singh2

People need to realize the cause that resulted in this scuffle.If fauji does not believe in Dasam granth he should keep it a private affair.Name calling and ridiculing Dasam granth by him had resulted in this incident.He should learn a lesson from this.

I hope he understands that civilzed people do not criticize belief system of others.If he does not behave i am sure the subject material should be referred to appropriate authorites. Laws are applicable to everyone. His utterances seem to fall in hate crime category.

Harjas ji

You wrote That Bhagat Namdev was a follower of vaishnavism. I gave you his verse that says he was a believer of Nirgun God.

You are saying the same thing in reply but in a different way.Let us see first what is Vaishnavism .

Web definition of vaishnavism is given below

Vaishnavism is a tradition of Hinduism, distinguished from other schools by its worship of Vishnu

Vishnu or his aaociates avtaras Rama and krishna as original and supreme God.

Unquote

Sikh philosophy of our Gurus discard the above. Only those writings of Bhagats were included in SGGS ji which fell

in line with our Gurus philosophy.

Gurbani says

ਸਵ ਬਿਰੰਚਿ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਮੋਨਿ ਜਨ ਗਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾਹਿ ਗਤਾ ॥

: Siv biranch aru sagal moni jan gahi na sakaahi gataa:

Shiva, Brahma and all the silent sages cannot understand the state of the Supreme Being

SGGS 498

ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥

क्रिसन औ बिसन जपे तुहि कोटिक राम रहीम भली बिधि धिआयो ॥

Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਹਿ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥

ब्रहम जपिओ अरु स्मभु थपिओ तहि ते तुहि को किनहूं न बचायो ॥

Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥

I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥

ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥

They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥

महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥

Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥

ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥

Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.

Dasam Granth sahib

Harjas describes Bhagat Namdev as vaishnva.Vaishnva is a follower of vishnu and his avtars like Krishna and Rama.

She needs to read Gurbani before making such nonsense claims.

ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਰਾਮਚੰਦੁ ਸੋ ਭੀ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ ॥

paaNday tumraa raamchand so bhee aavat daykhi-aa thaa.

O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too

ਰਾਵਨ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਰਬਰ ਹੋਈ ਘਰ ਕੀ ਜੋਇ ਗਵਾਈ ਥੀ ॥੩॥

raavan saytee sarbar ho-ee ghar kee jo-ay gavaa-ee thee. ||3||

; he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. ||3||

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥

hindoo poojai dayhuraa musalmaan maseet.

The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque.

ਨਾਮੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਨ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੪॥੩॥੭॥

naamay so-ee sayvi-aa jah dayhuraa na maseet. ||4||3||7||

Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. ||4||3||7||

SGGS 874

Yes, Krishna is AKAAL. But the formless aspect is not being described as blue-skinned, murali, vrindavan, with gopis, etc. So obviously what is being described is a sargun aspect. And that aspect is unmistakably Krishna roop, not AKAAL. It is not a translation error.

No, he is not akaal.gurbani does not recognise him as akal.

ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥

किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै बनाए ॥ किते राम से मेटि डारे उपाए ॥

Somewhere He hath created millions of the servants like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama.

ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਏ ॥੨੮॥

जिते राम से क्रिसन हुइ बिसन आए ॥ तितिओ काल खापिओ न ते काल घाए ॥२८॥

All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28.

Dasam Granth sahib

His buddy was emailing that he was attacked in parking lot. I got that email. It says that he was slapped.

Khalsa Fauji, a true Khalsa would not run away from a fight even if he were faced by a Fauj of Sava Lakh. I don’t have one percent of respect for you as a person, but if you had stood your ground and fought like a true Fauji of the Khalsa then I would respect for you. Instead what you do is, you see a few Singhs waiting for you, getting scared you run away in panic into the Gurdwara and call the police with you trembling hands. Vah!! What a brave Fauji are!!! LOL!!

I’m sure 50 years from now Dhadhis will sing Vaaraan in praise of the bravery you displayed that day LOL!!!!

Although there is a contradiction in story. Your own supporter says that you were physically beaten up.

This is the real sum up by Mithar ji. His friend says that he was slapped.A khalsa does not go in hiding and lock the doors from inside.

I am surprised all these hot headed panthis would love to attack an lone man with his father didn't use that approach instead of restoring to bullying and violence.

That is what he is saying. i do not believe what he says.

He was not alone. he had a band of friends to shield him . Singh who countered him was alone.

There is already a Hukamnama from akal takhat citing Dasam granth sahib as a sacred sikh scripture. It is our joint responsibility of sikhs to counter slandeous comments about Dasam Granth.It is not duty of any single group.

The Lord being described here is unmistakably Krishna, not AKAAL. And the adventures being described all come from Puranic and Shastric literature.

Lord is always akaal for sikhs and not krishna.

Quotes which DG lovers use against me are now being used against them to promote devi worship and avtarvaad. That is why I say, lets get proper arths of Gurbani done. But no, hatred for anti-DGs is blinding you guys. As a result, Sikh faith is being attacked from all around. In the end, truth will win but this is just making the process long.

Dasam Granth sahib is not the subject of discussion here. Keep your hatred for Dasam granth sahib to yourself. do not spread that here.

They did not have any personal issue with you. The point here is that do not hurt others religious sentiments by passing slanderous comments on their scriptures.

This is something you should learn lesson from.

Balbir singh ji

The verses are very clear.Do not find fault with translations.

ਮਹਾ ਮਾਈ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ ॥

mahaa maa-ee kee poojaa karai.

One who worships the Great Goddess Maya

ਨਰ ਸੈ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥

nar sai naar ho-ay a-utarai. ||3||

will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. ||3||

ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥

too kahee-at hee aad bhavaanee.

You are called the Primal Goddess.

ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ ॥੪॥

mukat kee baree-aa kahaa chhapaanee. ||4||

At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4|

SGGS 874

They were nothing more than goondas of dhirmal who sent goondas to attack Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji.

It is foolishness to equate oneself with Guru sahib.

But the news of beating was emailed by one of your own friends. It started like this. You are on that mailing list too.

Email by a friend of Khalsa fauj

Quote

I was not present there, however I have learnt that a group of Sikh has attached Harman Singh and his father at Sikh Lehar Gurudawra

unquote

ਅਨਹਦ ਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਦ ਬਾਨੀ ॥

अनहद रूप अनाहद बानी ॥

He is Limitless Entity and hath infinite celestial strain.

ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨਿ ਜਿਹ ਬਸਤ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥

चरन सरनि जिह बसत भवानी ॥

The goddess Durga takes refuge at His Feet and abides there.

Dasam granth sahib

raamkalee mehlaa 5.

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

mahimaa na jaaneh bayd.

The Vedas do not know His greatness.

barahmay nahee jaaneh bhayd.

Brahma does not know His mystery.

avtaar na jaaneh ant.

Incarnated beings do not know His limit.

parmaysar paarbarahm bay-ant. ||1||

The Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God, is infinite. ||1||

apnee gat aap jaanai.

Only He Himself knows His own state.

sun sun avar vakhaanai. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Others speak of Him only by hearsay. ||1||Pause||

sankraa nahee jaaneh bhayv.

Shiva does not know His mystery.

khojat haaray dayv.

The gods gave grown weary of searching for Him.

ਦੇਵੀਆ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨੈ ਮਰਮ ॥

dayvee-aa nahee jaanai maram.

The goddesses do not know His mystery.

ਸਭ ਊਪਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ

sabh oopar alakh paarbarahm. ||2||

Above all is the unseen, Supreme Lord God. ||2||

apnai rang kartaa kayl.

The Creator Lord plays His own plays.

aap bichhorai aapay mayl.

He Himself separates, and He Himself unites.

ik bharmay ik bhagtee laa-ay.

Some wander around, while others are linked to His devotional worship.

Apxw kIAw Awip jxwey ]3] (894-8, rwmklI, mÚ 5)

apnaa kee-aa aap janaa-ay. ||3||

By His actions, He makes Himself known. ||3||

santan kee sun saachee saakhee.

Listen to the true story of the Saints.

so boleh jo paykheh aakhee.

They speak only of what they see with their eyes.

nahee layp tis punn na paap.

He is not involved with virtue or vice.

naanak kaa parabh aapay aap. ||4||25||36||

Nanak's God is Himself all-in-

SGGS ji 894

I am informed that so called khalsa fauj was beaten by a singh at kala afghana center at Toronto. Khalsa fauj used to write his own poetry and say sarcastically that he has made his own Jap sahib.

Some of kala afghana cronies came to his aid but ran away and bolted kala afghana center from inside.

Does anyone have more information on this.

Sikhs consider chandi as kirpan and do not venerate any physical entity.Especially when Dasam Granth is very clear on this.Go by the scripture and not by stray opinions.

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥

तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥

O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥

तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥

Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.

ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥

चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥

She struck the demon with that Chandi, the devourer of demons (that is the sword).

ਕੋਪਰ ਚੂਰਿ ਚਵਾਣੀ ਲੱਥੀ ਕਰਗ ਲੈ ॥

कोपर चूरि चवाणी ल्थी करग लै ॥

Then

ਲਈ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਦੁਰਗਸਾਹਿ ਵਰਜਾਗਣਿ ਭਾਰੀ ॥

लई भगउती दुरगसाहि वरजागणि भारी ॥

Durga held out her sword, appearing like great lustrous fire;

ਲਾਈ ਰਾਜੇ ਸੁੰਭ ਨੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਐ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥

लाई राजे सु्मभ नो रतु पीऐ पिआरी ॥

She struck it on the king Sumbh and this lovely weapon drinks blood.

It broke the skull and face into pieces and pierced through the skeleton.

Chandi Di vaar, Dasam Granth

Sangat Ji

All this bickering name calling , wheres the piar

Why not have a discussion , in order to make sangat aware .

As far as i can gather the main issue is

1. why was bhog done of Dasam Granth in presense of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , could

the Dasam Granth not be read on the side ?

2. Darshan Ragi / others saying Dasam Granth is not complete writing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jin

is this the case /not ?

How can the sangat be educated ?

What is bad if anything in the Dasam Granth which is causing all this bad vibes ?

( please no name calling , bickering etc... )

Bhog of dasam Granth is not the issue.There is extensive discussion DG on this forum.Check archives.

99.9 per cent sikhs consider DG as bani of Guru sahib.Writing against DG is blasphemy and akal takhat has issued hukamnama calling such elements as mischief mongers.

Changing my name doesn't changes me. Answer to your quote "Pathar se sir takraoge to, sir toot jayega, chhittar kya cheez hai"

Who accepts DG? Who gave the authority to acept it? Its only people who doesn't have full faith in SGGS, they do. Is SGGS not sampuran?

For your knowlegde, "Kaur" doesn't comes from DG. The most important "Khande Dee Pahul" or "Amrit Ceremony" is not even mentioned in DG, who you people are trying to put on Sri Guru Gobind Singh's name. Check out the your resources then write something.

A sikh is baptized with banis of Dasam Granth and then he gets these names singh and kaur.Read sikh history before making shameless claims.Since you do not believe in DG youo are not a sikh in general and you have no business to use name kaur.

We know real target of gurnindaks is Amrit ceremony. Is Kaur mentioned in SGGS ji? If not why you are using it? Remove it and add begum/kumari after Mighty.

If someone doesn't knows about the something, guide him don't misguide. Prof. appeared in front of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, not in puppet Jathedars room. Newspapers and TV channels showed it.

Akal Takht is a not mere building, its a concept, which needs to be understood.

3 of these Jathedras including Gurbachan Singh don't follow sri Akal Takht Sahib's Sikh Rehat Maryada. These puppets are themselves Tankhaiya, how can they call someone else.

By excommunicating, doesn't mean the end of the world. And to in this scenario, the puppets have made Sri Akal Takht as mere police station, where Babas like Dhuma, Dhanwant singh, Daljit Singh Chicago and more, go untouched, politicians like Badal and family, no matter how much they do against Sikhi, they are untouched. These are the people who have demoloshed the significance of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, not Prof. He himself says in kirtans samagams to follow SRM according to AKT.

Might begum ji

Again same rants.Are you not ashamed of calling him a professor? How can a 10 grade become a professor. Stop lying you fakes.

In Punjabi there is a saying

" Kasaian de kehan te dangar nahin marde"

On wishes of butchers cattle do not die

You may curse akal takhat but it is not going to take our respect away from this great instituion of sikhs. Only traitors who work at behest of anti sikh elements condemn akal takhat.

By saying Atheists doens't make any difference. Say anything. Truth remains truth. DG supporters just know the language of killing 'maar deyange, sodh deyange....". If you people had some courgae, why did Hari Singh Randhawa ran away. Why is Iqbal Singh so called Jathedar of Patna Sahib, not able to answer even a single question.

Worldy degress never count in religion.

As Gurbani says : Jo prani nis din dheaavey, padaya anpadaya paramgat paave

Pad pad gaddi laddiye..........Nanak likhe ik gal hor houmay jhakhnaa jhaakh

By the way Prof is not in the hole, he is going everywhere in India for kirtan samagams, more to come in coming days.

Kumari ji

Your fake prof will be a thing of past after Jan 7.He will join club of akirtghan and traitors who are already sent our of panth on this issue.

What debate this fake prof will have when he could not read one line from Dasam Granth. Do not tell me that his throat was sore and aching.

By saying Atheists doens't make any difference. Say anything. Truth remains truth. DG supporters just know the language of killing 'maar deyange, sodh deyange....". If you people had some courgae, why did Hari Singh Randhawa ran away. Why is Iqbal Singh so called Jathedar of Patna Sahib, not able to answer even a single question.

Worldy degress never count in religion.

As Gurbani says : Jo prani nis din dheaavey, padaya anpadaya paramgat paave

Pad pad gaddi laddiye..........Nanak likhe ik gal hor houmay jhakhnaa jhaakh

By the way Prof is not in the hole, he is going everywhere in India for kirtan samagams, more to come in coming days.

Most of these programmes were conducted at residences of his backers or anti sikh stooges of agencies.

This was an excercise to gain propaganda mileage and diminish akal takhat respect among sikhs. This was done by Govt after invading Golden temple in 1984.The purpose is take sikhs away from their center that is akal takhat.

Darshan ragi is doing their bidding now.But he failed miserably in this.

Now you are talking something senseless. I don't consider Charitropakhyan as writings of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji. Yes, you should be aware of me, coz I am Sikh of SGGS not of DG. SGGS gives pure thoughts not venomous as DG gives.

You are lying above. Since you say that you are a sikh of SGGS only , you do not acknowledge any composition of Dasam Granth as of Guru Gobind singh sahib. Liars are caught on their own words.

Since you do not believe in any bani of Dasam granth then why are you having discussion here.

Coz these puppet Jathedars work under Boss Badal. Due to the SGPC elections in near future, only Prof. was thier main enemy who can damage them. So they tried to eliminate him. But, its all way round now. Sikhs are conducting Kirtan Samagams every where.

Mighty kumari/begum ji

Sharabi/kababi have no chracter to damage otehrs.You are mistaken as most of these so called programmes in his followers' homes and not at gurudwaras. had it been so this kababi would have performed at gurudwara Rakab ganj on Guru sahib's birthday.

Harjas all you write is a trash far from truth.Our gurudwaras had come under mahants for sometime and they had introduced unsikh practices during that period to earn money.That is why akali agitation was there and Gurdwara control was wrested from these mahants.

Sikhs do not believe in any such eight armed deity and Dasam granth strongly denounces deities.Read it to know that.

About Dasam Granth Parbodh Sabha, the newly created organisation to counter Anti-DG brigade. What a joke. All Babas, and few pseudo scholars. Challenge can be accepted, but before that they need to accept Sri Akal Takht Sahib's Sikh Rehat Maryada, which none of these follow. Nihangs, Taksals and all these Babas have their own maryada. Dhuma and party do Chalihe, hawan, 25 singh's Akhand Paath, DG parkash and all other crappy rituals which is against Sikh Rehat Maryada. How can there be discussion, untill they leave all this and come on atleast a common plateform.

The above is a typical retort by these atheists.This is a cover not to enter a debate as that will kill them in public. For your info babas are not challenging this fake prof.Challenge is from real professors about half a dozen who have worldly degrees and also professors of religion.

Bring out your rag tag brigade of 8 and 10 graders who attach fake titles with their names.They will never dare to come out of rat holes as they ahve no knowledge of scriptures.

what is happening on january 7 ?

Amardeep ji

we are not facing only blasphemy of darsahn ragi.We are also facing a public relations compaign of anti sikh forces that are behind Ragi.

He goes to akal takhat to get propaganda mileage. he will go again but will not appear before akal takhat.This is a way to systematically erode respect of akal takhat from sikhs mind so that sikhs as a minority do not have a central command to guide them.

In all essence if he does not care to go there he will be excommunicated.then we will ahve some more to deal with after he is gone.