Free Radical

the member free radical dunno the slightist thing about sikhism and what he has written is complete rubbish.

Great topic my views are thus:-

In recent times i doubt there was a greater scholar than Baba Santa Singh, particularly of Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji's sacred writings

and i would agree with him that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj did pargat of devi. The reason is thus; chandi is a sevadaar of the khalsa Panth - she used to sweep up in the house of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and recieve blessings which she would then pass on to her followers.(Gurpratap Suraj Prakash Granth)

Durga is the Godess of Dharam Yudh and only as per maryada did Guru Ji pargat Devi and tell her to shower her blessings over the khalsa Panth so that it may be victorious. The same event occured in mahabharat just before the final dharam yudh by the pandavas, Krishna instructed Arjuna to seek the blessing of chandi so that there dharam yudh may not fail. When chandi appeared she said that her blessing was not neccessary as krishna himself has all the blessings within him since he is righteous and the yug avtar. Krishna only told Arjuna to do this as per maryada of a warrior before war to acknowledge the godess of war(shatree maryada).

It is God who created Durga and gave her the duty of instigating righteous wars this is the ultimate reality, but Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj has only acknowledged her and has taken courtesy towards her. Its exactly the same as Raagmala Guru Maharaaj used Raags in the formation of Adi Guru Granth Sahib and at the end wrote raagmala so as to show courtesy towards them otherwise they would have been akirtghan. The Gurus used Raags and showed respect towards them this is not wrong in any way.

Upon Avtaar of Sri Gur

I humbly ask forgiveness from the members who are viewing this, as I wish to address a small matter.

just because my post doesn't reflect your views they are automatically classed as "rubbish" and how dare you insult me by saying I don't have the slightest clue what Sikhi is. Actually you are right, I don't have a clue what Sikhi is, hence why I signed up to this forum, as I found it to be probably the only one where members were concerned about Sikhi, where they talked with backed up scriptural proof and not "oh I heard this baba say this".

so is this how you help your fellow sikhs, insult them, shut them up, force your version of "Sikhism" on them? This is how you put people off Sikhism, not how you bring them in, educate them, help them.

instead of insulting newcomers, maybe you should provide an explaination/answer to my questions?

I don't believe that I disrespected anybody by asking the questions that I asked. I just don't believe that SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj would call upon a Devi to bless the Khalsa, why is that you may wonder, because SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj knew that all the Khalsa needed was the blessings of Vaheguru. Further to that would it not have been a blessing in itself to have SatGuru Ji fighting along side the Khalsa, do you believe that the Khalsa at that time (today is a different story) needed encouragement from a Devi, would they have not got it from Mahabali SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj? I can go on and on, but being the enlightened individual that you are, knowledgable in every aspect of Sikh theology, of Sikh history, etc, You know what I am saying, given that knowing you, its all rubbish.

and then you quote SatGuru Granth Sahib Ji in a later post, which was the most disturbing part.

I maybe wrong, I maybe right, only Sri Sri Sri Vaheguru Ji, Sri Akaal Ji knows the real truth. I believe this much that the system, yes the System of Sikhi which SatGuru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj revealed to the world is a logical system, a simple path of how the true self is realised and how the true self, Joot Saroop, the never dying, genderless, Light that which is our TRUE SELF, SatGuru Nanak Dev Ji revealed how we can obtain a permanent connection with the Lord of Supreme Light, Vaheguru, whilst being alive, not dead, but while we are alive, what we call Jeevan Mukht and how we then merge back into the Supreme Light and become whole again.

I believe that the secret which was held back from the masses, which kept them in the darkness of who they truely are and how they can "go back home", this was revealed by SatGuru Ji, this is why I believe the Khalsa Panth has been under attack since the times of SatGuru Nanak Dev Ji, right upto now.

I maybe wrong, this is what I have understood from SatGuru Granth Sahib Ji, after reading Gurbani over the past 7 years.

What you have explained doesn't fall in line with the great character of SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj and the Khalsa Panth which SatGuru Ji created to serve humanity.

I maybe wrong, only Vaheguru and a few learned brothers and sisters here know.

I humbly appologise again, please continue with the discussion.

I won't be taking part in this forum anymore, can the administrators please disable my account this is my last request.

Please forgive me if I have offended anybody, it was not my intention to do so. I am very very, deeply sorry.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I was invited to a Akhand Paath at a Gurdwara in Harrow sometime ago and there I met three elderly women, their name ended with Devi, when I asked is Devi your surname, thay said that they were Namdharis, thats where the conversation ended as they left.

Interesting thread.

I have a question, for a Sikh in the "Sikh" faith, how many types of "Amrit" are there?

ps. I have used quotes because from what I have read there seem to be alot of different groups who call themselves "Sikhs", but all differ in their practise of the faith.

Dear Everybody,

I would like to share my experiences with you, is that allowed?

Please let me know, then I shall continue with this thread.

Free

This is interesting, thank you.

Thank you for your replies.

The only thing we need to watch out for in the next five years is a Nuclear bomb going off somewhere in the world, maybe America, UK, Middle East (Israel likely target), Russia or India. The blame will be put on, the likely lad, Iran, or even the ghost of Bin Laden.

The way things are going on the middle east, things will come to a peak, explode and then calm down.

Some people I know (non sikhs), who practice the occult religions, say that before the new age is bought in, the old ways must be cleansed, there will be a period of "purification" and the the new age will start.

Kalyug, according to some Hindus has got around 400,000 years to go before Shiv Ji destorys the world and the it is restarted by Brahma again.

BUT why are we getting worried about future events we most likely will have no power over?

bring your attention to the NOW and continue with your Naam Simran.

Thats the only power that will save you.

Fateh!

I've been reading Baba Santa Singh's commentary on Sarbloh Granth in his steek and listening to his katha on the same granth recently, and he makes the claim that Guru Gobind Singh did pargat of Chandi prior to the formation of the Khalsa Panth in order to bring about the destruction of Mughal rule. Baba Santa Singh mentions that this episode is related in Panth Prakash and Suraj Pratap Granth and goes as far as saying that Devi is the mother of the Khalsa.

Is this a belief held by all puraatan samparday?

Do you believe that there is any truth in the matter?

Incidentally, I would highly recommend Santa Singh's katha on Sarbloh Granth and his commentary in his steek. The description of Chandi shakti and the origins of the jungee Khalsa from the time of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's incarnation as Dusht Damun is amazingly deep.

Regards,

K.

Santa Singh, is he the leader of the Nihungs in India? Is he the guy who re-built the Akaal Takht with Indira Ghandi?

Durga/Chandi is also the feminine energy of God. Ragmaala mentioned that Chandi is the sword, this is also true. Guru Ji also refered to the sword as a Pir or Guru, hence why Guru Gobind Singh Ji does namaskar to Chandi. Chandi is also refered to the panthra which is very feminine but is powerful in grace.

Vaheguru, Allah, whatever you want to call the almighty, does not have a gender, hence cannot have "Feminie" energy. I am confident you know the Mool Mantra.

Manifested roop is different, but even then, energy does not have a gender, like the soul doesn't have a gender, so how can energy have a gender?

Please explain this further.

Fateh!

Neo Singh:

Where can I find this online?

....

The story is that it was Dusht Daman who destroyed countless number of daint when Durga needed aid during the war between the asuras and the devas. In return, Dirga/Chandi offered her service when Dusht Damun was born in Kaljug in the form of Guru Gobind Singh, so in this respect Chandi was indeed Guru's sevak. The lion-like spirits who battled the asuras were born again as jungee Khalsa in Dasmesh Pita's armies.

I will take a closer look on the weekend and report back unless someone else does the seva of translation before then.

Regards,

K.

I have read somewhere that Dust Daman was created by a Brahmin.

That's the legend.

....

Fateh!

So I had a closer read of Dasam Granth, and singh2 is right - there is no mention of Guru Gobind Singh that I can find referring to himself as Dusht Damun. The panktis about Dasmeh Pita's previous incarnation, during which Guru ji meditated on Hemkunt, van be found here:

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=132

It seems like story of Guru Tegh Bahadur being the Rishi (Samaundh Rishi) who Devi came to for help and Guru Gobind Singh being the shakti, Dusht Daman, comes from a different source. There are various versions of the story related here:

http://sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Dusht_Daman...er_of_The_Evil)

So, does the sakhi which melds the story of Dusht Damun with Dasmesh Pita's previous form as related in Bachittar Natak only occur in Suraj Prakash as singh2 says? Is there another source for this story? Is the story accepted by any other puraatan samaparday apart from the Nihangs?

Regards,

K.

Maybe there is no "source" and it is a story created to project SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji as a creation of a brahmin, i.e. product of Hinduism.

But could be wrong, there are more learned people here who know the truth better than me

No the Sharda Pooran Granth is written by Bhai Mani Singh while this one is uttered by Guru Gobind Singh Ji at Heera Ghat. This is more deeper and has alot more shadads in it

wow, by SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji himself. Is it signed by him? Is this in Dasam Granth?

My main question would be, how do you know it is written, uttered by SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj?

When was it written?, Why did he write it, while having possession of Adi Granth?

So many Granths appearing, amazing.

I believe everyone had belief prior to converting/adopting Sikh Dharma. It is the belief of Artisans community to worship Shri Vishakarma. I have seen in Gurdwaras with labels "Ramgariah Gurdwara" Shri Vishakarma idol. Punjabis including Artisans & farmers take day off on Vishakarma day in Punjab.

Thats right. I know so many jatt families who have pictures of Shiv Ji along side pictures of Sikh Gurus.

What a wonderful world.

I think there is a strong possibility this is correct myself. Thing with sabhians is that they codified and attempted to 'centralise' Sikh belief which had become quite varied by the end of the 1800s. That impulse to standardise forms the bulk of their western influence. Some protestant puritanism may have also crept in through playing down the more savoury aspects of the Khalsa i.e bhang and booze and an understandably aggressive stance towards enemies.

What we have to do is try and fathom if dasmesh pita really imagined Sikhi to be the plural form espoused by the sanatanists? Would he have considered sacrifices, god and goddess worship and Vedantic leanings as being acceptable for the Khalsa? If sanatanist are saying yes, then are they not essentially saying dasmesh pita altered the nature of Sikhi revealed by the previous jots? Our Gurus in the SGGS ji clearly and without ambiguity say that all worship apart from that of Akal Purakh is worthless.

Anyway I digress, my point is that the solidifying of the use of Kaur as a norm may be the result of the firm conviction the sabhians had in standardising Sikh practice. It was a central concern of theirs. No one is saying that some Sikh women weren't named Kaur and indeed Devi prior to Singh Sabhas, just that they made using the name Kaur a normative practice.

You have nailed it. All worship apart from that of the Ek-Oankar is indeed worthless.

Rajput women use the surname Kanwar which also means Prince and seems to an older or more formal version of the name Kaur. Shaheediyan makes a big admission here that the Sampardha traditions cannot be relied on fully on all things! But the whole idea of sanatan Sikhi is that they have kept Sikhism pristine whilst the Singh Sabha is supposed to have added and deleted many elements which wasn't in Sikhi originally! Could it be that just as the sanatans believe the Singh Sabha were influenced by the British then the sanatans were also heavily influenced by the Hindu culture around them?

Excellent, a very valid point.

Hi,

Now, please don't get my question wrong.

But how does this fall in line with Gurmat?

Thanks

Through the grace of the late Sant Baba Joga Singh Ji,

I have come across the Shardaa Pooran Granth which was attributed to Bhai Mani Singh Shahid. I know many members wanted information on this particular granth, its quite interesting from my viewing so far.

The granth contains various lines from gurbani and it gives a method of how many times to say it in how many days to reap certain fruits. From what I've read these include, aatamik gyaan, making ones (mind) shaant (peaceful), to get darshan (view) of Guru Ji, to get rid of dukh (pain) and illness, and even stuff like making it rain so crops grow, to yield a good produce in your fields, to get a wife quickly.

The methodology of how to do these are interesting and it is explained at the start. The mangalacharans are also interesting and I will post them.

The most interesting one, in my opinion, was one where it said if you do 7,000 recitations of the shabad below, from Tuesday till the next Tuesday. So that would be 1000 recitations per day.

Sunai Saraa Gunaa Ke Gaaha

Sunai Sek Peer Patishaah

Sunai Ande Paavah Raahu

Sunai Haath Hovai Asgaahu

Nanak Bhagata Sadaa Vigaas

Sunai Dookh Paap Ka Naas

The phal (reward) of this would be to get darshan (view) in your sleep of your Isht Dev.

I will post more, if anyone has any information about this granth, or questions let me know. One member of the board asked me if I could photograph the whole granth. I will digitize the granth, but as exams are coming up in december, it might not till happen till mid to late dec.

Hi,

I wanted to find out, if you can meditate without chanting a mantra and what would the results be?

What are the benefits of meditating while chanting a mantra?

This is a serious question.

Thanks