfort for your family and so that you can also be in a position to help others in this world with your financial freedom. Do not seek praise from the world which will do nothing but bloat your ego. Be watchful of the true intention behind our desires. It is great that you want to study hard actually become someone in this world, but then this desire takes a twist and it becomes egoist as you do this not for yourself, but for others to praise you. Our mind is one sneaky mastermind, keep a watchful eye on it its intentions.

This is a journey that Sikhs (Seekers/Learners ) walk upon. Follow the Path with Honest and Sincerity, with Shardha, Bhaavna and Love everthing else will follow on its own. Do Simran, Meditate, do Japa you will find your answers within you.

u know wat ppl, i went 2 uni 2day, its a sunny day n all the girls were out!

i think im so weak that i cant control this aspect of my life.

its come to a point were im thinkin that i should cut of my kesh, cos if i cant even be a 1/2 decent sikh then wats the point?

Have you tried the methods that have been posted in this thread? The yoga, the observing the mind, the Sincere Prayers and others that have been posted or were they just nice to read?

thats sum good points there

with regard to point 1, im still at uni so gettin marrried mite not happen for quite a while!

point 2: i dont know any saints at all!

point 4: well the internet is a big problem, theres porn all over the place and to easy to access. I may need to cncel my internet in order to stop this because the urge comes now n again to watch sum porn!

the above are the only REAL problems i got

When the desire arises, you have then a choice...you always have a choice, it is then that you are on the crossroads. Make the choice that will benefit you in the long run, not the short term. Understand and look ahead on the state of mind that you will be in, the same mind that pull you toward it, is going to be in the state of regret/guilt for doing something it knows it shouldn't have done. What then is the purpose of doing the act in the first place? If you are goign to do it, then do it without Guilt, why feel guilty about something you want to do? The fact that there is Guilt is a sign that there is inner conflict. Pick the right side of the conflict.

If you honestly want to control this state without surpression, then i suggest you pray with a honest mind and ask to be protected when you face that state of desire. Prayer is your Guiding light, the 911, use it. Ask first to be guided, to become aware of what you are about to do, then ask that you may recoganize the Hand, the Guiding thought that is going to guide you to the right path out of the desire.