SikhKhoj

Picture credit goes to Bhai Kamalroop Singh. I see, thats nice to know. So no Puratan Sikh literature mentions Kara? (like pre 1780s).

At Patna Sahib. Yes I read about the Kara in a 1785 book (I think) by a Gora too.

Amardeep, sciences (my thing). What about yourself? BTW, have you got the Gurbilas Pt 6? http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/406-bhai-mathara-bhat-ji-shaheed-battle-print.html The Gurbilas Patshahi 6 sure has tons of info on warriors of that era. Agreed. He has done some fine research though. We having some Shaheedi Degh while reading Puratan literature with pens in our hands. Yes. + People were healthy due to their lifestyles (e.g. Baba Deep Singh). For sure that Guru Gobind Singh heard of grandfathers battles.

I meant the relevant parts on Guru Hargobind Sahibs daily lifestyle (Nitnem, Bhagti and Shaster Vidya). I got a (very) basic understanding of Braj Bhasha. Did not learn it anywhere (as of yet).

Since which Gurus time did the Sikh start wearing Karas? Did Guru Nanak Sahib also wear one? What was the original purpose of wearing one? Was it only the spiritual significance of doing 'nirmal karam' (good deeds) or was it used as a 'weapon' during Battles. One thing is sure that the Kara in Sikhi predates Guru Gobind Singh. I have seen a picture of Guru Tegh Bahadur's Kara preserved in a Gurdwara.

Thanks. I heard this Brahm Kavach is also included in a Gurbilas. Anyways if you don't mind, can you tell me what Raas, Ain of Suraj Prakash your Punjabi translation is on, so I can look it up without you having to bother for scanning it.

My exams will be ending by the end of June. We are going to research several issues then.

He is a guy named Harpal Singh Kasoor and done a good job. He has found some nice evidence and even visited the places visited by Guru Nanak Sahib in Africa (Uganda). Thing is he does tend to exaggerate, but I think, seeing his seva since past 30 years I can overlook that. Kasoor clearly says: 'His grand father is Hira Nand and great grand father is Gangadhar( ref pp 79 of "Khalastut-- Twarikh", translated in Gurmukhi, by Punjabi University,Patiala).' So he is not making up any stories about Sujan Rai's father being a Sikh soldier during 6th Patshahs time. I don't think the army during 7th Gurus time shrunk alot, but stayed around 2200 mounted soldiers. There was even a skirmish of the Guru with the Mughals, and that wouldn't have happened without an army. It is possible that quite a few soldiers where there from 6th Gurus time. Sikhs used to go at war even when they were teenagars (Guru Tegh Bahadur at 14, Sahibzadas, ...), which implies that other Sikh teenagers must have fought too during the battles. IF some of them survived till the 10th Gurus time (lets take till the battle of Bhangani, meaning about 55 years after the Guru Hargobinds last battle), it is highly unlikely that they also participated in Guru Gobind Singhs battles. We will definately find clues in the old Granths. Gurbilas Patshahi 6 won't be a bad start or even the Gurbilas Patshahi 10 for that matter (there are two, but one of them contains quite some info on the battles of the Gurus and even has the Brahm Kavach supposedly uttered by Guru Hargobind Sahib in it). DalSingh, care to start some extensive research ? EDIT: Yes 10th Guru might have known them, but I don't think they were still working as a force during the tenth Gurus time (even the early years).

Or was it the Ram Kavach in Guru Granth Sahib? I see, is it the same Brahm Kavach that is included in some Nihang Gutkas?

Thats right. Same as Satrangi peeng - rainbow. Same as ਨਾਰ ਜਾਂ ਮੁਟਿਆਰ. That is right. My father always tells me that is specifically used for boys in puberty or just after. (13-20) ਹਾਂ ਬੀ ਮੁੰਡਿਆ, ਕਾਫੀ ਗਯਾਨ ਆ ਤੇਨੁ

No thanks, any help for brothers (or sisters, which is very rare, if not non-existant) deeply into the Khoj perspective of Sikhi.

The Brahm Kavach from SGGS... Thats much possible. Any historical sources though?

The books is written after 2 years of research and it is not on one subject only, it has information on the Gurus etc. If I had the book, I'd DalSingh: If you read the 11th vaar of Bhai Gurdas you will find the name of Sujan Rai Bhandari's father. I read an article by a scholar veer some time ago in which more details were given. EDIT: Heres the link. http://satguru.weebly.com/who-is-sujan-rai-bhandari.html DalSingh, if you don't know of the site, I say that there is a lot of information on it. Yes I know that the authors stretches the information too far, but still overall a good site.

He was the son of a devout Sikh of Guru Hargobind Sahib. His father was martyred in one of the battles.

A few more: * ਆਲਣਾ * ਮਾਈ ਬੁੱਢੀ ਦੀ ਪੀਣਗ * ਰੁਕਾਨ * ਮੁੰਡੀਰ

Yes, languages do go through such phases but isn't it strange that we people who studied in the 60s don't understand many words in todays textbooks? (1966: creation of Punjabi suba and educational programme changed). On the other side of the border, the same is happening. Too many Urdu and Persian words have crept into Pakistani Punjabi vocabulary. Yes it is true that many of our words come from other languages: kursi (Arabic), sabzi (Turkish), pehelvaan (Persian), etc BUT why replace words of our OWN language with that of others? Yes I had never heard that word used in this context before but if Dictionary Sahib says it, it must be right. Haha I was wondering the same about ਕੰਜ - ਕੰਜਰੀ relation when I discovered this word. Really no idea. Not really a synonym. Would you say that strange and unique are synonyms? Because as you put it, ਅਨੋਖਾ is positively unusual, while ਅਜੀਬ is kind off strange/weird.

Yes I agree with that point of view. But you posted the Vaars in retaliation to what Amardeep said from his memory of Suraj Prakash. Which said that the Guru did bhagti, Asa Di Vaar, and other nitnem (Rehraas and Sohila). And you said it kind off contradicted Bhai Gurdaas Vaaran, which is not really true. It is not like Asa Di Vaar, Nitnem and Bhagti took several hours, it was only a set period of time, as the Shaster Vidya began after the nitnem (still at Amritvela). Any ideas what Banis were recited during Yudh or before (during Guru Hargobind Sahibs time) ? I heard Sabad Hazare but got no proof for it.

There are many works such as the Khulastul Twareekh of Sujan Rai that aren't known, which is sad. There are many Granths out there that get overshadowed due to the immense popularity of Suraj Prakash, Panth Prakash and a few other Granths. Yes, Guru Tegh Bahadur might have got a few Sikhs as guards after attempts on the Guru (such as the shot fired on Guru Tegh Bahadur). Does anyone know when Guru Gobind Singh started collecting forces? (such as the one who fought in Battle of Bhangani - 1688). Was it near the time they started building forts and stayed in Poanta etc (1684 onwards)? Any historical accounts?

Ok, awaiting it.

Thanks Amardeep. Can you please look up which ain that was? It must be between Raas 4 and 8 as those deal with Guru Hargobind Sahibs Jeevan. http://www.ik13.com/online_library.html DalSingh, I feel that is a poetic way to show something. I feel that it is not possible that a Guru didn't meditate or do Bhagti. When you are waiting for a friend, and you call him, how often will you say 'o kithe aa yaar, ghainta ho gea udeekde nu'? We say that even though we just wait for them for 5-10 mins, but it is a human tendency to exaggerate things to get your points across. Yes Guru Hargobind Sahib was different to all previous Gurus but to take Bhai Gurdaas Vaars literally is a tad bit exaggerated. sarbatdapala, can we find these 'Ishnaan' sakhis in Pyara Singh Padams edited Sau Sakhis? Please do not turn this into another Sikhi-Islam thread, you got enough others. Guru Nanak Sahib took words right from God, not Muhammad or any other religion.

* ਕੰਜ / ਕੰਜਕ - 'innocent virgin girl' (whatever that is supposed to mean haha) * ਨਿਰਖ - price, rate Yours: ਅਨੋਖੀਆਂ - plural of anokha (= unique things) ਟੱਪਲਾ - tapla khana is same as phulekha lagna, means to get confused/mistaken

Okay thanks, awaiting your article with impatience. Besides, has anyone got any traditional accounts of Guru Sahibs bhagti life? Any JanamSakhi, Gurbilas, ...

Yes indeed, 'point of view' (drish = view, kon = angle) I don't think ਪੂਰਾ ਤੱਤ ਬੇਤਾ is that. I read it in some science book ages ago, it has something to do with archeology. Maybe it means archeological or something like that. However nowadays we don't know if some words are not Sanskrit and not really Punjabi, I have seen an increase of Sanskrit vocabulary to weaken the Punjabi language in textbooks of Punjab schools. What about the other two?

Hmm is it only about Jaap Sahib being introduced or also Bhagti of the Guru Sahibaans in general? May Satguru bless you with more bal and buddhi to do this Sevaa.

I was reading a post on a blog by a Muslim girl and it was about Prophet Muhammads daily life, e.g. when he woke up, what prayers he offered, etc. While reading I realised that I have never heard anything as of such within Sikhi. Yes we know upto Guru Gobind Singh Ji, we had Japuji / Anand in mornings, Sodar Rehraas in evenings and Sohila while sleeping, so the Gurus also did it. And lateron after Pahul, the Banis were finalised as they are today (5 Banian). But I'm sure the Gurus did other meditation / Banis aswel, so is there any account or any oral tradition. EDIT: I realised that the Gurus were absorbed in the Lord, Har Har, 8 Pehar (24 hours a day), but there must have been specific times where they sat down and meditate and / or recited Banis.