Mithar

Ok, I'm just curious, alot of people on this forum say the SGPC were buddies with the British and similar comments. But if you read SGPC history you see how the British imprisoned the early Akalis. The British were actually with the Mahants not the Akalis who formed the SGPC. Yet why do some still insist on trying to change history here?

Even my Bujurg who were Akalis were imprisoned and beaten by the British. Something just doesn't add up here. Reading about the early Akalis and how they would get beaten to a pulp yet still do simran is an inspiration for all. Even Gandhi had to say words of praise for the Akalis after hearing about them.

You seem to forget a bit of of the Congres- Muslim League relations history, especially Jinnah's membership in Congress before he left when he saw the increasing Hinduisation of the Congress because of Gandhi's mixing of Neo-Hinduism with politics. Had the Congress party remained a secular party things would probably not have turned that way. In any case there is nothing Islamic or dharmic in massacring innocent people on both sides.

So you admit it your self! The British only partitioned because the Muslims demanded it. So much for blaiming the Brits for everything. You are just aping what the Muslim league's Hindu Phobic propaganda is saying. What the Muslims did to the Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan was exactly if not worse than what the Zionists did to the Palestinians. But at least about 1/5 of Israel is still Muslim, we can't say the same about the minorities in the Islamic state of Pakistan.

I have a feeling that the same would happen to the Jews if the Jews decided tomorrow to create a Multi religious state of Israel by absorbing the Palistinians of the West Bank and Gaza.

I was reading a book by Pyara Singh Padam in which he also mentions that in many puraatan Dasam Granth sroops, the word Fakiraan is used instead of Muridaan. So Namdharis do have some credibility for their claim as well.

Personally I'll go with Muridaan.

Get your hands on all the books by Pyara Singh Padam since they are based on the original texts, plus he gives a good explaination/background info before presenting the texts.

Are you kidding me???? The Muslims were innocent victims who did not want any partition, it was all the fault of the British blah blah blah!!! I've heard it so many times, especially from India's leftist education system. But those of us who went through the barbarity of the Muslim separatists know it first hand, how they would hold their Muslim league rallies demanding a partition in Hindu-Sikh areas of west Punjab. They left the British no choice but the partition once the violence started. What the Muslims didn't expect was the level of retaliation from the side of the Sikhs which still gives the Muslims shivers down their spine.

Bahadur, once the forcible removal of Sikhs from their homes, massacres of entire Sikh villages and abduction of Sikh women had started especially in the Pothohar region, Sikhs of East Punjab weren't just going to take it quietly. Retaliation was bound to happen.

Nice to see that Mithar is also one of those who would accept to give up his land and house if the UN were to vote so.I'd love to see your face when some unknown guy knocks to your door tells you that you have 30 minutes to pack you things and leave because the UN gave hinm permission to have your house.

Greeks lost Turkey? Greeks were a minority in Turkey, the majority was made of Aramaic Christians who were treated as second class citizens by the Greeks. That is one of the reasons why they converted to Islam.

Bahadur, at least the Jews had some UN resolution, Muslims on the other hand don't even require any UN resolution when they do the same thing to the Kafirs. That is what they did to the Sikhs in 46-47 in west Punjab. My family lived there for centuries and were forced off their land. What the Sudanese are doing to the people of Darfur and Southern Sudan is the same.

BTW, the Greeks were the majority on the Coastal regions of Turkey. Istanbul was their capital then known as Constantinople.

What irks the Arabs, and Bahadur no doubt, is that Jews are fighting back and not accepting the place allocated for them in Islamic jurisprudence of being docile dhimmis. Dhimmi status is what Bahadur has in mind when he advises Israelis to 'integrate' with the Middle East!.

You do have a good point there Tony Jee.

Israel is not stolen land, the UN agreed to partition, the Arabs tried their luck to destroy Israel and were beaten and lost more land. If you want to talk of stolen land, most of the middle east is land stolen by Arabs from the original Christians. Maybe the Arabs should be giving back Egypt to the Copts, Iraq to the Assyrians and Turkey to the Greeks!

Again you make a good point here Tony Jee. I always hear of people saying "what if your were forced off you land" remark, but that is what the muslims have always done in history as well. We as Sikhs who lost west Punjab and our Holy Shrines know of this first hand. Greeks lost Turkey, Serbs lost Kosovo. When people fight back against Muslims they are demonised, but if they take it quietly the media doesn't seem to demonise the Muslims as much.

All over the world, many historical non Islamic shrines were forcibly converted to Masjids, especially in India. Now that some of those historical shrines are being taken back the media begins to show the Muslims as the victims. I ask you, if a Gurdwara were to be converted into a Masjid by force, is it not the right of the Sikhs to take it back using force? then why are the Hindus demonised for trying to take back Ayodhya? why is that act wrongly compared with operation bluestar by our uninformed/blind Hindu-phobic Panthic media?

One can't really say which side won. IDF is a modern fighting force probably the best in the world after the US forces. Pound for pound they are the strongest in the Middle East, in fact they can probably beat all the Arab armies in a conventional war as they have done in the past.

But the fight with Hamas and Hezbollah is not a conventional war. It is a modern army(IDF) fighting an unconventional fighting force which the west may describe as a "terrorist" organisation depending on your definition of terrorist because even the IDF originally started off similarly when the British were in charge of Palestine. As the old saying goes, one man’s terrorist is another man’s hero.

One thing is for certain, the way Hezbollah and Hamas openly move around with so much freedom, they would never do this if they had to face an Arab army because unlike a western army following western ethics, an Arab army would probably use very questionable tactics to put down revolts and armed resistance groups like the Hezbollah or Hamas. We all know how Saddam Hussain dealt with the Shia and Kurdish rebellions in his country even though now they may act very tough against the Americans. Hezbolloh was also very quiet when the Syrian army occupied Lebanon.

The way I see it, this particular Jatha has gone a step ahead to make even birds do simran! How many of us have inspired at least a human? Its easy to poke fun but hard to accept the truth . People would want to reply that the Jatha simran sounds like birds anyways, but then thats their way of hearing it. Too bad!

That is a good point Brother Mehtab Singh. If a person said Maraa(death) repeadly, but to a sacha Bhagat that would sounds like "Raam". You only need to listen like a Bhagat.

OK, so one of the parchariks who presented London BOSS sikhi week even at at Brunel before summer, he was drawinglines on a board and saying that sikhs reach the topline called sachkhand, and everyone else reaches the lower line called heaven, and I think there was a hell line as well. Now I think this guy was from the jatha, but this kinda stuff is being taught as regular sikhi to everyone. It was funny when kali christian cornered him, and he started saying something different, "other beliefs just reach THEIR OWN VERSION of sachkhand".

Well in the PC world, everyone goes to Sachkhand regardless of their ideology and faith based beleifs. To say otherwise would be the most Kattarpanthi/Terrorist thing in the world. Even if a person doesn't beleive in Sachkhand or even wants go to Sachkhand they STILL go to Sachkhand! that is PC type of thinking after all.

Personally I think PC is full of Bull $hit!!

Seems like Bahadur just wants to start a pangaa out of nothing.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U92zO4E6WPw&...feature=related

Will mainstream sikhs/religionists ever be able to worship with passion, as such; especially in the West?

Or are we so bound by maryada/protocols/rule&regs that that not only do we stymy our emotions and passions but start condemning others?

:?:

Actuall AKJ people do pretty much the same thing as neeldharis in this video. But you all ridicule it on this forum for some reason.

BTW, is it true that Neeldharis are a seperate group of Namdhari/kookay but without a dehdhari Guru?

I've been to Naushera many times but never had the chance to see the Neeldharis in action, I might visit them the next time I'm there.

They say that one of the attackers is "South Asian". That means he's desi. WTF!! Why would a desi attack a Sikh out of hate???

I think that it was last year that a South Asian boy of Pakistani origin had beated up a younger Sikh boy and cut his hair in New York. It's really shocking that in the post 9/11 world South Asians are carrying our hate crimes against fellow South Asians. We should be sticking togather not attacking one other.

LOL!!!!!!!!!

Great post Shaheediyan

The writer of that article seems to use too much logic for every single thing in Bachitar Naatak. Using this type of logic, one can also put doubts on Gurbani of SGGSJ. Where does it all end?

Seems like pure bullshit to me!

the term "Sanatana Dharm" was never used by ancient Indians. This is a recent term that started during the colonial British period. Recently this term has been high jacked by Hindutva movement types. But it is still a good term use though even though the wrong people have started using it.

My brother's children learn Kirtan from a master who specialises in Raags. Whenever the children get a note wrong, he flips out in anger and slaps them. When my brother asked them why he has to slap the children over a mistake, he says that "these Raags and Raagnis are my Devte. If my students get a note wrong, that is equal to insulting them, then what face will I show them after I die?"

I guess some people really do feel these Raags and Raagnis are real entities.

check out their video about how Taksal supposedly promoted homosexuality. This is 100% pure BULLSHIT!!!

This is amazing!! I hope apne Karseva Babay don't get their hands on this.

According to a book of hare krishna from the 1500's Guru Nanak participated in the ecstatic dance along with the hare krishna members when He visited jagatpur

Yes, according to them when Guru Nanak Dev Jee visited Orisa he met Chetanya Mahaprabhu and they both began dancing during Aarti pujaa. You can imagine how that must have looked like.

This sort of reminds of how the Hare Krishna people dance while doing kirtan at the same time. There does seem to be a connection between dancing and spirituality in Indian traditions, and even in some Sufi traditions.

There are cases of homosexuality in dera's of taksal back in india. Ask your elders who lives close to mehta. I m not biased against taksal in fact i intially took amrit from taksal. I am proving a point here, let me put it in layman terms and bold letters-

No samparda or jatha is immune from malicious/unmoral activities going on inside but its usually chelas of mahapursh who are 75% like snakes anyway try to nit pick stuff against other groups and forget about their own, there is saying in punjabi- apdi manji thela sooti mar kai dekhi aa pehla?

There was only one such case that I've heard of and I don't even know of that is even true or not.

I read some of it. It is worth the read. I'm surprised of why such contents are not studied by Sikh vidhvaans.

FYI I along with another Singh were the only ones to see through our friend Bahadur Ali when he was the toast of this forum.

That's true.