jaikaara

On what basis can you claim this ? Have you ever published a book ..It is because the history they publish is not correct according to you ? Why dont you then open a voluntary organization and republish what you feel is correct to counter their claims .

They have say that they are a voluntary organisation who is doing the works out of devotion but it's a lies.

They are not proper historian and their work is taken from other peoples work and put in one book.

They are thief people

Veera my closest friends are Jatts ..i dont hate them as individuals or blame them as such however when in a community the behaviour becomes caste conscious .

Master Tara singh Malhotra is blamed time and again for turning away Dr. BabaSaheb Ambedkar however that was just one of the reasons the other is stated here :

http://seekingbegumpura.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/ambedkar-and-sikhism/

Later some conflicts came up between Ambedkar and the Sikh leader Master Tara Singh, who undoubtedly feared Ambedkar’s political influence. The massive numbers of untouchables would overwhelm the existing Sikhs, if conversion took place; and Tara Singh feared that Ambedkar himself would become the leader of the Panth. In one incident, money (twenty five thousand rupees) apparently promised to Ambedkar was given instead to a follower of Tara Singh, Master Sujan Singh Sarhali; it never reached Ambedkar.

Thus, during the middle period of his life, Ambedkar interacted with the Sikhs and their leaders, and showed some attraction to Sikhism. It is worth asking why in the end he turned away from it.

One reason was undoubtedly his awareness of the existence of untouchability within Sikhism itself. Though in principle egalitarian, in fact Dalit Sikhs retained a separate identity – as Mazbhi Sikhs, or in some cases as “Ravidasis’ – and were differently treated. There was thus a kind of segregation within Sikhism. At the social level, Dalit Sikhs in the Punjab remained landless, subordinate as agricultural laborers to the landed Jat Sikhs, the dominant community.

Then, perhaps, the very factors which he early spoke of as reasons for going to Sikhism may have dissuaded him. If Sikhism was “part of Hindu culture,” then what in the end was the use? The “Hindu culture” which was so infected with casteism would continue to infect the entire Sikh community; Dalits would remain as untouchables within it, only untouchables who perhaps wore turbans. Buddhism more and more was appearing to Ambedkar as something different; like Sikhism it was Indian and not “alien”; it would not irrevocably divide the nation or give domination to Muslims or greater continuity of power to British colonialists. It also offered, perhaps, a kind of rationalism that Sikhism did not – Ambedkar was undoubtedly attracted by this theme that the Buddha had so consistently put forward, that one must decide for oneself, on the basis of experience and rationality: atta deepa bhav. Thus Buddhism proved to have a stronger and more enduring appeal than Sikhism. Buddhism could not even offer the limited resources of community support that Sikhism could, but it was also a religion that Ambedkar could shape on his own, could mould to suit what he felt to be the spiritual and moral needs of Dalits. Sikhism already had its set religious hierarchy, to which Ambedkar – however strong and determined a leader – would have been subordinate.

Thus, in the end, Sikhism lost out to Buddhism as the goal of conversion for Ambedkar and his lakhs of followers.

Why are you blaming the jatts ? Was tara singh malhotra who turned away ambedkar and 300 million dalits a jatt ? This finger pointing has never done us any good. It's not the time to find blame with others.

Sikhs do not believe in caste ???

This is what a Gora observed years back and has stated :

Despite the doctrinal standof the Sikh gurus against caste hierarchy, caste distinctions continued to exist in Punjab.

Your jatts? ???

I've said this before, and I will say it again, so listen up:

SIKHS DO NOT BELIEVE IN CASTE!!!! Get it? Good.

Now, you talk about "your mazhabi" brothers. The whole reason that they left Hinduism in the first place is because of this damn caste system labelling!!! And now you have this hypocritical holier than thou attitude? Have some bloody shame before pointing fingers! !

SGPC is happy when they win druggie Gores who will pay them in dollars and will convert ...but mazbhis coming back is a problem...jattistan banaa ke rakheya Panth nu...kaum de dushman ta eh haige...

My Mazbhi bretheren cannot enter Gurdwaras with jatt in majority ..they cannot take out prabhat pheris and nagar kirtan ...bahmnaa nu galla kadhde ho ..ohde pehle apne girewan'ch lukkya hoya manvaad kaddho..

Are you reading or just getting fits of your rss phobia ??? read it again ...where is the force ??? Your Jats force out our Mazbi brothers and you sleep over it !!!! these guys are bringing back my mazbi bretheren takleef ho rahi tenu ????

And that makes it okay, does it?
For doing forced/tricked conversions, the Muslims were wrong then, and the Hindus are damn wrong now!
What the hell is wrong with these people! !!?

http://www.firstpost.com/india/ghar-wapsi-punjab-rss-returns-christians-sikhism-raises-akali-ire-2001091.html

Even as 'Ghar Wapsi', the Hindu right's agenda to get back Christians and Muslims into the fold of their 'original religion, gains momentum, it seems the Hindu groups have not restricted this 'programme' to just Hinduism and have extended it to Sikhism too.

According to an Indian Express report, RSS and other affiliated groups in Punjab, claimed to have converted over 8,000 Christians back to 'Sikhism' in the "last three years, some 3,500 of them over the last one year."

"Hoshiarpur district has seen the most ‘ghar wapsis’, followed by Amritsar and Batala", adds the IE report.

The report points out that RSS has also found support from "gurdwaras and some members of the SAD-dominated Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC)." RSS leader Ram Gopa,l who heads the organisation’s Dharm Jagran unit, justified their programme and claimed that in some villages "the entire population had converted" to Christianity and that this was a threat to Sikhism.

One SGPC member Kiranjot Kaur, who has helped with these re-conversions agreed with Gopal's views and pointed out that Christianity was a serious threat to Sikhism.

It seems RSS has also made sure that lower castes,who re-convert to Hinduism, are not discriminated against and thus lured by Christianity all over again. Leaders of the outfit in the state claimed that they are training some lower castes to become priests, a privilege reserved for Brahmins.

One widow, Kinder Kaur, who reconverted told the paper, “We converted (to Christianity) because we were told that my husband would be cured of his illness. He died in 2011. Three months ago, the RSS motivated us to become Sikhs again. I have also changed the names of my children from Thomas and Rebecca to Sumeet and Kuljit.”

Representational image. AFP.

But this re-conversion tactic has not gone down well with Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD), which is an ally of the BJP, points out the report, as the party "sees Dalit Christians as a vote bank." The report points out that even Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal assured Christians that they would not allow “forcible conversions” in the city.

It should be noted that where RSS is concerned, its tendency to put Sikhism within the fold of Hinduism has meant that it is not viewed with great liking by 'orthodox Sikhs.' Of course where conversion is concerned, Punjab is not the only state where RSS and it's fringe-groups have claimed success.

Most recently reports showed that VHP had converted over 200 Christians in Gujarat in a mass ceremony. A PTI report showed that the rituals were held at Aranai village in Valsad district of BJP-ruled Gujarat and that a 'Maha Yagnya' (ritual of the sacred fire) was organised for "purification" of the tribals before taking them back in Hindu-fold. Each of them was also given a copy of Bhagwad Gita.

VHP insisted that the re-conversion was "voluntary" and not by force. "As part of the ongoing 'Ghar Vapsi' programme, VHP today re-converted 225 people from Christian community and took them back into Hindu religion," said Valsad district VHP chief Natu Patel.

In Kerala it was reported that 35 people had converted to Hinduism, forcing the state to call a probe into the incident.

The conversion reportedly took place pn Sunday morning in Alappuzha and Kollam districts. In Alappuzha, members of eight Christian families - a total of 30 people - reportedly embraced Hinduism at a temple function organised by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP). In Kollam, there were five people who reportedly became Hindus.

The VHP, meanwhile, said all those who became Hindus on Sunday decided to convert on their own, and all the organisation did was to prepare the stage for it. Reports said another 300 people in Alappuzha have expressed their desire to embrace Hinduism, and the conversion ceremony was likely to take place on Christmas day.

While the BJP has said that it does not support "forced religious conversion", the recent spate of reports on these so-called 'ghar wapsi' ceremonies are a worrying sign where religious freedom is concerned in the country.

Hindustan'ch inne saal rehe ke Hindu Dharam naal vair rakhna hor othe Christianity sohni lagdi ..Dhan hai ohdi Sardari nu

Haan ...rishtedari nibhouni aa..Sikha nu jad vadhda ta tere varge ya nu dikhayi vi nai denda ..saara randi rona ta aithe hi karna.. othe bund kholke beh jaanda ..

Compared to the Pakistani Hindus, the Sikhs of Pakistan have protested on many occasions. The latest was the incident at the Pakistan parliament.

Maybe you and Sherni can do to pakiland and lead the Sikhs as you appear to be so sneering on them not protesting enough in your opinion.

Hafiz Saeed tan HInduan noon vadhda Sikhan nun ohton ki darna

gidhh..How many times ?

girgit, the Sikhs rushed parliament, how much bigger a protest can you register?

half baked lies

This is just one of the tantrum kinda questions ..how many lady saints have been seen in Islam and Christianity ? why is the Pope always a man ? Why is the Imam always a man ?

If that is not enough , they will jump to gays and transsexuals.

So Pakistani Sikhs seem to be more 'mature' than Indian Sikhs

No morcha bandi ..no police station gherao ..no naare baazi ..Miyaan ji naraaj honge ta ....hahahahahaha

” community leader Sardar Bishon Singh told The Express Tribune. “Meat, eggs and tobacco are prohibited in Sikhism like pork is in Islam,” he said.

This is old news.

The above quote does not seem to fit in with the Pakistani Sikhs viewpoint of meat either. They do not have the hang ups that Indian Sikhs have about meat.

If I remember correctly it was agreed that this incident would never be repeated.

You missed the point ..who was cooking the maas ? what maas was brought in ? think about that.

mass mass kar moorakh jhagde

I am wondering with all the bickering done in India , they act like lambs in Pakistan and upon that the Khalistanis hail Pakistan ..this is a small example of what can happen.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/162164/religious-insensitivity-sikhs-allege-meat-was-cooked-in-gurdwara/

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Community accuses Evacuee Trust Property Board of dumping the issue.

The community has accused the Evacuee Trust Property Board (ETPB), the custodian of their religious places, of trying to dump the issue rather than taking steps against those responsible.

“We demand that an FIR be lodged and the culprits who cooked meat in our Gurdwara be penalised,” community leader Sardar Bishon Singh told The Express Tribune. “Meat, eggs and tobacco are prohibited in Sikhism like pork is in Islam,” he said.

“The caretaker, along with local Muslim staff, cooked meat in Gurdwara Panja Sahib on Sunday,” said a member of Gurdwara Panja Sahib Sewadar Society Sardar Pretam Singh. “It is unfortunate for Sikhs that custodians of their religious places, who are almost all Muslims, have been involved in violation of their faith,” said Bishon Singh.

Pretam Singh added that he caught one staff member red-handed with meat in the Gurdwara’s kitchen. “When I complained to the caretaker of the Gurdwara, Memrooz Khan, he rebuffed my plea,” he said.

ETPB’s additional secretary and deputy administrator then conducted an inquiry and transferred all staff from the Gurdwara. “We demanded that all employees involved in the act should at least be suspended, but ETPB refused to do so,” Rajan Singh said.

Sardar Bishon Singh said that anyone who desecrates a religious place should be tried under section 295 of the Pakistan Penal Code, he added.

ETPB’s Deputy Administrator Faraz Abbas told The Express Tribune that he was not sure whether anyone cooked meat at the Gurdwara, but on complaints by the community, all staff has been transferred and new people have been appointed.

Published in The Express Tribune, May 5^th, 2011.

Yes there are high altitude crops who taste better if grown at that level .

That is interesting biologically: I wonder if the different plants have variant enzymes that work at different altitudes?

It would be an interesting experiment in speciation. Would these different crops at different altitudes develop into separate species over time?

I envied the guy in the mountains - it's like he got away from it all!! lol

(Yeah, I know, Sikhs aren't supposed to do that)

There are so many families who's forefathers with Sikhs and who are back in the hindu fold by default ..i know families here ..my close friend 's father was a granthi and passed away recently he happens to be Hindu and might raise his children as Sikhs,

Oh well our musla and Isai brothers do the same. For centuries. We need to convert Sikhs as well. So far you have gotten a pass because you are a fellow dharmic religion.

On too the big Ghar Vapasi on Christmas Day!

Go Yogi Aditynath. The fierce Brahmin from Uttar Pradesh promised mAss conversions! More More

I suggest you keep an eye on Gurdaspur where Christian missionaries are running rampant. If your not going to do anything we will.

A local group did that and just informed the organizations, the first day when the converts were interviewed they said they were doing it on their own its in the news channels with recordings so cant be denied ..it seems the musla organzations bought them over maybe promising something better. I saw the interview they are bangladeshi illegal immigrants and are into rag picking business.

Overwieght people with shorts ..what about the kachhere amritdharis wear ? and overwieght ? can anybody beat apne at being overweight ?

So one Hindu becomes a Sikh so the Hindu fascist here must now post about a dubious claim by the RSS.

One Muslim convert to another religion is one less potential terrorist but let's be honest here. The RSS offered financial incentives and lied to these people and they have now denied they ever converted.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/day-after-homecoming-muslim-families-deny-embracing-hinduism/article1-1294852.aspx

The RSS are a joke, What else can you expect from a bunch of overweight old men wearing school kid's shorts!

Now compare the conversion of Vikram Singh and the supposed conversion of those Bengal Muslims. Vikram Singh is a Sikh through choice, if anything his life will be more difficult after he become a Sikh as he is now a member of an oppressed minority in India.

There are many Israelis who have been living in Himachal , married to local women and spending their savings on cannabis .The higher you go the better the quality..high altitude cannabis is supposed to be high quality.

Bhaa ji very rightly pointed out..and there is no end to this competition to show equality ..i would say balls to it ...its all in the mind ..i am still wondering why it should be given so much weightage ..ais tarah de loka nu hor koi kam hai nai..there will be times when they will file a case on Parmatma asking for the same organs as a man.

i was thinking this as well.

i wonder if it was the father who gave the palla, and if it was, why not the girl mother. then again why not give the boys palla to the girl from the mother. or give one each.

the parbandhaks who oversaw this are responsible.

A Niara Panth makes the Khalsa bereft of caste hatred and develops a identity which is considered Chatur Varniya,..has all the qualities of all the 4 Varnas .and be clear that Varna is not caste .

Codified by Brahmans - They did not code , some corrupt among them adulterated it .The Vedas are not authored by the brahmans.Vedas talk of Varna which was not based on birth .

Kshatri Dharam does not go back to brahman vaad in any way ..the Kshatri Dharam follower is ready for war out side and within . When you will do Baani of Guru Gobindsingh ji you will be able to understand the bhaav in the Baani.

See, my problem is that some posters don't seem to have a sustainable position.

On one hand one poster says Sikhism is neo-Hinduism, another says Sikhism is kyestria dharm and then in the same sentence claims Niara pan.

I like kyestria dharm though it's model, rituals and way of life were created specifically for a certain caste( yes sir a certain caste) and codified by the Brahmans.

In effect, by following kyestria dharm you are going back into bahmanvaad not out of it. The first word "kyestria" already talks about a caste.

Amandeep you me tony sher...we are all part of One big tree...we would want to agree to disagree..but no hatred...

A tree cannot survive without branches and roots so at-least don't even think like that...what will happen to our brothers will also happen to us . Please come out of this negativity ..me and tony might have exchanged the worst words..but in the end he is my brother ..and tomorrow if we need each other in case if we are in the same place ..we should not hesitate to get in touch with each other..

Just watch your community quickly switch over in next couple of years.

I agree with you bro.

This is all part of a Islamist plot! The offspring of the union of Bollywood Hindus and Muslims always tend to inherit the worst traits of both religions. I mean look at Sanjay Dutt! Al Qaeda and IS are intent on making the IQ of Hindustanis lower than it is if that is indeed possible!

You are being bitter for a handful of khalistani dogs using language taught by their najaayaz parents against Sanatan Dharam and Bharat...bro i can understand your sentiments par dont get into this negativity ..there are Puratan Sampradaays within Sikhi who have always acknowledged the source ..dont go astray like those idiots ...stay in the company of the wise ..not those fuddus like the small bunch we have here ...Sikhi is not them. Study the Granths and you will realize what paap these people are accumulating .

Why would I take Amrit? And give up thousands of years of history? For what?

Nope, we don't need anything from you. Just STOP using our teachings, modifying them to suit your own agenda. As a Hindu, I don't need to learn anything from Sikhism. Its the other way around.

Always has been. From the time Sikhs went undercover to Haridwar to get a morsel of knowledge with new names and disguises.