Kaljug

can someone from here post on sikhsangat to those who like to spread rumors like- ravidasa will attack darbar sahib or burnt sri guru granth sahib ji or 3 singhs were killed without any source to hold off and think before typing such stuff. Even though intentions might be good, but all this is doing breading more hatred among both parties, youths. Please ask them provide sources of any kind of blunt news they post, they are not doing any good, they are adding more fuel to the fire which is totally unneeded at this moment.

Fateh, Veer ji!

The 3 dead Singhs were reported in punjabnewsonline.com. It's the only source for it so far that I have seen.

I will relay your message though.

K.

Fateh!

Akal Takht Jathedar appeals for peace:

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/16831/38/

Post 130 on the sikhsangat.com thread about this situation has some information on this dead Ravidasi Sant from SunnySinghDoad:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...4491&st=120

Scroll down to post 130.

There are uncomfirmed rumours of a saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib being set alight in Jalandhar. If true, and the crime was committed by one of this Sant's followers, it is likely to create a permanent rift between mainstream Sikhs and Ravidasi Sikhs. I hope it's not the case.

Perhaps I am being a paranoid fool, but I can't help but think that this was planned by some nefarious people to draw attention away from commemorating 1984.

Regards,

K,

Fateh!

By the by, not all of the people at rediff.com who are accusing the Congress party of playing an underhand role in the roubles are Sikhs. Whether the accusations are true are not, no one knows yet.

There is an interesting perspective on sikhsangat.com by a poster called ghorandar who I believe is posting from Punjab.

Regards,

K.

Babbar Khalsa Condemns killing of Sant Rama Nand:

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/16830/38/

Neo,

I believe that the head of a Ravidas dera (Gaddi-Nishan) is considered a guru, but on their websites and such they are always referred to as Sant. Some European papers have confused the issue by referring to the dead Ravidasi Sant as Shri Guru Ravidas Sabha.

The rumour is that this guy sat level with the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and asked people to matha tek to him. If that's the case, I'm not sure why the Sikhs could not sit this guy down and explain that this is disrespectful. I suppose we will just have to wait for things to calm down and for the full facts to come out.

If you read many of the discussion forums from Indian newspapers (e.g., rediff.com), many people believe that the violence is being fomented by Congress-paid goondas to solidify their rule in Punjab.

Regards,

K.

Fateh!

I would be very surprised if these Sikhs turn out to be educated chardikala Amritdhari Sikhs. How ignorant do you have to be to do this kind of thing so close to the 25th year anniversary of operation bluestar?

So far I've heard claims that the ones responsible are "high caste fundamentalist Sikhs", chardikala Sikhs who are avenging some beadbi, that this is a family matter gone wrong, and that they are Indian government agents.

It's going to be interesting to hear what they have to say when the smoke has cleared.

Well done to the Ravidasis in Punjab who are going round waving swords and setting fire to cars before anyone has figured out what is actually going on. Blowing stuff up is a great way to solve crimes.

Regards,

K.

Jailed Islamic Extremists Want Ban on Women Prison Officers:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2...15875-21384258/

They also want prison authorities to build a mosque in there so they don't have to pray with unbelievers in the multifath chapel.

The arrogance and gall of these Muslims never ceases to amaze me.

Edit: More anti-dhimmitude, this time from the US:

Restaurant to sell alcohol despite Muslim efforts to stop this:

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/may/08/h...mosque-concern/

Regards,

K.

And of course Ana Moura:

best fado voice after Amalia Rodrigues.

Muito boa. Still not as good as the real thing though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmkpDZV9t84...feature=related

K.

What an idiot. He should have gone out with the priest's daughter. That would have been funnier.More drama

That is not a sacrifice he was prepared to make, even for his sibling, as the daughter of the Pandit looks like a cross between Kali Mata and well-fed holy cow.

K.

Hello, may be this news is old just came across with this new recently, it's disgusting man, more sickening to see responses by youths on sikhsangat. Anyway here is the link :

Sikh Revenges hindu preist's secret wedding.

To those who support this action, lets turns table around if hindu guy revenges Sikh priest's secret wedding and petrol bombed thi sikh gyani house with kids, would you have supported this action? And please don't tell me this does not happen in the panth. It's time to people get off this attitude, how everyone is ought to get poor Sikhs. Get a broom and do some house cleaning before beating priest and petrol bombing houses of other religions...totally sickening.

and in another note, whats with youths and their obsession with petrol bombs in UK? Here in Canada, if someone's even talks about petrol bomb let alone searching online to make it, you get choppers and swat team at your door ready to take you out...Mi-5 intelligence should be alarmed at this...rage has been cause for many senseless violence costing innocent people's life, fire didn't destroy the house but clearly intent was to burn the whole house down regardless if there is any civilian causalities or not living in the house.

Am i the only one outrage by this?

I don't support it, but I understand their actions which are rooted in Punjabi notions of izzat rather than in the example of Sikhi. And yes, if the gyani conducted the wedding in secret in the full knowledge that the parents were unaware of the marriage, I would not be surprised if the same thing happened to his house.

The family doesn't live too far away from me, and the telegraph does not explain how the situation has developed over a period of time, nor does it explain the role played by the girl's so-called friends.

I feel that the Canadian sangat does not have the problem of grooming of young girls, usually by predatory Muslim males and sometimes facilitated through Muslim women, that we have in the UK, so it may be hard for some of you to understand the outrage and frustration that young Sikh brothers feel when one of their Sikh sisters leaves her family and abandons her religion. I'm not saying that this is the case in this particular situation, but it's common enough here to cause suspicion and anger in many.

Regards,

K.

Read the whole pangati – not focus on the word ਦੀਖਿਆ alone. We are talking about Gurus Sikhiya here, not just any Sikhya – with Guru’s Sikhiya (and acceptance-practice of it)– naam is contained and obtained. To say ‘Gurus teaching’ is not to understate anything – in fact, by adding the word Guru before Dhikiya – all the aforementioned interpretations cannot do justice – Guru Granth is Gurus Dhikiya – he who accepts it (ਲੈ) - ਸਿਖਿ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ||

Fateh, Veer ji.

It's not about understating anything, Veer ji, the etymology was provided in the hopes that people may understand that 'teaching' here is more profound than the English word may be able express. This only adds to the depth of meaning when we say 'Gurus teaching'.

But yeah, I agree with your message. :-)

K.

Actually, every single culture in the world has a deep tradition of Jadu (kala) - and rightly being extremely paranoid of it. In fact, I recall hearing that there was a killing spree (witch hunt) in Western Africa a few weeks ago due to this very paranoia. Catholic witch hunts in Europe and the infamous ones in America occured due to paranoia.

Jadu is still rampant in Russia, Central Asia, Australaisa, Africa, Americas, Eastern Europe and many parts of Western Europe (although it not seen in some countries here).

It is however seen at its worst in Hinud and Muslim communities across South Asia and Indonesia though.

Yep. Pretty much every culture except the modern West has a belief in witchcraft. The real thing is quite rare though, and many take advantage of this belief in witchcraft for their own nefarious ends. In fact, in the last few days the Spanish authorities arrested a Nigerian people-trafficking gang who were using the threat of magical punishment to prevent the women they were selling into prostitution from escaping. See here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8063205.stm

In the majority of cases, it's the belief in witchcraft which causes the victim to expire rather than any real power that the witch claims to have. One might run into a real witch one day, but one may also be struck by lightning - neither are really worth worrying about, and in the case of the former, one's disbelief in witchcraft may actually act as a form of protection.

In the case of the real thing, there is the Baba Wadbhag Singh Dera (after you've ruled out organic and psychiatric causes).

K.

Amardeep,

ਦੀਖਿਆ - is a variation of the Sanskrit word 'deeksha' which literally translates to 'teaching'.

ਗੁਰ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਲੈ ਸਿਖਿ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ।

My translation of this pangati is:

Gurus teaching (he who) takes and learns, Sikh (he is) called.

Feel free to correct the above.

Yes, that's the broad meaning of the term, but diksha in Indian religions refers specifically to a ritual of initiation during which a shishya (disciple) is empowered by his diksha guru with mantras, rituals and secrets specific to a particular deity or cult. In its ideal and perfect form, diksha invests the shishya with the full powers of his guru, and the guru takes on the karma of his shishya. That's why there is such respect for one's guru in Indian religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism (and of course in Sikhi) - because shishya and diksha guru are considered inseparable. Deekhia holds much more meaning than the English translation to "teaching" can ever hope to convey.

K.

That's true. Such people believe in science not Sikhi. In fact I've seen Sikhs who will choose science over Sikhi where ever science contradicts Sikhi. These types of people do not even believe in the power of Naam Simran, Gurbani or Ardas since the God they believe in is a very passive God who does not interfere in his creation or help his Sikhs.

Fateh!

Then again, I've met Punjabis who blame black magic for everything from why their husbands can't stop drinking to not being as rich as the Singh down the road. (They, oddly enough, are the first one's to visit Tantric Babas to cast curses on people who cross them.) Indians are a superstitious lot, and it's probably for the best that mainstream Sikhi seems to promote the idea of the non-existence of the supernatural. Perhaps it will prevent an Aunty ji from getting fleeced by a spiritual conman.

K.

Udasis belive the Gurus to be incarnations of Vishnu whereas the Nirmalas say he is the incarnation of Akal Purakh etc

By the way, Vishnu is believed to be another name for Nirguna Brahman in some schools of Indian philosophy (e.g., Dvait Vedanta) so the Udasis may be saying the same thing as the Nirmalas, depending upon what school of philosophy they follow.

K.

Most Sikhs think Excorsism is anti-sikh theses days. They believe demonic spirits are fictitious. What the mainstream needs to understand that excorsism is normal and can help them and then that person whos possessed can get on with his life without being bothered by theses demonic spirits. I wish people knew about Baba Vadbhag Singh.

Fateh!

I think this is due to the fact that Sikhi places such a strong emphasis on worship of Nirgun Brahman and avoiding anything that smacks of superstition. Some Sikhs take this so far that they do not believe in avataars, bhoot-pret, miracles, mantra jantra and so on (despite the fact that they are mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib and in puraatan granths) because they are not "logical" or "scientific". In fact, when I talk to such Singhs, I'm never quite sure that they actually believe in God.

Regards,

K.

I think there is a quote in the vaars that says the people became sikhs of Guru Nanak by taking amrit at his feet... some people refer to this as saying you can't be a sikh without baptism from the Guru..

http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?word...=3&pauri=11

Fateh!

Nirmalay still take charan amrit from their Vidya Gurdev. I'm sure the Udasis do the same. Not so sure of the Sevapanthis.

K.

Amardeep Singh,

Where did you find the English translation of Charitropakhyan? Is it in book form or is it online somewhere? I've got Surindar Singh Kohli's translation of Dasam Granth but it does not contain Charitropakhyan or the Hikayats, nor do any of the other English translations I've come across.

Also, is the raja in the story supposed to be Guru Ji?

Regards,

K.

so then for gristi sikhs, should they try to control their kaam or what

Yes, by channelling desire through conjugal union with your other half, not by trying to destroy the urge altogether.

K.

Randip Singh,

This is the part of the essay to which I was referring:

It is not fair to presume that Jhatka of goat is a sacrificial act at Hazur Sahib and other Unit Gurdwaras of the Deccani Sikhs. Since thousands of years, it is a custom of warriors of India to put the Tilak of blood to their weaponry on the occasion of Dashara and Holi. In these Gurdwaras, the tilak of blood is put to the weapons, not to Guru Granth Sahib or any other idol or photograph. Though it is not in consonance with Sikh philosophy, like many other practices that have crept into the Sikh way of life, this too requires sane intervention so that it can be stopped. Mere condemnation ad nauseam will not help stopping it.

It is important that we see things objectively and rationally. From the point of view of Sikh image and Sikh practice, this has to be stopped, but this should be bracketed with many other practices and rituals which require serious steps. But there are so many rituals and festivals of other religions which are Celebration of the New Year of the Christian Era, Sammat new month –Sangrand and Full moon day –Pooranmashi. Are these all not anti-Sikh practices?

I've read the essay again with a little more care and I believe what the author is saying (in the first paragraph) is that the practice of shastar-tilak is what the he wants stopped, not the tradition of jhatka, as I had originally thought. The annointing of weapons with blood may have been a traditional Kshtatriya practice but the author believes that this may be an anti-Sikh practice.

The ambiguity is in the second paragraph where he compares this ritual to the celebration by Sikhs of traditionally auspicious occasions like Sangrand and Puranmashi. The message in this paragraph seems to be that if khoon da tilak is abandoned as a tradition, then so should these festivals. Given that there seems to be little controversy regarding celebrating sangraand and puranmashi (there are usually special programmes in many gurdwaras on these these dates), I'm not sure whether the author seriously believes that all of these things are wrong, or whether he is suggesting the acceptance of khoon da tilak as a tradition much like sangraand and puranmashi.

Regards,

K.

Its all that Hindu Phobia mate

Personally I'm just waiting for some jatha to declare the use of the number zero by Sikhs (introduced by early Hindus to the rest of the world) as being bamanvaad.

K.

Fateh jio!

Anyone here planning to go this event?

K.

We can learn quite a bit from mahapursh's sakhiya above but we should also focus on their teachings that bairaag/tyaag comes from within. We should also keep in mind, that there are three types of mahapursh- daane/maryada purshutam, divane and mastane. So there is no set rule for people who to deal with maya of daily life, because its meant to be dealt with case to case basis as everyone is at different level of surti.

Fateh, Veer ji.

I don't think it is advisable to try to apply a brahmachari mahapurush's practice of mental continence unless one is committed to lifelong celibacy. If you harbour even the smallest hope of being married (in which case you will still have need of a healthy libido), the attempt to negate the sexual urge this way will just make it all the more stronger because, at a subconscious level at least, you know that you do not really want it to disappear.

K.

Why not make Bibian dress themselves in black from head to toe, with maybe a small hole or two from which to see, so that they don't fall over and accidentally touch a Singh? Of course, you would also have to make every non-Sikh woman dress in the same way because a Singh may experience impure thoughts by looking at them. Come to think of it, this problem wouldn't even exist if women were somehow just not allowed.

Repression does not work, people, it just makes a very natural urge manifest in a very unnatural and much more powerful way. Have you ever read about the Victorian era in England? These people spent so much time and effort trying to hide from the sexual urge that eventually they would have to wrap cloth around the legs of their grand pianos because they resembled the uncovered legs of a woman. Yes, you read that right: grown men were reduced to paroxysms of pure prurience by the sight of well-curved furniture. It's no accident that Freud developed his theories of sexual neuroses at this time in history.

The only thing you can really do is teach your kids that sex is a normal human function and to stop making it such a big deal. There's nothing particularly mysterious about it - it's just nature's way of making sure that we pass on our genes to the next generation. Sexual desire is a sign that it might be a good idea to get married some time soon as, in terms of Sikhi and grist jeevan, this is the institution in which it is safe to express and explore, and perhaps one day tame, these urges.

Have you ever seen a National Geographic documentary on African or Amazonian tribes? If so, then you have probably seen topless or semi-clad tribeswomen walking around doing their chores with the tribesmen walking among them and not batting an eyelash at their practical nudity. The reason is that they realise gender differences are as natural as rain and sunshine and pay about as much attention to them.

K.

Fateh!

Maybe I am being dense, but I'm not sure what the author is saying.

He mentions that jhatka is an ancient Indian warrior tradition, that the jhatka practised at Hazur Sahib is not a form of animal sacrifice, that there is evidence for meat being served in langar in the time of the Gurus, that there is no evidence for a ban on eating meat (except halal meat) - and yet he believes that jhatka should be stopped. Why?

K.

Fateh!

Maybe I am being dense, but I'm not sure what the author is saying.

He mentions that jhatka is an ancient Indian warrior tradition, that the jhatka practised at Hazur Sahib is not a form of animal sacrifice, that there is evidence for meat being served in langar in the time of the Gurus, that there is no evidence for a ban on eating meat (except halal meat) - and yet he believes that jhatka should be stopped. Why?

K.