jaikaara

The problem is ..there is one camp who simply doesnt want to accept women. another camp which accepts women with conditions applied , if we had valiant women like Mai Bhago and Mata Sahib Devi/Devaa ..we do not know how they were part of the Khalsa and how were they initiated.

Best is ..follow what you feel ..Andar Hukame Sabko ..Baahar Hukam Na Koe...

This has been the scenario amongst several families , sehajdharis and monne who's ancestry was keshdhari. I wouldnt blame them entirely because there are groups who spread hatred and have a bigoted mindset.

My close friend is son of a Granthi and he too doesnt not participate in any Sikhi religious events.

my mother think adopting other religion ( my grandfather was an amritdhari ) is a sin and god will not be happy but now there is hindu dominance in famly like my grandmother my aunts all are hindu my mother always taunt me when i go to guridwara. when talk her about sikhi shi just stop me and says they are not our .

Was Chaupa Singh the "culprit" as stated in this book? Did he revert back to the Hindu way of thinking regarding women? His rehetnama also apparently states that women should view their husbands as "God" - I seem to remember this statement somewhere in the smritis as well??? In any case, Gurbani actually says there is only ONE we are to see as God... and that's Waheguru... so doesn't that statement of telling women to view their husbands as God, actually go against what's in SGGSJ? Who is higher authority? SGGSJ or Chaupa Singh's Rhetnama?

I do not agree to playing blame game on the hindus ..if that was that true then there would be no women scholars nor would there be women priests conducting religious rituals ..and i know a woman who voluntarily conducts pooja...so please its better we keep our hatred in our pockets.

Satkirin ..i understand history can never be unbiased..and please be clear on my stand ..I am not against women taking amrit and tying dastaars...this is their choice..i am not in favor of curbing one's choice..my only question is there was something different way back which i had seen and now something different emerging ..my feeling is something is being infused by certain groups with a weird idea to cut off from the roots..as we clearly see anti Dasam lobby ..so please do not take me as one of the male chauvinists who thinks of women as a weaker gender .. ..i cannot comment on Bhai Chaupa singh ji since i have no knowledge

Also:

Was Chaupa Singh the "culprit" as stated in this book? Did he revert back to the Hindu way of thinking regarding women? His rehetnama also apparently states that women should view their husbands as "God" - I seem to remember this statement somewhere in the smritis as well??? In any case, Gurbani actually says there is only ONE we are to see as God... and that's Waheguru... so doesn't that statement of telling women to view their husbands as God, actually go against what's in SGGSJ? Who is higher authority? SGGSJ or Chaupa Singh's Rhetnama?

favor hindus !!!! please...its akj internal jargon !!!

Aha the link I was trying to find...

"From the scholar Ghulam Mohyiuddin, an emissary to the mughal emperor, who observed the first amrit sanchar, vaisakhi 1699, "Though orthodox men have opposed him, about twenty thousand men and women have taken baptism of steel at his hand on the first day.The Guru has also told the gathering: I'll call myself Gobind Singh only if I can make the eek sparrows pounce upon the hawks and tear them; only if one combatant of my force equals a lakh and a quarter of the enemy."

20,000 men AND women. no restrictions on who is a combatant.

in my research, persian and mughal sources are more reliable than sikh sources, who often wrote about events 50 years after they happened, and then those documents were clearly edited to favor hindus..."

you are thinking emotionally

Its in Guru Ji's 52 Hukams that ALL Sikhs are to tie turbans. Also, SGGSJ says " Let the total awareness be the turban on your head" and it does not state that is for men only. I believe there is another spot that says to comb hair and tie turban twice a day.... but I am not sure on that one.

And why would Maryada not be the same? There is no restriction on jewelry etc. Just piercings for ears and nose for 'hanging ornaments' other than that jewelry is allowed.

And.... how would wearing a dastar take away from beauty???? WHat are you trying to say? That we are not as beautiful because we chose to tie a dastar? Good thing I am not wearing it to be 'beautiful' then....

Satkirin ..rather making it a ego issue i feel we need to introspect ..say if in case women were not given amrit ..what would be the reason..i have lived in india since i was born..its been 37 years ..in 37 years of my life its been a few years i started seeing women wearing a dastaar...i do not know of the rest of you ..it is these days that i find sikh women who do not do shringaar..

i maybe wrong ..but in my personal opinion if there was amrit sanskaar for women ..i do not think the maryada was the same ..Punjabi women were known for their beauty since ancient times ..i belong to a community which had the custom of bride price in the olden days ..i come across mention of high bride prices being paid for women of our clan from Punjab and Himachal because they were known to be extremely beautiful. Rehat maryada prevents making any changes to kes which involves cutting them by any method.

Is there any account by any historian who would remark at the unusual practice of turbaned women...we need to find this ..if anyone has any source then please share.

So I guess Sikhi was only meant for men then? All the seva, the leadership roles, and even baptism were meant for only men? So what does that say about the position of women? Not even good enough to receive amrit... yet they also say that those who don't receive amrit are lower than low. So read between the lines, its apparent what was being said about women.

I find it very very difficult to believe that Guru Ji would put women so far beneath men, when Gurbani says that everyone are spiritually FEMALE and the only male is Waheguru Ji. And all the Gurus worked so hard to elevate ALL humans to being equal. And that these bodies are illusion and temporary. When Amrit is taken for SPIRITUAL reasons, then according to that rehit above, nobody should receive khandi de pahul then, since we are all female spiritually. Sri Hazoor Sahib has also other practices which go against gurmat...

Check this video..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnG4wmEH93Q

Another flaw is with his claim as the last master of shastarvidiya..unnecessarily inviting trouble

If you listen to Puratan Nihangs ..its not much different from what he says ..specially if you listen to Baba Ballisingh 's videos on youtube ..in my opinion Nidar exaggerates which maybe part of his business gimmicks..in his initial version of shastarvidiya he gave too much weight to sukkha and jhatka maryada ...as if without them one is not a Sikh..he is got a dumb webmaster there ...says things the wrong way.

In fact there wont be place for gay marriages in any religion, if you go against the society and establish your setup then it is absolutely different like there are gay churches which might be just a meeting point for gays rather than anything religious.

I feel it is better to keep both the concepts in different corners..

Ask yourself ...is homosexual activity as normal as heterosexual ? tomorrow pedophiles would ask for their 'rights' then Zoonoses would follow.. ...the list is never ending. .

Sikhi is about connecting to the Supreme Power directly...when you follow Sikhi...without the dogmas which people create on their own..you will feel the longing for being One with Him the Akaal Purakh..The Timeless Lord...The Bani suggests you get connected and a flow inside you will always want to keep connecting.

Try this ...reciting EK Oanhnnkaaar...and just breathe in and out ...relax your nerves ...ask your self who are you ...are you this body ? are you this soul? when you close your eyes ..visualize a vast light coming from the clouds....try to meditate...you will get all the answers from Inside ...HE resides in you ..He is Right Inside You ..He is Akaaal...The All Pervading ..

There is no place for gay marriages in Sikhism. One of the most important functions of marriage is to procreate. You tell me brother, how will two males procreate naturally?

Having said the above, there is no discrimination against gay people in Sikhism. The doors of the king (LORD GURU NANAK DEV) are open to all.

Take care.

Bro what is your country of origin ?

You lay too much stress on same sex marriage .Can this be the only yardstick for liberalism ?

Love marriage is accepted largely...there are few of them who are strongly clinging to the clan identities ...things are changing .

The western society is an amalgamated society and therefore is not based on principles that rigidly ..and there is a constant adding of more diverse cultures..even from the remotest corners of the world. Therefore it wont be the same as a society which is already established and has had a foundation centuries old .

Hello everyone,

As the title of the thread suggests, I am currently exploring Sikhi as well as other religious beliefs (including Buddhism and Radha Soami, though I have issues with following a human master). I come from a Christian background, but I would not describe my beliefs as being particularly Christian, as I believe in an all-pervading God who is impersonal, and I believe in systems such as reincarnation and karma. So, I have many questions about Sikhi as I am on my search, and I was hoping that you all might be able to answer some questions for me. None of these questions are meant to challenge your beliefs at all, but merely to express my own doubts and challenges that I face in my search.

1. Buddhism and Sikhism I think are largely similar, but they have a major difference that I find hard to reconcile. Buddhism (at least Theravadan and Zen) teaches that the existence of God can't be answered for sure, and the same can be said for the soul. Instead the Buddha says that we should forget such questions, and instead focus on achieving Nirvana, as these questions impede our spiritual growth. Sikhi (as far as I am aware) states that our ultimate purpose is to merge with God, and reach Sach Khand. The problem is, I can see and understand the reasoning behind both of these positions, and I have a really hard time figuring out what to believe on this issue. How can I resolve this conflict?

2. Scriptures are obviously very important to Sikhs, as the SGGSJ forms the foundation for Sikhi. My question regarding this is, why is reading the Bani repeatedly so important? Is kirtan more beneficial than to practice simran and meditation on the atman inside? I can understand reading it for understanding, and of course reading scriptures at different times in our lives, we will receive different lessons. But is inward meditation not more valuable, provided it is done with a proper spiritual understanding?

3. As I am young and come from the West (I am only 18), I have certain Western values which I find hard to reconcile with both Sikhism and Buddhism, even though I may find the religion very appealing. Specifically, I feel very strongly about gender equality, and that differences between men and women are almost entirely (if not entirely) cultural rather than biological or spiritual in nature. This means that I am a strong advocate of homosexual rights, gay marriage, and transgender rights. I realize that Sikhi has done a lot to stand up for many of these things, but at the same time, I see that homosexuals are not allowed to be married with the Anand Karaj. As a Westerner, this seems to be the same religious dogmatism that I tried to escape when I left Christianity, but maybe I am misunderstanding it.

4. Marriages. As far as I understand, Sikhs do not condone love marriages, and instead practice arranged marriages. What is the harm in a love marriage, or in dating? Again I realize I come from a Western perspective, but I fail to see how these things are harmful to your spirituality. If all of your energy is focused on finding a partner, or on sexual promiscuity, or the like, I can definitely understand it. Also, why can an inter-faith marriage not be done with the Anand Karaj? If a Sikh wants to marry a non-Sikh, isn't that their choice? And if they want to do the marriage the Sikh way, is that not displaying the proper respect to Sikhi? For a long time, I dated a Muslim girl and we planned to be married. Sadly that didn't happen, but I can't imagine missing out on someone who may be the love of my life, because I am limited to only marrying someone of my religion.

5. Again as far as I understand, Guru Nanak Ji shunned religious labels. He stated "There is no Hindu, there is no Muslim." So therefore, why have his teachings started a religion? This is something I haven't been able to find much discussion about, and I am quite curious about it. Has Sikhism fallen prey to the same dogmatism that he taught against?

6. The SGGSJ was named as the last Guru for the Sikhs. Does this mean there will never be another Guru? What about when we move out of Kal Yug and into the next age, will there be another succession of Gurus?

I'm sorry for the long list of questions. I look forward to hearing your responses. Thank you.

The animal earned the respect of 'mother' due to its utility and psychologically we treat it n the same way..might not hesitate to eat beef of buffalo jhatkaed but cow is one of the animals i wouldn't want to consume.

1lb beef takes 8-10000l water

Even chankya said the melch who eat beef are dirtier than 1000 chandals (sons of prostitues)

Krishn said the nation which harms its cows will never grow. Think he said same about daughters


Cow is mother bro, that is why we protect it.

Start having cod liver oil capsules it will work well also do light massage of mustard oil without applying strong pressure..after massage tie turkish towel to your feet and pour hot water...should be really hot...the turkish towel will protect your skin from burning ..

what i feel is it is beginning of stiffening which may lead to arthritis.

I think my joint bones are getting lose. I feel so when I take a walk, or do rigorous exercises. My son asked me to wear one of those sock kind of wraps but it made no difference.

Is there a way to oversome this situation?

Maharaj mentions of cow protection...

lol has any one read ughardhanti ????? dasam granth ???? it says people who eat cows are malesh !!!

With great regret i would like to inform all of you that our esteemed forum member BhagatSingh veer ji 's father sahib passed away a few days back . Parmatma unhadi aatma nu Charhdikala bakshish kare.

jo mere Dasve Paatsaah ji di baani da mazaak kare...oh laandi buchi...this is the bad luck of Khalsa that a malechh has come in the bhes of a gursikh...i challenge all the so called kharkoos ehdi seva kar deyo fer assi manneye ke tusi kharkoo ho...the whole separatist lobby is with him and he roaming freely. Darsan professor te dhunda ...Sikhi da mazaak banna ke rakkheya hai..

Yaad rakkheyo Khalsa aauga charhh ke ..ehde varge da khaatma hona aa...

He's great parchark

He is intending to increase his database ...this pakhandi has no place here..jisne baani da mazaak kita..chhitar parade honi hai ehdi..

First of all, sorry for late replying.

Sarabjit Singh Dhunda prachaars only in the light of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

The only people oppose him are the ones who have never read Gurbani(with proper santhiya & understanding) or the ones who are trapped in some kind of derawad.

Stand up & put your research & views ahead instead of banning someone who is showing you mirror.

15,000 DERAS ARE THERE IN PUNJAB, STILL PUNJAB IS THE ALCOHOL CAPITAL OF INDIA.

WHEREIN 68% OF YOUTHS BETWEEN THE AGE OF 25-35 CONSUME SOME OR OTHER KIND OF DRUGS.

What these Deras have done good to Punjab?

EVE TEASING & FEMALE FOETICIDE IS ALTOGETHER A DIFFERENT BIG CHAPTER IN PUNJAB

Dhunda the joker ...now what more can you expect from him ..he might even want to suggest prostitution for keeping yourself fit

I too am from a hindu family and the thing i understand is ..there is no such thing as Hinduism...because there is no one standard way of worship or belief ..Vedas are the most authentic source ..i follow Sikhism though..am not a keshdhari

Many hundus believe in 33 caore gods but what hinduism really says is there are 33 koti gods which means 33 types of gods.

Yes true ..even the Vedas ask you to follow the One Power Supreme..Akaal Parmatma.

So please do not think we disrespect Ganesh ji ..He is a Sevadar of Akaal and much superior to us Humans ..so with due Respect to Him ..we request you to consider our boundaries and post relevant accordingly.

great but bro but in geeta ch 7 verse 20 says
"those who are materialistic worship these dummy gods."
i am not hurting you but i don't belive in these ganesha mantras becouse i believe in one god who is superior to all 33 koti god.

There is a dire need to create awareness about halal certification and the effect on society . There is lack of awareness in India itself, most Hindus and Sikhs do not understand the difference since they cannot watch their meat from being slaughtered .

Who gives you the authority to decide?

If you would quote " Guru Maaneyo Granth " does it mean just Siri Aad Granth Sahib ji ?

Just as the 9 Gurus did not stress on just reading their writings what makes you think the Tenth Guru would stress on reading what Himself has composed ?

If you want to follow only Siri Guru Aad Granth Sahib ji then there is no question of calling yourself Khalsa ..being Kesdhaari and tyaar bar tyaar with 5 kakkars ..in case if you are Amritdhaari..


I know this is off topic but please ..no Anti Dasam stand here...

why you had written sri guru sarbloh granth sahib ji it is not sikh guru our guru is shri guru granth sahib ji you can't called sarbloh granth sahib as guru

The possibility here is the cow might have got killed by the person accidentally ..the mentality of the so called priestly class then was to extract money in the name of conducting rituals to 'free' the person of the 'sin' and Guru Sahib knew the futility of such rituals which would follow.

Uggardanti Bani by Guru Sahib says "gau ghat ka dukh jagat se mitau"

Just out of interest is hunting in accordance with Gurbani? This is only for my limited knowledge and regarding the beef thing I have read the following in Parchian Dasan Patshaia Ki:

'When the Guru adorned his high seat, a man suddenly appeared and cried, "Oh true emperor! I have become guilty of cow slaughter." The Guru instructed the attendant to conduct him nearer to him. On being asked the man repeated, "oh true emperor, I have become guilty of cow slaughter." "Don't be stupid, you appear to be under the influence of a Masand. That is why you are upset and lamenting thus. So what if a cow has died? Go home and relax. It is the Lord alone, and none else, who kills and revives," said the Guru.'

- 'Episodes from Lives of the Gurus.' Parchian Sewadas, trans. with commentary by Kharak Singh and Gurtej Singh (Chandigarh Institute of Sikh Studies, 1995), pg. 50-53.

These are obvious reactions ...and this is bound to happen ..agree with you bro..N30 bhaa ji ..we have no hatred for anyone however these brothers are targeting people who are into grooming ..so somewhere they are fighting for justice

Mate. I don't think you've got a clue about what is going on in England.

The people who are supposed to be upholding the law - the politicians and police - seem pretty lax about it when it comes to things outside their own interests.

Have you not noticed the illegal wars and covering up of pedophilia and grooming? Some of which emanates from the very top echelons of the power/government here!

N30, some of us here love you to bits for your unparalleled, brave, open minded/hearted hosting of a forum. But brother seriously - can't you see how deep the corruption runs in some of our very own governments?

Get a bit more streetwise brother.