Mr Sardar

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As per hindus not giving up punjab would you mean to say sikhs are aggresively being integrated into hindu majority of India and henceforth does this mean we are required to attain khalistan for the survival of sikhi or would you say that we need to take punjab religiously establishing it even though there is sectarian issues today.

Like- improvement in paag styles, langar, online activites going up Dislike- Selfish, thievish, backwards, stab-in-the-back, jealous, envious, hateful, lustful attitude from sikhs, creation of the bhangra industry, raving, clubbing, sleeping around, fighting other races + religions and self for no reason, stupidity, ignorance, corruption, non-functional brotherhood, gianis with there stomach sticking out, gianis commiting pedophila again and again, raagis cooking meat/sasuages/eggs and drinking in a gurdwara, so many sikhs marrying out of religion as there issues in people, being alcoholics, dishonest, being the most corrupt lot, sikh girls producing a reputation of being hoes, men of drunks, amritdharis becoming khalistani extremists, we do not preach our religion to others. Solutions- we need to invest into our parcharaks, to be highly educated from punjab such as damdami taksal get the gianis to know alot of languages, gurbani in soor and start with punjab to bring everyone in punjab into gursikhi first. Alot of people think sikhism has ended when it has only just started we have a chance to put ourselves in the history books like other sikhs did in the past.

Additionally heard a sakhi where a sikh came to guru saying he would get ill, gurusahiban told them not to do kesh bedbi as this created illness. So cutting of kesh creates illness and disease.

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Raj karega khalsa? Do you agree with this Are we supposed to get others to embrace khalsa or are we to dilute only having setup to defeat aurangzeb and evil factions? Thing is today sikhs are alike to punjabi hindus pretty much most of them are punjabi hindus the first generation of sikhs from guru gobind singh time were wipped out by ahmed shah abdali the only person to have gotten close to resurrect them was sant jarnail singh now we have people like baba ranjit singh dhandrianwala with babbu mann's song it gave a blow to his street cred.

Sorry just adding to : "Funnily enough, you might need to 'blame' the Gurus for the martial law theory as they made the Khalsa into a martial race. Any Hindu having some fire in his belly and a sense of adventure became a member of the Khalsa and aligned himself with one of the Misls. The ones who were quietists stayed Hindus. The basic facts are that since the last 100 or so years, the Hindus in Punjab have always been either shop keeping lalas or lower castes. The Sikhs have always been the go getting Jawans or Kisans. There was no British conspiracy, the Sikh as the farmer and the Hindu as the urban shopkeeper had been the case since the times of Guru Gobind Singh. This was also the case in the Muslim majority areas of west Punjab where the urban Hindu was referred to as Kiraar or coward. " The martial stance was wider then just hindus however the sikh raja were practing hinduism aswell like maharaja ranjit singh used to do devi pooja having also his wifes commit sati in the end which is strange because we see a ranjit singh early from his life being a gursikh. Also why did the sikh rajas wear ear rings like hindu kings did? Khalsa rehat would forbid that. Even in maharaja ranjit singh empire many hindus were given big positions from generals also awarded land he probably also converted hindus to sikh or maybe for him they may have been the same as in his raj we find they even had muslims converted to hinduism so for the muslims sikhs were probably just seen as hindus. That defeat was probably humiliating for muslims as they believe those who do not embrace islam will go to hell and have there skin burnt again and again as there prophet made it forbidden for anyone who does not follow his path to go to heaven. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZT1--Kighg Also talking about illict relations there were alot in kenya so you get mixed guys as well as those africans being turned into slaves and abused singhs did horrible things there. Now we have our instances of illict relations in the west between sikhs and other ethnicities it is something natural the most common these days being sikh girls having relations with pakistani muslim boys which is vice-versa in canada from what some people say. After creation of pakistan islam was radicalised alot while in India hinduism has drifted more away from core essence and people kept away from religion political parties have also pushed the sikhs downwards so it's chance to spread has been limited I would say people dread the idea of not cutting hair and tying a turban it may seem like to much on hindus where the tradition even is dieing out in sikhs in punjab due to media influences sikhs encourage sikhs and helping one another does not work alot the brotherhood is in trouble aswell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtNu1msJ4M&feature=related The moghuls were insane offshot of the mongolians they were from genghis khan blood hence forth murderers and rapists who killed many muslims aswell.

There were loads of muslims who became sikh, even in afghanistan when sikhs captured that land the married the women of that region as well kurds, pathans, turks, arabs, persians, etc. so afghan sikhs have alot of mix in them aswell. Having also converted alot of the muslims to sikh in those regions. Sardars had many wifes just like akbar to understand the people it is best to marry there women tactful advancements.

How far in ancient times was krishnas message spread across the world, he was known by the greeks as hercules could krishna's religion have been the religion of all of humanity in ancient times?

I know this sounds off topic but is there some specific reason why hindus hate sikhs for? We are all Indian we maybe hitting krishna conciousness borderline etc. but thing is historically the martyrdom of guru arjan dev ji by jhangir occured because of chandu mal he made the moghuls execute guru sahib mian mir could have stopped it. Ahmed shah abdali was told by a hindu to go after sikhs to kill them. The whole of chamkaur was primarily the rajput rajas (hill kings) fault they had moghuls go after guru sahib and sikhs because they refused to sit on the floor equally with low caste people for langar now we have different caste gurdwaras. Also for helping dara shikoh plus aurangzeb was insane he went after muslims, hindus and sikhs. A brahmin sold out the shabazedy of guru sahib and mata gujri that same brahmins family are nehru gandhi lienage these people organised 1984 had sikhs killed. The partion of India 1947 the killing and rape was started by nehru he incited pakistanis to start the killing. Hindus even incited sikhs to go kill muslims in huge numbers after some hindus went and raped muslim girls. Historically speaking mahatama gandhi was a muslim who executed many sikhs who faught the british to gain independence. But today we are okay with hindus in terms of marrying into them, we will marry our sons and daughters into a hindu house and even now we want to become like them by cutting our kesh. The hinduvata and rss as well as other hindu fanatic groups are targetting punjab by hindunizing it, badal work for these hindu fanatics. But I can understand muslims think we are kaffirs and infidels but what is the problem with hindus the main things we object against is idol worship, caste system, sati and polytheism which if you look into hinduism they are not supposed to be done anyway. The aryan samaj have made degrading remarks to even the early founders of singh sabha about sikhi. Main question is why? http://www.info-sikh.com/PageRSS1.html http://www.searchsikhism.com/rss.html http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa061000a.htm

I think this is what rejected islam. ਆਸਾ ॥ आसा ॥ Āsā. Aasaa: ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਆਏ ਕਿਨਿ ਏਹ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਈ ॥ हिंदू तुरक कहा ते आए किनि एह राह चलाई ॥ Hinḏū ṯurak kahā ṯe ā▫e kin eh rāh cẖalā▫ī. Where have the Hindus and Muslims come from? Who put them on their different paths? ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਚਿ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ ਕਵਾਦੇ ਭਿਸਤ ਦੋਜਕ ਕਿਨਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੧॥ दिल महि सोचि बिचारि कवादे भिसत दोजक किनि पाई ॥१॥ Ḏil mėh socẖ bicẖār kavāḏe bẖisaṯ ḏojak kin pā▫ī. ||1|| Think of this, and contemplate it within your mind, O men of evil intentions. Who will go to heaven and hell? ||1|| ਕਾਜੀ ਤੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਬਖਾਨੀ ॥ काजी तै कवन कतेब बखानी ॥ Kājī ṯai kavan kaṯeb bakẖānī. O Qazi, which book have you read? ਪੜ੍ਹਤ ਗੁਨਤ ਐਸੇ ਸਭ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ पड़्हत गुनत ऐसे सभ मारे किनहूं खबरि न जानी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Paṛĥaṯ gunaṯ aise sabẖ māre kinhūʼn kẖabar na jānī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Such scholars and students have all died, and none of them have discovered the inner meaning. ||1||Pause|| ਸਕਤਿ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕਰੀਐ ਮੈ ਨ ਬਦਉਗਾ ਭਾਈ ॥ सकति सनेहु करि सुंनति करीऐ मै न बदउगा भाई ॥ Sakaṯ sanehu kar sunaṯ karī▫ai mai na baḏ▫ugā bẖā▫ī. Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny. ਜਉ ਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕਰੈਗਾ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥ जउ रे खुदाइ मोहि तुरकु करैगा आपन ही कटि जाई ॥२॥ Ja▫o re kẖuḏā▫e mohi ṯurak karaigā āpan hī kat jā▫ī. ||2|| If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. ||2|| ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕੀਏ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਜੇ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਅਉਰਤ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀਐ ॥ सुंनति कीए तुरकु जे होइगा अउरत का किआ करीऐ ॥ Sunaṯ kī▫e ṯurak je ho▫igā a▫uraṯ kā ki▫ā karī▫ai. If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman? ਅਰਧ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਛੋਡੈ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੀ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੩॥ अरध सरीरी नारि न छोडै ता ते हिंदू ही रहीऐ ॥३॥ Araḏẖ sarīrī nār na cẖẖodai ṯā ṯe hinḏū hī rahī▫ai. ||3|| She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. ||3|| ਛਾਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਬਉਰੇ ਜੁਲਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥ छाडि कतेब रामु भजु बउरे जुलम करत है भारी ॥ Cẖẖād kaṯeb rām bẖaj ba▫ure julam karaṯ hai bẖārī. Give up your holy books, and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly. ਕਬੀਰੈ ਪਕਰੀ ਟੇਕ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਤੁਰਕ ਰਹੇ ਪਚਿਹਾਰੀ ॥੪॥੮॥ कबीरै पकरी टेक राम की तुरक रहे पचिहारी ॥४॥८॥ Kabīrai pakrī tek rām kī ṯurak rahe pacẖihārī. ||4||8|| Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord's Support, and the Muslims have utterly failed. ||4||8|| In islam the koran has said: "Why are not signs sent down to him from his Lord? Say: "The signs are only with Allah (qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi), and I am ONLY a plain warner (wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenun)." S. 29:50 Hilali-Khan http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/only_warner.html "And, indeed We have sent Messengers before you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him»); of some of them We have related to you their story, and of some We have not related to you their story." (40:78) "And We sent not before you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him») but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder (Scriptures) if you do not know. And We did not create them (the Messengers, with) bodies that ate not food, nor were they immortal." (21:8) "Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers saying, ‘We believe in some but reject others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment." (4:150-151) "Verily, We have inspired you (O Muhammad «peace be upon him») as We inspired Nooh (Noah) and the Prophets after him." (4:163) "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets." (33:40) The sufis believed that krishna and buddha were prophets hence they took there teachings and created mysticism from that creating there own poetry. So bhagat bikhian did jaap of har he believed lord krishna was a prophet. As did sheikh farid take aspects of jesus gospels incorporated into his bani. Baba Kabir rejected islam and followed guru ramanand as he seemed to dislike the idea of concubines. I know these things may strike offensive but alot of this aspect of borderline nature of sufism of sikhism has confused alot of sikhs in majority and the panthic scholars themselves do not fully understand so it is better that we look into it to finalise the understand for future generations before muslim preachers take advantage of our lack of knowledge of this subject and convert us and if we are wrong which we all doubt then to claim a separate religion from what the sufis are saying then we can atleast know why. Also did the sufis keep concubines? Additionally the word turk generally reffered to people from uzbeikstan, turkey those who were cold blooded killers and rapists such as the moghuls these people also killed many muslims unless at that point of time the two terms were synonymous. Sorry that statement I made earlier I forgot to state is not my own it was the ahmedia kalifas statement I am aware maharaj says do not call the vedas or katebs false, false is he who calls them false and does not contemplate on there spirtual knowledge. Alot of us are bitter with islam after what jhangir, aurangzeb and muhammad ali jinnah after creation of pakistan did but even forceful conversion to islam is not allowed for them however if as sikhs we are going to move forward with our own religion we have to at least establish dialogue of faiths so as to do our own parchar to them. Sorry the quote is slightly wrong bhul chuuk maaf karna.

http://sufinews.blogspot.com/2005/12/sikh-sufi-relations-interview-with.html From descendent of mian mir "Could you tell us something about Guru Nanak and his relations with the Muslim Sufis? As I see it, Baba Nanak Sahib did not intend to establish a new religion of his own. One of his principal aims was to build bridges of love and harmony between people of different faiths and communities, exhorting them to serve the one God. Now, in Arabic, one who surrenders himself or herself to God and God’s Will is called a ‘Muslim’, and this is why many Sufis consider Baba Nanak Sahib to have been a true Muslim. The Udasis or accounts of the travels of Baba Nanak Sahib tell us that he traveled to Mecca for the Haj. He is also said to have spent six long years in Baghdad, which was then a major centre for the Sufis. Here he studied with many leading Sufis of his day, and it is said that he was presented by the Sufis of the city with a turban as a token of respect and honor. In Baghdad , in the courtyard of the shrine of Hazrat Bahlol Danaai, a famous Sufi, there is a shrine which mentions that Baba Nanak Sahib stayed there. The shoes, the Muslim-style prayer mat [ja-namaz] and the blanket of Baba Nanak and the copy of the Holy Qur’an which he used to regularly read, are also preserved there. " Guru Nanak challenged vedas but not koran. Bhagat Kabir challenged islam. However the bani is stressing on mukhti what sufis call whajjat al whuud. "wahdat-al wujud or the ‘unity of all being’, seeing the light of God in every particle of God’s creation." http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-734654418089458290#

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But Muslims believe the prophet muhammad is the final prophet the seal of the prophets other then that the only prophecies that they have is of imam mahdi and if Guru Nanak is imam mahdi how do we prove that? Isn't it our duty to tell muslims this and to preach this so they accept sikhism. http://www.irshad.org/islam/prophecy/mahdi.htm http://www.adishakti.org/prophecies/18_imam_mahdi_has_surfaced.htm http://www.iawwai.com/MuslimProphecies.html http://bdsteel.tripod.com/More/Prophecy.htm http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/imam.html The prophecy will need some looking into depth rather then skimming so translations aswell. Other then his prophecy of mahdi there is the prophecy of the dajjal anti-christ, satan. And many muslims believed Guru Gobind Singh and his sikhs to be demonic hence why they went after sikhs and called all his miracles satanic. They had immense hatred towards the devil. So to muslims Guru Nanak is either a sufi muslim or a dajjal(deciever anti-christ) whose goal is to divert people away from God's path so they can go to hell so muslims believe either Guru Nanak was a true muslim in which they respect him or an anti-christ or from what we are seeing someone who was borderline sufi i.e. borderline muslim. The secret door of mecca opening where is this prophecy written? I would say we really need to know the sakhis of Guru Nanak in muslim countries such as syria, egypt and so on. In mecca Guru Nanak gave a shabad in which he gave the definition of fakiri and being a pir. All the people there attributed him to being a pir i.e. sufi. In the past the hindus and sikhs thought pir meant a great prophet like figure when it means someone following mohammad and for muslims they tended to also give respect towards us perhaps with the intention that we convert to islam. The sufis tend to present islam to people in such regions to the way they understand religion so by presenting an arabic tradition to hindus in the form of hinduism. The people then were not ready to understand these things and politics of those time did not allow for us to aswell. The hatred from hindus was clearly immense, had Guru Nanak accepted islam he could have been protected by muslim goverment of that time but the message of God would have not been spread at all. Guru Nanak has not really contradicted islam at all to any further extent then any other sufi. Sufis in the past have had similar nature however they still worked in the scope of the haddiths and quran they just explained it to people like even the idea of killing someone who leaves islam is not even supposed to be done but muslims do it. Or sheikh farid explaining music and dancing are not entirely haram just the nature of them is. We find Guru Nanak to have presented doctrines present in haddiths in a hindu idea of understanding to the hindus but he went to muslim countries and taught islam to muslims in islamic doctrines he did not teach hinduism so much to them he has talked on the lines of rumi even though rumi took elements of hinduism and buddhism but those teaching were widespread aswell, they can be found in the gospel of jesus christ and the quran. We are also finding now that jesus came to India alot of proof is suggesting this today christians believe the quran has been written down from oral dictations of gospels of christ after 600 years after jesus they were taught in arabia by word of mouth. Even how namaz is done is the way jesus prayed and jesus also used to call God allah. Guru Nanak has not talked about the day of judgement and in todays newer translations of the bible this idea is thinning into different contexts now especially from gnostic gospels. The sufis were heavily influenced by christianity in gurbani sheikh farid ji says: farida bure da bala kar gusa man na hadaye. dehi rog na lagayi pale sab kich paye. ||78|| Farid, answer evil with goodness; do not fill your mind with anger. Your body shall not suffer from any disease, and you shall obtain everything. ||78|| and Jesus says: Eye for Eye 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Love for Enemies 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Mathew 5-38-48 FOOTNOTES Matthew 5:38 Exodus 21:24; Lev. 24:20; Deut. 19:21 Matthew 5:43 Lev. 19:18 In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus says: 27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. —Luke 6:27-31. KJV JESUS: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again. Luke 6.27-30 BUDDHA: Hatreds do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth….. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good. Overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth. Dhammapada 1.5 & 17.3 http://www.heartforpeace.net/quotes_of_the_day.php Buddhism during ashokas time existed in punjab, India and afghanistan elements of it went up to arabia and middle east. How many people did Guru Nanak tell not to cut there hair to? Did Guru Nanak ever tell muslims not to cut there mostaches? Prophet muhammad says that satan sits there implying it is unhygenic he taught people to cut hair did Guru Nanak teach against this? Did Guru Nanak ever tell muslims not to circumcise there children? An English man who went to mecca had to circumcsie himself because when he went to such a country he knew he would be bathing with other men so if they saw him not being circumcised they would have killed him. Under the hanafi school of islam which ruled over mecca they would permit a non-muslim in the unity of God to enter mecca this was generally something moreso for christians the understandings between christians and muslims was much better then that towards hindus as they would even allow intermarriages at some points. Guru Nanak went to yogis who did not cut there hair and he taught against being asteics a teaching which belongs to prophet muhammad. Muhammad taught to live grist jeevan the married life and to pray in that. During rumis time alot of the middle east, persia (iran) and afghanistan had many different religions such as buddhists, christians etc. We might believe Islam spread by the sword but even with that they were not allowed to forcefully convert people something offcourse aurangzeb did, but those kings imposed jizyas, poll tax etc. sufism was a tool in that time period to convert people to islam as it was in India. In terms of the insane extremist attitude from muslims it is more of a minority even though they have political stage at the moment.

They claimed him to be a buddhist aswell some kids these days think he invented atheism and or agnotism while some give him evil attributes. Dhan gurusahib

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Hi just want to ask if anyone knows a list invocations besides whaeguru satnaam, rab da shukar hai. I remember encountering like a pamphlet in punjabi once for a paath for going toilet, paath before eating food (3ho teaches say satnaam 3 times before eating or drinking anything). I think nanaksar has written something on this from Guru Gobind Singh ji's writings. I hear alot of phite moo and satiahnaas is this bad for a gurmukh to say?