Mithar

I love big cat documentaries. Just too bad only UK people can see this one.

She should not bunch pakistani women with indians. How many indian teenager girls you have seen being married to older men forcefully? I never saw anybody, but I saw number of girls who put kheh in their parent's sirr by marrying off some sullah or running off with some other misfit by taking advantage of freedom given by their indian parents.

It is more common in paki families, as they are more conservative and matches are readily available as cousins.

Some teenager girls don't like any control over them and can make up stories like this. Parents would be happy even if they marry somebody within the community at their own wish, forget about marrying some buddha from back home.

You have made some very valid points.

It gets better!

LOL

I don't think if this type of technology had been in 1984 then intensity of riots would have been so high.The only riots that happened in in India after this electronic age is 2002 Gujarat riots and the negative publicity it created for BJP and Modi was so much that they lost power in 2004.Since 2002 India has not witnessed any major Riots because Politicians are now afraid of being caught in front of Camera.Even Gujarat is peaceful from 2002

Strangely, after the riots the state government of Modi became even more popular while it had the opposite effect on the center government of BJP.

What out for 'Muslamic' and 'Iraqi' law in the UK.......

LOL, Muslamic! I wanna start using that term too now.

No not at all. She has 3 chapters

1 - the history of the debates around the Dasam Granth (an overview)

2 - a chapter on the 3 chandi compositions (comparative and narrating)

3 - a chapter on the charitro pakhyan (an overview)

Its all written in a narrative form spending page upon page just summarising what happens in the different chandi compositions and resumes of various charitars. There is hardly any analysis.

The only interesting part is the last 25 pages (conclusion) where she begins to compare the Dasam Granth to other court materials from india... The rest of the book is just an overview, narration or abstract.. that was 50 £ wasted

Most of the books is just an overview? so you just paid 50 £ for 25 pages.

what a lousy book.. dont waste your money on it

Please explain. Is it Mcleodian type of crap that many western academics write?

LOL the last two were very funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJPesST-skg

what a show off. Reminds me of Prince Naseem.

Are we seeing some parallels to the 'annexation' of our people's historic kingdom?

Back then, the Brits were looking to refill their coffers after their disastrous humiliating campaign in Afghanistan. Having lost lost face they needed something to lift their flagging reputation, so the troubled but extremely wealthy Sikh kingdom was a good choice for attack.

Here we have a similar loss of face in Iraq, with the fleeing of Basra and a problematic Afghanistan. Problems pop up in an oil rich nation. Brits get the diplomatic channels open to feel around for support, and find a bunch of other Euros are up for it. Not only this but some Arab mofos are also 'backing the cause'. Voila!

But hang on, they say, we don't want to do another Iraq/Afghan and get our fingers burnt, so we'll hedge our bets by sharing the risk with the other like minded opportunist assholes and stick to using astars (long range projectile weapons, mainly from planes) for now.

They say a leopard doesn't change it's spots and a dog's tail never straightens out.

(And if a certain person - you know who you are - is going to come out with his usual Brit arselicking, apologist, sycophant abject peasantry for all this, benti, please do us a big favour and spare not only us, but also what shred of dignity you may possibly have left.)

One more thing to note is, why is the US not attacking the governments of Yemen or Bahrain which are also using brutality against it's citizens? it is because unlike Gaddafi, the rulers of those two states are lapdogs of the US master. I don't like Gaddafi as well, but the whole world knows that he is just another unlikable leader from the west's point of view as Saddam Husain was.

Hope the Arabs elect some good leaders from amongst them this time who will actually modernize and progress their nations instead of the same old stuff that they had to overthrow.

Mangalcharan was a major Sikh site. I actually liked that site too even though I didn't fully agree with some of the content. So much tukhs from Sarbloh Granth and other granths which we never saw before was on that site. I hope the Singh who was behind that site brings it back. Please rethink your decision.

Even if you don't want to add anything new, but atleast keep the old posts there so we can atleast see those.

I know of one Granthi who sexually molested a girl in B.C. area during the 90s. Later on he wrote some books and became famous. His name is Gurbaksh Singh KalaAfghana. It is sad that so many people from all over now follow this sexual abuser who now only see's dirt in Sri Dasam Granth. Here is the entire report about this case:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/45213-sexual-assault-court-case-report-kala-afghana-v-bhullar/

As for the Ragis sexually abusing white women. We should not believe it blindly. It is unsubstantiated and sounds more like Gup Shap at best. Maybe one or two women may have been abused, but I don't think it is a general trend. Whenever Ragis come to Gurdwaras near me, I usually invite them to my house and become friendly with them. I have found that in general Ragis are good people. To generalize against the entire Ragi community is like how some generalize against all Sants just because there have been one or two bad examples like Pehowala or Chicagowala.

White women are not like Asian women who will remain quiet if they were victims of a sexual assault, and neither is the 3ho community as tightly knit as the Amish community that such voices could not be heard. Look at the examples of the Catholic church or the Hare Krishna community, did victims remain quiet in those religious groups? NO! victims belonging to the white community usually always speak up and get heard by the authorities if such cases do occur.

Japan's nuclear reactor were quite old 1971,so they are made of old technology.The nuclear reactors which will be build now is of new technology.Also Solar and wind energy is not cheap ,they also require too much land and produce little electricity.

But look at the recent games at Delhi and the bad job India did. Just imagine if the same level of moorakhtaa applied at Indian nuclear power plants, it would be a huge disaster the world would remember for thousands of years. Already I feel scared for the future of India with multiple nuclear power plants. I hope Punjab and the states surrounding it do not open a nuclear plant. It is not just moorakhtaa, corruption that make me scared, let's say some Jihadi group targets these plants, then what?

Green power is the future. India has plenty of sunshine, and farmers would be more then happy to be a part of this if they would get a share of the profit by lending their land for this purpose, the GOI needs to take the initiative. India's coastal area can be utilized for wind power like some European countries use theirs.

Tha Taksals at Bhindra and Boparai have no such websites however if you want to hear their katha then by july i should have the complete guru granth sahib katha by Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji Dhudhike Walae and loads of katha fromt eh years gone by, by Sant Mohan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae.

Please upload the Katha by Giani Harbhajan Singh Jee, and please please please please also upload the katha by Sant Mohan Singh jee Bhindranwalay because Sant Mohan Singh Jee's Katha would be real Khajana.

We all know that non renewable energy is finishing rapidly and there are few alternatives of this.Nuclear power was the clear winner until the recent disaster in JapanSo What re the views of people here that whether countries should ot for nuclear power or not?

Japan is a highly advanced country and if such a disaster can happen there, then what hope is left to 3rd world countries trying to build nuclear power plants. India and many other 3rd world countries should invest in green power such as solar and wind power. It is cheap and great for the economy.

that website was put together by a number of singhs in birmingham who still hold on to the fact that Sant Jarnail Singh Ji is the Mukhi. That Site seems to be untouched an not updated ever.

I think the two new sites will be better with lots of katha, keertan to be updated regularly and information

Isn't there a 3rd Taksal group which still holds to the belief of Sant Jee being alive. They recently opened their Taksal at Ajnala in Amritsar. Do they have a website of their own?

Does the Taksal in Bhinderkala also have their own site? I like their Santhiya and Nitnem banis which are available on Gurmat veechar, I wish we could hear some Katha from there as well.

No way We have Singhs attached to our names because of several misconception among Indians regarding Lions.Lions as a animal have very bad character.If you will look deep into this subject many Lions just run away from fights and just prefer to roar to scare their competetors On the other hand Tiger are much more brave than lion many times they even attack Elephants and Rhino's alone which an entire pride of Lions hardly do.

But when you look at a Singh(male Sikh) who does he resemble more, a Lion or a Tiger? the lion is such a noble and beautiful animal that many nations across the globe use the lion as a representative of their national character. Yes, the tiger is also good, for me both are equally worthy of respect.

I'm with Chatanga on this. I think the wolf is worthy of respect like the lion and tiger. The Mongol and the Turkic peoples of the steppe honour the wolf. I think it is only in India that the wolf is connected with negativity.

As for the Lion VS tiger debate, we as Sikhs should support the lion. This animal is like our unofficial symbol. Singh means lion, so it represents us.

How can Hans Raj Hans be a Chor, he doesn't even write his songs???? As for his voice, there is no doubt he has talent. I like him for his voice and most, not all, most of his songs. Not forgetting Gurdas Maan, who writes and sings his own songs, another legend, and babbu maan. Who all are guilty of singing about women, dance, sharaab, etc. At least they are being true to themselves. They are singers in a commercial work. Supply and demand. i.e. Miss Pooja.

As for the chor sartaj, majority of people won't even know what he done. So his chori is safe with him.

I'd rather listen to somebody who is being true to themselves, rather than a chor. One of them is a pretender and the other isnt.

Please provide clarification where some aspects of Punjabi culture is in line with Gurmat? That is what you are implying are you not?

Good for you if you are a Proud Punjabi, and a double whammy good for you if you don't subscribe to "Gora" culture.

Here are some questions for you, How do you better society? The Kanjar culture, dance, women, Sharaab?? (been here for thousands of years)

Oh and what is wrong with Gora culture? That is a bigoted statement to make.

I've had enough of this topic and your sartaj..lol....

Have you heard his third album, particularily the song daulatan, here listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j87SRTBef_E

When he was writing this, do you think he was thinking "hmmm..How shall I better the punjabi culture.." Do you think he thought twice about stealing somebody elses work?...or hold on, what am writing about, respect is better than money....

Or do you think he was thinking "..hmm hun mai hor price kida chuka, 25 pound bohat kat hai"....

come dude, wake up and smell the turka

Your Hans Raj Hans is a Chor. He copies his songs from Pakistani artists and makes loads of money off it. Take a look at "his" famous song silli silli.

The one by the copy cat Hans Raj Hans:

This is the original by the Pakistani artist Naseebo:

This is called PLAGIARISM! The thing that really gets me is the way your Hans Raj Hans pretends to be a Sufi Saint with his long hair and shaking head like he's in some kind of high spiritual state in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TeN2HWMZq4&feature=related

But then he shows his other side in these songs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWW-tQztG40

WAH JI WAAH! What a dhan dhan Sufi Saint he is!

Gurdas Maan and Babbu Maan are different, please do not put them down to the level of your Hans Raj Hans's category. They don't act like Sufi saints. They are entertainers and that is what they act like. Hans Raj Hans on the other hand says he is a Sufi, then also sings about partying, women and what not! Sartaj I know is also a Sufi pretender. but atleast he doesn't sing about women, shraab, dance while also pretending to be a sufi. I could care less for Punjabi music, I rarely listen to it anymore since it is mostly about women, shraab, partying, dance. But any singer that makes an effort to try to since about some real issues I would not condemn.

As for Punjabi culture, any thing that is not in line with Gurmat is not to be followed. But anything that does not go against Gurmat is okay. Same is true for any culture. It's really surprising how on one hand you condemn your own culture, but then you say what is wrong with Gora culture and even say I am bigoted by making my statement. Firstly, I didn't condemn Gora culture, I just said i don't subscribe to it so that is not a bigoted statement since Gora culture also has some good aspects and bad aspects (like Punjabi culture does).

Am I missing something here???

Why give back the child to the same parents who sold him?

I found that strange too.

This is great seva brother. The seva of Sri Dasam Granth being scanned is very much needed online. Pandit Narain Singh Jee is also one of my favourites when it comes to Sri Dasam Granth Steeks. His translation are accurate yet very easy to understand.

I actually didn't bring up the sufi issue. You are beating that drum, not me. I am only concerned with what they sing. Since finding out about Sartaj, I just can't listen to that chor (Thief), I guess this is uplifting the so called Punjabi Culture you treasure so much.

As for hans raj hans, its a personal choice and I believe that he has a excellent voice, miles better than most singers in Panjab, including your Sartaj. I actually don't mind his singing, at least he doesn't steal from other singers and writers (yes the lesser of two evils).

As for Bekaar stuff, trust me, most if not all of Punjabi Culture is bekaar.

I'm not beating any drum. The reason I mentioned him having a PhD in Sufi music, possessing a diploma in Farsi language and being a professor in Sufi music at PU Chandigarh is because in your previous post you said: "He isn't a professor....you only become a Dr. after you do a PhD (am I right??), and the after writing a dozen or so papers and been accepted by your peers, you then become a recognised professor."

As for Hans Raj Hans, he's one of the biggest Chor (Thief) of them all. Half of "his" songs are actually plagiarized from Pakistani Punjabi artists. Not only that, he's also a proud Radhaswami who promotes his heretic cult! Yet he also tries to pretend he's some kind of a big time Sufi saint while also singing about women like some cheap bollywood hero! What a charlatan he is! Having an excellent voice may be good, many kanjars and kanjaris also have great voices, what is that suppose to prove? Using one's voice for the betterment of society and culture is a good use of one's voice rather then singing about kanjar culture like dance, women, Sharaab.

Your assertion that "most if not all of Punjabi Culture is bekaar" is not true. Some aspects of Punjabi culture is not in line with Gurmat, but most if it is good. I for one am proud to be a Punjabi. I do not subscribe to Gora culture.

I believe had he not advertised himself as a so called sufi singer, tied his turban like he does, etc. He would not have been noticed that much. Oh and not forgetting the shyte loads of photographs he has taken with Gurdas Maan to advertise himself. My cousin back in India was at the Taj Hotel where he was married and he said when Gurdas Maan came to the wedding reception, he pulled out a chair and sat him on the stage where he was sitting with his wife. He was holding his hand more than his wives. lol.

There are songs by Gurdas Maan, Hans Raj Hans, Babbu Maan (especiallu his new material) and plenty of other singers, etc which are family oriented.

Sartaj is trying to be another Gurdas Maan, who writes and sings his own songs. He has failed at that big time.

Problem with Panjab is Miss Pooja fever and rightly so, she is only singing what is happening in Punjab. Kudos to her for cashing in. Anybody in her shoes would do the same.

I believe Sartaj had won an Sufi award in Dubai, which they are now thinking of taking back.

There was a rumour flying around that Sartaj wanted to charge what Gurdas Maan charges. When I saw his ticket prices it put me off, £25, £30 and £50. I was like, hold on, this guy isn't even that big.

Now, if you see Gurdas Maan's prices, they have doubled, starting at nearly £80 a ticket going upto £200 at the Royal Albert Hall.

This was a message to Sartaj, basically saying you can't compete with Mr Maan.

Not am implication. Its proven. It is a fact. He was fined and ordered to pay the original poet, past, present and future sales.

He isn't a professor. He is a normal teacher. I think there is a difference between a professor in the west than in India. Here (England), you only become a Dr. after you do a PhD (am I right??), and the after writing a dozen or so papers and been accepted by your peers, you then become a recognised professor.

In India, students often call teachers, Sir or Professor Ji.

He is a theif, no positive contribution there.

You are wrong. He doesn't represent a new wave of Panjabi Music in my eyes. I have been listening to Panjabi songs for a long time. I have collections both from Indian Panjab and Pakistan Panjab. Trust me, he is nothing new.

I believe, if you take his turban away and his fancy dress. Nobody will notice him much.

He is selling a complete image. Its called Brand Recognition.

When we think "challa", we think Gurdas Maan.

His look is his trade mark.

His style of singing is not new. My favourite singer is Hans Raj Hans, I don't think there is anybody in the Panjab who can compete with his voice. Thats my opinion anyway.

Anybody remember Patta Patta Singha Da Varai?

He has done a phd in Sufi Music and teaches in Punjabi University Chandigarh which in Punjab at least is considered a good university, he has also done a diploma in Farsi. No one is saying he is a Sufi. We all know he is an entertainer who dresses up the way he does just to entertain. But the content of his music is what sets him apart from Hans Raj Hans (Also a Sufi pretender) and others who sing about dance, women and other bekaar stuff. Having a good voice is one thing, but using that voice to sing about women, sharaab, dance and such stuff is not doing service to Punjabi language or culture. Such singers are only contributing to the degradation of Punjabi culture.

Lion Vs Tiger. That debate can go on and on like a religious debate without end. Both are great animals that need protection in the wild. The tiger is especially in danger mainly because of the Chinese people and their strange fetish towards tiger parts being used in Chinese medicine.

BTW, India also has lions called asiatic lions in the Gir forest of Gujarat. There are no tigers there. Makes you wonder why? maybe survival of the fittest.

could we excuse our kirtanis/dhadhis who drink alcohol as well then?

Dont get me wrong, i dont hate sufis or anything, i just beleive that its a lower form of worship than kirtan.

a sufi on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tJ6LCUBO5I

I understand what you and Tony Jee are coming from. But, the reason why I don't have a problem with Sirtaj is because Sirtaj represents a new wave of Punjabi music which breaks off from the Punjabi music we have been hearing for the last 25 years or so in which the main topic of the song is Sharaab, dance and women not to mention the music videos in which the girls dance like half dressed Kanjaris from Heera Mandi. I would rather see Punjabi people listening to Sirtaj than those trashy Punjabi singers we are usually accustomed to. And I agree with you that compared to Gurbani Kirtan all other music is nothing. But if the average Punjabi person must listen to Punjabi music for whatever reason, then wouldn't it be better for that person to listen to Sufi music rather then the regular trashy music coming out of east Punjab?