Xylitol

that's beyond our knowledge. But I do believe what you're saying is correct to a great extent.

however, I also believe that the Guru is special, Guru Avtar, there is none other like Him.

It's been proven that a lot of the time when people get darshan it's God helping them in the saroop that they have faith in. For example, radhasoamie Faqir Chand - his followers had darshan of him saving their lives. But he told them ' i have no knowledge of doing that, it's just your sharda in me that makes you see me'. other radha babay take credit for saving their followers,

Faqir Chand ji, who had integrity, criticised them greatly for this and for other dishonesty on their part.

i've read a sakhi wherein the Guru teaches a sikh that reciting the kalma doesn't make one a muslim. so, how would reciting the adhan make one muslim?

by saying God's name is Allah, and his prophet is Muhummad (all true), how am I a muslim?? If it was an affirmation of exclusivity than you could make a decent case for it.

everything is in God's will. including those who are mislead away from dharm. Bani talks about this. don't ask me to reference this b/c i don't know where in Guru Granth Sahib ji this is written.

heard congress told him they'll make charges of sex molestation, murder go away, and they got his votes that way. one of the murder charges is for the killing of a journalist investigating him.

I also heard that this guy may be behind the burning of Guru Granth Sahib birs that's been occurring for a few years. heard he's paying 1000 / bir destroyed. for the years that its been happening nobody knew who it was. unconfirmed, could someone please confirm this if this is true.

sorry for posting so much, but here's a bit from ASB's link...

"yesterday afternoon -- zeenews said

due to heavy mob at xyz place, police placed curfew

they also shown videos, wth a live tag,

wth burnin tires & all

same time i taked to my cozen on phone

who said theres nothin wrong in th xyz place

as he was there himself, that mae me really tensed

so its very important to study the matter in detail

things r really goin wth some big controversy behind

what we r seeing on tv, we r believing

dont forget that media is also in hands of GOVT."

don't know if it's true. but chilling if it is.

he didn't actually claim he was the Guru, lol...

sounds like he experienced a major surge of bir rus and didn't/couldn't control it and just happened to describe it that way.

someone's personal experiences there http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry145669

news reports of baba http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry145679

interesting post...

http://sidhusaaheb.blogspot.com/2007/05/de...auda-and-i.html

I also believe different groups have a right to practice their beliefs, eg. radhasoami. Although sirsa dera, imo, is testing sikhi and may be working with gov.

http://www.sikhsiyasat.com/default.html

Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu held press conference on dera issue at Patiala.

Patiala (21 May, 2007) Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu addressed a press conference here at Patiala and announced that program given by Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib is a unanimous program of all Sikh Organizations and it shall be carried on in a peaceful manner. Punjab Bandh call given by all Sikh Bodies under the leadership of Singh Sahibs shall be observed by the Sikh Masses. He said we do not want to create tense situation and state along with it’s agencies should consider this matter seriously and should not try to make the situation tense. He said act of sauda dera chief is not just a matter of dress controversy or of an advertisement, it is an attack on Sikh Identity and Sikh Principles. He said innocent people misguided by dera chief need not to fear. It is not in Sikh Traditions to harm the innocent, But the guilty shall be punished.

the inner sanctum of the Gurdwara, where Maharaj's shastar are kept, is also called the Sach Khand.

Shaheedi is a great seva, and requires very good karma to attain. I remember hearing in katha that the Sikh dharm grows by sacrifice (including shaheedi). I don't know if it's true, but I've also heard that every few decades or so, the plant of Sikhi requires watering from the blood of shaheeds. Would be interested in some verification of this by those in the know.

Trust me, there will come a time when shaheedi will be happening on a regular basis. Baba Kulwant Singh ji, of Takht Sri Hazoor Sahib (the only one there who is allowed into the Sach Khand), has told a singh I know that there will come a time in the future so difficult that every Sikh will have a gutka sahib in one hand, and a kirpan in the other at all times.

i'm pretty sure he did intend to imitate. the ad seems clear enough. by waiting 5 days while his followers attacked and clashed with sikhs and police, i don't believe he showed himself to be the bigger person.

he should have just made a clear statement from the start. i believe he wanted to see how far he could go to test the sikh community, and now that he realised things would go badly for him if he continued down this path, he is trying to reverse course while saving face as much as possible.

there are different levels of darshan. Darshan of the Guru in dreams is a very good thing, the next level is partakh darshan (live, in person).

your dreams, i've heard, are a reflection of your avastha.

sorry N3O, read your post too late.

Meeting went fine. Decision by all that there was a need for thoughtful, nonviolent protest. Mainly via lobbying the government in large numbers (Canadian and Indian). a Sikh canadian MP, Sukh Dhaliwal, attended also saying the above.

Decision to avoid slogans etc. b/c that's the only thing the media will focus on to the detriment of all else. people were looking at the root causes of this. They said that if this fraud is dealt with, than there will be another one after him, and than another, until the root cause is dealt with.

blame on the sgpc for failing prachaar. Some people also said the major support for fraud dera's comes from overseas, many young sikhs who aren't receiving the gyan they need from Gurdwaras go to follow them. Some women spoke and said that women are the first to metha tekh to these frauds, and that prachaar of sikhi begins at home. There is, unfortunately, a radhasoami dera recently constructed on 100 acres of land somewhere in the lower mainland area - so the pakhaand is growing. everyone was clear on the need to reach out to youth. Some also said that if immigration to Canada stops, the Gurdwaras will shut down in 20 years b/c the youth are mostly going elsewhere. Some people also spoke about precision in language - eg., if you talk about shutting down all the deras and getting indian gov to ban the guy from punjab, than mention what deras you mean. Many deras are devoted to Guru ji and none ohter.

Anyway, that's just a very brief synopsis of what I remember.

FOR SANGAT FROM BC

In light of the recent events taking place in India and Punjab, and the serious threats of violence being made against the Sikh community from the leaders of the Dera Sacha (Read: Jhootthaa) Sauda cult, there have been many meetings in the Sikh community to bring forth a resolution to this problem.

The Cult leader has been ridiculing the Sikh community and imitating the Vaisakhi Khalsa initiation ceremony, modelling himself as a self-proclaimed Guru of the new age. He has been purposefully attempting to hurt the sentiments of the Sikhs by dressing like Guru Gobind Singh ji, creating "7 Stars" as a replica of the Punj Pyare, and trying to duplicate other Sikh practices in order to gain followers. His cult's followers have become increasingly confrontational, violently attacking and injuring innocent Sikh bystanders at public protests and rallies. In response to this, a gathering of all Sikh groups at Takhat Sri Damdama Sahib yesterday denounced the cult and demanded the Punjab & Haryana governments to shut down the cult and arrest their leader within 3 days.

Due to this environment, all BC community organizations and groups of all faiths have been invited to attend a community meeting tomorrow, *FRIDAY, MAY 17* at 7pm at Gurdwara Sahib Sukh Sagar on Wood Street in New Westminster, to discuss means of resolution to this conflict and attack against the Sikh community.

-BC sikh youth.

Giani Avtar Singh ji stated in his katha that Kalki/Nikhlank Avtaar is actually Vishnu ji, and not Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Giani Takhur Singh ji also confirmed that Kalki Avtaar refers to an individual.

Bhai Rama Singh ji, 2nd jathedar of AKJ actuallly wrote about a dream he had wherein a shaheed singh told him about how Khalsa Raj would be created. Said that world war would be so long and so intense that metals for bullets would become too scarce. Armies would have to resort to using swords. other stuff said as well, but i read his book a long time ago. Of course, it was a dream so we don't know.

Whats interesting is that during WW2 nations saw need so soldiers would pick up spent shells so that they could be recycled. And the coming conflict will dwarf WW2 in size, so it's plausible.

Who is Imam Madhi?

Fair enough, Niranjana. Your point is correct.

Where can I get more of Nihang Niddar Singh's discussions on Sikhi, shastar vidya etc. I love weapons and it's really intersting to hear a knowledgable person discuss them. I'm in Canada so I can't actually attend a talk.

Awesome post. One more (small) point. The Punjabi University, set up for preservation of the language, actually had its scholars taught the correct pronunciation of Punjabi by scholars from Damdami Taksaal. Another vote to Taksaal's lineage.

While I think #1 is mostly correct, I don't believe in self-annhilition. The being remains, but the ego, the sense of separateness from God, disappears. Also, I've heard in Baba Kartar Singh ji's katha that when a singh gets Shaheedi, the Singh is given the option of going to Sachkhand or of continuing to do seva in Maharaj's shaheed fauj. Baba ji met with some shaheeds in Karm khand who explained this to him.

Sorry, i forget which katha this is from.

As for other dharms, what i believe and have come to understand from reading bani is that, for the most part, they get what they aim for. Buddhists aim for mukti and nirvana, annhilation of the self, a state of no-being-ness, which is outside chaurassi lakh joon. There are also numerous buddhist and 'hindu' heavens. people live and die and get reincarnated from and into the heavens and hells, imu.

All of these stages are below Sach Khand, and when Waheguru wraps up the creation, all these things, including nirvana, will be destroyed, only sach khand will remain.

I asked Baba Takhur Singh ji Bhindren, when the journey of the soul ends, at what stage is the game finished? He replied that it never ends, which is why I believe that our being is not finished in Sach Khand and that our spiritual growth just keeps on going and going.

A senior police officer told a major newspaper, I think it was the Times of India, 'it's interesting that the government was making plans to attack the golden temple when the biggest complaint the government had against Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was that 'his speeches are objectionable' ' (paraphrased). 75 Sikh shrines in total were attacked by the indian government according to former Chief Minister of Punjab, AR Darshi, not just the Akal Takht.

Ranjit Singh's respect for religion is well known, but his lack of following of many important tenets of religion only seems to be known among those who educate themselves about it. Still, I've never heard of pedophelia, just drug use, the harem, the scattering of the Akalis who helped consolidate Sikh rule so they couldn't oppose him, & refusal to give power to Akal Takht. what you are saying is interesting...

actually, the more sangat you do jaap with, the more kamai you get. So the # involved matters b/c kamai is multiplied.

And as for the above banner, I don't think there's anything wrong with showing positive aspects of Sikh history in canada. I would only consider it slave mentality if Sikhs watered down the principles of our dharm to make it conform more.

"There is an extensive thread on Tapoban discussing the Babbars opening fire on Sant Jee, alternatively, older members of the Sangat who associate or link themselves with the Taksal will confirm this, unless of course they are trying to “keep panthic unity” as it was pointed out to me by one ardent UK Taksali. "

Could you please post a link to this thread, ji? I searched for it but couldn't find it.

Interesting book. some qoutes:

According to India Today206: 'Whereas Bhindranwale has publicly disowned each act of the extremists, the Babbar Khalsa openly claim credit for most of these, barring the killing of Hindu bus passengers and that of Atwal.'

"In one of his speeches, Sant Bhindranwale said209: 'Day before yesterday, a farce was enacted here at Akal Takhat. After getting some tape-recording done by someone, he was called to the Akali stage and made to say that Bhindranwala was conspiring to get him killed. His name is Sukhdev Singh; people often call him Sukha. They say that I have hatched a conspiracy to kill him.' "

When some Punjabi newspapers published information concerning death

of Sikh young men, most of whom died while in police custody or in ‘fake’ encounters, the

Punjab Government approached the Press Council of India to enlist its co-operation against its

own members, the Punjabi newspapers. The Council, assuming that the official view of the

situation in Punjab was the correct one, dutifully ignored the protestations of its members and

recommended that the Government set up proper arrangements to provide authentic information

to the press211. The Government not only continuously harassed newspapers like the daily Ajit,

the Akali Patrika, and Charhdi Kala but also regularly fed disinformation to the newsmedia. A

Times of India article212 revealed: ‘Often and unwittingly... journalists fall prey to the

government disinformation which suavely manages to plant stories... The confusion gets

compounded when government agencies also resort to feeding disinformation on letterheads of

miltant organizations since there is no way of confirming or seeking clarifications on press notes

supposedly issued by militants who are underground and remain inaccessible most of the time.’

The writer went on to report: ‘A group of journalists, including myself, had called on the former

governor to lodge a protest against the registration of a case against the Times of India and the

Punjabi daily Ajit, last January. After hastily apologising and promising to withdraw the case

“shortly” (that the case was ultimately never withdrawn is a different story), the governor had

sought the journalists’ co-operation in tackling the militants. “Don’t publish press notes that

preach violence against an individual, an organisation, etc. but you are free to publish their press

notes that encourage inter-gang rivalry, “ he said, adding “We have drawn up a plan for

disinformation to be issued on the militants’ letterheads. We hope that you will co-operate”.’

naw, still disagree. you can get way more people doing kamai at a PROPERLY HELD nagar kirtan than in a Gurdwara due to space limitations. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen often enough that it's proper throughout, usually just a few floats doing it right.

So long as you stick near the front, where people are doing seva of Maharaj or in any area where naam is being japped, the value of nager kirtans is immense.