HSD1

Right so no one can come up with an explanation so it must be telekinesis then?

Ok bro you got me. I believe. I am locking up my KitKats in a strong box and burying it in a secret place. The X-Men arent getting my foil. You should hide your hat too.

In a major Eid bonanza to the Muslim brethren of the state, the Punjab Chief Minister Mr. Parkash Singh Badal today announced development works worth Rs 25.30 crore in the historic town of Malerkotla.

Addressing a massive gathering here after offering prayers at the local Eid Gah, the Chief Minister congratulated the people on this sacred festival which symbolizes universal brotherhood, peace and amity. Mr. Badal further said that the state government was duty bound to develop the historic town of Malerkotla and it would be spruced up as ‘Model Town’. The Chief Minister further said that no stone would be left unturned to ensure a comprehensive and all-round development of this city for which a roadmap has been already prepared. He further said that the city would be equipped with the ultra modern infra structure and basic civic amenities for which the efforts were on foot.

Announcing a series of bonanzas for the city, the Chief Minister said that while Rs 10 crore each would be spent on the development of two blocks of Malerkotla I and Malerkotla II, another sum of Rs 5 crore would be spent on providing the sewerage facilities to the wards of city. Likewise he said that Rs 25 lakh would be spent on the construction of Haj Centre in the Eid Gah whereas Rs 5 lakh would be utilized for the construction of a beautiful park near the local Mosque. Mr. Badal said that besides this a number of other initiatives were being taken by the state government to develop this town of historical and cultural importance.

The Chief Minister also said that in order to promote Urdu literature and language in the state, Punjab Urdu Academy, Malerkotla would be soon accorded recognition by the state government.

The Chief Minister categorically said that a member of the Muslim brethren would be soon handed over a coveted responsibility in the Punjab Minority Commission. Likewise he said that the community would also be given due representation in the Boards and Corporations of the state government. ‘We are highly indebted to the Muslim community for rallying solidly behind SAD-BJP in turbulent times’ added Mr. Badal.

The Chief Minister said that the state government was laying special emphasis for imparting quality education to the youngsters of Malerkotla for which concerted efforts were being made. He also said that in a significant decision our government has also extended the facility of Shagun scheme to the Muslim daughters too. Mr. Badal also said that in the same manner the state government has also ensured that land was provided for the burial grounds of the Muslim community across the state.

Recalling the age old ties between the Muslims and Sikhs, the Chief Minister said that the fact that the foundation stone of Sri Harmandir Sahib, the most revered place of Sikhs, was laid down by Sain Mian Meer exhibited the strong bond of unity and brotherhood amongst both the communities. He said that Sikhs could never repay the noble gesture made by the Nawab of Malerkotla by raising voice against the execution of ‘Chotta Sahibzadas’ at Sirhind. Mr. Badal said that every demand made by the people of this city was a ‘divine order’ for them and the state government would leave no stone unturned to fulfill it.

Exhorting the Muslim Community to play a proactive role in fighting the maladies like drug addiction, the Chief Minister said that it was the need of hour to save the future of our younger generations. Mr. Badal also called upon the Muslim brethren to safeguard the ethos of communal harmony, universal brotherhood and peace in the state.

The Chief Minister was accompanied by Rajya Sabha MP Mr. Sukhdev Singh Dhindsa, Chief Parliamentary Secretary Mrs. Farzana Aalam, Chairman Punjab Waqf Board Janaab Mohammed Izhaar Aalam, MLA Mr. Iqbal Singh Jhunda, former Minister Janaab Nusrat Ikraam Khan Bagge, Special Principal Secretary to Chief Minister Mr. KJS Cheema, Inspector General of Police (Patiala Range) Mr. Ishwar Singh, Deputy Commissioner Sangrur Mr. Kumar Rahul and Senior Suprintendent of Police Mr. MS Sidhu.

http://www.yespunjab.com/punjab/item/27626-badals-eid-announcement-for-malerkotla-to-be-developed-as-model-city/27626-badals-eid-announcement-for-malerkotla-to-be-developed-as-model-city

Mr. Sukhbir Singh Badal, Punjab Deputy Chief Minister today said that Punjab Government would soon bring a proposal to carve out burial grounds on Panchayati lands in villages, where Muslims have dense population and this proposal would be finalized within a short span of time with a view to eliminate hurdles of Muslim Community while performing last rites for departed souls.

Congratulating Muslim Community on the pious occasion of ID-UL-Fitar while participating in the ceremony in Idgah at Bathinda, Mr. Badal said that the survey to identify villages having Muslim population besides identification of Panchayati lands in their respective villages was on advanced stage of completion and after its completion, the Government would bring the policy, which would be approved within no time. Mr. Badal said that Punjab Government has enough Panchayati lands in Muslim populated villages and the process of carving out burial ground would also be immediately started after completion of remaining formalities.

Divulging details of welfare scheme launched by SAD-BJP Government for the betterment of Minorities in the state, Mr. Badal said that Punjab was providing in-toto free educations the minority students under ambitious Ashirwad Scheme up to level of Universities. He said that Minority students can apply online to take benefits of this scheme and contact the concerned district offices for any assistance, if needed. He said that till July this year more than 48000 students had applied under this scheme and it was expected that the number of students will be crossed to 1.5 lakh in current session. He said that Punjab Government is also coming with an ambitious program of health insurance for all poor families in the state, under which cashless treatment of Rs. 30000 would be provided to needy families. He said that for this purpose special insurance cards would be distributed among such families and this process would also be completed within next two-three months.

Fulfilling the long pending demands of Muslim Community, Mr. Badal announced that Punjab Government would construct houses for poor Muslim families at Bathinda. He said that the houses would be made on 18 acres of land besides construction of a state-of-the-art school for the children of Muslim families. He also announced a grant of Rs. 10 lakh for cleaning of Idgah Ground and Rs. 2 lakh for construction of Main Gate of Idgah. Mr. Badal on the spot directed district administration to prepare estimates for other remaining works of Idgah and sent directly to them for early execution of estimated works.

Felicitating the people of country especially Muslim Community on the eve of holy festival, Mr. Badal said that Eid-Ul-Fitr brings joy and glory to the people on the culmination of the month of holy Ramadan.

Meanwhile, Mr. Badal also released a book ‘Malwa Aaeene Islam’ published by Muslim Human Welfare Society. The members of society also honoured Mr. Badal and Chief Parliamentary Secretary Mr. Sarup Chand Singla.

http://www.yespunjab.com/punjab/item/27634-punjab-to-carve-out-burial-grounds-for-muslims-from-panchayati-lands-sukhbir

And he is supposed to be a religious vegetarian guy who is a role model for sikhs

Nah, no one here likes bouncers. Seeing a Sikh do this will make the British public love Sikhi and want to take amrit lol.

They'll be packing them in at the Gurdwaras on Sundays from now on!

Seriously though the bloke seems to be having a lot of problems.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/counties/10234413/Monty-Panesar-could-return-to-Northamptonshire-from-Sussex-as-concerns-grow-over-England-bowlers-mindset.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/10232427/England-should-give-second-chance-to-Monty-Panesar-aka-Sikh-With-The-Leak.html

Once the very symbol of American industrial might, Detroit became the biggest U.S. city to file for bankruptcy Thursday, its finances ravaged and its neighborhoods hollowed out by a long, slow decline in population and auto manufacturing.

The filing, which had been feared for months, put the city on an uncertain course that could mean laying off municipal employees, selling off assets, raising fees and scaling back basic services such as trash collection and snow plowing, which have already been slashed.

"Only one feasible path offers a way out," Gov. Rick Snyder said in a letter approving the move.

The filing marked a turning point for city and state leaders, who must now confront the challenge of rebuilding Detroit's broken budget in as little as a year.

Kevyn Orr, a bankruptcy expert hired by the state in March to stop the city's fiscal free-fall, said Detroit would continue paying its bills and employees.

But, said Michael Sweet, a bankruptcy attorney in Fox-Rothschild's San Francisco office, "they don't have to pay anyone they don't want to. And no one can sue them."

The city's woes have piled up for generations. In the 1950s, its population grew to 1.8 million people, many of whom were lured by plentiful, well-paying auto jobs. Later that decade, Detroit began to decline as developers starting building suburbs that lured away workers and businesses.

Then beginning in the late 1960s, auto companies began opening plants in other cities. Property values and tax revenue fell, and police couldn't control crime. In later years, the rise of autos imported from Japan started to cut the size of the U.S. auto industry.

By the time the auto industry melted down in 2009, only a few factories from GM and Chrysler were left. GM is the only one with headquarters in Detroit, though it has huge research and testing centers with thousands of jobs outside the city.

Detroit lost a quarter-million residents between 2000 and 2010. Today, the population struggles to stay above 700,000.

The result is a metropolis where whole neighborhoods are practically deserted and basic services cut off in places. Looming over the crumbling landscape is a budget deficit believed to be more than $380 million and long-term debt that could be as much as $20 billion.

In recent months, the city has relied on state-backed bond money to meet payroll for its 10,000 employees.

"It's an embarrassment, number one, to come to the realization that we're actually in this situation," said Kevin Frederick, an admissions representative for a local career training school. "Not that we didn't see it coming. I guess we have to take a couple of steps backward to move forward."

Orr made the filing in federal bankruptcy court under Chapter 9, the bankruptcy system for cities and counties.

He was unable to persuade a host of creditors, unions and pension boards to take pennies on the dollar to help with the city's massive financial restructuring. If the bankruptcy filing is approved, city assets could be liquidated to satisfy demands for payment.

Orr said Thursday that he "bent over backward" to work with creditors, rejecting criticism that he was too rigid. "Anybody who takes that position just hasn't been listening."

The bankruptcy could last through summer or fall 2014, which coincides with the end of Orr's 18-month appointment, he said.

Snyder determined earlier this year that Detroit was in a financial emergency and without a plan for improvement. He made it the largest U.S. city to fall under state oversight when a state loan board hired Orr. His letter was attached to Orr's bankruptcy filing.

Creditors and public servants "deserve to know what promises the city can and will keep," Snyder wrote. "The only way to do those things is to radically restructure the city and allow it to reinvent itself without the burden of impossible obligations."

A turnaround specialist, Orr represented automaker Chrysler LLC during its successful restructuring. He issued a warning early on in his tenure in Detroit that bankruptcy was a road he preferred to avoid.

Some city workers and retirement systems filed lawsuits to prevent Snyder from approving Orr's bankruptcy request, said Detroit-area turnaround specialist James McTevia.

They have argued that bankruptcy could change pension and retiree benefits, which are guaranteed under state law.

Others are concerned that a bankrupt Detroit will cause businesses large and small to reconsider their operations in the city. But General Motors does not anticipate any impact to its daily operations, the automaker said Thursday in a statement.

Detroit has more than double the population of the Northern California community of Stockton, Calif., which until Detroit had been the largest U.S. city ever to file for bankruptcy when it did so in June 2012.

Before Detroit, the largest municipal bankruptcy filing had involved Jefferson County, Ala., which was more than $4 billion in debt when it filed in 2011. Another recent city to have filed for bankruptcy was San Bernardino, Calif., which took that route in August 2012 after learning it had a $46 million deficit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/18/detroit-bankruptcy-keyn-orr-federal-chapter-9_n_3619099.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

If this happened to a city run by Sikhs I would expect lots of people talking about just desserts and Hukam. Well it's happened to an American city, maybe it's time they faced up to their past? Should the land around Detroit and the city itself be returned to the Iroquios people to make up for all the bad things that have been done by the immigrants?

These lines from a modern ballad put very clearly a truth that is too often forgotten. Victories are remembered and commemorated by medals and names inscribed in letters of gold on our regimental colours’ but people do not talk about defeats. Yet when brave men fail against desperate odds, the story of their gallant efforts to carry their flag to victory is quite as well worth the telling and the remembering as if the chance of war had given them the converted prize of success.

So it is that among the battles of the century that should not be forgotten we count the one solitary defeat that English sailors or soldiers ever suffered at the hands of the Chinese Admiral, Hope’s failure to force the entrance of the Pei-ho River at the Taku Forts on June 25th 1859: a failure amply improved by the gallant storming of the same forts in the following year.

Taku is a town near the mouth of the Pei-ho, which flowing between low, muddy banks, runs into the Gulf of Pe-cho-li. Thirty-four miles higher up the river is Tien-tsin, built at the junction of the Pei-ho with the Greand Canal. It is the port of Pekin, and a busy and prosperous place. Pekin, the capital, is some eighty miles still further inland. In the year 1858 the French and English had forced their way to Tien-tsin, passing the forts near Taku at the river mouth with but little difficulty, for the works were badly armed and held by an irresolute garrison which made but a poor defence.

When Tien-tsin was occupied, the Chinese asked for peace, and a treaty was signed there containing among other stipulations, an agreement that the envoys of England and France were to be received at Pekin within a year, and that the treaty was to be solemnly ratified there. Now the Chinese, as soon as the allies withdrew from Tien-tsin, began to regret having consented to allow the foreign ambassadors to enter their capital, and endeavoured to have it arranged that the treaty should be ratified elsewhere. But England and France insisted on the original agreement being carried out, and when the envoys of the two countries arrived off the mouth of the Pei-ho in June 1859, and announced their intention of proceeding up the river to Pekin, an English fleet under the command of Rear-Admiral Hope escorted them.

It was found that not only had the forts at the river mouth, which had so easily been silenced the year before, been put into a state of repair, but also the river was blocked against anything larger than rowing boats by a series of strong barriers. The admiral was informed that these had been placed on the river to keep out pirates and it was promised that they should be removed; but so from keeping this promise, the local mandarins set to work to strengthen the defences of the river. On June 21st, the admiral sent the Chinese commander a letter warning him that if the obstacles were not cleared out of the channel of the Pei-ho by the evening of the 24th, he would remove them by force.

The three days grace thus given to the Chinese he employed in preparations to make good his warning message. He had several powerful ships in his squadron, but none of these could take a direct part in the coming fight, for the entrance to the Pei-ho is obstructed by a wide stretch of shallows, the depth of water on the bar being only two feet at low water, and hardly more than eleven at high tide; and this only in a narrow channel scoured out by the river. Thus, for the actual on the forts, he had to rely on the gunboats of his fleet, a number of small wooden steamers of light draft built during the Crimean war for service in the shallow waters of the Baltic and Black Seas. The gunboats with which Admiral hope crossed the bar and anchored below the forts on the 23rd were the following: -

Plover, Banterer, forester, Haughty, Janus, Kestrel, Le, Opossum, Starling each of four guns; Nimrod and Cororant , each of six guns.

Each had a crew of about fifty or sixty officers and men, so that the eleven little steamers brought forty-eight guns 500 men into action. The heavier the ship outside the bar were to send in 500 or 600 more men, marines and blue-jackets it steam launches, boats and junks; this force being intended to be used as a landing party when the fire of the forts had been silenced. No one expected that this would prove a difficult business.

It was true that there was a big fort on the south side, with mud ramparts nearly half a mile long, and heavy towers behind them, and another large fort on the north bank, placed so as to sweep the band of the river; but on all previous occasions the Chinese gunners had made very bad practice with their guns, and had soon been driven from them by the fire of English ships; and, besides, it was not supposed that there were any large number of guns in position on the forts, for very few embrasures had been cut in the mud walls, so far as anyone could see.

On the evening of the 24th, no answer having been received from the shore, it was announced that the attack would be made next day, and after dark the admiral sent in one of his officers, Captain Willes (now Admiral Sir George Willes, G.C.B.), to examine the obstacles in the river and see what he could do to remove them. Three armed boats, provided with explosives, accompanied Willes. Rowing up quietly under cover of the darkness the boats came first to a row of iron stakes, each topped with a sharp spike and supported on a tripod base, so that they were just in the proper position to pierce the bottom of a ship coming up the river at high water.

This first barrier was just opposite the low end of the South Fort. Passing cautiously between two of the spikes, the daring explorers rowed up the river for a quarter of a mile, when they came to a second barrier, formed by a heavy cable of cocoa fibre and two chain cables stretched across the channel, twelve feet apart, and supported at every thirty feet by a floating boom securely anchored up and down stream. Two of the boats were left to a fix mine under the middle if this floating barrier, while Willes pushed on further into the darkness with the third. Just above the bend of the river he came to a third barrier, formed of two huge rafts, moored as to leave only a narrow zigzag channel in mid stream, this passage being still further secured with iron stakes.

Willes got out on one of the rafts and, crawling on hands and knees, examined it carefully, and decided that mere ramming with a gunboat’s prow would not be enough to displace it. As he crouched on the raft he could see the Chinese sentries on the riverbank, but was, happily, unseen by them. Returning to his boat, he dropped down to the second barrier. The mine was ready, and having lighted its fuse the boats pulled down the stream to the flotilla. The explosion revealed their presence to the Chinese, and a couple of harmless cannon shots were fired at them from the South Fort. The plucky little expedition had been a complete success; but before morning the Chinese had repaired the gap blown by the mine in the floating boom.

Early on Saturday June 25th, the gunboat flotilla cleared for action. Admiral Hope’s orders were that nine of the ships should anchor close to the first barrier and bring their guns to bear on the forts, while the two others broke through the barriers and cleared the way for a further advance. High water was at 11.30 am, and it was expected that all would be in position by that time; but the difficulty of working so many ships in a narrow channel, not more than 200 yards wide, with a strong current and with mud banks covered by shallow water on each side, was so great that it was not till after one that the ships had anchored, and even then two of them, the Banterer and the Starling, were stuck fast on the mud in positions from which it was not easy to get their guns to bear.

All this time the forts had not shown the least sign of life. Their embrasures were closed; a few black flags flew on the upper works, but not a soul was to be seen on the mud ramparts. It was a bright summer day, blazing hot, with a cloudless sky of deep blue overhead, and all round the little flotilla the dark waters of the river came swirling down on the ebb, so that already patches of yellow mud were showing here and there under the rush-covered banks.

The Plover, with all steam up and the admiral on board, was close to the first barrier of iron spikes, and the Opossum, now commanded by Captain Willes, lay close by her, the special task of this ship being to deal with this first obstacle. At a signal from the admiral the Opossum hitched a cable round one of the iron stakes, and, passing it over one of her winches, reversed her engines and tried thus to tear the stake out of the river. But it was so well fixed that it was not until half-past two, after half-an-hour of anxious work, that the obstacle gave way.

The admiral in the Plover now steamed through the gap thus formed followed by the Opossum. As the two little ships approached the floating barrier beyond, a flash from the long rampart on the left, the boom of a heavy gun, the whistle of a round shot in the air, warned them that the Chinese meant to resist.

Along the walls of the forts on either side banners were hoisted on every flag pole, embrasures were opened, guns run out, and from some six hundred yards of the rampart on the left, and from the North Fort out in front, the Chinese artillery, rapidly served and well laid, poured a storm of shot upon the leading ships.

Promptly came the English answer. Admiral Hope’s signal, “Engage the enemy,” flew from the masthead of the Plover; her four guns opened, three of them on the big fort away to the left, not more than two hundred yards off, the other replying to the North Fort, while the guns of the rest of the flotilla took up the loud chorus.

It was a fight at close quarters, and men who knew their business worked the English guns; but the Chinese fire, instead of slackening, seemed to grow heavier every minute. If a gun was silenced, if a shell burst in an embrasure and swept away all within reach of its explosion, another gun was promptly placed in battery, another band daring gunners took the places of the slain. They fired so steadily and aimed so truly, that to this day many hold that they had trained European artillerymen helping them. The iron storm of which they were exposed began to tell upon the two leading ships. The Plover had thirty-one out of her crew of forty killed or wounded in the first half-hour. Her commander, Lieutenant Rason, was literally cut in two by a round shot; the admiral was wounded in the thigh, but refused to leave the deck; and Captain McKenna, who was attached to his staff, was killed at his side. Nine unwounded men only were left on board, but they, with the help of some of their wounded comrades, kept two of the guns in action, though they fought on a deck slippery with blood, and with the bulwarks, boats, and spars of their ship cut to pieces by the Chinese shot.

It was about this time that a boat flying the stars and stripes came pulling in from an American cruiser that lay outside the bar. Commodore Tatnall of the United States navy was on board, and he had come to the Plover, regardless of the Chinese fire, to offer some help to the English Admiral. As a midshipman he had fought against the British in the war of 1812, but, as the old sailor said to admiral Hope, “blood is thicker than water”; and though, as a neutral, he could not join in the attack, he offered to send in his steam launch and help to convey the wounded out of danger, an offer that was gratefully accepted. When he bade good day to the admiral and went back to his boat, he had to wait a little for his men. They came aft, looking hot and with the black marks of powder on there hands and faces. “What have you been doing, you rascals?” Said Tatnall. “Don’t you know we’re neutrals?” “Beg pardon, sir,” said the spokesman of the party. “but they were a bit short-handed with the bow-gun, and we thought it no harm to give them a hand while we were waiting.” The incident is remembered in the navy to this day as a good deed done for the old country by Brother Jonathan.

At three o’clock Admiral Hope ordered the Plover, now almost disabled, to drop down the river to a safer station, and transferred his flag to the Opossum, the Lee and the Haughty steaming up to the place left vacant in the front of the fight. A few minutes more, and a round shot crashed through the Opossum’s rigging close to the admiral, knocking him down and breaking three of his ribs; but though suffering severely the brave commander made light of his injuries, a bandage was adjusted round his chest, and seated on the deck of the gunboat he still kept the command, and later on even insisted on being lifted into its barge in order to visit and encourage the crews of the Haughty and the Lee.

“Opossum, ahoy!” hailed an officer from the Haughty. “Your stern is on fire.”

“Cant help it,” shouted back her commander. “Can’t spare men to put it out. Have only enough to keep our guns going.” But, in her turn, the Opossum had to give up the fight for a while and drop down to the first barrier. The Lee and the Haughty now bore the brunt of the fight, and suffered severely. Everything that could be smashed on their decks was knocked to pieces, and the Lee was hit badly in several places at and below the water line. Woods, her boatswain, informed her commander, Lieutenant Jones, that unless the shot-holes could be plugged she would sink, as her pumps and donkey engine could not get the water out as fast as it came in. “Well, then, we must sink,” said the lieutenant; “you cant get at the worst of the holes from inside, and I’m not going to order a man to go over the side with the tide running down like this, and our propeller going.” But Woods replied by promptly volunteering to go over the side and see what he could do. His commander warned him that the screw must be kept going, or the ship would drift out of her place-so, besides the chance of drowning, he would risk being killed by the propeller blades; but Woods, remarking that the chance of being killed was much of a much ness anywhere just then, went over the side, with a line round his waits, and a supply of shot-plugs and rags in his hands, and, diving again and again, and more than once sweeping down with the tide under the stern and rising just clear of the wash of the screw, he successfully plugged several shot-holes. But for that the ship continued to fill, and before long had to give up her place in the fight and run aground to prevent her sinking.

The Cormorant replaced the Lee, the admiral by his own request, being seated in a chair on her deck. He had already once fainted, and the doctors now persuaded him to allow them to send him to the hospital ship on the bar, and Captain Shadwell, the next senior officer, took the command of the attack. At half-past five, when the battle had lasted three hours, the Kestrel sank at her anchors. Of the eleven gunboats, six were disabled or put out of action. But the fire of the Chinese batteries was slackening, and at 6.30, after a hurried council of war on board the Cormorant, it was resolved to bring in the marines and sailors who had been waiting in boats and junks inside the bar to act as a landing party, and try to carry the South Fort by a bold rush.

It was after seven, and very little daylight was left for the daring attempt, when the boats were towed in by the Opossum and the Toey ‘Wan, a little Chinese steamer. Captain Shadwell took command of the landing party, which was made up of blue jackets under Captain Vansittart, and Commanders Heath and Commerell, R.N. Sixty French sailors, under Commander Tricault, of the French frigate Duhalya, the marines under Colonel Lemon, and a party of sappers with scaling ladders, under Major Forbes, R.E.

As the boats pulled into the shore, the fire from the North Fort had ceased, and only an occasional shot was fired from the long rampart of the South fort. The landing place was five hundred yards in front of the right bastion of this fort. The tide had fallen so far that it was not possible to get any nearer, and the column had to make its way across these five hundred yards of mud covered with weeds and cut up with ditches and pools, the ground being so soft in places that the men sank to their waists in it. And as the first boat’s crew landed on this mud bank, suddenly, to the surprise of everyone, the whole front of the South Fort burst into flame.

The silence of its guns was only a clever ruse, to lure the British to a closer attack. Now every gun opened fire again, while Chinese, regardless of the covering fire from the gunboats, crowded on to the crest of the rampart, and opened fire with small arms upon the landing party. As they struggled onwards to the river bank round shot and grape, balls from swivels and muskets, rockets, and even arrows, fell among them in showers. Captain Shadwell was one of the first to be wounded; Vansittart fell, with one leg shattered by a ball; dead and wounded men lay on all sides, and the wounded had to be carried back to the boats to save them from being smothered in the mud.

Three broad ditches lay between the landing place and the fort. Not 150 men reached the second of these and only fifty the third that lay just below the rampart. Several of these gallant bands were officers-Triacault, the Frenchman, Commerell and Heath, Parke and Hawkey of the Marines, and Major Forbes of the Engineers. Their cartridges were nearly all wet and useless, and they had only one scaling ladder. It was reared against the rampart, and ten men were climbing up it, when a volley from above killed three and wounded five of them, and then the ladder was thrown and broken.

There was no help for it but to retire.

It was now dark, but the Chinese burnt flaring blue lights and sent up rockets and fireballs, and by their light fired on their retiring enemies. Sixty-eight men were killed and nearly 300 wounded, in the advance and retreat of the landing party. Several of the boats had been sunk, and many of the men had to wait up to their waists, and even their necks, in water, on the river’s brink, till they could be taken off.

It was 1 a.m. before Commanders Heath and Commerell, the two last of the party, re-embarked. Then the gunboats slipped down to the bar, a party being sent in next day to blow upon or burn those of the grounded ships that could not be got off.

So ended the disastrous battle on the Pei-ho. Next year an allied force of British and French troops, under General Sir Hope Grant and General de Montauban, taught the Chinese that, notwithstanding their victory over Admiral Hope’s little gunboats, they were in no position to cope with the great Powers of the West. While the allied fleets watched the entrance of the river, 11,000 British and Indian troops and between 6,000 and 7,000 Frenchmen were landed at Peh-tang, some eight miles north of Taku. A wide expanse of marshes separated Peh-tang from the forts which were to be the first object of the allied operations; but these obstacles were turned by a march inland, in which the allies defeated the Chinese field-army at Sin-ho, on August 12th, and coming down the north bank of the Pei-ho, seized the walled town of Tang-ku, three miles above the forts, on the 14th.

These forts were four in number. There were, first, the North and South forts, which Admiral Hope had attacked the year before, and a little higher up the river there were two others, known as the small North fort and the small South Fort. They stood on opposite banks of the river, and did embattled walls of sun-dried mud enclose both alike-square structures, a few heavier guns being placed on a high platform in the centre, and the whole being surrounded with a double ditch, full of water, too deep to ford. Between the inner ditch and the rampart were broad belts of sharpened bamboo spikes, about fifteen feet wide. The swampy nature of the country rendered the approach to the forts difficult for artillery.

At first there was a difference of opinion between the two generals as to how the forts were to be attacked. It was agreed that as they were built to protect the river mouth, and their strongest fronts were toward the sea, they should be assailed from the landside; but General de Montauban wanted to cross-river, and take the great South Fort first of all. Sir Hope Grant, however, insisted that a much better plan would be to begin with the small North Fort, and predicted confidently that if it were taken all the other forts would be quickly surrendered, as each of them in turn could bring it’s fire to bear upon those still in the hands of the Chinese. Happily, this plan was adopted, though the French General was so dissatisfied with it that he only sent a few hundred men to help in the attack of the fort, and came to look on him, without even wearing his sword, as if he wished to disclaim all part in the business.

The swamps so narrowed the available ground in front of the small North Fort that the attacking force was limited to 2,500 English and some 400 French. On the evening of the 20th of August, Forty-four guns and three 8-inches mortars had been placed in battery before the fort.

At five a.m. on the 21st they began the bombardment, which was to prepare the way for the storming party. The English fire soon began to silence the Chinese guns, and about an hour after the bombardment began, a shell from the mortar battery penetrated into one of the magazines of the fort. It blew up with a deafening explosion, and so dense was the cloud of smoke that settled down upon the scene of the disaster, so utterly silent was every Chinese gun in the work, that at first it seemed as if the fort had ceased to exist; but as the smoke cleared the Chinese bravely reopened fire.

Down at the mouth of the river, Admiral Hope’s ships were once more engaging the two outer forts; but this was done merely to keep their garrisons well occupied, and to prevent them sending help to the smaller fort. Here, too, fortune helped the British, and one of Hope’s shells blew up a magazine in the South Fort, doing a fearful amount of damage to its defenders.

Soon after six o’clock the storming column was ordered to advance against the small north Fort, the English force being mainly composed of the 44th and 67th regiments. In front of the column a party of marines carried a pontoon bridge for crossing the ditches; but as they approached the walls they were met with such a heavy fire of musketry that the attempt to bring up the pontoons was abandoned. Fifteen of the men carrying them fell under a single volley.

The French had adopted a simpler plan. They had bamboo ladders, which were carried for them by Chinese coolies. Heedless of the fire of their own countrymen, the coolies laid the ladders across the ditches, and, standing up to their necks in water, supported them while the Frenchmen scrambled across. “These poor coolies behaved gallantly,” wrote Sir Hope Grant in his journal, “and though some of them were shot down, they never flinched in the least.” The fact is, that a Chinaman does not seem to know what the fear of death is; and while these men were exposing their lives for a few pence, their countrymen on the ramparts were just as recklessly standing up on the very crest of the wall in order to get a better shot at the stormers.

The English crossed the ditches, partly by swimming and struggling through the muddy water, partly by the French ladders, partly over a drawbridge which Major Anson of the Staff very gallantly brought into use by crossing the ditch almost alone, and cutting through with his sword the ropes that held it up.

The stormers were now crowded together between the inner ditch and the rampart. The Chinese muskets, but they dropped cannon shot, big stones, explosive grenades, jars of lime, and stifling stinkpots on to their heads. The scaling ladders were replaced against the rampart, but the Chinese caught them and pulled them into the fort, or threw them down, spearing and shooting all who mounted them.

Men and officers tried to scramble in where the bombardment had broken down the embrasures for the guns. One brave Frenchman reached the top of the wall, fired his rifle at the Chinese, and took another, which was handled up to him and fired it, and then fell speared through the face.

Another, pickaxe in hand tried to break down the top of the wall. He was shot dead, but as he fell Lieutenant Burslm, of the 67th, seized his pick and went on with the work.

He and his comrade-Lieutenant Rogers, of the same regiment (now Major-General Roger, V.C.)-Climbed into a embrasure, only to be thrown out; but Rogers got in through another, helped up by Lieutenant Lenon, who made a stepping place for him by driving the point of his sword well into the mud wall, and holding up the hilt. Rogers helped up Lenon and the others near at hand, and at the same time Fauchard, a drummer of the French storming party, got in close by.

Behind him came the standard bearer of his regiment (the 102nd of the Line), and as the Chinese gave way there was a race between the Frenchman and Young Lieutenant Chaplin (now Major-General Chaplin, V.C.), who carried the colours of the 67th, to see who should first get a standard fixed on the top of the fort. Chaplin, though he was wounded in three places, won this gallant race, and planted the British flag on the high central battery of the fort.

“The poor Chinese now had a sad time of it,” writes Sir Hope Grant. “They had fought desperately, and with great bravery, few of them apparently having attempted to escape. Indeed, they could hardly have affected their retreat by the other side of the fort. The wall was very high, and the ground below bristled with innumerable sharp bamboo stakes. Then intervened a broad ditch, another row of stakes, and finally another ditch. The only regular exit-the gate-was barred by us. Numbers were killed, and I saw three poor wretches impaled upon the stakes, and yet a considerable number succeeded in getting off. The fort presented a terrible appearance of devastation, and was filled with the dead and dying. The explosion of the magazine had ruined of the magazine had ruined a large portion of the interior. Many of the guns were dismounted, and the parapets battered to pieces.”

The Chinese lost 400 men out of a garrison of 500. The English loss was 21 killed and 184 wounded. The loss would have been heavier if the Chinese had had better cartridges. Thus, for instance, Sir Robert Napier (afterwards Lord Napier of Magdala), who led the advance of the storming column, was hit in five places by bullets, but none of them had force enough to do more than inflict a bruise.

The capture of the remaining forts was an easy matter. The smaller South Fort, only 400 yards from the North Fort, and commanded by its guns, was at once abandoned by the Chinese, and white flags were hoisted on the two larger forts; but on the great North Fort being summoned to surrender the garrison sent back a refusal. The guns of the captured fort of turned on it; other guns were brought up from the English batteries, and the attack was about to be begun by a bombardment, when General Collineau, of the French army, noticing that there was no one on the rampart nearest him, marched forward rapidly with 600 men, sent a lot of them in through a big embrasure, opened a gate, and took the fort without firing a shot. About 2,000 prisoners were taken here, and, to their great delight, they were simply disarmed and told to go home. They evidentially expected to be massacred. In the fort some of the guns taken from the ships lost in the fight of June 25th 1859.

In the afternoon the fort on the south bank was summoned to surrender, and, after some parleying, Hang-Foo, the officer in command agreed to hand it over the next day. Early on the 22nd Sir Robert Napier took possession to the southern forts, in which he found no less than 600 guns, large and small.

The same day Admiral Hope’s gunboats steamed up the river, and cleared away the barriers below which the fierce fight of the year before he raged so long, and thus the defeat on the Pei-ho was avenged and the way to Tien-tsin and Pekin was opened.

A few weeks later, the armies of England and France marched in triumph into the imperial city.

Battles of the Nineteenth Century . Pages 27, By Archibald Forbes

Someone was asking about mid 19th century battles that involved rivers and the use of boats in similar ways to what happened to the AngloSikh Wars, so here's a relatively detailed account of one that took place around that time.

A simple knock could have set off the foil. With no independant witnesses the video is no proof of anything.

I tell you. The War On Terror has proper blown up in the coalition's face. Totally out of control.

You wait till NATO leave Afghanistan and the army and police (trained by the West) have to decide whether to fight the Taliban or just take their orders from them instead.

Did you guys hear?

First the above mass prison break in Afghanistan, then another mass prison break took place the next day in Iraq. A lot of 'leaders' were sprung.

Do you think that the two breaks are connected or just coincidence?

Obviously they are connected. America is backing out of the region.

If this stuff about American and Canadian shale oil estimates are true, expect more extremism in the Middle East as their economies collapse. Remember what happened to us Sikhs the last time the Islamic World lost it's economic clout?

It sounds like you are projecting what you think people think onto them. Why do you care? If someone ridicules you, say something back in a witty way if you are that bothered. Bigots will never cease to be bigots.

But, beware that the insolent crow
Can lay not its hands upon one whose protection is Huma, the Bird of Heaven.

http://youtu.be/QMzvaQ6yg5Q

now this is the result of the crazy desperado migration in legal or illegal way to far of countries like Greece and Georgia to work as laborers , when we don't like out fields someone else will like them and want them.

The problem is that no one wants to farm but they still want the farm land as some kind of insurance. If we have a frank discussion about agriculture and it's role and offer some kind of ideas, there will be no way forward. The fact that so many NRIs and recent emigrants cling onto land while people there dont have a field to crap in shows how hollow our ideas of equality are. The fact that the population of East Punjab has increased six times over since 1947 whilst EP has stayed the same should have set alarm bells ringing. Unfortunately people dont think about that, they just want more land to be magicked out of thin air. It's about time farming was left to those who want to farm rather than those who are in politics or abroad or who want to act like their ancestors did. So who's got some ideas then?

The little girl knows that islam is above cultures, languages and history. we saw that in the creation of pakistan and after.

i dont think many pakis would want to come to e panjab. or india for asylum either, that would be too shameful for them.

Well it wasnt a few centuries ago when our Guru Nanak walked amongst the ancestors of the average Middle Easterner in their bustling advanced cities.

If you know pakis, they dont shame unless their noses are rubbed in it. Plenty of them in the UK who dont like the Brits. I've come across Brits who've travelled abroad for work and hated the people they lived with but kept stumm so they could earn enough to eventually return here rich. The real world isnt quite as logical as some Sikhs like to think it is. Think of it another way, did the sulleh think it shameful to side with the Brits in ASW2 or to kill their neighbours during Partition?

Exactly, just like here in England.Where hordes of migrants do the jobs the indigenous are either unwilling or incapable of doing and then turn around and start crying about immigration.

Truth is that Sikhs could be doing the jobs that are being given to migrants but consider themselves above it.

The thing is that the Poles are a class apart from the English. When you get served by a Polish (or most other E.Euro) person in a shop they might speak with an accent but you can understand them and are incredibly polite. They know enough maths or decency to not attempt to shortchange you and give an overall pleasant experience. English kids are borderline feral. I cant understand some of them and they always try to forget things or need you to speak slowly so they can understand you. Business leaders even alude to this when asked about it. The Poles get paid the same as the English. They just do a better job. These immigrants in EP get paid much less and as it's not their home dont care how they foul up the place. Mind you, with the retarded mentality of our lot, they treat EP like crap too whilst staring doe eyed at whiter countries. I say we kick out the coconuts and let the place be modelled on how Maharaja Ranjit Singh's kingdom would have developed rather than let it turn into a fundo shithole or Badal's disneyfied multiculti vision of the West. If you want to live muslims, move to a muslim country. Being a minority in other parts of the world hasnt exactly done Sikhs any favours.

Look Dal, I know racism in the UK has been shitty. I know that you have come across some really retarded Jatts with their tongues so far up cold Angrezi arse that they think they are licking chocolate ice cream. But you cant really compare what's going on in the UK to back home.

In the UK all we hear about is how great this country is. You dont see English people fleeing abroad to act as brickies or prossies in Singapore/Dubai/New York/Shanghai. Britain is a dominant power and it's immigrant policy is well thought out, even you know that it is about projecting Britain's image. The English lower classes just dont want to work. Anywhere. The SIkh emigrants want to work, just not in East Punjab. They are taught to be chalak and selfish, but when they go abroad they give it there all to do the most criminal or basic tasks. We are a colonised people unlike the English.

If you want an analogy, it's like the Native Americans and the colonists. The Natives are too busy living off past glories or defunct social ideas that are limitting their perception of the new threat. Our chiefs are too busy hiding the hatchets or guzzling fire water or selling out for anything that they think makes them like the people who are colonising them. Look at the Americans today, they always go on about how their ancestors fought for the land, worked hard, didnt rape squaws but that Native women were easy, that they deserve the land as the locals werent using it. Muslims and other immigrants will say the same after they have finished in East Punjab. It's time to break out of the reservation and teach the scumbags, internal and external, a lesson.

Sounds more like Denmark to be honest, were they actually did better after getting rid of the immigrants.

Biharis and Banglas are fairly different. It's more recent waves causing issues. Either way it's not like we invaded them, deposed their Royal Family, effed up their religion, deindustrialised their economy, brainwashed them into hating certain countries before winding them up and letting them loose on the battlefield, segregated them along religous lines, committed massacres, rapes and other police state style brutality before tearing them in half for no other reason than to get some airbases. With so many poor Sikhs in Africa and other parts of India not getting a look in, it's almost as if this was done deliberately. SIkhs here also pay a lot in taxes, we dont line the pockets of those who dont want to pay a living wage in the UK. When these 8-10 musis per room are wound up enough by the difference in living conditions and their notorious persecution complex, oh boy! will the rich w*nkers wish they had just paid for machines or reasonable wages. Mind you they'll probably just leg it and leave the poor to fend off the invasion.

It would be better if the banglas went abroad and the Punjabis stayed at home. But that will never happen. Badal's got the multicultural bug and is desperate to model East Punjab as some kind of retarded pindufied version of his idea of what the West is like.

Punjabi kids are filled with all kinds of bigotted crap. A lot of it is from their relatives over here, telling them how great it is and how wonderful it is when they actually live in a two up, two down in Southall. When I was over there I came across this bloke who was bragging about he was so rich he invested in a house in Luton. His uncle had said it was a good investment (or 200k down the drain if you ask me) but he was having problems getting anyone to rent it and wanted to know if I knew the area. Cos I came from England and have been to Luton once as a kid..... With that kind of stupidity combined with the idea that all Sikhs are chalak whilst those abroad are whiter than white, it's no wonder they would rather be porn stars or builders abroad. But you know as I do that has more to do with their mentality than real conditions there. They dont work like that in EP because they think that working for anyone else or working too hard is doing someone else a favour. Where as when they are abroad they think they are free and part of some big family so they sink to any low to look like productive members of society.

The new violence is the result of increasing awareness of the agenda of others. It is an attempt at intimidation and forcing Sikhs not to support anyone outside the mainstream or to hate the police as they are projecting themselves as rescuers after recent revelations about the 80s. It's an attempt by those who make money out of muslim immigration to cleanse the Punjab of all those who dont agree with them. Either way they are playing with fire. Even if they win, the muslims will just bide their time like they did in the 19th century. Then..... KABOOM!!! Oh well. Dont say I never warned ya.

Yeah we know they do this but in this case this could be an independent move from the jihadis outside of the governments radar?.

They wouldnt have made it pass Dover or Heathrow if they didnt have Haguey boy's blessing.

I'm from from East London dude, mofos have been going jihads in Lebanon, training in Pak for decades. If it weren't for the government lockdown LOADS more would go now. Maybe in the countryside where you live this is news but to be frank this is kind of pedestrian to my mind.

So the womens got balls to fight. whippee! Looks a black women got herself some dreamy Arab fighter. Good for her!

Ok ok, so you may have to use a surfboard to get around the sea of jihadis in East London but for some of us the interviews above are very interesting. The candid discussion, the exposure of motivation, mentality, attitudes, actions etc are all very revealing and novel.

What, that our people are twats who haven't got a clue? I'd say any apnay getting caught out in sullay warzones now are morons given that we all know what's happened in Afghanistan.

Just because you or me can see it doesnt mean everyone can. You know how elders keep their heads in the sand and force everyone to tow the line in the hope it all goes away. The women, youngsters and kids in these places cant be blamed for their dumb old men having the wool over their eyes.

Bare in mind that wars in Kashmir, the Middle East and Caucasus wont deter Sikhs from back home running abroad to work in brothels and building sites. But that doesnt mean that those who already live in places around there should be just told to go suck eggs cos we are safe.

Anyone with a brain has known that Kashmir was on a hiatus until the war on commonsense wound down.

'Nah man, we and da mussis is best blads naw, ya dont know! We iz all brown yer get me, we live in peace and smoke da herb together!'

Or whatever the legions of useful idiots out there would say.

I don't know of any Muslim problem in E. Panjab?

Pray do tell.

Well certainly old boy. Shut the door and have a seat wont you.

The 'industrialisation' of East Punjab (in the loosest sense of the word) has led to a lot muslims coming to East Punjab.

A former top cop, some muslim, decided to build or renovate mosques for them. As well as having murdered thousands of Punjabis during the 80s, he decided to use money from the Badals and abroad to pay for the conversion of Sikh orphans, poor Punjabis and lower castes to Islam.

These muslims have used their clout to demand land for burials, more respect to be shown to their beliefs, a blind eye to be turned to the trafficking of Sikh women abroad, shaming locals to not allow for parts of Punjabi history to be told etc. Muslims have been found to be carrying large amounts of weapons in transports and stockpiling them in Jalandhar and Ludhiana.

Even the Americans have taken notice, here is a leaked cable found in the Wikileaks revelations:

Now Badal proposes a 'New Chandigarh' built in East Punjab to house all our muslim brothers. New Sirhind more like. Haryana are laughing their pants off as it allows them to claim Old Chandigarh all to themselves. As usual the older Sikh generation seem oblivious to being outmaneuvred and rush ahead to stitch up the younger generation.

As Badal proposes this, mixed death squads roam villages and try to kill anyone they can get their hands on.

http://youtu.be/7u5wJt6bBd4

So who knows, maybe Muji Mary will turn up in East Punjab one day. Better to get to understand them now. Lights on, get back to it.

An Arab city of the early medieval period. Urban centers in the Middle East were of a size and wealth all but unknown in the Christian west during this period, encouraging the development of a large and diverse fraternity of criminals. From a contemporary manuscript.

The year is—let us say—1170, and you are the leader of a city watch in medieval Persia. Patrolling the dangerous alleyways in the small hours of the morning, you and your men chance upon two or three shady-looking characters loitering outside the home of a wealthy merchant. Suspecting that you have stumbled across a gang of housebreakers, you order them searched. From various hidden pockets in the suspects’ robes, your men produce a candle, a crowbar, stale bread, an iron spike, a drill, a bag of sand—and a live tortoise.

The reptile is, of course, the clincher. There are a hundred and one reasons why an honest man might be carrying a crowbar and a drill at three in the morning, but only a gang of experienced burglars would be abroad at such an hour equipped with a tortoise. It was a vital tool in the Persian criminals’ armory, used—after the iron spike had made a breach in a victim’s dried-mud wall—to explore the property’s interior.

We know this improbable bit of information because burglars were members of a loose fraternity of rogues, vagabonds, wandering poets and outright criminals who made up Islam’s medieval underworld. This broad group was known collectively as the Banu Sasan, and for half a dozen centuries its members might be encountered anywhere from Umayyad Spain to the Chinese border. Possessing their own tactics, tricks and slang, the Banu Sasan comprised a hidden counterpoint to the surface glories of Islam’s golden age. They were also celebrated as the subjects of a scattering of little-known but fascinating manuscripts that chronicled their lives, morals and methods.

According to Clifford Bosworth, a British historian who has made a special study of the Banu Sasan, this motley collection of burglars’ tools had some very precise uses:

British orientalist Clifford Bosworth described the Banu Sasan–and provided new interpretations of their methods.

The thieves who work by tunneling into houses and by murderous assaults are much tougher eggs, quite ready to kill or be killed in the course of their criminal activities. They necessarily use quite complex equipment… [The iron spike and an iron hand with claws] are used for the work of breaking through walls, and the crowbar for forcing open doors; then, once a breach is made, the burglar pokes a stick with a cloth on the end into the hole, because if he pokes his own head through the gap, [it] might well be the target for the staff, club or sword of the houseowner lurking on the other side.

The tortoise is employed thus. The burglar has with him a flint-stone and a candle about as big as a little finger. He lights the candle and sticks it on the tortoise’s back. The tortoise is then introduced through the breach into the house, and it crawls slowly around, thereby illuminating the house and its contents. The bag of sand is used by the burglar when he has made his breach in the wall. From this bag, he throws out handfuls of sand at intervals, and if no-one stirs within the house, he then enters it and steals from it; apparently the object of the sand is either to waken anyone within the house when it is thrown down, or else to make a tell-tale crushing noise should any of the occupants stir within it.

Also, the burglar may have with him some crusts of dry bread and beans. If he wishes to conceal his presence, or hide any noise he is making, he gnaws and munches at these crusts and beans, so that the occupants of the house think that it is merely the cat devouring a rat or mouse.

As this passage hints, there is much about the Banu Sasan that remains a matter of conjecture. This is because our knowledge of the Islamic underworld comes from only a handful of surviving sources. The overwhelming mass of Arabic literature, as Bosworth points out, “is set in a classical mold, the product of authors writing in urban centers and at courts for their patrons.” Almost nothing written about daily life, or the mass of the people, survives from earlier than the ninth century (that is, the third century AH), and even after that date the information is very incomplete.

The Abbasid caliphate at the time of Haroun al-Rashid. Photo by Gabagool via Wikimedia Commons

It is not at all certain, for example, how the Banu Sasan came by their name. The surviving sources mention two incompatible traditions. The first is that Islamic criminals were considered to be followers—”sons”— of a (presumably legendary) Sheikh Sasan, a Persian prince who was displaced from his rightful place in the succession and took to living a wandering life. The second is that the name is a corrupted version of Sasanid, the name of the old ruling dynasty of Persia that the Arabs destroyed midway through the seventh century. Rule by alien conquerors, the theory goes, reduced many Persians to the level of outcasts and beggars, and forced them to live by their wits.

There is no way now of knowing which of these tales, if either, is rooted in truth. What we can say is that the term “Banu Sasan” was once in widespread use. It crops up to describe criminals of every stripe, and also seems to have been acknowledged, and indeed used with pride, by the villains of this period.

Who were they, then, these criminals of Islam’s golden age? The majority, Bosworth says, seem to have been tricksters of one sort or another,

who used the Islamic religion as a cloak for their predatory ways, well aware that the purse-strings of the faithful could easily be loosed by the eloquence of the man who claims to be an ascetic or or mystic, or a worker of miracles and wonders, to be selling relics of the Muslim martyrs and holy men, or to have undergone a spectacular conversion from the purblindness of Christianity or Judaism to the clear light of the faith of Muhammad.

Ibn Abbad, a minor Persian vizier of the 10th century, was patron to Abu Dulaf, a poet who earned his place at court by telling ribald stories of Islam’s medieval underworld.

Amira Bennison identifies several adaptable rogues of this type, who could “tell Christian, Jewish or Muslim tales depending on their audience, often aided by an assistant in the audience who would ‘oh’ and ‘ah’ at the right moments and collect contributions in return for a share of the profits,” and who thought nothing of singing the praises of both Ali and Abu Bakr—men whose memories were sacred to the Shia and the Sunni sects, respectively. Some members of this group would eventually adopt more legitimate professions—representatives of the Banu Sasan were among the first and greatest promoters of printing in the Islamic world—but for most, their way of life was something they took pride in. One of the best-known examples of the maqamat (popular) literature that flourished from around 900 tells the tale of Abu Dulaf al-Khazraji, the self-proclaimed king of vagabonds, who secured a tenuous position among the entourage of a 10th-century vizier of Isfahan, Ibn Abbad, by telling sordid, titillating, tales of the underworld.

“I am of the company of beggar lords,” Abu Dulaf boasts in one account,

the cofraternity of the outstanding ones,

One of the Banu Sasan…

And the sweetest way of life we have experienced

is one spent in sexual indulgence and wine drinking.

For we are the lads, the only lads who really matter, on land and sea.

In this sense, of course, the Banu Sasan were merely the Middle Eastern equivalents of rogues who have always existed in every culture and under the banner of every religion; Christian Europe had equivalents enough, as Chaucer’s Pardoner can testify. Yet the criminals produced by medieval Islam seem to have been especially resourceful and ingenious.

Street scene in a Middle Eastern town during the medieval period.

Ismail El Outamani suggests that this was because the Banu Sasan were a product of an urbanization that was all but unknown west of Constantinople at this time. The Abbasid caliphate’s capital, Baghdad, had a population that peaked at perhaps half a million in the days of Haroun al-Rashid (c.763-809), the sultan depicted in the Thousand and One Nights–large and wealthy enough to offer crooks the sort of wide variety of opportunities that encouraged specialization. But membership of the fraternity was defined by custom as much as it was by criminal inclination; poets, El Outmani reminds us, literally and legally became rogues whenever a patron dispensed with their services.

While most members of the Banu Sasan appear to have lived and worked in cities, they also cropped up in more rural areas, and even in the scarcely populated deserts of the region. The so-called prince of camel thieves, for instance—one Shaiban bin Shihab—developed the novel technique of releasing a container filled with voracious camel ticks on the edges of an encampment. When the panicked beasts of burden scattered, he would seize his chance and steal as many as he could. To immobilize any watchdogs in the area, other members of the Banu Sasan would “feed them a sticky mixture of oil-dregs and hair clippings”—the contemporary writer Damiri notes—”which clogs their teeth and jams up their jaws.”

An image from The Book of Misers, a ninth century work of satire by Al-Jahiz. The book contains sections dealing with rogues and vagabonds–members of the Banu Sasan.

The best-known of the writers who describe the Banu Sasan is Al-Jahiz, a noted scholar and prose stylist who may have been of Ethiopian extraction, but who lived and wrote in the heartland of the Abbasid caliphate in the first half of the ninth century. Less well known, but of still greater importance, is the Kashf al-asrar, an obscure work by the Syrian writer Jaubari that dates to around 1235. This short book—the title can be translated as Unveiling of Secrets—is in effect a guide to the methods of the Banu Sasan, written expressly to put its readers on guard against tricksters and swindlers. It is a mine of information concerning the methods of the Islamic underworld, and is plainly the result of considerable research; at one point Jaubari tells us that he studied several hundred works in order to produce his own; at another, he notes that he has uncovered 600 stratagems and tricks used by housebreakers alone. In all, Jaubari sets out 30 chapters’ worth of information on the methods of everyone from crooked jewelers—whom he says had 47 different ways of manufacturing false diamonds and emeralds—to alchemists with their “300 ways of dakk” (falsification). He details the way in which money-changers wore magnetized rings to deflect the indicator on their scales, or used rigged balances filled with mercury, which artificially inflated the weight of the gold that was placed on them.

A romantic depiction of a wandering poet from the medieval period, from a later manuscript.

Our sources are united in suggesting that a large proportion of the Banu Sasan were Kurds, a people seen by other Middle Eastern peoples as brigands and predators. They also show that the criminal slang they employed drew on a wide variety of languages. Much of it has its origins in what Johann Fück has termed “Middle Arabic,” but the remainder seems to be derived from everything from Byzantine Greek to Persian, Hebrew and Syriac. This is a useful reminder not only of what a cosmopolitan place western Asia was during the years of the early Islamic ascendancy, but also that much criminal slang has its origins in the requirement to be obscure—most obviously because there is often an urgent need to hide what was being discussed from listeners who might report the speakers to the police.

Ultimately, however, what strikes one most about the Banu Sasan is their remarkable inclusiveness. At one extreme lie the men of violence; another of Bosworth’s sources, ar-Raghib al-Isfahani, lists five separate categories of thug, from the housebreaker to out-and-out killers such as the sahib ba’j, the “disemboweler and ripper-open of bellies,” and the sahib radkh, the “crusher and pounder” who accompanies lone travelers on their journeys and then, when his victim has prostrated himself in prayer, “creeps up and hits him simultaneously over the head with two smooth stones.” At the other lie the poets, among them the mysterious Al-Ukbari—of whom we are told little more than that he was “the poet of rogues, their elegant exponent and the wittiest of them all.”

In his writings, Al-Ukbari frankly admitted that he could not “earn any sort of living through philosophy or poetry, but only through trickery.” And among the meager haul of 34 surviving stanzas of his verse can be found this defiant statement:

Nevertheless I am, God be praised,

A member of a noble house,

Through my brethren the Banu Sasan,

The influential and bold ones…

When the roads become difficult for both

The night travelers and the soldiery,

on

the alert against their enemies

,

The Bedouins and the Kurds

,

We sail forward along that way, without

The need of sword or even of scabbard,

And the person who fears his foes seeks

Refuge by means of us, in his terror.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2013/07/islams-medieval-underworld/

The joke of it is that having 'supported' the anti Assad 'rebels', the Brits are now mouthing about intervention to stop the very people they've been supporting (who now suddenly turn into Al Qaeda bogey men) from getting access to (I think) nuclear weaponry. Even Sun readers are seeing through that one!

So you support a group....... and then go to war to stop that very group later on.......what the f.......?????

Well at least you figured that out at least. But unfortunately a lot of Sikhs still see this as a war 'to help muslims' rather than seeing the tactics and political implications. The way in which the British Government has used Jihadis to their own ends shouldnt need explaining.

And I don't get you. You read Sikh history in Bhangu's second book, he essentially says the same thing happened in Panjab with all manner of adventurous youngsters wanting in on the Khalsa in the 1700s.

But women though? From London of all places?

I don't get what you are seeing. She married and is supporting her husband? They think the existing leader of the country is a tosser and want to oust him. This doesn't effect Sikhs one bit.

She's from Britian, we're from here too. She lived a normal life in London before she went all Four Lions. I know some Sikhs are so one dimensional they can only handle one issue at a time but this isnt a 'oh look its the sulleh again' type thread. If I had come across an interesting piece on anyone else I would have posted that too. You know how our lot like to put women on a pedestal. This shows different attitudes amongst others, doesnt that interest you? It's not as if learning about this is forcing something else out of your brain.

As for the wider implications of the Syria conflict, it will affect Sikhs eventually. If Syria falls, the Shia Line from Iran to Lebanon is broken. That means a war against Iran is on the cards, which would affect the Sikhs living there if what happened to Sikh people and places in Iraq and Afghanistan is anything to go by. With a fundamentalist Syria, you can expect another war in the Caucasus. Would that mean that the mujis from Afghanistan go there when NATO leaves? Or would they increase attacks in Kashmir to try and get more of the limelight? What would be the implications for Sikhs in East Punjab now they are having problems with muslim immigrants, just as ordinary Syrians had problems with refugees from the War on Terror before it all kicked off in their country? Also, here we have Muji Marys training with Kalashnikovs whilst our prats brag about their swords and what great Nihangs they would have been if it was the 17th century. Now do you get what I am getting at?

Eh? What you disagreeing about now old man?

I said it would be shocking to our own lot who have a rather simplified image of what women are like and who wouldnt expect this. I'm not surprised, some sulliah are just as bent as their menfolk. What annoyed me was the brazen attitude of the jihadni and how she was living in some family's house whilst going on about what's best for Syria. What does that stupid littel girl know about the people there or their history, culture, wants and needs? How can they rail against what the West or Israel does, when the jihadis act like an occupying force themselves? Dont tell me you're not shocked by the lack of decency of these supposedly holy people.

And what's going down the toilet now? We've been floating around down here so long it's hard to tell if we're getting flushed or we'll pop back up again. But the implications of this are obvious. People in Britain are being supported in Jihad by the British government. If they didnt want her to go, they would have stopped her. Our lot love to think that Britain is our eternal ally in the face of Jihad, when in reality the Brits love breeding these useful idiots for use in their foreign policy when they cant send their own people. Also, the large muslim immigration to East Punjab along with the possibility of refugees from Pakistan if the Taliban decide to create problems after 2014 will lead to a similar situation. One of the reasons Syria has such a violent insurgency is due to their open door policy to refugees from warzones in the Middle East over the last 10 years. They thought they were letting in fellow muslims, turns out the Sunnis werent so into a universal Muslim brotherhood.

"Maryam" is a British woman who has moved to Syria to join the anti-Assad rebels. She can use a Kalashnikov and would like to fight, but has had to settle for the life of a jihadi's wife.

She's a tall young woman, dressed in a hijab, complete with face veil, firing a gun. She speaks with a London accent, and calls herself "Maryam".

It's not her real name, but her commitment to the jihad is real enough: "These are our brothers and sisters and they need our help."

Maryam shoots a Kalashnikov for the camera, and then fires off a revolver. She'd like to fight, to become what she calls a martyr. But she's not a frontline fighter. She's a fighter's wife, with weapons for her own protection.

The latest pictures from Syria reveal a new insight into the lives of British citizens who've travelled to join the campaign inside rebel-held territory in the country's north.

Exclusively obtained by Channel 4 News, they were filmed by Bilal Abdul Kareem, an American Muslim convert who's living among western jihadi fighters and their families inside Syria, documenting their lives.

He says he wants to show the reality of the lives of these foreign jihadis.

Maryam's marriage to her fighter husband, Abu Bakr, was arranged by his mother three months ago. She didn't meet him until after they were married.

He's Swedish, and born a Muslim. She's British, and converted to Islam four years ago.

'Sacrifice'

"I couldn't find anyone in the UK who was willing to sacrifice their life in this world for the life in the hereafter... I prayed, and Allah ruled that I came here to marry Abu Bakr."

Until her recent departure from the UK for Syria she lived what she describes as an okay life.

When she was younger she liked to watch football on TV. She studied psychology and sociology at college, and says compared to others on her road she was rich, although by British standards she was poor.

She says her parents know she's travelled to the war-torn country, but they don't know the detail of what she's doing.

Hers is a choice she wants other Muslims to make: "You need to wake up and stop being scared of death... we know that there's heaven and hell. At the end of the day, Allah's going to question you. Instead of sitting down and focusing on your families or your study, you just need to wake up because the time is ticking."

She and her husband are raising a child together, and are now expecting another. They appear at ease together on camera, talking over who should do the cooking, squabbling over who has the better Kalashnikov.

But they agree on the big picture. Their long-term objective is what they see as the liberation of Syria, followed by the establishment of an Islamic caliphate.

Abu Bakr fights with the Sunni jihadi militia known as Katiba al Muhajireen - the battalion of migrants - an active fighting force.

They fight alongside bigger Islamic groups such as Ahrar al-Sham and the al-Qaeda affiliated Jabhat al-Nusra. He's a full-time fighter. He lists the victories his militia has won.

Atrocities

But this is Syria. There are not only victories but defeats, and serious atrocities.

President Assad's forces are fighting here to take back rebel-held territory from groups they regard as terrorists. By night, from the building where the family live, they can hear the government forces' heavy weapons and see the flash of firing on the horizon.

Maryam says the sound of the fight doesn't bother her. Instead, she says it makes her feel like "victory is near. God willing my son will join them. Maybe I'll join them. They are honoured to be there, unlike me. I'm in the house, but, at least I'm here".

Another British family is here as well. They live downstairs.

"Aisha" (not her real name) says she only arrived a month ago with her husband, who's joined the same band of foreign fighters as his neighbour. They have a daughter.

Aisha says she was a little unhappy at first, but now she and her daughter are settling in: "I think children adapt very quickly, so she’s been okay.

"The first few days, she was saying she wants to go back home. She wants to go to England. But now she's okay. She loves being outdoors, being able to play."

The two women have the use of a car, and drive to the supermarket along the rough dirt roads. Noting Maryam's hair-raising speed, someone describes her as driving like a "mujahid" or holy warrior.

She wears motorcycle gloves for modesty, and describes the gloves her sisters wear as too feminine.

At the supermarket, they buy nappies, bread, a bucket, the kind of thing you'd normally buy on a shopping trip.

British food

Maryam admits she misses British food, especially cakes, junk food, and her mother's cooking.

She says her parents know she's in Syria, although they're unaware of the full detail of her situation, and that her father has offered to send money. Her husband earns roughly $150 a month.

Maryam says she has no plans to return to the UK, ever, even if her new husband is killed in battle.

"I will stay here because I didn't come here for him. I wouldn't like to go back to the UK. I'll stay here, raise my children, focus on the Arabic language to communicate with the Syrian people.

"As long as I have a car, I'll be able to go shopping and do as I'm doing now."

http://www.channel4.com/news/syria-rebels-jihad-british-foreign-assad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkdUQ5FZAOg&feature=youtu.be

As shocking as this may be to some, I find it unsurprising. What I did find unbelievable was the sense of entitlement. She's not even Syrian but she was squatting in some poor family's house and pretending like it was for the good of the people of Syria. Unbelievable. But that's fundamentalists for you.

One day we will be fighting these kinds of people in East Punjab itself.

I think the above would have more likely been the case with the new born's maternal grandma. Now she did like a bit of dark meat..........

As well as gingers, journalists and pretty much anyone else. Though not any Singhs as far as I know. But seeing how she was treated by her inlaws and husband, it's no surprise.

Speaking of slags, did you see that Singh on that clip? You can actually see the moment after the black boy comment where he realises he wont get to say something. He looks like someone blew up the Golden Temple again. Though he did try to grab the gori presenter as she walked around the side but she was having none of it. Typical Singh lol. He was probably going to say something stupid anyway. I wonder if that foreigner got a beating from Sardar Ji for insulting Middleton Memsahib.

1 Well the monarchy do wield power. The Queen has had the ear of government for 60 years and has instructed them on what to do in certain situations like the Abu Qatada extradition. Last year some newspapers asled what will happen when Charles III gets the throne and whether he will enact things that reflect his attitudes to homeopathy or be a bit more serious. I'm surprised you didnt hear about this.

2 Well this is kind of the point. Britain is in a recession. People need their minds taken off it. They also need a reason to be more confident and spend more money. The Jubilee, followed by the Olympics, followed by a baby and God knows what next year is all about keeping Britain on the map, keep tourists and investors coming in to spend their money, using their money to create industries and work schemes to get the plebs back on the factory floor or picking in the fields. It's clear what's going on here. Hell, even the BBC are making shows for India that sell the idea of buying an education here. It's all about somthing for nothing with these people. Buy their education, buy their tat, buy an overpriced house and then get kicked out by the UKBA. Indians, especially our lot, are so thick they'll fall for it. I can see them turning up and bobbing their heads all the way thinking how great they are and how they are part of something so great when they are just getting fleeced. Fools and their money are easily parted.

3 A lot of Americans are just retarded. They celebrate they are independant but love the English monarchy as they cry about despots in other parts of the world. It's like the lunatic has taken control of the asylum. Anyway, would it be too far to assume the author is Jewish? If that is the case, no wonder the concept of anglo-cousins that ties the likes of Oz, NZ, Canuckistan and Yankeestan to the UK is a bit weird to him. To them it's perfectly reasonable. Of course some Sikhs think they are part of this big family too - or at least we like to kid ourselves that we are. If I could be bothered I would type out an analogy to what happened to our own Imperial Family in the late 19th century. But I'm sure some of you can figure it for yourselves.

4 If he lives in London, no wonder he cant find them. London is meant to be a multicultural mecca for businessmen and tourists all over the world to come and spend money. Outside the cities it feels like living in an episode of a rebooted Blackadder. Go to the agricultaral colleges or manor schools, tea rooms, rural restaurants, local white collar firms, NGO offices etc and it's packed to the rafters with toffs. The idea that these people all died or fled during the New Labour era were vastly exaggerated or optimistic. As for George Osbourne, it's been fashionable in high up circles to dress up and 'go local' for laughs for centuries now. It also makes him look like a man of the people, one in the eye to the old Left and that scatterbrained Milliband.

5 Oi! You cant say that about our Goreh Sahib! They are the most fairest, loving people on the planet! They give charity and aid to places they wrecked! They are only racist when they think you are out of earshot! They believe in values like freedom and democracy and justice when it suits them! They dress up their own wants as being good for you and part of Sarbat da Phalla but if you disagree they will guilt trip you into feeling like the dirty nignog you are! They put Singhs on tv occassionally! They looked after the Koh-i-Noor! They want to do great things for Sikhs it's just we dont ........ ah sod it, even I cant be this sarcastic.

Nice article, how did you get onto their site?

Who said?

I'm not familiar with stories of West Punjabi Police murdering thousands of people since 1947 on the same level as what happened in East Punjab.

Well, someone has too. If people like me didn’t, our people would never have a clue about how goray created/stimulated aspects of the

modern jatt identity that causes so much havoc with Sikh unity today. This wasbased on a mixture of white supremacist revisionism and colonial pragmatism as jatts farmed the land that was making whites profit and helped them in their ‘imperial adventures’ via the military.

In any case my allusion was to the point that the modern jatt-paks you talked about are most likely getting jumped up about their jatt identity in emulation of their Sikh counterparts – it wouldn’t surprise me if jatt song and dance and movies played a part in it too (as well as direct contact).

Well that's all well and good, but you're a little late to the party. If you had talked about this 120 years ago it might have been useful, but it's all been done and gone. The British got the taxes, won their wars and are sitting pretty. Of course there are still some retards who look on it like it was a great time and others who wish it never ended but they are in a minority. What is still a much bigger problem is the attitudes and mentality that the British instilled in us that are detrimental to who we are now. And that is not exclusive to Jatts. It's the fundamentalist Sikhs that have been born out of our own colonisation that are the biggest problems. The stupid stories and ideologies they spin to suit their own needs and how they force this on others and stupid people back home in EP is the modern version of the problem you talk about. Just because you keep bumping into Jatts who live in their city ghettoes and have managed to keep the same mentality their grandparents had when they left India in the 1940s does not mean it's the same everywhere. Most of these people dont even have meaningful contact with white people. It's not Jatts that the Brits think are useful idiots. It's all Sikhs.

As for what modern PakJatts are like, you may be right. But it still points to the fact that the problem of police brutality lies at Sikhs' feet rather than anything to do with caste.

The difference is that Islam (or whatever you want to call their overarching belief system in Pak) outright condemns and ridicules the behaviours

associated with Sikh-jattness because it recognises its destructiveness in social terms. Also whites didn’t fill their heads up with as much shit as they

did to apnay. You meet many of today's jatt sikh frequently feeling a stronger allegiance to say whites (in England) than they do to other Sikhs of different castes. That stupidity has been smacked out of sullay jatts and they know that their loyalty lies with their other Muslim brothers.

It seems you want to see what you want to see. The muslim jatts got more out of British rule than the Sikhs ever did. They liked each other more than either liked us. It's the idea of British rule that encourage the muslims to side with the British in the Second Anglo Sikh war whilst Sikhs were sitting around waiting for miracles. Afterwards the British encouraged the same shite in them as they did in us. The difference is that the sulleh had institutions that could not be compromised or were not targetted by the Brits. Sikh religous institutions were compromised on a widespread level. All corners of the old Sikh Empire were sucked in and reorganised to suit the British. All this reflects badly on Sikhs and their stupidity. The usual copouts of caste or culture just dont cut it anymore. Its the way Sikhs are brought up religously that leads to so many problems. Islam has the Arabs offering guidance to their satellites. SIkhs are just so retarded that the still run after the goreh in desperation for them to accept us or tell us how to act or gain their approval. That's what's really going on.

As for the not liking other Sikhs thing, that applies to Jatts Sikhs as well. Plenty of Sikh Jatts dont like other Sikh Jatts and see themselves as white or at least believe that goreh are always right. In the fundamentalist shithole that is SikhSangat look at this: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72266-chelsea-footballer-john-terrys-dad-edward-terry-racially-attacked-sikh-guy-amarjit-talafair/

LIke I said, the white worship goes far deeper than the Jatts. It's a Sikh problem. The idea that Islam somehow stamped this out is laughable, they had a completely different mindset that they kept rather than sell themselves out and turn into whores like Sikhs have.

Like I said, you are acting oblivious to historical ties between the jatt tongue and the anglo arse. They know EXACTLY who and what they

are dealing with. FFS, they’ve been studying and writing about us on a very deep level for 200 odd years. You would know this too if you read that pseudo-science 'anthropological' shite you mentioned earlier.

Let's be realistic about this. If all the jatts left, they would go after the biggest ramgarhia and ravidassia Gurdwaras.

Like I said before they have a long term relationship that they keep trying to manipulate. The funny thing is that ironically both jatts

and anglos are living in the past, and aren’t as ‘great’ as they like to imagine themselves. We know from Falcon’s regimental advice book that

Ramgarhias couldn’t easily be recruited in the late 1800s imperial army because the salary was too low for them. After WW1 goray seemed to have quickly disbanded their Ravidassi regiments for whatever reasons.

Yet it was the Ramgarhias and other Sikh castes who kept the IAF and RAF in the air in the early 20th century.

Come now Dally, dont tell me you dont know why the chamar regiments were disbanded. It wasnt after WW1 in some kind of slap in the face, it was during the Great Depression when many regiments in India were disbanded. As soon as WW2 started and the British asked for the chamar Sikhs to fight, they lept at the chance to run into the trenches and jungles to kill foreigners they didnt know and who were not interested in hurting Sikhs. Like rabid dogs let off the leash to hunt wild animals, dragging the corpse back to the lord of the manor just to hear the acceptance of praise and maybe a treat. Just like the Jatts.

In fact, many Chamars are proud of their history in the British Indian Army. Some believe that the seperation of Jatts and Chamars into their own Pioneer battalions was a recognition of Chamar Sikh fighting prowess. In reality it was the fact that the British regimental model placed light, regular and heavy troops seperately as opposed to the Napoleonic model that the Punjab had were light infantry/hunters/skirmishers were used as attachments to line regiments and grenadier battalions. Of course if you tell them this, you're just a dumb jatt who cant handle how much the British respected them and are full of jealousy. Since when did reality ever factor into how Sikhs perceive the world and their place in it?

The modern Sikh Light Infantry has had it's name dragged through the mud thanks to what some soldiers have done to civilians in places like Eastern India, HImalyas and Sri Lanka. Just like some other Sikh regiments.

It’s not even unhinged jatt psychos, it could as easily be a token jatt puppets (as in the UK) where they get wheeled out as required. The

characteristic is deep in the jatt psyche, I mean look at Republicans in the US, they have that Bobby Jindal and that Nikki Haley on a string. The former

fudu even became a Christian – wtf! Plain and simple jatts produce a lot of people like this – and this tendency needs to

be confronted and attacked from within the jatt community itself – but first people need to face up to the problem and we aren’t even getting to that point because

the truth totally contradicts the self-image and people don’t want to face truth. That's not to say that jatts haven’t produced some braves arse warriors

and iconic leaders, but what’s the point of bigging that up when hordes of fudu jatts turn around and undo all their good work and sacrifices pretty much straight away. It’s like 2 steps forwards, and then 5 steps back.

Booby Jindal is an utter moron. That's his caste.

As for Nikki Haley, take a look at her family. Her parents were prominent members of the Sikh community, that included running the local Gurdwara with Nikki supposedly doing the account books. Whilst the Gurdwara ran into the ground financially, even with the generosity of the average Sikh who attended, Nikki's parents' company became a multimillion success story............Being the way she is it was no surprise that Nikki gravitated towards Government jobs. Maybe it was due to her relative intelligence or her 'easiness' which could have allowed smoother intergration into the gora society. Her sister wasnt so smart so she just became one of these new age of aquarius mystic yogi types. Even she still did it to make money, though she isnt quite good at that. If you need it spelling out, religous SIkh families and our interpretation of Sikhi combined with our bizarre understanding of host or alien cultures and societies creates these weird bubbles of collective problems. It doesnt matter if they are Jatt or not, they are still obsessed with money, status, getting accepted, saying what they think outsiders want to hear, coming up with fantasy eutopias that are just around the corner, screwing over their own kind to make them feel better about themselves, maintaining an image of the community towards others that is akin to tunnel vision in order to see the car crashes around them etc. The euphoric reaction amongst ordinary Sikhs to Nikki Haley's election victory shows that she aint the only one with issues.

The idea that some jatt genes or culture produced great warriors or iconic leaders is a bit stupid and flies in the face of everything I've been saying. There is no evidence of any genetic research or historical analysis to find out what went into the average Punjabi. I wouldnt recommend any genetic research either as the information in the wrong hands would be a disaster. As for rigourous historical analysis, it will never happen as Sikhs are so flippant and incredulous to knowledge. On an anecdotal level I've had Sikhs tell me that Punjabis are ethnically related to Cossacks - the only reason being that they like horses too and the old farts liked watching Taras Bulba back in the 60s. On SikhSangat one idiot compared his lactose intolerance to the supposed lack of dairy products in Greek shops and implied shared intolerance to lactose. Unfortunately I dont have an unbanned account as I would have pointed out to him that the Ancient Greeks and modern Greeks are not ethnically similar due to numerous barbarian invasions since the fall of the Roman Empire. Therefore if he is related to modern day greeks he cant claim a shared ancestor going back to the days of Socrates, Aristotle or Plato. But even if I had explained that to him, knowing what Sikhs are like they wouldnt have believed it. Sikhs just want to believe what they want to believe. I know for a fact that some villages in Doaba became very mixed during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's era by immigrants who wanted to be Punjabi, lock stock and barrel, not like the modern immigrants to Badal's Punjab. Forget all this nonsense about Scythians and Greeks just to suit some people's egos or further the case with certain people to accept or love us. If I had to put a bet on it, I would say we Punjabi Sikhs are a mix of the inhabitants of the first Indus Civilization and the Ancient Egyptian colonists. But that's just cos I want to claim the Pyramids. jk.

If you were to talk in the realm of personal make up affecting how people are it could maybe include personality at a stretch, rather than genetics or culture. It doesnt matter if a Jatt is a hillbilly or a Rhett Butler type, what makes one hate abuse of authority and the other slavishly obsequious to any and every tantrum from an outside voice is something that can be explained by religion and its interpretation on a historical, social and intellectual level.

A retarded sense of history paired with a unbelievably naive view of the present is something Sikhs are famous for. Celebrating our ancestors stopping the abduction of Brahmin women by Afghan raiders whilst living in countries were Native women are raped by the descendants of European raiders. Or turning a blind eye to the abduction of Sikh girls. Talking about how Mughals chopped up Sikh children and forced their mothers to wear their body parts as necklaces whilst praising the historic systems/culture/'civilization' of a people who turned up in places like Tasmania and Australia and decapitated men in front of their wives before tying the head onto a trophy necklace for themselves as well as then wearing it as they raped the widow. Talking about our Baggi spirit, how we stood out and did the right thing, whilst going round and sucking up to the very people who engineered our present anguish. I could go on, but I'm either preaching to the converted or getting the backs up of our notoriously

retarded and close minded older generation.

Again a consequence of the pervasive jatt psyche that thinks it knows it all and doesn't do 'reflection'. This needs to be changed. Just because the type of jatt stupidity under discussion hurts both jatts and nonjatts, doesn’t mean that we should ignore the fact that it stems from jatts. They are becoming the enemy within - and I mean people who are physically willing to murder and suppress other Sikhs at ground level - not in some higher arse licking position that doesn't get its hands dirty but the actual 'doers' themselves. I put it straight to you - most Sikhs from the other communities don't have this tendency and if you find any doing teh stuff under discussion they'd be quite exceptional - whereas hordes of Sikh jatts get their hands dirty in stuff like this.

If you say so. The stories from ex-3HOers kind of indicates otherwise. The 'Animal Farm' style accounts of what went on inside their dera just show modern Sikhi and how we practice it just doesnt cut it anymore. No wonder so many converts slag off Punjabi history and Maharaja Ranjit Singh. For all their holiness and talk of practicing real Sikhi they have failed to match the achievements of a pint sized horny drunkard bisexual Punjabi Emperor. No matter how many times the coconuts or Yogi Bhajan's ghost tells them they are special, how they are our saviours, how we will rule the world together - the goreh Sikhs cant get over their own inherent problems. And this is all before what came out in Gursant Singh's book. Goreh are far better at washing their laundry in private. Plenty of them celebrated the outcome of the Zimmerman trial as well as have beliefs that would make many historical Sikhs throw up. I long to see the day when they reach a critical mass in numbers and began to speak the same bigotted words we hear from the whites who arent Sikh, except these will come out of mouths with wrapped by turbans and beards. Bets are open that us simple brown folk will run a mile or pretend we didnt hear it before burying our heads in the sand. Just in case you dont believe me and want to hear it from a Gora Sahib, I dug this out for you: http://www.rickross.com/reference/3ho/3ho72.html

As for Yogi Bhajan, he was a rare breed. The genuinely intelligent Kulak. You spend so much time railing against Jatts who dont have a field to crap in, but here comes along a genuinely smart swarmy scheming landowner and you dont seem too bothered. Of course YB did come out with some good stuff. But it was all for an agenda and to suit his own cult of personality. All the home truths he shared were like the news pieces on Russia Today - based on truth but done in a deliberate manner for an audience who are used to being captive. It sounds like the truth to them, but only because they get fed so much crap by those above them. Another analogy would be British political parties. They can argue about righteousness and who is better but they both screw up when in charge.

Sikhi frequently doesn't seem to civilise jatts as much as other ways of life it seems.

Maybe it's because the idiots form a majority in our thing?

Would you care to explain this analogy to a simple non-farming, non-land owning Jatt like me?

It sounds like you are saying the Arab/Brits are using Sunni Islam/Sikhi to mollycoddle/control Muslim Jatts/Sikh Jatts and turn us into a bunch of weirdos with inferiority complexes/chips on our shoulders?

I think it is a psychological consequence of supremacist thinking. Once you think you are super special, your own needs are considered above all else, and other lives of little consequence or importance in relation to your needs. Then you can go around killing and raping without any conscience. You see it everywhere an elevated sense of superiority or self worth manifests itself in a deep way. Same way nazis felt no way killing jew children, Anglos killing and raping slaves in the Caribbean and US. Overseers on plantations more or equally cruel than the white men towards their own. Even today with how fundo sullay will treat vulnerable kaffir girls who stay their way. Or high up western government bods who think nothing of thousands dying (on both sides) over bullshit lies.

Our people's issue is simply a side effect of current jatt sikh culture in my opinion and the cure is having a more humble self - conception - which is exactly what our Gurus stressed!

This needs to be taught to jatts as right now all they seem to do is fill each others (and their own) heads with pure horse shit about how great they are.

I think you'll find that this supremacist thinking may have started with the jatts a long time ago but it is now synonymous with Sikhs of any hue or caste.

Anyway this goes far deeper than the idea of feeling better than others. It is the fundamental way in we see everything and how we interact with the world that is causing such utter ineffectiveness. I personally believe one of the reason moneh/certain castes/jathas get so much grief from religous fundamentalists is to create tiers in Sikh society which ultimately reduce accountability. In our Guru's time or in the times of the Khalsa Raj, the inclusion of Punjabi Sikhs of any background forced a lot of those who would get up to stupid things to think twice as they knew if they were caught they would be pulled up on it- there were just too many people around to say something and flag issues. In today's holier than thou atmosphere it is virtually impossible to hold anyone accountable as they just blame someone else, say they practice true Sikhi or cry that those accusing them arent perfect either. This just allows people to get up to and away with anything.

A lot of SIkhs have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to their own people too. The idea that their own people are villainous and deserving of any punishment whilst outsiders are beyond reproach and always right leads to the kind of abuses from Sikhs in authority towards Sikhs with no power. The attitude many Sikhs have towards East Punjab adds to this too. They go on about their perception in the west and what we've built for ourselves here. Part of that is projecting that back home is backwards as that's what we think the goreh want to hear, where as we are special for having got out. In reality the only difference is money. For all our wealth in the West, we still act like a bunch of pindus, what's our excuse?

It's also about the failure to practice Sikhi in non-religous matters. I'm not on about shoving your beard and turban in everyone's face but the fact that Sikhs no longer have the ability to stay true to themselves. The inability for Sikhs to create or practice political beliefs that are based on our own historical terms is telling of our mentality. The gora sikhs are better at this but that's because they want to use Sikhi as a vehicle for their own vegan and anglocentric objectives. If SIkhs practiced political Sikhi they wouldnt have allowed such idiots in the Punjab police to keep their jobs.

On a miltary level, why are so many Sikhs so easily picked off by the police? I cant imagine our ancestors falling for that. They would have been killing the police and disposing of their bodies rather than the other way round.

Finally, a lot of this has nothing to do with caste but with Sikhs issues with authority. Our slavish acceptance of anything said by those in respectable positions with no attempt to understand their subjectivity shows how far we have come from the old attitudes. In the West, everytime a Gurdwara committee has a problem they just call the police. They have the image that the police are this special force of men and women who are so pious and enforcers of justice that they will come rushing in to save the old sardars from the criminal brown faced masses who dont like them in their own Gurdwara. In reality the police are just people in uniforms. That's all it is - a costume with authority. When they take it off they are just like any other random on the street. They can be on the make, they can be stupid, they can be lazy just as much as anyone else. Of course if you live in Southall and have never known a gora for any real length of time, you can be forgiven for believing that the Crown only allows the best to join the police and scrutinises and tests any recruit to weed out all those we would consider undesirable. But you would still be an idealistic retard. This applies to everything. A teacher is just a person, with their opinions and own attitudes - not everything they say is true. A doctor is just a person, yet SIkhs walk into a hospital and accept anything they give them - including injections they have no idea of what they are. They have no ideas of the attitudes of doctors or how they have targets and budgets or just sometimes want to placate you.

In summary, Sikhs need to grow up and stop expecting that people still want to run after us and wipe our asses. The Brits dont care about the extrajudicial killings and they never will. They will however take your money for a mediocre education and manufactured tat. All the talk of freedom and justice is just something to feel good about and lord over others. The Americans know and dont really care unless they want to twist India's arm. No one cares. If SIkhs want to sort this out or stop it happening again they need to do it themselves. Stop this walking around like a retarded child wondering if Jimmy Saville/Mahtama Gandhi/Propher Mohammed's bed is more comfortable than the others. Stop allowing people to abuse you. Dont abuse others.

http://youtu.be/lxG5BbUdPB8

It does take Sikhi to know about Qaumi Ekta, Qaums faida etc. If these people were bhought up the good way they wouldn't be attacking Gurdwaras or simply too greedy kuttey.

Anyways, none of the killer of Sikhs was amritdhari, HSD.

If it that was the case then all the Kharkoo outfilts would have been made up of Amritdharis to counter infiltration. But a lot of the sellouts/moles were Amritdhari. Whether it was through choice or to furhter their cover, I dont know. But it wasnt that simple or black or white. You cant brazenly say none were amritdhari when the majority havent been brought to justice.

As for people being brought up in the right way, it doesnt explain what happened in the 80s. There were retired Sikh army officers who would come to the UK and say they were Khalistani. They would say Khalistan is just round the corner and collect supporters names and addresses along with donations. On finishing their tour they would go back to India, hand over the names and addresses to RAW and keep the money. They knew what they were doing, they still did it.

I don't understand why sikhs find it surprising when sikhs kill each other.Just look at other religions , muslims have been killing each other from 1000 years, Can't even count christians declare war on christian countries. Hindu' s killing each other probably from time of mahabharat.The fact is religion do have some influence but overall human nature remains the same .Sikhs are no different from other humans.

Sikh on Sikh violence in the past was along the lines of low level criminality or inter Misl violence akin to the fighting between Shires in English history or domains/prefectures in Shogunate Japan or the divided states of any country in their history. Nothing major there. But since 1849 the Punjab CID/Police have gone and carried out crimes that would be described as statistically abnormal. Not everyone's police force has the blood of hundreds of thousands on its hands. It shouldnt be considered normal or acceptable.

I wonder if they got out?

http://youtu.be/3btLEtz0Lyg

I wonder where those pak freshies learned that from? hmmmm.......

You say its 'innocuous', maybe in their community right now sure. But in ours, that crap has caused so much dirt that it is unbelievable. From abusing 'low caste' girls to exclusions from wells, crematoriums in villages and what not. Notice how people from the guilty community like to play down their shenanigans as 'innocuous'.

And I don't eat chicken shop 'halal' for the record.

If you are trying to insinuate that I brought it up or encouraged them then you couldnt be further from the truth. Seeing as my grandparents were victims of Partition I'm not overly keen on the idea of shared 'clans' with people who caused us so much harm. I also dont read those stupid British 'anthropoligical' books on caste like you do or try and find common cause with people of the same caste wherever they may be lol.

Again, I was calling muslim punjabi jatts innocuous when they go on about caste in their life. They dont seem bothered about anyone else's caste and dont use it as a crutch for a superiority complex or persecute others. I was asking why there is a difference. Read what I posted above again.

You're talking out of your arse mate. Other communities committees don't

have any lesser linguistic skills. The truth is that goray have a long

term relationship with jats from the colonial period which they like to

try and keep alive. Plus (as I alluded to earlier), the establishment

know - you want docile 'hench men' types these are the people to go to.

You want to wheel some 'effnik' out in the media to publically

demonstrate how multiculturalism is working - wheel the placid turbans

wallahs out. They love the attention and don't ask for much in return.

Do you think the recruiters target us, or that there are go betweens from our own community who run after them and desperately try and drag them in to keep us relevant? You think that the average recruiting officer knows the difference between Sikh Gurdwaras? Of course not, they have their hands held by our lot. If the Police and Army were serious about recruiting Sikhs do you honestly think Ramgarhias and Ravidassias would say no? Do you know any Gurdwaras that have turned them away?

Also a lot depends on the person who joins. Not every Sikh who joins the police or army is a jatt nutter. But as long as Sikhs give a warped idea to their own lot about what power and responsibility entails, most of those in the Army and Police will be these unhinged stormtroopers.

And jats are the most guilty for shamelessly doing the above. Unless

people start facing up to it, they have no chance at all of changing it.

It's way past getting defensive about it.

Jats just go from being one set of people's attack dogs to another. The mentality behind that is what needs to be attacked.

I'm not being defensive. Facing up to a lot of abuses by those in power in Gurdwaras here or back home in the police is something we should do. But what you need to know is that most of the victims of this are what you would call 'Jatts' and that these people lack the sense or worldliness to comprehend being shafted.

Is this what you see. Or are you being dramatical about it? How many

goray turn up regularly at your local Gurdwaray? I've seen some of what

you mention but not at the scale you are implying. Where do you live?

Actually none of what you say is surprising.

The pervy 'religous' young adults and the arrogant/hypocritical amritdharis are what I've been told about by people who saw those things in a West London Gurdwara. The rest I've seen myself at the local Singh Sabha apart from the old Singh marrying old goris thing. That happens to about half a dozen Singhs that I know of in the local town. In one case it led to a pretty shitty situation for the Sikh family that I wont go into on here as people will guess who I'm on about. I'll PM you if you really want to know. The Singh Sabha one looks like a neo-Dickensian workhouse on some days.

Because I know them from the area. Why, are you surprised?

No, not really, I dont put women on a pedestal especially if I dont know them.

I'm talking about educated farm girls here - and not just ugly ones. lol

So let me get this right, they are well educated but they go out with real chavs? OK mate, you must live in the retarded part of the UK or something. I only know freshies and real guttersnipes who do that kind of thing and that's because they are desperate or thick. Maybe you're just so ugly that they'd prefer a drug addict with no teeth? Or maybe it's because they're Jattis so they want a Baldrick to understand them on their level, not a genius like yourself?

Joking aside, it's not a major thing to get worked up about.

It's like apna society doesn't even have basic humanity. You could add

to your list more minor but telling 'everyday' acts like snidey comments

being casually thrown about regarding people's family members, wealth,

'sharabi kewabiness', caste, womenfolk....the list goes on. Ultimately

apnay people are often not generally nice people to be around

(especially after a drink when the inner arsehole really get outs!) -

no wonder we often can't stand each other.

Another thing is how Sikhs like to say what they think non-sikh people want to here. Being racist, slagging off their family and culture, giving gory details of things that happened to people they know etc. For some non-sikhs this a major turn off. I know that for some non-anglos it has made them readdress their own attitudes and mentality to the world as well as making apprehensive of knowing Sikhs. But Sikhs dont seem to get it. It's why starting a job or going anywhere and coming across another Sikh can be a major headache. They think you'll blow open the bullshit walls they've built around themselves. I couldnt care less, but some of our own lot get that wild look in their eyes lol. On a macro level, other people see through this and dont want to babysit us. It's one of the reasons why East Punjab hasnt attracted the kind of investment or relationships with countries who could do it some good. Instead they end up working with the same 'historical abusers'. Look at the result - Ludhiana has the highest level of pollution in any city in the world even though the industrialists and govt there spent a lot of money on foreign 'advisory' firms and 'specialists'. These people were happy to take the money but not do the work to a reasonable standard, but Sikhs still love them. You can guess which country these advisors came from. They wont lose any sleep how messed up Ludhiana is. And before you say what about China, bare in mind that if you divide the economic output

of the city by the level of pollution measured in units, you get a far far lower figure compared to the Chinese. Sikhs can chalk up another admin cut up due to our own stupidity and laissez faire attitude to our own people paired with a unwavering devotion to those who just want to abuse us. It even happens in the UK itself - the bill for the new Southall Gurdwara ran into many millions due to an massive fee paid to an architecture firm. A firm who employ a gora who is married to the daughter of a Southall Gurdwara committee member...

The schadenfreude that exists in intersikh relationships is ridiculous too. When it comes to outsiders they act completely in the opposite way. The older generation are a like a domineering matriarch/patriarch who makes sure the samosas are piled higher than a Nihang's turban when guests are around, but belittles and retards their own children's life experiences. The chalakness that SIkhs are so proud to display isnt even that sly when you compare us to some others. FFS going on about how chalak you are is a clear sign you arent chalak. All these SIkhs who spend their lives screwing over other SIkhs spend a lot of time having to look over their shoulder as their actions usually come back to haunt them. If they were truly chalak they would know that short termism and selfishness isnt going pay dividends. It is also leads to a warped attitude attitude to people around them. Sikhs are always 'bad', therefore non-Sikhs are 'good'. This mentality has led to a lot of trouble due to exposure and naivete and we seem to be keen on carrying it on. At the end of the day there are bad and good people in every race. Sometimes the bad ones exist in high enough numbers to be statistically significant - a sign of an issue in the community/nation/race.

The thing is that doesnt entirely explain the way in which these police convinced themselves to murder children/women/innocent men. None of the victims were nasty to the police and the policemen were family

men. What can cause them to have that ability to butcher on a whim and display anger like turning on a tap against people that cannot on any level be described as guilty or threatening? Where is this all coming from? Who is filling their heads with this?

Also, some Sikhs are much nicer after they've had a drink. The bottle can be a better friend that most Sikhs lol! jk

You NEED to acknowledge that SOME of the above stems from this pervasive

'jat sardar' mentality that feels unquestionable privilege and a

haughty disdain and disregard for anything but one's own welfare and

objectives. They are usually the ones doing the raping and killing.

On

a deeper level we have to ask just what is wrong with Sikh society that

it can't even successfully impart universally accepted norms of

civilised behaviour to its members?

I'm not denying it's Jatts committing these crimes. But the victims are Jatts too and in the traditional monkey-see-monkey-do these actions filter down to poor Jatts and non-Jatts too. Why has that 'Jatt Sardar' mentality become commonplace in the last 150 years? Why is it still so virulent when Sikhs are removed from other Jatts and Sikh population centres? You say this is a Jatt issue, but the vast majority of the Fauj-i-Qilajat were from 'Jatt' backgrounds back in the day and they had an outstanding reputation for being fair, keeping order and not disrespecting locals or stealing when sent away from home. Why is it that families that produced kids who could maintain the high standards of the Fauj-i-Qilajat suddenly started producing people who have been killing and hurting ordinary Sikhs since 1849? It may have peaked in the 80s, but it happened before and still happens now. This shows it is far more embedded than more 'cosmetic' problems.

Is it a pattern repeated throughout British ex-colonies? I was reading an autobiography by a famous Jamaican who travelled throughout Europe in the 1920s. One thing he mentioned is how he had a friend who was a black boxer in England that had married a white English woman. Everywhere he went he was attacked by English blokes who saw him with here and thought they could take him on. He usually had to knock them out and leg it. The author contrasted this with his native Jamaica where British police and soldiers raped women and even killed them regularly. It wasnt uncommon to come across bodies of women that had been attacked and killed in the forests there he said. Today most Jamaicans look upon the British rule as one of peace and prosperity. Is a similar thing stalking the Sikh conscience?

But the British have gone anyway. Yet this still happens. Why is it still going on? Just because someone gives orders for it to carry on, doesnt mean they have to be followed. 'I was just following orders' doesnt cut it. It's almost as if the perpetrators want to do this. Like it proves something. Like they are living up to something or achieving something. Like they get some kicks out of the exploitation.

I also wouldnt agree that there are universally accepted standards of civilised behaviour. The atrocities from both sides in the War on Terror, the communal violence in many parts of the world and brutality show that it's quite common. The thing is that for Sikhs we were a people who by all measures should be dead as a nation. We should have gone the way of all the other people who crossed big empires like the Mughals and Afghans. But we won even though we were the little guy and we had a pretty fair, communal and relatively equal system for the times after. A lot of people when they talk of freedom, equality and human rights only want that to apply to themselves or use it as a stick to beat others they dont like. Our standards arent quite the same as everyone elses though there are exceptions. But the Khalsa has never relied on anyone else to tell it what to do to be successful or the right thing. I am sure many Afghans/Mughals/Brits spoke about freedom and how great their systems were whilst trying to fight us. It doesnt take a genius or a massive understanding of Sikhi to see through it all. Why have some of us gone and just taken a massive dump on that heritage? Why are those standards warped and twisted to justify the kind of crimes we slag others off for like the Germans or Russians? I think some Sikhs have their heads in the clouds here or dont understand mathematics - it's not a couple of people or randomised or explained as a minority of bad apples - there are tens of thousands dead, possibly hundreds of thousands.