GillAUS

Fateh!

Makes one wonder what happened to us in the last few centuries, doesn't it?

K.

Complacency and contentment is what went wrong bro - the truth is that many of our lot are living far more comfortable lives than our forefathers did, hence we have gone from being ferocious lions/tigers who had to fight to get everything, to lazy Garfield-like pussy cats.

I can't remember where I read it, but there is a quote from a book or report that states that in times of war and crisis, the numbers of Sikhs always increase.

Is there even such a thing as a devta in the mythological sense as displayed in hindu tv shows with devtas with 4 arms flying in the air

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥

साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥

Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)

ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥

कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥

And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15.

Are'nt they just normal people ?

Well yes, that's basically also what I was trying to say. I think that Guru Ji is showing that these 'devtas' are just actually humans who may have achieved some certain good deeds. However, on the same token, they are also not infallible and as such, susceptible to maya and God's hukam just like everyone else.

In regards to the devis/devtas, I am of the opinion that Guru Ji has humanised these individuals to show that they are under Akaal Purakh's Hukam and as such, are in fact not 'devis' and 'devtas' at all.

As for the fact in regards to whether or not they are merely historical or mythological - can't they be both? Like what brother Kaljug mentioned, sometimes history can become mythologised (Is that a word? I'm not sure lol).

As such, if we take them to be historical figures, it would not be absurd at all.

Additionally, we need to see such figures as not being 'Hindu' but rather part of the wider indigenous Indic culture from which Sikhi was born and flourished! No need to become like Pakis and think that Sikhs just fell from the sky!

Regardless of this current (and even previous) rows involving the Kirpan, isn't the Kirpan meant to be a shastar?

I mean, is this not the original purpose for Guru Sahib bestowing us with this particular Kakkar.

It's unfortunate that due to Western pressure (as well as our own Sikhs abusing the use of the Kirpan) that it has now been forced to be denigrated to a 'ceremonial'/symbolic 'dagger'.

My local jurisdiction here in Australia provides the following under the 'Weapons Act':

16—Kirpaans

(1) A member of the Sikh religion is exempt from the offences of possession and use of a

knife under section 15(1c)( b ) (- see below -) of the Act to the extent that the member possesses, wears or

carries the knife for the purpose of complying with the requirements of the Sikh religion.

(2) In this clause—

knife does not include a butterfly knife, flick knife, push knife or trench knife within the

meaning of Schedule 2.

(1c) A person who—

(a) manufactures, sells, distributes, supplies or otherwise deals in, prohibited

weapons; or

( b ) has possession of, or uses, a prohibited weapon,

is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty: $10 000 or imprisonment for 2 years.

I have not come across any cases in which the Kirpan has been used and as such I'm not sure what constitutes 'use' here. However, it would appear that atleast the Kirpan is recognised here as a shastar.

Adil is a Muslim name. It is common for Muslims to have Hindu Gotra/last names since most of their ancestors were Hindus who were forcibly converted to the religion of peace.

No? Forcibly converted? Never!

Come on mate, you should know that it was due to the natural love of the deen that South Asia's Muslims came into the Islamic fold.

Mahmud of Ghazni and Ghauri were just peaceful explorers searching for possible trade links - their religion just happened to rub off onto the locals without any hint of coercion whatsoever.

/end sarcastic rant.

Sorry guys, too much caffeine and procrastination is not a good combo!

Great, now we have something in common with the Catholics

I sincerely hope this is not true, however given the age we live in, anything is possible.

Hey all,

Came across this artist, Mandeep Sethi, who appears to be based in California.

I downloaded an album which was available for free download, and there is a gem of a song on there called '1984'. I think it is an awesome track and I urge all of you to give it a listen.

I've uploaded the single track at http://www.zshare.net/audio/633705414cc5b457/

However, the rest of the album is just as good, and is available at http://www.organikrebirth.com/Paleofuture/ALBUM.html

Also, his MySpace can be found at http://www.myspace.com/mandeepsethI

Check it out guys, support our own Sikh artists!

Peace.

Fateh!

Erdogan calls the riots in Xinjiang a "kind of genocide' and Turkish Muslims burn Chinese flags. This is just a day after the Turkish Industry Minister urges Turks to boycott Chinese goods:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8145451.stm

This is coming from the mouth of the head of state of a nominally sectarian but in reality a Muslim country, who is blaming the Chinese government for the murder of the Chinese Han population at the hands of Muslim Uighur rioters. This is the same man and the same country that still denies the 1.5 million dead in the Armenian Holocaust at the hamnds of the Ottoman Empire.

It seems that it is only a genocide when Muslims die.

Regards,

K.

Good luck to that, considering 99.9% of goods are produced in China.

Shows the true intellect of these people.

On another note, nice of our buddies across the border kick up a fuss about this

So much for Muslim unity ay, Pakistan? Oh that's right, can't upset big daddy China. The shameless hypocrites would rather send suicide missions to places like Mumbai.

Now this midget scholar has vanished in thin air. That is what he does when he is not able to forward

any constructive arguement. he needs to learn the difference between apple and orange first.

Chal koi na Bhai Sahib, as we know, the truth always prevails.

Let these fools keep blowing off their steam.

No matter how loud they bark, they will never be able to change the fact that Dasam Pita Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji's writings will ALWAYS be considered to be Gurbani by the majority of the Sikh community.

That being said, keep up the momentum Inder Singh ji, you are doing a good job by putting these fools in their place.

Stay in chardhi kalaa!

Meaning of Mahakaal Shabad according to Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindrenwale:

http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...g&Itemid=73

This so-called 'Fauji' would rather believe in the propaganda of 'Singh' Sabha Canada.

The opinion of a respected Gursikh such as Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindranwale does not matter to these fools.

They believe in the words of weekend soormas and scholars rather than respected Gursikhs such as those of the Taksaal and Nihang Dals, who live and breathe Gurmat throughout their lives.

If he really dismisses the opinions of such knowledgeable Gursikhs, he really has no leg to stand on.

It's almost like if a nuclear physicist were to dismiss the ideas of Einstein in relation to physics - it would be ridiculous!

'Khalsa Fauj', you have actually stated that Taksal and Nihangs are posing as Sikhs.

Are you serious mate?

Baba Deep Singh ji and Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindranwale were just posers?

The great Akaali Phoola Singh ji was a poser?

Is that what you you think?

If so, you are beyond belief.

So who are the true Sikhs? Ghagga? Kala-Afghana?

This Seekr AKA Tejwant Singh ought to be banned indefinitely.

He calls others perverts, when he is the one harping on about singh2's wife's and daughter's reactions to what he perceives Charitropakhan to be.

He obviously deliberately did not participate in the now-closed thread where I called him out directly (I did this via a thread rather than PM, so that there is no chance for him to make more baseless statements against me).

And he always dodges questions that are posed to him.

I say his contributions are no longer of any use and he might as well stick to SPN, where his nonsense is appreciated.

Come on mate, you can reply to the other thread concerning you, why not reply to this one?

I'm waiting on my apology as I clearly deserve one after your baseless claims and hurtful and hateful statements.

This thread awaits your presence, so please, grow a pair and lets see who takes who to task.

Oh Seeker where art thou?

Deliberately ignoring this thread no doubt.

Who is running away now?

You have shown you true colours.

What a shame!

What a shame!

GillAUS,

Guru Fateh.

Once again you are not being truthful and shows how much falsehood is there within. You called those who had different opinions about DG as Wahhabis and was taken to task by me for which you apologised. It is all on record and you know it. But people like you when get caught always try to run away.

As far as your above statement, I have nothing for or against KA. It is the itch people like you have and accuse others of some nonsense that you know nothing about because you have lost the debate and have nothing more to debate about. Your hatred towards Sikhi and absence of Sikhi Gyan shows that you are quick to label people and then lie about things. Not a Sikhi trait, I am afraid. What a Shame

Now if you want to have any interaction about SGGS, our ONLY GURU, it will be an honour on my part to do that.:-)

Tejwant Singh

What a shame!

What a shame!

What I have apologised for has been posted for the entire forum to see.

As stated, I did not apologise for calling Kala-Afghanists Wahabbists. In fact, that post I made at SPN actually reiterates my view that they are Wahabbists!

So now, an apology from you for stating the above-mentioned hateful and hurtful comments would be much appreciated!

Seeker is a liar of the first order. he will lie to derive false plaesure.

I know as i was a aprticipant in that thread. You are correct.

If one of prepared to falsely attribute subject matter to Dasam Pita's writings (as has been done in the Charitropakhyan thread), then twisting around what I have actually apologised for is nothing!

Seekr ji,

Is this the apology you speak of:

Originally posted at: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-s...html#post102285

GurFateh,

I apologise to any of you whom I have caused to feel upset by my statement regarding 'wahabbists'.

I can assure you that I did not mean to equate anybody here with terrorism/terrorists.

By 'wahabbist', I was drawing a comparison to the EXTREMELY over-zealous attitude that the initial founder/s of this doctrine had in regards to purging or 'purifying' their respective religion from perceived 'impurities' and 'corruptions'.

I was in no way referring to the awful terrorist attacks that the modern day practitioners of this doctrine engage in.

Moreover, I was not taking any jibes at anybody here at this forum - I was merely referring to the broader spectrum of those people in the Sikh community that have this similar attitude towards our religion, i.e. Inder Ghagga, Kala Afghana types.

My apologies once again if I have offended.

Peace.

Once again, I am only calling the Kala-Afghanists (those who have been actively promoting anti-Dasam Granth filth) Wahabbis.

My apology was for equating Wahabbism with terrorism and for possibly offending any SPN users who felt that I was calling them a terrorist.

I don't see how you are 'taking me to task'?

I have searched through all the posts I have made at SPN and there a no further apologies.

Case closed.

GillAUS,

Guru Fateh.

You said the same nonsense in SPN forum when taken to task by me and then you apologised and I thought you had understood what you said was wrong and your apology was accepted. Was that a fake apology from one who calls himself a Sikh? A Sikh is not supposed to be a fake one but I guess you have proved me and the whole Khalsa Panth wrong.

Tejwant Singh

So are you saying that you are a Kala-Afganist , as I was referring Kala-Afghanists by the above statement.

I am not a fake and nor am I 'taken to task'.

Jarnail Singh 'Arshi' has had the longest mid life crisis I have ever seen!

I have been active on the internet since around 1996, and have seen his presence on various online Sikh forums since that time.

His way of typing has been the same since then.

I suspect the midlife crisis has been going on from that time as well

What I fear the likes of Inder Singh/Singh2 are doing is trying to "Talibanise" Sikhi, where people are either Blasphemors or Believers. By Singh2's logic all non-Sikhs are Blasphemers because they don't believe in Sikh scriptures. Incredibly narrow minded and incredibly silly.

I think it's the other way around, the Kala-Afghanists are trying to be like Taliban Wahabbists - deeming anything that doesnt fall within their narrow concept of Sikhi as Anti-Gurmat.

On ANOTHER note, someone needs to REMOVE the CAPS button from 'GYANI' Jarnail ARSHI's keyboard as HIS typing STYLE reflects his understanding OF Dasam Bani - WARPED.

I used to support the idea of Khalistan when I was in my teens, but as I got older I realised that although the idea is very appealing, it's execution would have been unsuccessful.

I think that perhaps in the 1980's, Khalistan was a viable solution to a lot of the problems that faced the Sikh community in Punjab. But much time has passed, and although things may not be perfect in Punjab and India, I feel that a Khalistan in this day and age is not a viable solution.

Nevertheless, if Sikhs did manage to secure an independent nation, I would personally prefer for it to be based on the idea of Khalsa Raj (rather than a 'Khalistan') in the sense that the state would not interfere in the affairs and practices of Sikhs (which would ensure that in a religious sense, Sikhi would be autonomous) and conversely, affairs of the state would be conducted in a relatively secular manner.

Just my two cents.

Given the fact that so many of our current Punjabi songs revolve around the usual nonsense, I've come across something refreshing from this guy, Major Sandhu.

Check it out:

These people try to do the same to Lebonese people in Australia, but the Lebelonese have unity and strike back hard at these racists. That is how the early Indians dealth with racists in the UK during the 50s and 60s.

Actually brother, the Lebanese that were having problems with the rednecks, were just as bad as they were. They are both scum imo.

There have been incidents involving Sikh/Punjabi/Indian students being attacked by gangs of Lebanese thugs in Sydney as of late.

You can read about it here:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/harris-park...90610-c2z0.html

Another of the recent incidents has involving a Sikh and his dastaar:

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...15-2682,00.html

The worst thing is that with the incident involving the Sikh student, the so-called Indian community president dismissed it as racism and said he was 'in the wrong place at the wrong time'.

Statements like that really rile me up. On top of these attacks, you have these spine-less apologists as community 'leaders'.

On another note, as this is my first post I'd like to extend a warm 'Sat Sri Akaal/Fateh' to all. I really like the overall tone of this forum as compared to some of the other ones I've been frequenting. I am glad to see that many of the forum members do not hold a strictly black and white view of Sikhi. How refreshing!