Mithar

Hazara is the place where the 1st major riots against the Sikhs took place. in dec 1946 the whole sikh populace were driven out. the failure of the Sikhs to react against the muslims, emboldened them to make further pogroms againt the sikhs in multan and rawalpindi a few months later.

True. The riots against the Sikhs had started way earlier during 1946. But Sikhs did not react until 1947. Had the Sikhs reacted strongly in 1946 maybe the outcome might have been different.

The article posted by DalSingh is very interesting. It shows that the English (Americans and British) have not learned from history. The author of the article is a person named Dr. Preeti Nalwa. Could she be a relative of Hari Singh Nalwa by any chance?

Seems like Abbott was a real villain. And yes, it is such an irony that the city where the Angrez were plotting Jihad against the Sikhs, fate chose the same city to house the modern face of Jihad Osama.

The British also secretly supported the first known Wahabi Jihad of Syad Ahmad Barelvi and Shah Ismael(grandson of Shah Walliulla). But Sikhs crushed that Jihad during the battle of Balakot where Syad Ahmad Barelvi and Shah Ismael both died. Shah Ismael may not be such a known figure amongst the Sikhs, but amongst the Muslims of South Asia he is well known since he was the grandson of Shah Walliulla, who is regarded as an authoritative figure amongst the Muslims of South Asia. It was he who invited Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade India and defeat the Marathas which he did during the 3rd battle of Panipat.

Someone wrote this on the comments section.

js

Additional information:

His actions led to the outbreak of the 2nd Anglo-Sikh War. He trained at the military college of the East India Company at Addiscombe, and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Bengal artillery in 1823. In 1830 he took part in Sir John Keane's invasion of Afghanistan, and in 1842 was made assistant to the British Resident at Indore.

In 1846 he became commissioner for settlement of the Punjab boundaries, before becoming Resident's assistant at Hazara in 1848. Soon after taking this post he accused Chatar Singh Atarivala, governor of Hazara, of plotting a Sikh uprising against the British. In August 1848, without any authority, he suppressed minor unrest in the Hazara Sikh Brigade, which he described as "the national rising of the Sikhs", by inciting Muslim peasants to destroy the Sikh Brigade. He then led a Muslim force against Hazara to expel Chatar Singh. During this action Commodore Canora, the artillery commander of Hazara, was killed by the Sikhs for supporting the British, and Abbott demanded retribution.

Again acting without authority, he organized a jihad against the Sikhs, which provoked the Hazara revolt that led to the 2nd Anglo-Sikh War. He later published an account of his role in these events in "An Account of Personal Sandees at Hazara", and the city of Abbottobad, Pakistan, was named after him.

1500 vs 16000 is way over exaggerated. Lets not forget that the Sikh army was a modern army of it's time unlike other non European armies which lacked knowledge of modern warfare. British accounts of the Anglo Sikh wars are extremely bias and usually always show British as being outnumbered and over inflate Sikh army.

It is not a new trend it started 15 years ago.We already did it then and as a result combined property of our joint family is now 25% what it should have been.And I know Sikhs are in builder business if more have joined it then it is good

LOL even many NRI SIkhs are in this business in India. Even my family is in the builder business. Even though we live in Canada, still someone from the family goes to India once a year to buy a plot of land in Ludhiana or Jalandhar and make a house or stores on it and sell it for a profit. It is really profitable work.

Whether Badal is stooge or not reality is his party get maximum number of sikh votes.Also please tell why will sikh youth will support China when they themselves have Dreams of USA,Canada UK .If China West conflict will grow then chances of Sikhs immigrating to these countries will get less as they will also be seen as ally of China.

I did not mention Sikh youths. I said Sikh leaders. Badal is useless as a leader. But in the future if and whenever we have a useful visionary leader, it would be wise on his part to look beyond India (look beyond the well) and establish relations independently of Delhi. Sikhs need to stop caring "what will Indians think" type mentality. Sikh leaders need to think of the Panth first and then anyone else second. For a Sikh leader the interests of the Panth should be first rather then thinking "what about this or that"? Due to globalization, Sikhs need to think globally rather then being stuck in the well.

In 1962 China was in near conflict with soviet over border .Soviet was much superior at that time.Also I heard that USA supplied lot of material to India in 1962.As far media is concerned there are many leftists journalists Which tried their level best that India and China can become friend but it is always the China that give an edge to Anti chinese media.China said that arunachal people will not need any visa for China as they are part of China ,I don't think India ever said that about separate visas for Tibetans also please remember China's demand for Arunachal got much more vocal in last 15 years while India has not increased its Tibetan support

In 1962, the China Soviet conflict had just begun, but it was not serious enough to cause a war between the two. That was much later in the late 60s which eventually split the communist world in two camps. In 1962 war, China had actually over run and occupied Arunanchal, they still gave it back to India after the war because Arunanchal was not their objective. If they really wanted Arunanchal they would have simply kept it and not give it back and India could have done nothing at the time. Arunanchal is only now used as a scare tactic. You need to understand in the world of diplomacy this is common.

And who was the ideal of nehru? It was soviet and anti west feeling

I still don't understand what this has got to do with India's good relations with Soviets. Nehru being a bumb idiot is his own doing not the soviet union's fault. If a family has a Nalayak foolish son, you cannot blame the neighbors for this just because the foolish Nalayak son has friendly relation with the neighbor.

Russia and China now are different from the realities of the cold war. Russia will be a 1st world economy within 2 decades and China will surpass the US in a decade as the largest economy. The winds of change are blowing at a different direction and India should realize this and have good relations with China. Russia knows what the west is up to which is why they are trying to make India and China come close to one another.

Is there any such thing sikh leader?The only mass support in Punjab have is to Akali dal badal Who is almost the most hated politician by Other Sikhs.Also Akali dal Badal is very much pro India so there is hardly any chance that they will go to China.

Badal is a stooge of the BJP. He only cares for himself and his family. If and whenever Sikhs have a leader who will selflessly care for the Panth, then he should develope relations with China independently of India. The SGPC has a lot of potential if only used by the right leader.

1962 was a difficult year for China too they were isolated internationally and were also of enemies of Soviet and USA .advances in Arunachal could have mean full scale war and much more international support to India including supplies

so they made wise decision by withdrawing from Arunachal but that does not mean they don't have ambitions in Arunachal.in 1975 even the sikkim accpeted itslef part of India because of fear of Chinese invasion .Though mongloid people in India are regularly mocked and laughed but they still prefer to be part of India rather than China.

In 1962 war while India was getting beaten, Nehru asked US for military help which the US refused. Regardless of military aid, India was at the mercy of China since it had advantages over India militarily. China could have done all it wanted and more. At the time, China was not a nation that cared about world opinion which is what Nehru failed to realize. Arunanchal was for China's taking as she pleased and India could have done nothing. But China didn't take it simply because she knew that India had been badly defeated and the Chinese objective of the invasion had been fulfilled. Arunanchal and other parts of India are only being claimed by China only as a counter measure to keep India at check. It is more of a diplomatic issue now than a real military threat. Indian media tends to over exaggerate the Chinese threat to keep viewers more eager to listen to the news since Pakistan is such a boring new now to Indian viewers. Media tends to create new threats which are only as true as the boogyman.

Tell me what happened to countries who supported Soviet in cold war.All of them including India ended up as bankrupt While allies of west Like South korea Japan etc emerged as industrial nations.

How China become so rich? By allowing their labour to be fully exploited by west and USA MNC companies so even China is dependent on west .If USA and West ban imports from China they will loose cheap consumer goods but Chinese will loose millions of jobs

As I said previously, the biggest tragedy for India was Nehru himself. That pathetic man chose all the wrong economic policies for India because of which India could not progress until Manmohan Singh became finance minister in the 90s and opened up India. India's economic backwarness has nothing to do with it's dealings with the Soviet Union. India's failure was because of it's socialist economic structure that Nehru decided to adopt.

Outsourcing in the 21st century is bitter reality for west and both India and China are competing for it.even some economists says that if china revalue its currency then India and few other countries will be the biggest beneficiories rather trhan USA or West

As far as the economy is concearned then India's greatest leader is undoubtedly Manmohan Singh. If only a man like him had been India's leader in 1947 India would now have been a first world nation. Indian leaders have shown over and over that they are not smart enough to deal with other world leaders. The US will only use India as a counter balance against China for it's own selfish interests. The US is the most imperialistic nation since the fall of the British empire. Russia and China alliance are the rising sun, they are nations which will be advanced economically and military in the near future. India would be smart to join them.

Hubert Harrison's reply represents all the people's who were dominated by the western empires lead by the British. In today's terms it perfectly represents western powers lead by the US.

India hardly supported Tibetans .If India really wanted to counter China then it should had deployed Army in Tibet in 1952 as Indian army was quite strong at that time and could had countered Chinese army well but India failed to did that and also Nehru in United nations accepted that Tibet was part of China .What you people are saying was the Nehru fantasy that China and India will become great friends.

Which is why people say Nehru is the reason why India got beat in 1962. When the British left India in 1947, they left India with a modern army which was amongst the best trained armies in the world. But Nehru had an anti army stance. He made cuts after cuts to the army which made the army only more inefficient. China on the other hand was spending more and more money on their army. So in 1962 when a strong large and efficient Chinese army faced a under equipped, under funded Indian army the result was not surprising. Only after 1962 did India realized it's mistake and began investing in the army and the results show how well India performed in the 1965 war against Pakistan. If Nehru was not PM of India, it is very likely that today India would have been a first world nation.

Sikhs should stay away from this conflict.China will use us and may throw us and again we will be branded as chinese agents.Also I don't think at present China will much give weightage to Sikhs as there are many other separatists movements in which would have been really interested .

Taking advantage of an opportunity when it presents itself is a quality Sikh leaders need to realize. Much of the world including the Muslim world is now looking towards China. They realize China will be unstoppable and Sikhs leaders need to take advantage of this. SGPC should send religious delegations to China to build a solid relationship since SGPC is considered a representative of the Panth.

India and China can never have friendly relations China call Arunachal South Tibet and its part.Friendly relation means India should give up its claim on Aksai chin and give arunachal to China which India can never afford.

Not really, if China wanted to take over Arunanchal and other parts of India they would very well have done so in 1962 when they had India at their mercy. They use Arunanchal (and other parts of India) more of a scare tactic to keep India on her toes so India would be on the defensive instead of the offensive and claim territory lost to China in the 1962 war. It is a tactical move on China's part. Plus they do this because of India's open support of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan independence movement. From China's perspective it is a counter measure to India's moves that they see as threatening to Chinese territory.

If USA will start favouring India then this will be the best thing for India.What China can offer to India? Last time they were also trying to steal software industry from India on the other hand it is the software industry of west that has changed the destiny of millions of Indians.US west- china conflict is much more favourable for india than India china- russia relation.China became rich because it offered its low cost wage workers to MNC companies of west.If US china tension will increase then more companies will pull out from China and will search their bases in India,Bangladesh,Vietnam etc

No my friend, trusting USA would be the worst move India can make. Friendship with USA is often as deadly as hostility from the USA. You can never trust the US. The US is like the former British empire. Just as the Sikhs trusted the British by signing treaties of friendship with the British but ended up being taken over by their former "friend", same way friendship with the US will result in India being controlled by the US. If India is smart they will rather choose Russia and China over the US.

5. Were the Kakkaars given as we know them today? Or Trai Mudra as some Nihangs say (Kes Kach Kirpan). Or were Sikhs just ordered not to remove hair and keep weapons to defend the poor?

Not according to the Buddah Dal Gutka which lists 5 Kakkars.

China has as much imperialistic ambitions as west has may be more.Indian leaders had same type of thinking as you have that's why they went to China and India get its ass kicked in 1962.Both India and China are competetors and they can never be friends.Yesterday I was watching discussions and some channlel was saying That Indian parts,Nepal,South Korea and Japan are all on the list of China to invade

USA want India to become its pet dog while China want India to be kicked street dog.Now India has to decide what to become,no other choice

Well, as far as Communist China is concerned it is a threat to India. But from China's perspective, India is no angel. India's open support for the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan freedom movement is a direct challenge to Chinese territorial integrity. The reason why India got it's ass kicked in the 62 war is all because of Nehru. He was the worst thing to have happened to India.

As far as Sikhs are concearned I think Sikh leaders should develop good relations with China. China is a future world leader which will even surpass the US-Euro world domination. In fact, India should also realize this and develop friendly relations with China instead of trying to complete with it. The US does not want China and India to have good relations. These Anglo Saxons are smart and still playing their divide and rule game. They are trying to use India as a counter balance to a rising China.

Russia knows what the west is doing, that is why Russia is trying to promote India Chinese friendship by creating and promoting BRIC in opposition to US-Euro economic bloc. Russia on their part is even trying to counter NATO by creating and promoting the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO). Russia is trying it's best to bring India into the SCO but India trying not to make the US feel threatened is not joining, while Pakistan knowing the benefits of the SCO is trying it's best to join but the SCO does not want Pakistan that much since they know Pakistan is going to be more of a liability than an asset.

Sikh leaders in America still have a lot of work to do to inform Americans that Sikhs are a distinct group.

interesting video

Let me tell you a case which happened with my chachi's distant relative.She forced her parents to find a clean shaven guy sikh/hindu.As the Clean shaven sikh guys are difficult to find in cities her parents have to select a hindu boy

.Just before the marriage One relative of Boy told the parents that this Hindu guy is weird your daughters life will be ruined ,so they broke the marriage but then the boy came to them and created the whole emotional drama and the marriage was performed .Anyway what the person told was found to be true the guy was totally weird , unemployed and also a wife beater.The life of that girl became hell forcing her to leave her law education to physical beating and not even giving her proper clothes in winter.Now whatever she and her parents are going through is just because of a clean shaven face which she wanted. my chachi was also telling that if she wanted then there were truck load of educated high earning sardars were available to marry her but she ruined he aswell her parents life.

This reminds me of this story. A few years ago, my family knew this one educated Kesadhari NRI boy. My mother wanted one of her relative's girl to marry him from India since the boy was a very good boy. My mother told the parents of the girl in India about the boy and the parents liked the proposal. Then when parents asked the girl, she refused saying she will only marry a clean shaven NRI boy. The proposal was dropped. So the rejected Kesadhari boy did go to India and married another girl.

Our relative's girl also found a Rishtaa with a clean shaven NRI boy who drives a truck with no education background. When the girl came to Canada she began to have all these restriction imposed on her. All of a sudden she was not allowed to communicate with her relatives in Canada or even her parents in India. While the girl who married to educated Kesadhari NRI boy is living the good happy life with no restrictions.

I'm not saying that clean shaven are bad. Plenty are good, they are no different from kesadhari boys, it is just Sikh girls who don't see it that way. But he moral of the story is that Sikh girls are one of the dumbest species out there. No offense to Sikh girl members of this forum. I have seen Kesadhari boys having no problem attracting the attention of Hindu and Muslim women, but Sikh girls seem to avoid kesadhari boys like they are not even Sikhs themselves. Sikh girls suffer from the worst inferiority complex ever!

I would say that since child hood, most of my friends have eventually cut their hair. The reason they give is that they are cutting it because Sikh girls like Sikh guys who are monaas. It is one thing to have Sikh religion decline because of outsiders, but this declining trend of Kesadhari boy is mainly because of Sikh girls. That is mainly why Sikh boys of marriageable age are mostly all monaas. Sikh girls have done the most disservice to Sikh faith in my opinion.

Yes there is a section of Hindus who hate Sikhs and that section is Punjabi Hindus . I live in Delhi NCR and know their mentality but what suprising is that its not Punjabi Brahmins or Banias its Khatris and Aroras.

Even Gurdwara going khatri Arore has anti Sikh mentality they will talk Prahji and Verji at ur face and at ur back they would say admin cut SARDARS Gianis .

Even non Punjabi Hindus dont like Punjabi Hindus (Khatris and Aroras)

Anyone know why these Khatris /Aroras have anti Sikh mentality ?

all the khatri arora Sikhs i have met are good Sikhs. They do a lot of seva in the Gurdwaras. Are you talking about Hindu khatri/aroras?

is Sheykh Abdul Kerim al-Kibrisi a Nakshbandi sufi? and is he a student of Shiekh Nazim?

It has gone to another level because I have seen more and more friends who are girls targetted converted and so on. I am finding sikhs slacking in there own religious beliefs and seen that we lacked in converting them during sikh raj and are too tolerant to the most intelorant people. The point of this was to go into the companions the caliphas being traitors who went and created empires converted people forcefully and kept on doing it until they got to persia, the persians attacked us indians by the sword and converted us. Islam calls men believers to sleep around with non-muslims and to go after them and convert them as they did in gurus time before and even now. We were forbidden from this as khalsa maryada does not allow it. It has driven me crazy all of this stuff of so much injustice for centuries and the world has just taken it and numbers have grown of people who are being tricked into doing more of the same.

The best way to counter Islam or any other religion is to have plenty of knowledge about your own religion. That way they will not be able to convert you or any other Sikh. Sikhs are not out to convert anyone, but if Sikhs start a movement of conversion in the future, the Muslims will be the hardest ones to convert for a number of reasons. Firstly, a Muslim who leaves Islam will be shunned by the family and is also condemned to death. Secondly, Muslims are usually more informed about their religion that the average non Muslim is about his religion and also takes great pride in Islam.

I think that if Sikhs start to do Parchar to non Sikhs, the Hindus of India will be the easiest and most receptive to Sikhi.

Sheikh Faiz sort of looks like wolverine from x-men

What does this phrase mean?

ਮੰਨੇ-ਪ੍ਰਮੰਨੇ

Known-well known

BTW, this is a great thread.

Please tell us what is the purpose of posting this video here? You just throw in a whole lot of videos without telling us what we are to use them for.

Did you read the book i told you to order?

This forum is called Sikh awareness where we are trying to primarily learn about Sikhi. But the last month this forum has turned into Islam awareness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4-6mpBDf5k&feature=related

Also Hazrat Ali sacrificed his own son alike to guru gobind singh sacrificing his sons. Also we find pir buddhu shah was a shia so following hazrat ali he also sacrificed his own sons to fight aurangzeb.

Peer Buddhu Shah Jee was not Shia. He was a Sufi Saint. As Amardeep Jee mentioned, Imam Ali did not sacrifice his son. His sons died long after the death of Imam Ali.

The thing with the war between Islamic imperialists and western imperialists is that none of them follow the proper conduct of war. For us we think it is wrong to kill an unarmed person because our Dharm teaches us that. But Americans pick and choose which rules they want to follow of the Geneva convention. Same thing with the Muslims. They will not show mercy to an unarmed combatant either especially if the combatants happens to be non-Muslims. Like I said earlier this war is a war between two evils.

Wow, great seva. This is something that I was looking for. Also do you have the teeka by Udasi sadhu Anandghanas? It would be interesting to read that and compare a puraatan Udhasi viakhya of Japjee Sahib.

This report seems more like a conspiracy theory. Zawahiri had no reason to kill Bin Laden. In fact, Al Qaida as an organization is almost finished as it is. All of it's members are on the run or hiding rather then planning terrorist attacks. Rather then Al Qaida of Osama, groups that owe allegiance to AL Qaida or groups which are using the Al Qaida brand name all over the world are more dangerous then the original Al Qaida itself of Bin Laden and Zawahiri.

Now that Osama Bin Laden is dead, what are the 150,000 NATO forces still doing in Afghanistan considering the fact that they were there to find Osama dead or alive. Now that the purpose of their invasion has been fulfilled they need to leave Afghanistan alone and focus their combined resources on what really matters "the economy".