Kaljug

Has anyone read any of his books? i had come across one of his books in the book shop which when i skimmed through seemed pretty interesting. Though there was nothing about him in the books his linage or where he as learnt from. So maybe a fraud???

here is his site

http://www.hahalung.com/

if anyone can find torrents of his books that would be good to

Haha Lung is another pseudonym of Ashida Kim/Chris Hunter, a well known fake.

K.

Thanks for the replies.

No I have not taken Amrit. I feel that would be a bit premature since I dont even speak punjabi or read gurmukhi (sp?) I have gone to great lengths to learn about the religion. Try to pray japji sahid every morning... etc.

The interracial marriages are not a big deal at all where I live (out west). I would say I see like 10 a day, so its not a big deal because of that.

I am very used to taking flack for dating a punjabi girl and dealing with overprotective punjabi guys. I am just surprised that the raw hate I experience at Gurdwara isn't going away. It also bothers me that when my fiance used to go with me to the catholic church... she experienced absolutely nothing but open arms and friendliness. For a while I just tried to tell myself I was making mountains out of molehills, but other people besides me have noticed it.

The community aspect of religion is very important. I realize this now. How am I supposed to be a sikh, if like 90% of sikhs hate me because I took one of their own. Will my kids be outcast all their life because they are half white? If thats the case what the hell is the point of raising them sikh?

Chatanga that is exactly what I wanted to hear. Maybe when I leave this town to set up practice back east the gurdwara there will be more accepting.

Thanks for replies

-W

What gurdwara do you go to? I've never seen anything like that happen in a gurdwara. Even in Amritsar, the worst that might happen to a gora is that curious people might approach you and ask questions about who you are, and what brought you to Harimandir Sahib, and whether you know their grandson Chintu who also lives in London "village".

You may find such problems disappearing once you marry the girl. Dating is still seen as a verboten thing in the Punjabi community.

K.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

K.

K.

Though I dont promote prostitution ,the chapter on the sikh state and brothels is very interesting on the point of government.

Where I live for many years they allowed the sale of drugs in a certain place in the capital. For many years drug abuse was limited to this part of town only. When a new government was elected, they forbade the selling of drugs and cracked down on the streets and started surveiling it . What happend in the next few years was that drugselling and abuse spread all over the country because there was no one place where it was allowed where people would then go to do their business.

Analytics now say that the increasing abuse of drugs in areas that were not harmed before is because of the governments no tolerance for drugs, which led it to spread all over the country. We have had gang fights for 2 years now because gangs wants to control the market.

IN the same way prem sumarag says its best to limit the use of brothels to certain places, so that adultary does not take place in the country as a whole hereby corrupting society

Yeah, I had raised eyebrows reading that also. The author of PS doesn't promote prostitution either, he simply realised that the "oldest profession in the world" isn't going anywhere. It just goes to show how forward thinking the level of politics was at that time.

On the subject of drugs, see Portugal's success story after it decriminalised drugs.

I wonder how many Sikhs today could endorse such revolutionary ideas to tackle social ills like drugs and prostitution without a backlash from the rehat police.

K.

Veer, that source seems like a typical Christian American reaction to the ever growing Sufi popularity in the US (and worldwide for that matter).

If I saw anything but a totally negative and one sided demonisation of Sufism (Islam), I may have taken it just a little more seriously.

Baba Farid Ji was of the same Chisti order your American article demonises. There are said to be tens of millions of followers of Baba Farids in China, Africa, Arabia, Pakistan and not to mention India.

This is the danger when we try and interpret worldy hate, propoganda, history, interpretation and personal bias in confliction with our own faith, of which Baba Farid Ji Maharaj is an integral part.

Rather than reading one sided reactionery propoganda on Sufis, I would highly recommend reading Sufi readings, just as our very own Seva Panthi Sampryada used to do.

With due respect, your response is the typical dhimmi attitude of "Islam means Peace and all evidence to the contrary is Islamophobia!". Did you even read the Sufi quotes IN THEIR OWN WORDS about jihad against the unbelievers? How can you possibly dismiss as a typical Christian American reaction this proof of the same old jihad threats in Sufi writings?

Your precious Chisti order today teaches that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was nothing but a Muslim follower of Sheikh Farid. For all your pro-Sufi talk, it is clear that they have no such respect for Sikhi. Sure, your Sufi mate Jelaluddin Abdul may speak highly of "Hadrat Nanak" but he still has in his heart the same contempt for non-Muslims as your average Talibani sullah.

Edit: Here's the thing that you are not getting: it DOES NOT MATTER how pretty the words that some Sufi spouts at you, if he still believes that actions of a child-molesting, murdering rapist are divinely approved, if he teaches that such things are A OK because that it what it says in the Quran, then he is a malechh pure and simple. He can dhikr as much as he likes, talk about fana and nafs till hell freezes over, but the moment he teaches anti-semitism and sexual slavery as actions sanctioned by God, he is going straight to narak.

K.

I don't expect you to take this on board judging by your one sided 2 minute Sufi research, so again, I choose to digress.

Veera, you need to stop jumping to conclusions about another's lack of study simply because their views do not accord with your own beliefs.

If you like, I can supply you with a number of texts that deal with the Sufi relationship with jihad, but given that I've recommended such books in the past and it is clear that you and others have not even bothered to look at them, being comfortable with the PC version of Islamic history and a comfy state of ignorance, I'm sticking to providing short essays (such as the one above) which have plenty of sources that those who are interested can look into themselves.

K.

See here for the historical links between Sufi orders and jihad. To imagine that the Sufis are the enlightened and peaceful adherents of an enlightened Islam is historically false.

K.

dharmic islam is different from rajneetik islam. dharmic islam, such as what some mystics have followed, involved ignoring aspects of rajneetic islam which are taught by koran, is it not?

This distinction does not exist in Islam. Even the majority of Sufis teach that one must adhere to Sharia first before engaging in mystical practices. Also, the fact that Sufis do not engage in collecting jizyah and looking behind rocks for jews to kill does not mean that they do not believe such things to be acceptable.

K.

Shaheediyan:

Firstly, Islam was spread in India via the sword, not marauding hordes of long-haired Sufi hippies carryinhg flowers and copies of the Quran in their hand. Seriously, what hope do you have of seeing Islam for what it is when you cannot even read history without liberating yourself first from political correctness and Islamic propaganda?

Secondly, those practices which make the Sufis great are commonly found in every religion. Most of their practices are identical to Christian quietism and some of the more visionary practices are clearly derived from Jewish Merkabah and Hechalot mysticism with a healthy dose of Hellinstic thinking thrown in. Hell, they even have a little kundalini yoga from India thrown in for that extra spicy kick.

At the end of the day, what makes them Muslims is their rigid adherence to Sharia and the belief that everything that Mohammed did was by definition perfect - regardless of how revolting and reprehensible his acts might seem to reason. I do not care how neat and lofty-sounding Sufi teachings sound, the fact of the matter is that if they cannot clearly say that child molestation, assassination, murder of non-Muslims, genocide of Jewish tribes, rape, the keeping of women as sexual slaves, the robbing of caravans - all things that Mohammed engaged in and all things that are encouraged for Muslims in the Quran - are completely wrong and morally reprehensible, then they are just a bunch of malechh spinning themselves into greater depths of stupidity.

Thirdly, sure, given that the hadiths record everything about Mohammed down to what he liked to eat at breakfast and his irrational hate towards gecko lizards (he said that the gecko lizard was an infidel and an enemy of the believers!), it might be possible to trace Sufi terminology back to Mo. But that's not the point, is it? The point is that the must disgusting acts of depravity and evil can be traced back to Mo also in the same hadiths, but Muslims are incapable of doing the honest thing and saying that these things were wrong and that no Muslim should ever engage in such things.

K.

they followed the teachings and were great. would Sufis not say they follow Allah, the Koran and Islam?

Did they or did they not follow the teachings I mentioned above? Precisely which Islamic teachings did they follow that made them great? Would you still consider these people great if they went around, or simply encouraged, slaughtering idolaters and owning sex slaves (both Quranically inspired pastimes)?

Your average member of al-Qaeda or the Taliban also say they follow Allah, the Koran, and Islam - and they have plenty of scriptural backing for their barbaric practices. Are they great also? If not, doesn't this suggest to you that "greatness" is something independent of Islamic teachings?

did the Shia Emporers our Gurus supported impose Jizyah? why did our Gurus go so far and offer so much help for such people to get the throne?

I don't know why the Gurus did anything. Do you? Do you truly believe the Gurus supported the discriminatory practice of jizyah?

conversely islam is being purged of Sufism and this is a great shame. some are using this purging as an opportunity to malign entirety of islam and this is also a great shame.

You do realise that Sufism is a sect within Islam and is not a generally accepted interpretation of Islam, right? Islam was around a long time before the Sufis emerged to civilise the barbarism of the Quran and to give it a spiritual dimension.

when time comes for malechh to be destroyed that does not simply mean all muslims it means those who do not see God or put their faith into true practise.

I'd say a malechh is anyone who practices what the Quran preaches. If there are Muslims out there who do serious bhakti and who reject the more reprehensible teachings of the quran, and who acknowledge that Mohammed was a seriously flawed being whose example should not be emulated, then I am happy that they have chosen true greatness over insanity. Unfortunately, they would be considered infidels and apostates by the Quran's standards and by the majority of Muslims.

K.

This one makes perfect sense lest you piss all over the place!

LOL, it's pretty much impossible to do hence it's redundant advice.

K.

Ironic since Hitler borrowed many ideas for National Socialism from the Indian subcontinent, does this mean those ideals should be called Nazi?

i highly doubt Sheikh Fareed or Bhikhan or other Sufis were great despite the tenets of Islam. nor in the case of many Shia Emporers. Its doubtful they were simply druggies, waivering mystics or worldly wise and much more likely they had a bank of spiritual knowledge else our Gurus would not have supported them.

The Indian Subcontinent is not Sikhi. FYI, Hitler also thought highly of Mohammed, and it is not difficult to see why when you compare their philosophies of a super race, their hatred of the jews, and their complete disregard for human life.

Had Sheikh Fareed or Bhikan followed the advice in the Quran to force non-Muslims to pay jizyah or to kill them, to compel others to accept Islam, to keep women as slaves, to slay idolaters, etc etc, would they still be great? Or are they great because they chose not to follow these Islamic teachings?

K.

very true kaljug veer ji , there is always some or the other influence, if u ever been to Kolkata there is a are where migrated chinese live , its known as china town. The population also sets up Durga Puja pandals during Navraate and the parshaad offerred is fried rice, noodles (yummyyyyyyy !!! ).

there are various temples of dieties in india specifically in rajasthan where tobacco is offered.

I came across certain commnuties of rajasthan where smoking is a must !

they cannot be a non smoker community. the elders offer beedis to the younger generation.

Interestingly enough I've also seen an image of Kaal Bhairav on the Ghuede (Lord of Death) altar of a Mambo, a Vodoun priestess. Cultural syncretism is neat.

K.

The bride groom should wear gold ankle chains? why ? to look like a gay?

LOL! I'd probably fall over laughing if ever I saw a Shastardhari Soorbir Dumalla-plus-Chakra wearing Singh sporting ankle bracelets on his wedding day.

I feel a lot of the examples above are just Punjabi customs elevated to the state of divine laws and Sikhi rehat.

Reminds me of some auntie ji telling my sister-in-law that she couldn't go out for 40 days after she had her kid (what the hell are new mothers supposed to do indoors for 40 days?), or old buddhia saying that you shouldn't eat meat on Tuesdays, or saying that someone is thinking bad thoughts about you if you feel warmth in your earlobes, or not to sneeze while you are peeing.

K.

its not right to generalise entire people in this way. their faith isnt completely messed up. there have been so many muslims who have contributed beautifully to the path of sikhee its unbelievable and our Gurus were not so closed-minded as to purge themselves or the lands of their company.

It's not Muslims I'm talking about, but Islam itself. While there have been - and are - many great Muslims, it is despite the tenets of Islam rather than because of them that they are good people. I'm sure Hitler was kind to his friends and his dog, but that doesn't make the philosophies of National Socialism any more palatable.

K.

I don't know how to take this?

In one respect sullay at least have the excuse of following their religion as the cause of their acting like ar5eholes....us on the other hand, have been explicitly not to do certain things but still find ourselves acting like ar5eholes......

It's not that difficult for a kalyugi person to follow a religion like Islam that panders to the basest desires of the lowest common denominator.

K.

Jaikara ji's post collates pretty much all I know about the Siddis.

One interesting thing to note is that Bantu culture has had some influence on the native Indian culture also. For example, there are Kali temples in India where the murtis are propitiated with alcohol and tobacco just as the Bantus today appease their Nkisi fetishes. I've heard of the same thing in Trinidad where there are Bhairav, or Bhairo as he is called there, temples where the rituals have an African undercurrent with drumming, alcohol, cigars and possession occuring. I used to know a Trinidadian of African origin who worshipped a Ganesha statue with rum and cigars at university. He told me it has been his family practice for generations.

K.

Actually, intellectuals make some of the best warriors, and vice versa.

Hindustan does not have a monopoly on reasons and philosophies, if it did, 10 women wouldn't still be burnt every hour, nor would Dalits still be treated worse than animals or Indian have highest female infantcide rate in the world. The above has nothing to do with Islam, and is prevailent in our very own community along with a whole generation of youth who are drug addicts.

This is the very important difference: Sikhi does not tolerate female infanticide, misogyny, or caste prejudice. In fact, Sikhi speaks against all of them to the extent that a Sikh who commits female infanticide is thrown out of the Panth. On the other hand, the ills of Islamic societies are as a direct consequence of the teachings of that religion.

K.

the going gupt happens due to shaheedi fauj retreiving Gurbani. depends on if you think you can fool them. Better start working on memorising bani as a backup plan

I can imagine a Ray Bradbury type scenario where all religious granths are destroyed or confiscated, but I can't imagine all granths and gutkay just disappearing overnight, and I can't imagine our Guru leaving us bereft of all guidance for any time.

I am 5000 year old, veera, my memory is not what it used to be. ;-)

K.

As a researcher said: The best missioaries of radical Islam are the right wing political parties because they promote Islam to be exactly what the radicals want it to be, hereby giving the moderate and spiritual voices of Islam an insignificant role when it comes to define what Islam is about.

The Muslim Mughals didn't need to wait for the BNP or Gert Wilders Dutch Freedom Party to start murdering our ancestors in the name of their Arabian prophet. Islam doesn't need anyone else's help to produce followers who murder, rape and pillage in its name; it has the Quran and the sayings of Mohammed to do that.

As some Spanish philosopher dude once said: those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

K.

Can you elaborate on this Silence. I personally found the granth generally very 'modernish' in outlook myself.

I think Silence ji meant that a lot of the weird practices like the ear-piercing babies stuff in PS could just as easily be repeated by a modern day Punjabi who believes that such things are part of Sikhi rather than traditional cultural practices from Punjabi village folk.

K.

I'm the best looking 5000 year old in the world. Since I am so siyaana, I expect you all to respect my authoritah!

Kal yuga is supposed to last 432,000 years, but I don't know if that is supposed to be an actual honest-to-god accurate figure or simply a symbolic number representing "a really long frickin time".

Anyway, these mahapurush etc may not be speaking about the end of kal yuga but rather a nasty peak in adharmic violence.

K.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

A lot of survivalist/prepper type people talk about burying weapons and other useful things to be recovered when the SHTF (s*** hits the fan) and it is TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it).

Given that various kathavachaks, mahapurush and vidyarthis have spoken about a time coming when Gurbani will go gupt and the world will enter a stage of chaos and darkness, what does the Sangat think of burying various Gurbani granths in airtight non-metallic containers for the future? Would it be beadbi? Have I been reading too many survivalist posts?

K.

When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land - Desmond Tutu

I suppose the lesson is always to pray with one eye open and a hand on your shastar when there are missionaries about!

I am quite pleased that there are now many educated Africans who are rediscovering their traditional religions and starting to practice them instead of the alien middle Eastern cults that their ance4stors were forced to adopt. I hope the trend continues until Africa rediscovers its soul and casts off this remnant of colonialism forever.

K.