singh2

Balbir ji

Let kala afghna sect reply to it first. The purpose of this thread is not what you are trying to tell us.

We can discuss your view point afterwards.

Question for Inder, do you accept CP 21-23 as Guru's hadd beeti like padam and vijay?

People may make mistakes and Padam may be one of them. I do not endorse those who say that charitras 21-23 are real life happening of tenth master. It has been said many many times on this forum.Are you dumb asking same question again and again. You are no different than congress agent Darshu Ragi.

Other than that, Vijay talks a lot of you know what. He is often caught lying. As for Darshan Singh mixing 16 and 21-23, that is his issue. However, padam said 16, 21-23 are personal life stories of 10th Nanak. Savinder Singh said 21-23 in Sacramento in presense of inder, lamba and pannu. What were they doing at that time?

Read my answer above.

Suffice to say that do not bring non related aubject in this discussion.This discussion is about your misinterpretation of shabad. Stay focussed on that.Do not run like a mad person here and thee.

Whole world knows farsi is different than arabic. Vijaydeep has written that in his post. Did not you read that.

1)I want midget scholar of kala afghana sect to show me where did poet shyam wrote anti Gurmat.

the refrenced quote is given below again

ਅਬਿ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੌ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ।

ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ।

ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ।

ਬਰਨਤ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਈ। ੧। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੧}

Abe Chaubees Uchro Avtaara

Jeh Bid Tin Kaa Lkhaa Akhaara

Suneeaho Sunt Sbai Chitt Laaee

Burnutt Shyam Jathaa Mutt Bhaaee 1

Now I describe the twenty-four incarnations

as their play was played.

All saints are to focus on the story and listen.

Shyam (poet) is stating them according to his own understanding. 1.

2)Balbir ji has given two verses from krishna avtar.Can this kala afghna sect midget scholar show those in Purana.

Poet Shyam is writer of Dasam Granth. He worshipped 4 armed Mahakaal. That is an attack on MOOL MANTAR - essence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji - itself. Mool Mantar says Waheguru is Ajooni. It says Waheguru is Akaal Moorat... Then from where do these 4 arms, anklets, etc come from? The poet worshipping a four armed creation is already enough anti Gurmat stuff.

This is not the answer to my question. You wrote that poet shyam wrote anti gurmat in Krishna avtar. I asked what is that anti gurmat? PLease show me by quoting verses from Chaubis avtar. Be specific and not beat about bush.

It is BASED on Bhagwat Puran. Read it, understand it and you will see! The Bible says that one shouldn't indulge in adultery, this doesn't mean that it is Gurbani, same way few things in accordance to Gurmat doesn't make it Gurbani.

That is why i am asking you " Show this verse in Bhagwat purana." Please show this.

I will give tens more and show if those are in Bhagwat puranas? Lies would not work here.

The following is from Vijydeep singh ji in replt to misinformation of fauji

Gurfateh

It is amazing to note thgat instead of answering the questions terms Devi Bhagat and Vishnu Bhagat are being used.This is art of propaganda.

it is worth to note that difference between outcastes and lower caste is not understood. After the name of das vijaydeep Singh terms like Mann or Virk does not appear. Bhagat/Bhagwan Ravidas Ji learnt devotion from Brahmin Ramanand ji and proved that if educated an outcaste can be above Brahmin with sacred thread of four ages. He never had any plan to over throw the exploiting rulers. That started only with Tenth Master slavery of native Indians was abolished from racial Aryans and invader Turks. We have Vratya(outcaste by being apostate’s son) and Chandala(outcaste by intercaste marriage) being rulers as in the case of Sukerchakiya Misl and Bhai Beeru Singh Raghureta. If giving testimony of rising of subjected races via Guru’s blessing is playing caste card for some, let it be.

(this thing is out of context but brought uselessly in this topic but answer will be given)

Instance of Darshanu and co is uselessly brought in. Did Padam mix Charitropakhayn chaitras 16 with 21,22,23 ?Not at all and none will do that.It is only so caleld kala afghna chelas doing that.

In 16th Charitropakhyan term prostitute and pimp appears, where king drugs the prostitute and flee. In 21,22,23 lord is threatened by wealthy lady and she shouts and her brother is caught and beaten. Darshanu mixed both. Instead of confessing his mistake he and his so called Sikhs still shamelessly hold the ground. When Darshanu is asked to give quotes on TV, he fails. Then again his followers try to beat the TV personal.(All this topic should be moved to other thread and Bhai Inder Singh Ji know more of whole episode).

Here question was new interpretation that also by giving some words which were claimed to be were from Farsi(actual term is Parsi but as there is no “p” letter in Arabic so they used “f” instead to call this language as Farsi, term Pe, Zhe, Che and Gaf are not in Arabic but are in Farsi/Parsi, which came after the era of Yaqub Bin Layeeth, when instead of Khit E Mikh(letters of nails) were replaced by present script of Arabic letter base)

It is very good that not responding is also given as difference between Faris and Arebic is also not understood by Ghugga Panthis. Better is to scan the dictionary . Let us see what spellings are there in Khantanh ? It is better to understand the Khitte of Farsi, Harfai of Farsi before using the dictionary, Are these terms written in Farsi’s present script or in other script ? Does person making meaning from Farsi knows how to read, write or speak Farsi ? Does he know the difference between the words about their origin, which is either from Arabic(Semitic group) or Parsi(indo-European) ? Without all that there is nothing but wasting of time by that person to make sentences from Farsi by reading dictionary.

Link to Farsi dictionary is given below

http://www.farsidic.com/

Kindly type the exact spellings in farsi from here or from dictionary, there is another dictionary by Arayanpur Kashni, both English to farsi and farsi to English.

It is appropriate that dictionary be scanned and words should be in Farsi script also.

But here we were talking whether Garurh Sabad is same as mythological Garuda? Which ego of Ghugga Panthi has led to totally different out of context talk, as in past ghugga also tried to misinterpret and after failing moved away from this Bani and siding with those who do not have faith in This Bani is part of Gurmat.

When some one intentionlly mixes symbol of spell of serpent with mythological figure, it is academic dishonesty.

ਗਾਰੁੜੀ

SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary

ਸਪ ਦਾ ਵਿਹੁ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਮੰਤਰ

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਦੇਖੋ, ਗਾਰੜੀ.

Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale);

ਗਾਰੜੀ

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਸੰ. गारुड ਗਾਰੁੜ. ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਦਵਾਈ ਦਾ ਜਾਣੂ. "ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੋਈ ਗਾਰੜੂ".ਗਰੁੜਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਯਾਤਾ। (2) ਸਰਪਵਿਸ (ਵਾਰ ਗੂਜ ੧. ਮਃ ੩) "ਦਸਨ ਬਿਹੂਨ ਭੁਯੰਗੰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਗਾਰੁੜੀ ਨਿਵਾਰੰ". (ਗਾਥਾ) ਗੁਰਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਦੇ ਬਲ ਕਰਕੇ ਠਾਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਰਪ, ਡੰਗਣ (ਦੰਸ਼ਨ) ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। (3) ਗਰੁੜਮੰਤ੍ਰ, ਜੋ ਸਰਪਵਿਖ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਹੈ. "ਗਾਰੜੁ ਗੁਰਗਿਆਨ". (ਮਲਾ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੧)। (4) ਸੰ. ਗਾਰੁੜੀ. ਗਰੁੜਵਿਦ੍ਯਾ. "ਕਹੂੰ ਬੈਠਕੈ ਗਾਰੜੀਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਾਚੈਂ". (ਜਨਮੇਜਯ).

ਗਰੁੜੁ

As usual only partial truth is hereby given from Nabha Sahib's view as dishoensty is always the tendency of Ghugga Panth.

ਗਰੁੜੁ

SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary

(ਸੱਪ ਡੰਗੇ ਦਾ ਜ਼ਹਰ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ) ਗਾਰੁੜੀ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ/ਨੀਲਕੰਠ ਦਾ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ, ਸੱਪ ਦਾ ਜ਼ਹਿਰ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਦੁਆਈ।

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਸੰ. गारुड़ ਗਾਰੁੜ. ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨਗਰੁੜ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਦੇਵਤਾ, ਐਸਾ ਸੱਪ ਦਾ ਵਿਹੁ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ। ੨ ਸੱਪ ਦਾ ਵਿਸ ਵਾਲੀ ਦਵਾਈ. "ਘਸਿ ਗਰੁੜੁ ਸਬਦ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੀਠਾ". (ਗਉ ਮਃ ੪) ਗੁਰਸ਼ਬਦ ਰੂਪ ਗਾਰੁੜ ਚੱਟਿਆ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਲੀਠਾ. "ਗਰੁੜੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਇਆ, ਹਉਮੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰੀ". (ਮਲਾ ਮਃ ੩).

Mahan Kosh data

Is Nabha Sahib also Karmakandi and Brahminwadi?(In Shri Guru Granth Sahib we find term Brahmin, also for those who understand Brahm(God manifesting in matter).

So does term Garud means Sabad for them ? Why is difference between Gaarurh and Garurh is ignored ? As told be Nabha Sahib.

ਗਰੁੜ

SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary

ਇਕ ਮਿਥਕ ਪੰਛੀ ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਸਵਾਰੀ ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂੰ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕਰਦੇ ਦਸੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਸਾਰੇ ਪੰਛੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਰਾਜਾ। (ਸੱਪ ਡੰਗੇ ਦਾ ਜ਼ਹਰ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ) ਗਾਰੁੜੀ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ।

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary

n. A mythological bird who is said to be the vehicle of God Vishu

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਸੰ. गरुड {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਨੁ ਦਾ ਵਾਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਪੰਛੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ.ਵਿਨਤਾ ਦੇ ਗਰਭ ਤੋਂ ਕਸ਼੍ਯਪ ਦਾ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ, ਜੋ ਵਿਸ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਅੱਧਾ ਧੜ ਪੰਛੀ ਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਉਪੱਰਲਾ ਭਾਗ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦਾ ਹੈ. ਮਹਾਭਾਰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜਦ ਨੁ ਨੇ ਰੀਝਕੇ ਆਖਿਆ ਕਿ ਵਰਗਰੁੜ ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਜਿੱਤਕੇ ਸੁਰਗ ਤੋਂ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਲੈ ਆਇਆ, ਤਦ ਵਿਸ ਨੁ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਬਾਤ ਮੰਨ ਲਈ, ਪਰ ਗਰੁੜਮੰਗ. ਗਰੁੜ ਨੇ ਕਿਹਾ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਸਦਾ ਆਪ ਦੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਰਹਾਂ, ਵਿਸ ਨੁ ਦਾ ਅਪਮਾਨਨੇ ਮਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਸੋਚਿਆ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਚੰਗੀ ਨਹੀਂ

ਹੋਈ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਅਜਿਹਾ ਹੋਣ ਤੋਂ ਵਿਸ ਨੁ ਨੇ ਆਖਿਆ ਕਿ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰੀਨੁ ਨੂੰ ਆਖਿਆ ਕਿ ਆਪ ਮੈਥੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਵਰ ਲੈ ਲਓ. ਵਿਸਹੈ. ਗਰੁੜ ਨੇ ਵਿਸ ਸਵਾਰੀ ਬਣਜਾ. ਹੁਣ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਇਹ ਹੋਈ ਕਿ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਇੱਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਦੇ ਹੇਠ ਹੋਣ ਪਿਆ. ਅੰਤ ਨੂੰ ਵਡੀ ਨੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਦੀ ਧੁਜਾ ਉੱਪਰ ਰਹੇ, ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਵਿਸਵਿਚਾਰ ਪਿੱਛੋਂ ਇਹ ਫੈਸਲਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਕਿ ਗਰੁੜ ਵਿਸ ਨੁ ਦੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਭੀ ਹੋਇਆ. "ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜੇ ਆਏ ਗੋਪਾਲ". (ਭੈਰ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ)।ਵਾਹਨ ਭੀ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਵਿਸ (2) ਦੇਖੋ, ਗਰੁੜੁ.

All Sikhs in past and present and in future who do not subscrib to atheist Ghugga Panth are Karamkandis and Brahman Wadis.

http://gurmatvichar.info/files/kothak.pdf

(see page 69 to 79 about similar attempt by Mr Ghugga)

Why should we believe in persons who change their stances so often. Who first want quotes from Prof Sahib Singh Ji’s interpetation and then say that he did work fast so may not be appropriate in doing the interpretation to the best and then call him also Brahmanwadi as being just done.

Nabha Sahib and Prof Sahib Singh Ji are called here as Vishnu worshippers by ghugha panthis. This is new invention of kala afghna alias ghugha panthis

He was some person. I am not interested in his life as he wrote anti Gurmat stuff.

That is a lie. We are discussing poet shyam in context of krishna avtar. Show us where he wrote anti gurmat?

It means what it means. translation = translation. What part of that word is difficult to understand?

A total lie.show us the following in Hindu granth

ਧੰਨ ਜੀਓ ਤਿਹ ਕੋ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਚਿੱਤ ਮੈ ਜੁਧੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਦੇਹ ਅਨਿੱਤ ਨ ਨਿੱਤ ਰਹੈ ਜਸੁ ਨਾਵ ਚੜੈ ਭਵਸਾਗਰ ਤਾਰੈ ॥

धंन जीओ तिह को जग मै मुख ते हरि चि्त मै जुधु बिचारै ॥ देह अनि्त न नि्त रहै जसु नाव चड़ै भवसागर तारै ॥

Bravo to the soul of that person, who remembers the Lord through his mouth and reflects in his mind about the war of righteousness; who considers this body the war of righteousness; who considers this body as transient, ascends the boat of Lords` praise and ferries across the dreadful ocean of the world;

I am not fooled one bit by that. Why? Because I have read Krishan Avtar.

When Gurbani says KAHAI NANAK, its third person, isn't that the Guru Sahibaan?

You have a flawed logic.

What other Granth written by Krishan are you talking about? If you had enough Gyaan, you would know that it is based on Bhagwat Puran. I would rather urge you to read Bhagwat Puran itself that Poet Shyams edited translations of it. You guys really love third party stuff, don't ya?

I have two questions

1)Can you tell us who was poet shyam if not Guru ji

2) You claim having read krishna avtar.When you say krishna avtar is translated from bhagwat puranas. What does it exactly mean

Mail from Vijaydeep Singh ji

Let us see the views of Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha

For

ਪਾਖੰਤਣ

SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary

ਖੰਭਾਂ ਦਾ

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary

H. n. A playing instrument made of bellowing wings

SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia

ਵਿ- ਪਕ੍ਸ਼੍ (ਪੰਖਾਂ) ਦਾ. "ਪਾਖੰਤਣ ਬਾਜ ਬਜਾਇਲਾ". (ਭੈਰ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ) ਪੰਖਾਂ (ਖੰਭਾਂ) ਦਾ ਵਾਜਾ ਵਜਾਉਂਦੇ ਹੋਏ। (2) ਪਕ੍ਸ਼੍ (ਪਹਰ) ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਦਾ ਵਾਜਾ, ਗ਼ਜ਼ਲ.

(as per Mahankosh, he talks of playing the musical instrument of wings.

For the same what does Prof Sahib Singh Ji say

ਪਾਖੰਤਣ ਬਾਜ ਬਜਾਇਲਾ ॥ ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਆਇਲਾ ॥੧੫॥

पाखंतण बाज बजाइला ॥ गरुड़ चड़्हे गोबिंद आइला ॥१५॥

Pākẖanṯaṇ bāj bajā▫ilā. Garuṛ cẖaṛĥe gobinḏ ā▫ilā. ||15||

Playing on the instrument of the feathered wings, the Lord of the Universe came, mounted on the eagle garura. ||15||

ਪਾਖੰਤਣ = ਖੰਭ। ਬਾਜ = ਵਾਜਾ। ਬਜਾਇਲਾ = ਵਜਾਇਆ। ਆਇਲਾ = ਆਇਆ।੧੫।

(ਬੱਸ! ਉਸੇ ਵੇਲੇ) ਖੰਭਾਂ ਦੇ ਫੜਕਣ ਦਾ ਖੜਾਕ ਆਇਆ, ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂੰ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਗਰੁੜ ਤੇ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਆ ਗਿਆ।੧੫।

ਅਪਨੇ ਭਗਤ ਪਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥ ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਆਏ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੧੬॥

अपने भगत परि की प्रतिपाल ॥ गरुड़ चड़्हे आए गोपाल ॥१६॥

Apne bẖagaṯ par kī parṯipāl. Garuṛ cẖaṛĥe ā▫e gopāl. ||16||

He cherished His devotee, and the Lord came, mounted on the eagle garura. ||16||

ਪਰਿ = ਉੱਤੇ।੧੬।

ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਜੀ ਗਰੁੜ ਤੇ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਆ ਗਏ, ਤੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਭਗਤ ਦੀ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਕਰ ਲਈ।੧੬।

Again same meanings by Prof Sahib Singh Ji

Pakhantan= wings, Baj=musical instrument, Bajaila=playing, Aila=came.

Das’s views

Terms Pankh is derived from Paksha or side of Sanskrit. While postfix Aila is directly taken from Marathi. There was an attempt to make Marthi words similar to Arabic(which Ghugga Panthi wrote mistakenly as Farsi).

In traditional or Kadimi Farsi of medieval India there has been no such attempt to mix Farsi and Arabic in such a way. Only in Rekhta, which is now called Urdu mixing of Arebic,Farsi and Khari Boli is used but never whole sentence of Arebic-Farsi is used as such.

As per Nanak Singh Ji Nishtar, a Deccani poet and linguist plus a south Indian Sikh true Rekhta emerged from the Bani of Tenth Master which was fusion of Indic and Semitic culture.

While Sikhs integrate them, atheist condemn them. As per the latest info from a missionary Kathakar employed by DSGMC(das met him last Monday(14/12/09 at Gurdwara Rakabganj Sahib) , Ghugga also has resolved that only Bani of First Master is Valid and rest are interpolation in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, As he failed to explain various concepts of Bhagat Bani, Bhatt Bani, Gursikh Bani and Gurbani related to Five Gurus other than First Master.

So such “divine knowledge” will soon dawn upon Ghugga Panthis is Canada, like Jeonawala Barar and co.

As we see this Ghugga Panthi in question, who about 3 years ago use to agree that Five Banis are at least by Tenth Master(theory of Ambala) but later with similar “divine revelation “ said that had he to write any bani, he should have included in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji(Theory of Kala Afghana).

So in future we must wait him to say that Baba Nanak (not Satiguru Nanak) never passed Gurta to any human.

God Bless him and those who ever think to follow him.Person who does not have faith in true Guru, very easily change false gurus too from Ambala,Kala Afghana, Ghugga, Jeonawala, Darshanu, Joginder Sahani and more to come.

Like many other Gursaikhs, Vijaydeep singh ji is doing tremendous seva for khalsa panth by devoting a lot of his time to counter gurnindaks of kala afghna cult.

May waheguru be his ang sang.

Vahegur..... Vaheguru..... Vaheguru....

I am just shocked to see how this man has misinterpreted the words to fit into his idealogy. A Sikh needs to follow Gurmat not make Gurmat follow him. This translation is nothing short of Manmat to the max. May Guru Jee show put you on the path of Gurmat and forgive you for misinterprating Gurbani like this. I don't even want to imagine what Jamdoots will do to you for doing this Paap.

May be they will alter guru Granth sahib to suit to their ideology. That is the reason they took all manuscripts away in 1984 after burning sikh refrerence library.

Some brothers were asking for arths of Garur Chrrai Gobind Aaelaa

ਪਦ ਅਰਥ

ਪਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ), ਹੇਠਾ, ਨੀਵਾ ਭਾਵ ਨੀਵੇ ਪੱਧਰ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ

ਖੰਤਣ – ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨਾ, ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਖਤਨ ਤੋ( ਖੰਤਨ ਹੈ

ਬਾਜ – ਬਗੈਰ

ਬਜਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਗ਼ਲਤੀ, ਭੁੱਲ, ਦੋਸ਼, ਪਾਪ

ਇਲਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ, ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾਂ ਪ੍ਰੰਤੂ ਸਿਵਾਏ

ਆਇਲਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ, ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ ਨਾਂ ਹੋਣਾ (‘ਅ’ ਦੇ ਪਿਛੇਤਰ ‘ਇਲਾ’ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜਦੋ ਆ ਦੇ ਪਿਛੇਤਰ ‘ਇਲਾ’ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਨਾਂਹ ਵਾਚਕ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ)

ਗਰੁੜ –

ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਆਨਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਘਸਿ ਗਰੁੜੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੀਠਾ ॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ 171

ਗਰੁੜੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਉਮੈ ਬਿਖੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰੀ ॥1॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ 1260

ਸੋ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਗਰੁੜ ਹੈ

ਚੜ੍‍ੇ – ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੋਣਾ, ਜਿਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੂਰਜ ਚੜੇ ਤਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ – ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੋਣਾ

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਆਇਲਾ – ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ(ਗੋਬਿੰਦ - ਗਯਾਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਣ ਯੋਗ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਮਹਾਨ ਕੋਸ਼)

ਅਰਥ

ਇਹ ਭੁੱਲ ਹੈ, ਹੇਠਲੇ ਪੱਧਰ ਭਾਵ ਛੋਟੇ ਲੈਵਲ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਗ਼ੈਰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ। (ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਇਹ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨਾ ਹੀ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੇ ਮਾਰਗ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ ਹੈ)।

ਨੋਟ – ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਸੂਝ ਲਈ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨੀ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਹੈ; ਨਹੀ ਤਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਣ ਨਹੀਂ। ਇਸ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਨੂੰ ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਰੱਦ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਨਿਰੀ ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ ਸੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ।

ਅਪਨੇ ਭਗਤ ਪਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ ਆਏ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥16॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ 1166

ਪਦ ਅਰਥ

ਅਪਨੇ ਭਗਤ – ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਆਪਣੀ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਉੱਪਰ

ਪਰਿ – ਉੱਪਰ

ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ – ਬਖਸ਼ਿਸ਼

ਗਰੁੜ ਚੜ੍‍ੇ – ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼

ਗੋਪਾਲ – ਪਾਲਕ ਅਤੇ ਰੱਖਿਅਕ ਖ਼ੁਦਾ

ਅਰਥ

ਜਦੋਂ ਕਿ ਸੱਚ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜੋ ਉਸ ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਦੀ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਖ਼ੁਦਾ ਉਸ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਆਪਣੀ ਬਖਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਭਾਵ ਆਤਮਿਕ ਗਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਸੂਝ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ। ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ ਜਾਂ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਮੰਤਰ ਪੜਨ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ।

Kam ji is right.He is not kala afghani panth only.In new reincarnation let us call him ghagha panthi.His mistakes have been pointed out by Vijydeep singh ji.His mail is given belwo

By Vijaydeep singh

Answer to the farsi’s misinterpretation by a Ghugga Panthi.

Das found a few words of farsi by a Ghugga Panthi guys.

Ba Fazl e Akal Bande Tarjuma Dar Zaban E Farsi Mi Kunad.Lutfan Be Bineed. By the mercy of Akal slave does the translations in Farsi kindly see.

ਪਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ), ਹੇਠਾ, ਨੀਵਾ ਭਾਵ ਨੀਵੇ ਪੱਧਰ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ

ਖੰਤਣ – ਸੁੰਨਤ ਕਰਨਾ, ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਖਤਨ ਤੋ( ਖੰਤਨ ਹੈ

ਬਾਜ – ਬਗੈਰ

ਬਜਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਗ਼ਲਤੀ, ਭੁੱਲ, ਦੋਸ਼, ਪਾਪ

ਇਲਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ, ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾਂ ਪ੍ਰੰਤੂ ਸਿਵਾਏ

ਆਇਲਾ – (ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ, ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ ਨਾਂ ਹੋਣਾ (‘ਅ’ ਦੇ ਪਿਛੇਤਰ ‘ਇਲਾ’ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਫ਼ਾਰਸੀ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜਦੋ ਆ ਦੇ ਪਿਛੇਤਰ ‘ਇਲਾ’ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਨਾਂਹ ਵਾਚਕ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ)

For Pa we have

= foot, leg, [fig.] foundation, support

For below

Below =

Term is Dar Zer or PAyeen.

Term Kantan does not exists in Farsi at all so it is a lie.

Term Khatan,Khat also does not exists in Farsi either.

Circumcision has term Khatneh

Circumcision =

(there is H or E in end)

For without it is not Baaj but Bedoon.

Without =

For Baz/Baj we have meaning

= open, clear (as a road), [geom.] obtuse

= hawk, falcon

= again, still, yet, nevertheless, further

= back, again, re, etc.

= tribute, toll, tax

For mistake term is Ashtbah

Mistake =

Mistake =

For sin Term is Gunah

Sin =

Term Baja Stands for correct

= opportune, proper

Terms Eela or Aeela do not occur in Farsi.

To nnegae something either we use Bi Like in Bidune( =without) or Na like in Naras(

= unrip, green

).

So Sangat is requested that whenever such wrong interpretation by aethist followers of Ghugga or Kala Afghan is carried out more in the case of Braj, Sadhu, Farsi, Bhojpuri, Rekhta, Lehanda, we need to be carefull before believing that.

vijaydeep Singh

Giani Gurbachan Singh, Jathedar Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, talks to JUS Punjabi TV on the Maryada of Sri Akal Takhat Sahib in giving someone Tankhah and other Panthic issues including Ragi Darshan Singh's failure to appear before Sri Akal Takhat Sahib

Jathedar Gurbachan Singh reveals how Darshan Singh, while serving as the Jathedar Akal Takhat, used to hold meetings of the Singh Sahibaans at his residence in Ludhiana, and now is showing reservations in appearing before the Singh Sahibaans at Akal Takhat Secretariat which is located at Sri Akal Takhat Sahib complex

P.S. This interview of Giani Gurbachan Singh is from an hour long TV programme that was conducted on JUS Punjabi to review to the situation after Darshan Singh Ragi failed to appear before the Takhat. Full video with the views of Sikh scholar Dr. Harpal Singh Pannu, Professor and Head, Guru Gobind Singh Department of Relgious Studies, Punjabi University Patiala, is also posted in the below link.

If we are going to read translations of markandeya puran as GUrbani, we will be labelled Hindus without a doubt. If we accept these translatiosn as Gurbani, we have no reason to oppose Hindus saying we are an offshoot of Hinduism or a sect of Hinduism. Amee raulee paon daa kee faidaa? Recently, Ashutosh gave challenge again. He said he doesn't call SIkhs anything. He said I am not the one saying Sikhs are children of Luv Kush. He said it was Giani Pooran SIngh and Dasam Granth. Do I need to say more?

Question to INder:

Is ashutosh a pakka Gursikh since he believes in your beloved poet Shyam's Dasam Granth which was originally Bachitter Natak Granth?

It is not translation.It is adaptation.

Gupt

You wrote that you do not believe 200 percent in Dasam Granth. Then what are you debating for.

sangat ji,

this is heretic out here for propaganda. He does not believe in Dg and i think there is no need

to make him to believe that.

It is for admin to decide whether they want to give him free hand to indulge in propaganda.

They need to keep in mind that there are young sikhs who visit this forum and the purpose of such propagandists

is to create confusion among vulnerable.

Matheen ji

These people are dumb and hence unable to understand the meaning of mahakal.

God is formless and has no name. But he has been given functional names both in

SGGs ji and dasam Granth.

Guru ji makes it amply clear when he writes in dasam granth that it is God who is known as kal.

ਕਾਲ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੇਗ ਅਰੁ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕੀ ਆਜੁ ਤੁਹੀ ਜਗਬੀਰ ॥੫॥

काल तुही काली तुही तुही तेग अरु तीर ॥ तुही निशानी जीत की आजु तुही जगबीर ॥५॥

Thou art the KAL (death), thou art the goddess Kali, Thou art the saber and arrow, Thou art the sign of victory today and Thou art the Hero of the world.5.

Dasam Granth sahib

http://www.patshahi1..._id=304#josc304

Dear Sangat ji,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

I am narrating before you my first hand interaction with Ragi D Singh, this incident dates back about one and a half year back, when Ragi was in chandigarh to do kirtan at Ramgarhia Bhawan sector 27 Chandigarh, and he sang the shabad about dujee bhav meaning those who abandon the path shown by the Guru and tread the second path face the obstacles etc, after the kirtan one of my friends asked him to spare time for interaction, Ragi told that he was going to the house of Rajinder Singh of Khalsa Panchayat and that he should come to that place for interaction , though I was inclined to be face to face with Ragi but on the insistence of my friend I went along with him to the residence of Khalsa Panchayat president , by the time we reached that place Ragi was having dinner with his friends at that place and his plate was full of goat meat , we sat apart and waited for Ragi to finish his meals , he joined us and soon all his companions also came and sat with us, my friend asked Ragi ji to explain the meaning of Duja Bhav but Ragi being crafty enough inquired from my friend the basis of his question , in what context was the question being asked but my friend was feeling shy to tell him the reason for asking this question and both of them spent some time in this interaction with out any progress ultimately to get past the deadlock I intervened and told Ragi ji that my friend did not have the courage to offend you ,the basis of his reasoning is to ask from you whether the stones worn by you in your fingers come in the Guru Ka Bhaw or Duja Bhaw ,to this their was commotion in the room and all his well-wishers in the room were shell shocked after some time the Ragi replied that these stones were worn by him to cure his diseases , again there was chaos in the room with my fried inquiring which doctor advised him this cure ,I sarcastically asked Ragi whether these stone were got known to him through the parrot or he went to some panda to get his teewa made , Ragi was also loosing his cool by now and he said that even Guru Gobind Singh ji wore Jewelry ,to this I asked Ragi that while he was the Jathedar at Siri Akal Takhat Sahib can he recount the number of innocent villagers whom he asked to remove their worldly Jewelry and put the Kakars prescribed the Guru and can he give them a message that Sikhs can adorn any kind of ornaments , there was melee all around his supporter asked us not to let this episode go into the press we also asked them that hurting Ragi is not our aim but they should ensure that Ragi removes all these stones, to which they assured us ,and this is the first time I am disclosing this incident to let the Sikh masses judge who is who in Sikh affairs

Chandigarh India

I am not aware of it, nor is something written 2 years back more important than things written in 1700s.

Now say; Is Bachittar Natak right or Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Written two years back does not invalidate anything.He has simply consolidated his research from past archives and reproduced it.

You claim to be well read in sikh history yet you do not know rehtanamas, bhat vahis and literaure of that time.Yet you come here and utter nonsense.

What type of history you have read? or read at all?

Since you only beleive in SGGS ji it is possible you do not consider rehatnamas and sikh history as part of sikh ethos.

Well read in Sikh history? You don't know me so don't pass personal comments on me.

Bhatt Vahis, give me exact quotes of them. And name me which Rehatnamas you are talking of.

Get me that article. By whom is it?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Do not tell me to do your home work.

Answer me

Are you aware of the above or not?

Guptsingh1699 wrote

Give sources. Just claiming something doesn't make sense. Panth is equal to the Guru. Sarbat Khalsa can modify things in Rehat which are anti Gurmat. Don't say that Panthic Rehat Maryada (Akal Takht Maryada) was made by Guru Ji...

In the above gupt1699 is saying that he does not believe Guru sahib read five banis when he administered amrit in 1699.This shows he is not well read in sikh history.

Gupt1669, have you read bhat vahis and rehatnams. In that it is mentioned very clearly what banis Guru sahib read.

Do you know a sikh periodical " The sikh Review"? In that there was an article two years back by a famous sikh historian saying these five banis are same what was read by guru sahib in 1699.

Are you aware of that?

Haha... Don't you have acces to a doctor???????

He may have acces to different IP's, but in Canada. I'm right here sitting in Europe.

This topic is about Dasam Granth and not Naam.

So Inder, you choose Guru Granth Sahib on Guru Amar Das being Bhalla or DG saying Guru Amar Das being a Bedi?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Answer my question first

What is naam?

How is it done

How do we get naam in sikhism

Inder:

Why do you treat everyone as me with separate IDs? Do you know that there are countless anti-DG people in the world. They can also access internet. Did you know?

Kam1825:

I answered your questions. Only thing left is arths of a couple of shabads. Arths can't be made available in a day or two. I know what your point is in that shabad. It would be similar to "Meeh Paeaa Parmesur Paaeaa". Also, when I give you arths of that 'Garur Chday' shabad, you will ask for arths of more shabads like that. And we will be having a teekaa here. If you promise to not to continue to ask arths, I won't mind posting arths of a couple of shabads online. I can't promise you to post arths of every shabad you want translated. It is best to get Baldev Singh's book. His next one will be on Sidh Ghost. Then it is arths of bhatt swayas. Arths of several other shabads have already been posted if you want to check them out.

Here is a list of shabads with arths in Baldev Singh's book.

ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਨਾਮਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਉਚਰੈ 1

ਬਾਬਾ ਫਿਰ ਮਕੇ ਗਯਾ 8

ਨਾਮਾ ਛੀਂਬਾ ਆਖੀਐ 10

ਹਸਤ ਖੇਲਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਆਇਆ 12

ਮੋ ਕਉ ਤੂੰ ਨ ਬਿਸਾਰਿ ਤੂ ਨ ਬਿਸਾਰਿ 16

ਪਾੜ ਪੜੋਸਣਿ ਪੂਛਿ ਲੇ ਨਾਮਾ 20

ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਪੂਛੈ ਸੁਨੁ ਬੇ ਨਾਮਾ 28

ਦੂਧੁ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ 52

ਕਰਿ ਅਬਦਾਲੀ ਭੇਸਵਾ 59

ਧਨਿ ਧੰਨਿ ਓ ਰਾਮ ਬੇਨੁ ਬਾਜੈ 64

ਜਉ ਗੁਰਦੇਉ ਸਿਹਜ ਨਿਕਸਾਈ 71

ਭਗਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਜੀ 76

ਨਾ ਤੂ ਆਵਹਿ ਵਸਿ 82

ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਂਧੀ ਭਗਤੁ ਛਡਾਵੈ 84

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਜਮੁ ਡਰਿਓ 86

ਤੇਰੇ ਬੰਕੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਦੰਤ ਰੀਸਾਲਾ 91

ਅਪਨੇ ਛੂਟਨ ਕੋ ਜਤਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ 93

ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ 98

ਮੇਰੀ ਪਟੀਆ ਲਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੋਪਾਲਾ 103

ਆਪੇ ਦੈਤ ਲਾਇ ਦਿਤੇ 112

ਸੰਡਾ ਮਰਕਾ ਜਾਇ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ 117

ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਪਠਾਏ ਪੜਨ ਸਾਲ 122

ਮੇਰੀ ਪਟੀਆ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ 127

ਗੰਗ ਗੁਸਾਇਨਿ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰ 137

ਭੁਜਾ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਭਿਲਾ ਕਰਿ ਡਾਰਿਓ 140

ਰਾਜਨ ਕਉਨੁ ਤੁਮਾਰੈ ਆਵੈ 145

ਨੀਚ ਜਾਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਤਿਆ ਉਤਮ ਪਦਵੀ ਪਾਇ 151

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਈਐ 154

ਆਇਆ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਬਿਦਰ ਦੇ 162

ਅਜਾਮਲ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਕੀਨੀ 174

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ 181

ਅਚੁਤ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ 184

ਪੁਤˆØੀ ਗੰਢੁ ਪਵੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ 202

ਬਿਧਵਾ ਕਸ ਨ ਭਈ ਮਹਤਾਰੀ 209

ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ 214

I am waiting for your answer on medhni? Why earth is called medhni in SGGS ji.

You do not know that and hence keeping quiet.

You have access to many IPs. This is well known.

Let us know what do you understand by naam simran?

Explain first waht is naam?

How do we get naam in sikhism?

Gurptsingh1699 was guptsingh84 on sikhsangat.com

There he says

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php/topic/48482-dasam-granth/

y is Harmanjit Singh 'Akali' of Toronto.

I am in no way pro or anti Dasam Granth, but bloom you do not make sense, sorry.

Inder, don't create a scene yo. I'm 200% anti DG and I love to do Waheguru Simran. I wake up early in morning as instructed by Guru Raam Daas in his bani 'Gur Satgur Ka Jo Sikh Akhaye, So Bhalke Uth Har Naam Dhiavey". As I said before I love to recite Waheguru. I believe in reincarnation, since it IS a part of Nankian philosophy. I bow to Shabad Guru, yes. It is in no way a form of idol worship. SGGS Maharaj should be kept in Prakash, whoever keeps it in cupboards is a maha moorakh.

Stop spreading lies on sites like SikhSangat. Your one big liar.

Since you guys love to say Mahakaal is the destroyer of Kaal, would you also say that Maha

Moorakh is the destroyer of Moorakhs?

Mahakaal has 4 arms, loves booze and green stuff. Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha in his Gurmat Martand says that it is necessary for a Sikh of Mahakaal to do Nashapatta... You do that?

Your emotional blackmail and rants won't have any effect on me, do straight debate.

Amrit Sanchaar Banis are decided by the Guru Panth. We can not change that. Just like these 5 were finalised in the 1920s-1930s, it could be changed by Panth any time in future. Read Puratan Granths and try to find what Banis were read instead of asking us.

My first point against Dasam Granth:

1.

* Bachittar Natak says Guru Nanak Dev, Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amar Das were Bedis. (page 128)

* SGGS on Ang 1396 and 1401 (Bhatt Bani) clearly say that Guru Amar Das was Bhalla.

* Historically Guru Angad Dev was a Trehan and Guru Amar Das (as stated in Gurbani) a Bhalla.

Big time contradiction. Who is right? Bachittar Natak or SGGS? Pick one please. You can't pick both as they are contradictory. Pick one. If you pick SGGS then discard DG, if you pick DG then you disown Guru Granth Sahib Ji... In that case I'll ask you to form your own "Kub Shyam Panthis" religion.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

So here is a duplicate khalsa fauj who was put under moderation on sikhsangat and ran away from there.There he was telling that he belives in Dasam Granth partially. Here he is saying that he does not believe.

These lie machines only purpose is to indulge in propaganda and waste our time in bickerings.

Now this site is being swamped by them.

Guptsingh why do not you do some research on Dasam Granth on this site. There is a lot of material to rebut your nonsense.

Bring these guys to Toronto. We accept.

There is no use to have debate with kiddos and retards.