Kaljug

Is there a specific marayada for carrying out a chalisa? What is the history behind it?

Fateh!

Do an ardas before you begin asking for blessings to complete the 40 days jaap. Jap should be done at the same place at the same time each day. Light toof and jot every day before you begin. Have a sealed jar of water present. Rise at amritvela, do your nitnem, then start jap. Technically the malay should be completed while you are sitting in asana, but I think the auntie ji was told she could do some of it on the move. Ardas at completion for thanks

This chalisa is mentioned in Sant Baba Jagjit Singh Harkhowale's biography and, I believe, in Sant Baba Harnam Singh's biography also. I don't know what the origin of the practice is, but it's common in Hindu traditions to do sawa lakh jap of a mantra to get siddhi in it. The aim with Mul Mantra chalisa is not for siddhia, but as an aid to developing concentration for further bhagti.

Regards,

K.

Kaljug Jee,

Is it really difficult to accept that you could not find one reference from the reverend Gurus suggesting reading Paath while counting.

Morning!

Hey man, I'm not your chela, you can't expect me to do your work for you. ;-) But, since sharing is caring, see here for simran (repition of naam or bani) in gurbani:

http://sikhismgurbani.com/images/SikhismG/...0-%20semran.pdf

Here's a chapter on amritvela being the early hours of the morning (hupefully your chelay will read this and force you to wake up early):

http://sikhismgurbani.com/images/SikhismG/...ran%20vayla.pdf

Many fake Baabaas have made life earnings by suggesting reading Paaths while counting those.

Yeah, it must really smart that you cannot be one of them due to there being so many of them. Ah well, not to worry, I am sure you will find your niche. You've got all the triteness and the hallmark card spirituality to be a gooroo, but you need to work on the images. Modern day advertising is all about the photos because people don't have the time to read your work to know if you're the real thing. May I suggest a couple of airbrushed photographs, a little foundation for glowing skin and some eyedrops to give your eyes that sparkling fresh look. Don't forget to get your teeth done - nothing says spirituality like a set of gleaming pearlescent teeth!

Let me know if you need any help with the marketing of your brand.

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

These kind of people do not have the courage to say anything to a Sikh's face. These people were the ones referred to when the British said, "one Englishman can drive a million of them". They maintain the cowardice of their ancestors which resulted in India being subjugated by Muslim invaders for a thousand years.

The only way you will know if you are face-to-face with one of these RSS fanatics is by the reek of cowpiss on their breath:

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Co...ne-cola/421641/

K.

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Kaljug Jee!

At least try to answer my questions.

*****

Cul Jee,

You wrote "Someone that did little paat has been inspired to do undertake an intense increase in their bhagti . . ."

Reverend Gurus never suggested doing Paath, i.e., reading or reciting their Hymns while counting.

After how many sufferings, people will realize that they are following fake preachers.

On the names of Gurus these preachers have not sold only their own souls.

Balbir Singh

LOL

Would you prefer it if I answered your question in the kind of doggerel verse that you write on your website?

http://www.saysatsriakal.com/index2.htm

It's become clear from your website that you are just another lonely and useless idiot who wants to become a gooroo in his own right. I am not going to refer to you as Singh anymore because you are nothing of the sort. I suspected you were probably a cult figure of some kind from your incoherent ramblings, the laziness of the spirituality you advertise here, and the empty promises of eternal happiness through following your bullshit.

Singho, the first sign of an egotistical non-entity desperate to be a Sikh gooroo is this: they reject all of the sampardaic teachings, they demean all the scholars of the panth, they do not want you to work for your own mukti (you just have to believe in them), they believe that everyone else is wrong and they alone understand what Gurbani really means, they claim that all other Sikhs are just following empty religious rituals, they redefine words so that they do not actually have to work (i.e., amritvela is whenever bani is read - so you can wake up at 12pm on a weekday and still convince the followers that you are really, really spiritual). You can find all of these signs on this fool's website. He has even blessed us with samples of his inanity read in his croaky voice.

Bally, my loonytoon friend, I wish I could be to see the look on your face when you are at death's door and realise that your delusions and your candle will not protect you from Kal. :-D

Regards,

K.

Kaljug Jee,

Suppose someone visits you on a day when sun is shining. He suggests you to believe him that sun is shining. Will you start believing him because you received truth through him? Or it is your experience that plays role?

Please do not try to convince me. I am already a confirmed Sikh.

*****

Sikhs with Gur are Gursikhs. They do not follow instructions from others which the true Gurus have never suggested.

Sorry mate, but you are just sitting in cave with a little candle of your own imagining that it is the sun.

No, I don't expect you to follow any instructions - your ego forbids it.

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

RSS Hindus promoting unity between Sikhs and Hindus by denigrating Sikhi to a sect of Hinduism and disrespecting Guru Sahiban, their Sikhi, Sikh Rehat5 Maryadas, and well .. pretty much everything in Sikhi that does not accord with their warped religious and political ideology.

http://www.hindusikhorg.blogspot.com/

It was recently posted on SikhSangat.org, and the mods there have not seen fit to remove the posting yet. Kala Afghana ki Fauj, if you want to do something useful, go argue with them there.

I'm hoping that this has nothing to do with Niddar Singh's HinduSikh website. It would be good to hear that this is not the case from Niddar Singh's students since I have no contact with the man.

Edit: I received a message from one of Niddar Singh's close students that he has no connection with the blog and does not believe that Sikhs are a sect of Hinduism as that site attempts to portray.

Regards,

K.

So be realistic...that is all I am saying. I see too many disappointed kids.

Fateh!

I am being realistic by not believing that a 12oz steak is the difference between being Dorian Yates and Dorian Gray, and by acknowledging that some will never eat meat. I'm not saying that either diet is better, I'm saying that you can succeed with whatever dietary restrictions you place on yourself if you know what you are doing.

If you see disappointed kids who are not going to eat meat, what do you do? Turn away in disgust after they refuse when you tell them to chow down on a couple of chicken breasts, or do you offer them alternative advice? If it's the latter, what advice do you give them?

I see plenty of puny goray kids in my gym who live on a diet of meat yet still remain disapointed with their gains. They are weak because they are lazy, lacking in discipline, and have no idea how to plan a training regimen. Most of them change their routines everytime a new edition of Flex comes out. They don't seem to get that the ridiculously high rep isolation exercises described by the pros in the magazine are impossible for someone who is not juicing, and they are disappointed (and suffering from continuous nasty DOMs) when they don't look like Ronnie Coleman after the 6 week routine.

Help your brothers here out, Singh. What advice would you give to non-carnivorous Sikhs? :-)

K.

Fateh!

To every one else:

Firstly, thanks for your responses, they have been most helpful.

The auntie ji in question is still in chardikala, but it is mostly her family that appears to be going through some turmoil (which is naturally affecting her). Further conversation with Giani Thakur Singh shed a bit more light on the situation. The explanation was that karams in families are intertwined though usually they are not very obviously affected by bhagti done by a family member, but doing concentrated bhagti can grant blessings even to the family members of a devotee by burning away their karams. This appears as suffering because humans are so short-sighted and cannot see past their current existence, but what appears as a curse to a moorakh like me is a blessing from Guru Ji to those concerned.

It was an interesting explanation from Giani Ji, though I confess it's made me a little wary of doing Mul Mantra chalisa without guidance or blessing from a Mahapurush first.

Regards,

K.

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Kaljug Jee!

Quote "You're talking about the goal, I am talking about how to get there."

I feel somebody has adopted a way through that he has achieved sufferings.

The reverend Gurus sing that on the right path all sufferings vanish.

Did the true Gurus ever say that old sufferings sprout when one is doing true Naam Simran?

Quote "Some people have to travel a greater distance to meet The Mangowala than others,"

Sure. But the right direction toward Mangowala should be told first.

Quote "yet we all have to undertake the journey, unless one is the Mangowala Himself."

I wish you best of luck reaching the Mango garden.

Balbir Singh

Fateh!

OK, enough of your horseshit. Your obsession with mangoes was amusing at first, but your egotistical crap about being the only one who knows the true direction or your boasting about having obtained the "true" naam simran is beginning to grate on my nerves.

I'm afraid, Balbir Singh, that you are so deluded that you actually feel that following your advice of sitting on one's ass and waiting for mangoes to drop out of the sky is egotistical nonsense and has nothing to do with Sikhi. The Gurus state that pranayam, yoga, concentration on one point, stilling your mind, or doing countless jap is not enough alone to achive mukhti - this only comes through Gurprasad. However, that does not mean that you do nothing and gurprasad will naturally follow because, like the maybelline adverts say, you're worth it.

Sikhi is not a Semitic religion like Christianity where one only has to ignore all reason and logic and simply convince oneself that some dead man on a stick or some bearded old man in the sky is going to be pleased with you enough that he will let you enter heaven.

All Bhagats had to work for their mukti. Read the biography of any mahan Gursiikh or any Mahapurush - or any spiritually alive human in any religion for that matter, even the Semitic ones - and you will see that they all had to put in the work before their immense bhagti bore fruit and their naam simran began spontaneously forever.

You remind me of the many people who walk into an MMA class having read a few books on "pressure points" and have become so deluded that they feel that they do not have to work out or develop any skills through blood and sweat. In the end, they all get the crap kicked out of them. Alas, where it concerns spiritual matters, the real ass-kicking only happens at the point of death, and by that point it is too late.

Suffering is part of living, Singh; if this were not the case, there would be no incentive, and no need for the Gurus to point out the path to liberation, because mangoes would just spntaneously fall from the skies. The question was whether bhagti can bring about relase of karam before they are due, but you are obviously too ignorant and egotistical to believe that suffering even exists for such a great man as yourself.

Now go eat whatever genetically modified tasteless fruit you've been chewing on all these years and leave the rest of us to learn real Sikhi.

Regards,

K.

Quote " . . . It seems an odd idea to me that more bhagti would somehow equate to more suffering."

But all true Bhagats are singing Ananda in total bliss. It seems they have no time for suffering.

Balbir Singh

Fateh!

You're talking about the goal, I am talking about how to get there. Some people have to travel a greater distance to meet The Mangowala than others, yet we all have to undertake the journey, unless one is the Mangowala Himself.

Regards,

K.

Kalyug veer, your question was already answered in the thread that you opened up where sargun and nirgun upasana was discussed.

Fateh!

From what I could make of your argument, it seemed to suggest that it was only prem that was important. Am I correct in my understanding?

If this is correct, why is worshipping Krishna as the form of Waheguru any different to worshipping Zeus (or Superman for that matter) as a form of Waheguru, since at the end of the day it is only prem bhagti and the upasak's belief that matters? If this is so, what difference is there between worshipping a stone and imagining that it is Akal Purakh?

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

NeoSingh:

From a strictly historical point of view, it's pretty clear that the devas like Indra and Durga are originally nothing more than deities of natural events and places, the Indian cognates to the Greek Zeus and Athena or the Roman Jupiter and Bellona.

Are you saying that worship of any of the deities of any pantheon will grant similar results to worship of Nirguna Parbrahma? If not, and this only applies to the deities of the Hindu mythological pantheon, why do they deserve such an honour?

Regards,

K.

Kaljug,

I don't know if you can contact them but it might be worth asking what they need. Beyond the obvious things, there maybe something that will mean a great deal to them ... I don't know maybe something like a fridge, or something.

Just some thoughts.

Fateh, veer ji!

I will do that as well, but the purpose was really just to send some things for the children there that they would appreciate and not necessarily need. Sometimes it is just nice to receive a nice letter and a few goodies that you might not otherwise even think of having, especially for kids.

Thanks for the link, veera. I will send them an email and ask if there is anything in particular that the home needs.

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

There is a friend of the family who was asked to do Mul Mantra chalisa (125,000 Mul Mantra in 40 days) by Giani Thakur Singh when Giani Ji was visiting the UK. The person involved has been doing 32 malay per day and has experienced a lot of chaos manifest in their lives. When this person consulted Giani Thakur Singh, he described this chaos as old karma being brought up abd burned away due to the power of the tapas.

Has anyone else here heard of such a thing? I'm not sure that it is not just pure bad luck. It seems an odd idea to me that more bhagti would somehow equate to more suffering.

Your advice would be much appreciated, sangat jio.

Regards,

K.

(PS. No, I'm not talking about myself. I'm not blessed enough with the time or the piar or discipline to do more than the bare minimum most days.)

He supplements heavily. Thats my point.

And so do his peers on the MMA circuit. My point was you can be a vegetarian and still compete with meateaters. It's not like eating a steak now and again is going to have a profound effect on one's strength and endurance.

I get annoyed and frustrated saying our kids being pushed around. They go to the gym, and they don't get results. They retreat into their little groups and think Shastars are the answer. They are still weak.

Training and strength builds up confidence. I want to see all Sikh youth confident, but at the same time realistic

Singh, it sounds like we all want the same thing, so why place your emphasis on flesh when you know that some Sikhs will never eat meat, especially if they have already taken amrit from a jatha that forbids it? Why not just share your training expertise and your knowledge of nutrition and supplementation with everyone here, whether they eat meat or not?

K.

Fateh!

Mac Danzig (MMA guy) is a vegan and does pretty well in his sport.

There's a powerlifting guy on the veganfitness.net board that totals over 1500lbs at 242lbs.

Tiffany Croker is a vegetarian powerlifter who was twice under 18 British powerlifting champion & Britains strongest teenager.

Good info here: http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/links.htm

Nice little FAQ on vegetarian bodybuilding: http://www.geocities.com/alanmcclure3/index.html

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

Do any of you who are in the UK want to send any gifts or unwanted clean clothes to this home as seva?

I shall be sending toys, clothes, and books next week, and if you would like to send something small I can pop it in the same box.

Any ideas as to what we can send them would be appreciated also. I would be pretty cool if you wrote a letter, or just a brief note, addressed to the Bibi and to the children there, just to let them know that their brothers and sisters in other countries are thinking of them.

Regards,

K.

dtf bookstore, you can order it from their site if you're not in birmingham

Fateh!

Is this the one you are talking about:

http://www.dtfbooks.com/Pages/ShowProductD...p?pID=MjAwMQ==#

Sadly, they didn't have the Japji Sahib teeka. Do you know if it is available online or in the UK to purchase?

Ta,

K.

i don't see any kesh in your display picture either. Maybe the Sikh fell off the tractor??

Funny, it sent me the same message.

K.

You know the more of the Dasam Granth I read and understand the more I like it. That being said I found this Hukum nama on the SS site: If genuine and accurately translated, it clearly stipulates that Sikhs are not to put Dasam Granth at the same level as Shri Guru Granth Sahib in terms of parkaash.

Fateh!

I guarantee that if you read Dasam Granth yourself in the original Braj and Punjabi (and Zafarnamah in Persian), any doubts that you have as to whether the Granth contradicts Sri Guru Granth Sahib will disappear, and you will be able to discern the reason for Dasam Granth being written by experiencing the states of mind evoked by the imagery and rhythm in the case of the bir ras bania, and by appreciating the moral imparted in the more didactic bania like Charitropakhyan.

K.

Fateh!

Some of you may find Rupert Snell's book The Hindi Classical Tradition: A Braj Bhasa Reader an interesting read. It is helpful in understanding the language of Dasam Granth so that you don't have to rely on other people's translations.

Most of it is in English transliteration, but it is helpful for you to learn Devanagari script.

Rupert Snell is the same guy who wrote the Teach Yourself Hindi book, so he has former experience of language teaching which makes his book on Braj Bhasa a fairly straightforward read. However, the book is not primarily a teach yourself Braj Bhasa book, but it goes into some depth as to how Braj differs from regular Hindi.

If you work through his book on Hindi, then read his Braj Bhasa book, you should find the language of Dasam Granth much easier to understand.

The book is available direct from the publisher Routledge or from amazon.

Regards,

K.

Feel free to enlighten yourself. Kalyug, tell Inder Singh to come have live talk in Toronto and we will see who wins. We are going to set up debate with Davinder Singh in short time. We will post video from debate and everyone can see who is speaking truth and who is speaking rubbish. Inder Singh can come to debate and help out Davinder Singh.

Blah blah blah.

And when your pathetic excuse for an argument is torn to shreds, where will you run next? "Oh, I'd go on another recorded video debate but I'm just really busy. I'm not ging to bother unless I'm on prime time television this time and I have my own dressing room and personal entourage." 'Fess up, this is all just a stunt to start off your bollywood career as the village idiot in Punjabi films, isn't it?

Everyone has already seen who is speaking truth, and it certainly isn't you.

K.

Guys just passing by..I am not taking sides just try to post both sides of the story..this bibi was invited to one of the radio stations in vancouver where she mentione two things i thought i mention- first this lecture was close to 2 hrs long she belives somebody took her lecture out of context..second thing is this video was shot year half ago..why is it coming out now?

So in what context did she make the remarks in the video above?

Regards,

K.

Naastik KA chela blog.

Nothing from these heretic, rude, manmati people is remotely funny.

What they say about Singh2/Inder Singh the blog is disgusting, especially if as they say, Bhai Sahib is a syaana/bajurg.

God only knows how they treat their own parents.

Fakes.

Fateh.

Yeah, Kala Afghani ki fauj and this kaurkhalsaraj both need thappar. This fauj guy vomits his nonsense here and after getting his ass handed to him by singh2, goes on to that blog to tell them how great he did in his debate with singh2. I suppose he was taking time out of his busy television career. I hear he had a part on CNN News as a random Indian who for some reason has to stand behind the news reporter and look right into the camera while smiling broadly and looking slightly lost.

This kaurkhalsaraj doesn't understand enough Punjabi to make out what what this Kamlee woman is saying but feels she is qualified enough to comment on the Charaitars and Hikayats from Dasam Granth.

Anyway, this Kamlee's email is kam1968@hotmail.com. She is General Secretary of Indian Buddhist Society of Vancouver. Is there some kind of brain drain going on in Canada that I'm not aware of? First there were communists disguised as Sikhs in the form of singhsabha Canada, now we have an ignorant shrieking witch disguised as ... well, an ignorant shrieking witch. May God have mercy on that banshee's husband.

K.

Kalyug veer,

In order to understand leela of avtar, one needs to concept of avtar from bhai gurdas ji varan, bhat swaies and sri dasam granth. Akaal Purkh transcendent its quality/attributes into sargun avtar based on the need of time (listen to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale discussion with me on this under topic of week forum). Avtar fulfill their duties and go back to akaal purkh respective on each yugas, followers understand their message when they initially transcendent into this earth. But as time goes by that messages gets clouded by dubta/sansa/doubts and misinterpreted and turned into empty ritual.

Lets look at the conditions of both dharams - islam and hinduism around sri guru gobind singh ji time- these dharam followers start idolizing their prophets instead of focusing on the prophets message they start bickering among each other who's prophet is better? and started idolizing their prophets mind you this happens at sikh dharam as well which is sad, tat khalsa mentality are guilty of this.. anyway coming back to the point, around that time, this was a condition of the people who represented hinduism and islam. Guru maharaj looking at the sad state of people he denounced this idolizing of devi's/devta's and hari avtars like krishan/ram by reciting this tuk - Main Na Ganesha pritham maniyoo Kishan bishan kabhoo na Dhiayoo Kaan sune pehchan na tin ko Liv laagi mori pag unso" - I don't worship deities Krishna,Ganesha or Bishan

I have heard about them but do not recognize them. My saviour is One God, the almighty.

Now this is very important in the same sri dasam granth sahib bani- sri guru gobind singh ji warns his Sikhs too regarding this of this grave danger that many hindus and Muslims fell into idolizing their prophet, he warned his sikhs by also reciting the tuk - aad ant eka avtara sohi sumjaieo guru hamera || that my guru is vahiguroo himself but when you look at sri guru gobind singh ji sahib life, his father was sri guru tegh bahudar sahib ji was his gyan data guru despite of that he said my guru is vahiguroo himself so that sikhs dont go astry idolizing the deh or avtars. not only that in bachitar natak itself sri guru gobind singh ji went far as saying- those who call me god will burn in hell, one shouldn't take this tuk literally nor one should take that tuk as form of showing nirmata, guru ji had very clear message behind this, we should try to understand what guru ji is saying- guru ji again warning his sikhs not to idolize me but focus on my message- shabad guru. Sri guru gobind singh ji is warning his sikhs not fo fall for this

Also to further reinforce my point, guru ji is avtar of vahiguroo we all agree so as krishan and ram. To future reinforce my point that krishan maharaj and ram chandar ji and all other hindu gods were avtars of vahiguroo.. sri guru gobind singh ji mentions this tuk in sri dasam granth sahib:

nirgun vahiguroo actualy transcedent in form of avtar in satyug/dvapar/treta from beginning of avtars birth to give gyan and benefit human kind we seem to ignore bhai gurdas ji varan and sri dasam patsah bachan in sri dasam granth sahib :

Jab Jab Arsat Hot Sansara ||

Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara He said in sri dasam bani again-

Then Bhai gurdas ji mentions: Jag Jag Satgur Dharie Avatari ||

In each age, the true guru will take avtar - nirgun vahiguroo transcedent itself into avtar.

Sri Guru gobind singh ji was very blunt in his message in his rachna- sri dasam guru granth sahib but that shouldn't be taken as form of disrespect to hindu gods but an reality of sargun avtars(which includes him as well). Here is another one

Ek Shiv bhai ek gyaie ek pher paie ram chandar kai avtar bhi anek hai ... (Sri Akaal Ustat)

He is telling us the reality of avtarhood that we(avtars) come go give the message of vahiguroo, its very important to follow the message not idolize the messenger because avtars bodies were also made of shud satogun still -5 elements..one day they have to transcendent back to where they came from.

In essence, guru ji never criticized the krishan or ram he criticized the people who idolized them in above manner.

Anyway coming back to the topic, title shouldn't be gurmat and gita. The correct title suitable for this type of thread should be- is tatgyan in sri guru granth sahib and bhagvad gita is it same? and quotes from sri guru granth sahib ji and gita should be provided to prove or prove otherwise.

Fateh!

I have lots of love and respect for him, but I'm not sure whether Sant Jagjit Singh's views on Krishna are informed by Gurbani or his deep understanding of Vedant.

I see lots of criticism of Krishan and Rama in Dasam Granth in particular, but also in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but then I may just be interpreting at a surface level and not understanding the deeper arth.

How do you explain the injunction against not worshipping avatars and Krishan's claim in Bhagavad Gita that he himself is Akal Purakh and to be worshipped as the Supreme Being. If he was avatar of Waheguru, and therefore infallible (?), why would he ask his devotees to worship himself as the Supreme Being as he does in Bhagavad Gita?

Why would the Gurus specifically say that these avatars are NOT Akal, but then ask Sikhs to respect them as being the form of Waheguru despite them having failed to direct their disciples to worship Akal and not themselves?

Also, I'm not so sure whether your likening Guru Nanak Gobind to an avatar like Krishna is accurate according to Sikh teachings. As far as I'm aware, Guru Nanak is pooran Guru Avatar and as such is greater than any of these previous avatars of Hindu devatas.

Regards,

K.