Hari

(Took Firefox ages to access this BTW)

The Akath Katha part I'm not touching, no way.I can't possibly say anything about the original "state" of Vahiguru.But I will comment on the follwoing points you made tSingh Ji:

However, the issue I'm not clear on is, are both time and space the product of 'activity'/'energy'?

Yes, movement is the nature of Time.That is what I define Time as.Constant moving flux.The visible and invisible movement of matter/energy.I personally have come to the conclusion that this world we live and our lives are much like a movie reel.Because this world is made from little "bits" (atoms etc.), the movement of these bits from one point to the next is the cause of Time and space.They must be moving in infinitesimally small steps, like a movie reel.Watching a movie the film appears to be alive.The same I believe with this Sansar.

I believe Time and space exist due to this constant movement.Small steps, like beads on a very very long string, is what makes this world appear to be, to move.There must be a gap in between these steps, these beads, no?

The reason It self-manifested?

Tantr - shakti breaking the yantr of unmanifested shiv, self expression

Kashmiri Shaivam - the joy/leela of realising Itself again and again

Both these reasons are interesting.But maybe there is no reason?

Still slow in some areas....

Having no desire can only come about naturally.You cannot and must not force it.If your life has had many disappointments (and pain), then naturally your being has little desire for this worlds pleasures and happiness.I personally cannot see true happiness in this world, a happiness which never goes away.But that's just me and what I have experienced in life.I wouldn't want anybody to go through what I've been through.

Buddhists are funny.They say they don't believe in God, yet have so many gods and goddesses in their pantheon.Not to mention Svayambu (Saibham).

I believe all talk about wether God exists or does not exist is futile and silly.How can you discuss something which has been described by mystics as "Being and Nothingness"?Oh well, IT is Akath Katha.

Allah Hu Akbar....

Jai Natraj!!The King of Dance.The Dance of Death....

I don't usually do this, but I'll be silly for you.

1. There isn't really supposed to be a point from which It manifests.Where is the point where you are when you are in deep sleep?There is no point.When you are in deep sleep, there is no point.I remember reading something on Qabbalah, that God has no centre, no point, but due to It's "Negative Light" reflecting back on to It's Self, a point is created.Something like that.Sorry I can't remember the rest.

I believe there is no point from where It manifests.So no finite point either.

2. I manifest from myself when I arise from deep sleep to dream sleep/pre-waking consciousness.Maybe that's what It did, in a sort of similar way.Why did It manifest?Desire?Boredom (like Pheena said above)?Loneliness?

3. Is this question in relation to question 1?Well, God's not finite, because of what I said in answer 1. above.No point, no finite point, no finite God.

I will elaborate if you prod me a bit more.But I find it very hard to type what I feel, know and intuit.Sorry if my answers weren't satisfactory.

Not lost my friend, it's making a come back.But it (mysticism) may be being lost within Sikhi.Time will tell.

I'm not qualified to answer your query Pheena Ji.But what comes to my mind is that Brahmjyot (the Light) is not in equal power (potency) to Parbrahm (the Forefather?).Since Brahmjyot is I think the first manifestation of That Parbrahm, it is of equal "age", but not equal in potency, strength, power.

What I have found in my silly pursuit of the Mystic path, is that not all is what it seems.That there is a "God" above God.That the "Supreme Being" is both Being and Not-Being, and then again neither.It is something strange.

And It definately is not what followers of organised religion tell you It is.But then again It is....

I suggest reading and digesting these Shabad, as a complimenting sweet to go with the above The Sophia of Jesus:

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3750

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1688

Vahiguru Vahiguru Vahiguru....Akaal Murati...

Translated by Douglas M. Parrott

The Sophia (Wisdom) of Jesus Christ.

After he rose from the dead, his twelve disciples and seven women continued to be his followers, and went to Galilee onto the mountain called "Divination and Joy". When they gathered together and were perplexed about the underlying reality of the universe and the plan, and the holy providence, and the power of the authorities, and about everything the Savior is doing with them in the secret of the holy plan, the Savior appeared - not in his previous form, but in the invisible spirit. And his likeness resembles a great angel of light. But his resemblance I must not describe. No mortal flesh could endure it, but only pure, perfect flesh, like that which he taught us about on the mountain called "Of the Olives" in Galilee.

And he said: "Peace be to you, My peace I give you!" And they all marveled and were afraid. The Savior laughed and said to them: "What are you thinking about? Are you perplexed? What are you searching for?"

Philip said: "For the underlying reality of the universe and the plan."

The Savior said to them: "I want you to know that all men are born on earth from the foundation of the world until now, being dust, while they have inquired about God, who he is and what he is like, have not found him. Now the wisest among them have speculated from the ordering of the world and (its) movement. But their speculation has not reached the truth. For it is said that the ordering is directed in three ways, by all the philosophers, (and) hence they do not agree. For some of them say about the world that it is directed by itself. Others, that it is providence (that directs it). Others, that it is fate. But it is none of these. Again, of the three voices I have just mentioned, none is close to the truth, and (they are) from man. But I, who came from Infinite Light, I am here - for I know him (Light) - that I might speak to you about the precise nature of the truth. For whatever is from itself is a polluted life; it is self-made. Providence has no wisdom in it. And fate does not discern. But to you it is given to know; and whoever is worthy of knowledge will receive (it), whoever has not been begotten by the sowing of unclean rubbing but by First Who Was Sent, for he is an immortal in the midst of mortal men."

Matthew said to him: "Lord, no one can find the truth except through you. Therefore teach us the truth."

The Savior said: "He Who Is is ineffable. No principle knew him, no authority, no subjection, nor any creature from the foundation of the world until now, except he alone, and anyone to whom he wants to make revelation through him who is from First Light. From now on, I am the Great Savior. For he is immortal and eternal. Now he is eternal, having no birth; for everyone who has birth will perish. He is unbegotten, having no beginning; for everyone who has a beginning has an end. Since no one rules over him, he has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another."

(BG 84, 13-17 adds: He is unnameable. He has no human form; for whoever has human form is the creation of another).

"And he has a semblance of his own - not like what you have seen and received, but a strange semblance that surpasses all things and is better than the universe. It looks to every side and sees itself from itself. Since it is infinite, he is ever incomprehensible. He is imperishable and has no likeness (to anything). He is unchanging good. He is faultless. He is eternal. He is blessed. While he is not known, he ever knows himself. He is immeasurable. He is untraceable. He is perfect, having no defect. He is imperishability blessed. He is called 'Father of the Universe'".

Read the rest here:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html

This is beautiful. :cry:

Translated by William C. Robinson Jr.

Wise men of old gave the soul a feminine name. Indeed she is female in her nature as well. She even has her womb.

As long as she was alone with the father, she was virgin and in form androgynous. But when she fell down into a body and came to this life, then she fell into the hands of many robbers. And the wanton creatures passed her from one to another and [...] her. Some made use of her by force, while others did so by seducing her with a gift. In short, they defiled her, and she [...] her virginity.

And in her body she prostituted herself and gave herself to one and all, considering each one she was about to embrace to be her husband. When she had given herself to wanton, unfaithful adulterers, so that they might make use of her, then she sighed deeply and repented. But even when she turns her face from those adulterers, she runs to others and they compel her to live with them and render service to them upon their bed, as if they were her masters. Out of shame she no longer dares to leave them, whereas they deceive her for a long time, pretending to be faithful, true husbands, as if they greatly respected her. And after all this they abandon her and go.

She then becomes a poor desolate widow, without help; not even a measure of food was left her from the time of her affliction. For from them she gained nothing except the defilements they gave her while they had sexual intercourse with her. And her offspring by the adulterers are dumb, blind and sickly. They are feebleminded.

But when the father who is above visits her and looks down upon her and sees her sighing - with her sufferings and disgrace - and repenting of the prostitution in which she engaged, and when she begins to call upon his name so that he might help her, [...] all her heart, saying "Save me, my father, for behold I will render an account to thee, for I abandoned my house and fled from my maiden`s quarters. Restore me to thyself again." When he sees her in such a state, then he will count her worthy of his mercy upon her, for many are the afflictions that have come upon her because she abandoned her house.

You can read the rest here:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/exe.html

It be good to make allies of people like Timothy Freke.Shish of Satguru Nanak Shabad Brahman Svarup should make allies of people like him.

http://www.timfreke.demon.co.uk/

Thoughts for the New Year

2004 saw an increase in the divisive power of religious literalism, further insane wars, no let up in the AIDS epidemic, more environmental destruction, continuing poverty and starvation, and the recent devastating tsunami. To make matter worse, to the dismay of compassionate people throughout the world, the US elected a dangerous president, backed by fundamentalist Christians with a very backward looking agenda. I receive emails everyday from people wondering where to turn. Our problems are so huge it is easy to feel impotent.

Our modern crisis is a crisis of vision. We need a ‘big idea’ which can help us make the world a better place. But in the past we have tried so many ‘big ideas’ which have failed. And this has left us defeated and cynical. What is the solution? Do we need to overthrow the capitalist system and challenge the power of the multinational corporations that run the world? This truly is a daunting task! And what alternative social system can we offer? Do we need to gradually educate people so that we understand the harm we are causing our planet and each other? Certainly. But this is a Herculean undertaking.

There is so much that needs doing, it is easy to feel overwhelmed and pessimistic. But perhaps there is another solution to our present predicament, which is simple and radical. I want to suggest that all we need to do to make our world a better place is to work together to spread a single powerful idea. And that idea is the big idea that has been taught by Gnostics for centuries: WE ARE ALL ONE.

Although we appear to be separate individuals, in reality we are different expressions of one awareness. The recognition of this fact is an experience of all-embracing love. And it is only by living in love that we can heal the divisions between us. Nothing else is ever going to do it! The vast majority of people are already caring and compassionate, but usually to ‘us not them’. We simply need to help people realise that in reality there is only ‘us’.

Our problems – both personal and political – arise from a fundamental misunderstanding of the human predicament. We mistakenly believe we are separate from one another. To transform things we simply have to challenge this mistaken idea by propagating the idea of oneness. Of itself, of course, this will not solve our social, economic or environmental problems. But if we see through the illusion of separateness, we will naturally start using the limitless power of our imagination to find compassionate solutions to our collective suffering, rather than squandering our creativity on the relentless quest to satisfy our transitory individual desires.

In this new millennium we need a new focus that will unleash our creativity, so that we discover new ways to make our world more loving, just, and enjoyable for all. We need to dismiss ideas predicated on the illusion of separateness as out-dated 20th century thinking and declare the basis of 21st thinking to be the recognition of oneness.

Humanity generally still seems asleep in separateness, but a significant number of people are waking up. Like the fall of the Berlin Wall, perhaps the thin veil of separateness which divides us could be easily and unexpectedly pushed aside if enough people would take the bold step of deciding to become mouthpieces for our collective awakening. The role each one of us can play is unique, but by recognising a shared vision we can help empower each other. The most important thing any of us can do is to embody oneness and love in our everyday lives. But there are also things we can do to promote the realisation of oneness more generally.

I am sending out this New Year message because I want to encourage us all to dare to be ambassadors for a new understanding in 2005. Can you imagine a future in which it is generally recognised that we are one and we do all we can to collectively live from this understanding? Is this just a utopian dream? I don't know. But what else are we going to do with this amazing experience we call being alive if not play our part in this great adventure of awakening?

In love

Tim Freke

PS Please feel free to share this message with anyone you feel appropriate.

www.timfreke.demon.co.uk

I took a brief look at that website.That Baba's photo on the home page, he is obviously shastardhari.Do the Bektashi's practice their own form of shastar-vidiya?And are they shastar-dhari then also?

Gur Ishar Gur Gorakh Barma Gur Parbati Mai - Jap Ji Sahib

The "Khalsa" Fauj, ever thought that your thinking is going against the Great Divine Mother, who made you and gave birth to you.That you are fanatically macho in going against the Jagat Mata.You got a problem with Eka Mai?Then I feel very sorry for you.

Because when She slaps Her insolent children, boy does it hurt, in this life and lives to come.She can cause such suffering and pain to those who insult Her.

Do not insult Her.Acknowledge Her and praise Her as Satguru Nanak Nirankar did.I wonder if TKF will understand what I have said.

Jai Sarsvati!Jai Lakhsmi!Jai Parvati Mai!

Thanks a lot veera!!

I really want to download the Faridkoti Tika again, but the link isn't working.Can anyone help?The link isn't working on the Rara Sahib website aswell.

Anand hi Anand!Paramanand.Sada Sad-chid-anand!

This is for those who still don't get it.You touch the feet of your family elders right?Your grandparents etc.Now, would you place money infront of your respected elders and then touch their feet??Would you treat your respected elders as beggars?Ofcourse you wouldn't.Then why treat your Satguru, who is the King of kings as a beggar.A Satguru has no need for His shish's money.

When infront of Satguru Nanak, it is you who is the beggar, not the other way round.The Satguru gives and you receive, not the other way around.

I know that Gurdwara committee types will not listen this message, but I hope that future generations of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji's Shish will think about this.I strongly urge that if persons out there still put money infront of Maharaj, that they stop doing so.

I agree N30, the golak/toshi khana should be placed away from Maharaj.Langar hall is a good idea.

Jai Shri Krishan Maharaj!Jai Shyam Sundar!Jai Murari!Jai Madhusudan!Jai Gopal!Jai Govind!Jai Keshav!Jai Narayan!

Jai Jai Hari Narayan!

Those who are spiritually blind my dear, not those who's eyes don't work.

I've been meaning to bring this up for quite a while.

Placing money infront of your Satguru and bowing down to your Satguru is be-izzati of your Satguru.Do you see?Or not?This goes on everyday across the world by hundreds of "Sikh" of Satguru Nanak.So called shish of Satguru Nanak place money infront Satguru and bow down.Everything is done mechanically.Put money down or in the money collection box (golak) and bow down.Satguru Nanak will not ever place His hand on your head aslong as you keep on doing His be-izzati like this again and again.His servant Sarsvati Mata (higher intellect) will not visit your house (mind).

Satguru Nanak is not a beggar that you have to place your money infront of Him.This is not what it was like in the time that the Satguru were bodily on this Mother Earth.Money or food etc. were not placed infront of the Satguru.To the side of Satguru Maharaj you had the treasurer, you would've given your money to him.How would you feel if someone placed money infront you and bowed down?

The reason why I suspect that this derogatory system of placing golak infront of Satguru is so that Gurdwara committee's can have their coffers full.They play on the sangats ignorance.They know that the ignorant sangat will keep on placing money infront of Satguru because they think they will get bakshsish from Satguru.Nothing could be further from the truth.They will get no bakshish if they keep on treating Satguru as a beggar.Yes, the Gurdhaam needs money for upkeep etc. but that money should not be placed infront of Satguru Nanak.

Kabbadi Singh, lets not bring pseudo science into this debate please.Kirlian photography :roll: .

Your eyes are tired.That's why they twitch.Maybe you are on the computer too much?You maybe squinting at the screen without knowing it for hours.The muscles that make you squint get tired and can't hack it, so they twitch, I think it's a mini spasm in the eyelid muscles.

I like to use Mozilla Firefox.Download it here:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/central.html

It's a much better and safer browser than IE.Download and install it now.