HSD1

That's because those ones know their rightful place unlike ours. I know Paki jatts , most of them aren't proud to be jatts, in fact they hide it and call themselves Rajputs or Gujjars, anything but.

If Islam hadn't knocked that grinning, prancing idiocy out of them, they'd probably doing the same dumb 5hite our ones are.

I'm not on about some jihadi wannabe inbreds that you chitchat with down the local chicken shop. I'm on about off the boat freshies. They're always on about Jatt clans this, Jatt clans that and it's all rather innocuous. Why is it that Sikhs have turned caste into such a battlefield and a crutch to feel good about themselves but our Pakistani brethren dont? Have you ever borrowed anything off one of these freshies? They refuse to take it back and do that typically Punjabi cultural thing of making sure you keep it. A rather cute game. Sikhs on the other hand, wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire. You're not my caste/creed/jatha/nationality etc! they would say. Why is it that Sikhs dont feel like they are getting ahead unless someone else is getting screwed over? What is wrong with Sikhs? Why are Jatts from across the border not as psychotic?

Again, who exactly do they target for recruitment? More poignantly,who lays out the carpet for the pigs and 'Johnny Bulldog' in their supposed sanctums?

Last time I went to the Singh Sabha Gurdwara I saw a few jattis walking in with their chavvy white husbands like it was no biggy.

They target Sikhs for employment. You know why. There are people in these ghettoes who have ties to the army and recruiters and can act as a go between for both sides. If your average Ramgarhia or Ravidassia committee could speak good English and have contact points with the recruiters they would happily do this too.

But I will give it to you that Sikhs do lay out the red carpet for this. The committee probably quite like the thought of other Sikh's kids going off and dying whilst their own kids rinse the Gurdwara funds. But hasnt that been the case since 1849?

As for what you saw in a Singh Sabha, let's be honest, if that's the worst you have seen then you dont go that often. Amritdharis moaning about eating food made by moneh, before they go off to use a toilet after an English crackhead was in there. The younger amritdharis touching each other up. Old SInghs marrying old goris who came there for the free food and couldnt believe their luck coming acrossing these widowers with their factory pensions and savings from decades of hardwork. Once the Singh pops his clogs, she gets the money, his house, his land and do you think she will give anything to her stepchildren? Hell no! She makes sure her middle aged 'hardworking' 'salt of the earth' kids get everything instead. Assorted weirdos coming to Gurdwaras now. Sitting in front of the Guru and having to see chavvy jackals sitting there with their eyes bulging at the golak, waiting for someone to put some money in that doesnt go through the slit. Being told by the oldboys not to scare away the goreh, then having to watch him wail and cry when someone tells him that someone has pinched his shoes. Walking into the langar hall and seeing a depressed soulless freshy with a thousand yard stare who looks like he cant understand where it all went wrong. Next to him is a moti chav sitting there trying to use her roti and sabji like a fajita, moaning that 'you guys should invent better plates to eat this kind of stuff!'. Her boyfriends stare just getting wider and more depressed each time she opens her mouth with another pearl of wisdom. Girls going out clubbing and being well known slags - then turning up the next day with her chuni in the Gurdwara to spend a few hours and going 'Waheguru, Waheguru, Waheguru!'

Anyway how did you know they were jattis? If people are going to go on about fair skin, how great Britain is even if they've never been abroad and all the other stupid things Sikhs talk about without thinking of the effect it might have. Our lot marrying chavs is quite common if they are freshies. Our lot are told that Britain is the golden country and that they have to do anything to stay here. The pressure back home on them is ridiculous. They come here and no matter how bad it is, they think its great. Even if they end up on a sink estate living out a real life version of Shameless. If the girls were born here, then there is that other topic where we discussed this, this topic probably isnt the place.

Raised in Sikh homes? Thats what im saying, there is no qaumi ekta, there is no teaching (brainwashing ), many of the children growing up in Sikh households are not taught about Sikhi, whether in Punjab or abroad. Abroad the parents are busy working and want the children to be anglicised, be like the high class goreh (then they wonder why their kids end up marrying goreh) and in Punjab generally people are not knowledgable in Sikhi (I questioned a few old amritdhari babeh in the pinds and their Sikhi Gyan was limited to Banis and the local Sant). Even now I am shocked to see the amount of ignorance that Sikhs have in Punjab about Sikhi, wheter moneh or keshdharis. If you take such people and put them in police, and tell them 'these Khalistanis are Paki agents, kill them' ofcourse they will do it? And then there are the ones who simply ignore Sikhi for their personal gains.

But on the other side, how many police officers did not quit their job and joined kharkoos? Gen Labh Singh was an ex police officer, so were a few shaheeds in Blue Star and so was Simranjit Singh Mann.

I did explain in my previous post how it comes that these sellouts are raised in Sikh homes. Responsible is the lack of kattarvaad. Shunning moneh, not allowing non-amritdharis have anand karaj, not wear red this that is not kattarta, kattarta is believing only Sikhi is the right path, having basic knowledge about Gurmat, loving your faith (whether your monah or not I really do not care that much). We need to feed our kids with things such as: we should never hesitate before sacrificing ourselves, our luxury for our panth, we should respect our fellow Sikhs, we should support the Qaum, we are one. Alas it might never happen.

On a side note, Sajjan Kumars wife is Sikh and Jagdish Tytler is a Kapoor Bhappa with Sikh mother. I was disgusted when I first learnt this years ago.

But my brothers, Sikhi is not something your born into, its something you earn. Don't forget that the Guru Angad Dev Ji and Guru Amar Das Ji were chosen above the sons of the Gurus. Merit comes by actions not birth, these people are not Sikh and the cause is ignorance and greed. We, as a qaum, and parents are responsible to a big extent. When will I see a good committed Sikh as a minister? or Police officer? We should have people in every field, learn from the Jews, the situation would be much different in many areas of Punjab if the local SHOs, SSPs were into Sikhi (but many have Sikh appearences but follow Saadhs and torture Gursikhs, yes they still exist but these things are not reported).

I guess if you were talking about something else than what you say would explain it all. But it just sounds like the usual fundamentalist cop out.

How much Sikhi does it take for a grown man in the police to know that driving down a road and seeing a woman walking home isnt an excuse to jump out and rape her. Then drag her over to a well and chuck her in, then go and book her relatives for her rape and murder. Beat her family up, shake them down for money throw a couple in jail. All in a day's work. Then go down the Gurdwara and have a prayer and donate a bit of money.

How committed to Sikhi do you need to be to know that taking a boy off a field for no reason is wrong? Taking him to a safehouse, keeping him for a few days with hourly beatings and any other torture that the Sikh cop feels up to. When the boy, many werent even teenagers let alone men, is broken and clearly not a Khalistani why does the Sikh policeman still beat and torture him? How can he justify it? Is this His hukam? Is this the boy's karma of a past life? Are his parents at fault and bad Sikhs? When the bewildered child who doesnt know why he is there and what he has done to bring this upon him looks up at the Sardar and asks for mercy for whatever it is that may have made this fellow SIkh hate him or bring this upon him, why is the Sikh with the power not capable of an ounce of mercy? How much Sikhi does it take for the Sikh cop to not ask him 'do your parents have hidden money or are they well off?' When he responds 'of course they dont', how religous does the Sikh cop have to be so that he doesnt think 'that's too bad', before bludgeoning the lad to death (quick deaths are no fun for the average Sikh cop) and disposing of his body in a cremation that none of his family will know about.

Sadly our answer to all of life's problems is just more religion. The fact that many of these Sikh cops were amritdharis, had no family history of being in the police and yet were willing to be police and do all sorts. How much Sikhi does it take to know that taking an innocent's life is wrong?

To avoid a long arsed discussion where Punjabi culture or caste get blamed for everything let me get this back on track. Why is that Sikhs go on about how the faith gives equality to women and Sikhs historically fought to prevent the use of women as war booty, yet Sikhs who know this are willing to use rape not just against 'insurgents' but any woman they like the look of. Why is it that religous Sikhs do that weird thing where they tell you their opinion as if it is fact and sit there with a cheshire cat smile on their face and that look in their eyes - a look that I havent seen in any other race apart from Anglo toffs when they want something off you or when they are trying to get you do something that probably benefits them far more? If you disagree with that type of person, heaven help you. Why is it that Sikhs commit such crimes to poor people who they think stand in their way or are against the 'sarbat da phalla' of their masters? I know religous Sikhs in the UK who work for the UKBA and they are some of the most villainous people you would ever meet. They know plenty about their religion. Sikhs in the 80s knew plenty about Sikhi. Even if they didnt, on a human level they shouldnt have done what they did. There are probably retired Gestapo officers with cleaner records. Why is there a transplanted dark heart still pumping poison through our nation's body? Why is the sickness not fought on a conscience level?

So if killing 83 people doesnt get you promoted, what will? This is ridiculous, yet unsurprising.

Boy!

I knew that they knocked a few people off during the militancy phase.......but this one guy recording 83!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's worse than most psycho serial killers.

'In Sikh Punjab, police murder you

In Khalistan, you murder police!'

Okay you asked so you get.

Going by history and current events, give your average hogi peasant a uniform and some money and status and there is a good chance that the jerk will run around killing people like a mindless animal for you.

Be you British, Hindu or another hogi.

How we supposed to go forward with these types of pussoos filling the ranks.

Eh? Jatts in Pakistan dont murder their own people. Also if jatts listened to other jatts, they wouldnt murder innocent jatts. If anything this is typical Sikh idiots thinking doing their typical thing. 'Oh me so mighty, me so righteous, everyone in my way must die!' Been happening since 1849, wont end as long as people can blame things like Punjabi culture or god knows what other lame excuse their fundamentalist brains come up with.

Many officers are known to have killed over 200 so 83 is not much. Some of these cops (such as Gobind Ram) were eliminated by Kharkoos.

It wasn't Sikh on Sikh violence, what a stupid thing to say. It was sellouts being used by the govt to kill Sikhs. Alot of Hindu and Muslim Punjab Police officers were involved too, it was simply the state vs Sikhs.

But these SIkhs were raised in SIkh homes. They have turbans and beards ffs! Plenty of Kharkoos who were moneh wouldnt be good enough for people like you. So how do you explain that these sellouts are raised in Sikh homes? What is that is turning them away and who is responsible?

One thing I would like to add is that this issue isnt just about the 1980s. My Granddad told me that when he ended up in EP after Partition the police used to shake people down for gold and in the 50s/60s would kill people by chucking them in wells or just beating them up. They never had this problem in West Punjab. EP was always considered a more 'backwards' part of the Punjab, the people there reflect that. Unfortunately its spread to the West as well. Just look at the UKBA. Give a Sikh a uniform and some authority and you got yourself a stormtrooper that would make your average Waffen SS soldier scared. Hardinge really did break the Khalsa.

I grew up in the UK and what you say is pretty much what a lot of people from working class backgrounds go through. But is it really Punjabi culture at fault here? If you were to go to East Punjab today, a lot of the people there are nothing like the puritanical image our elders hold up as a guide to Punjabi culture. In fact anything you see there would make you question everything you were told about Sikhs and Punjabis as a nation growing up. 'Higher caste' Sikhs still are very Punjabi in the UK but they dont seem to have the same hangups or fears the majority of older Sikhs here do. Probably because they are more successful and dont have the same fear of being assimilated as us 'rednecks'. Of course this is just anecdotal, I dont know where you're from or if you can relate. Why certain elders are more highly strung about this stuff than others, I dont know.

The way I see it is that our parents and elders when faced with living in another country will do pretty much anything to get their kids to act in a certain way. They'll bring religion, culture, family, honour etc into it - anything and everything to get their own way. The fact that it seems hypocritical or stupid is lost on them, especially as their tunnel vision doesnt let them see it any other way. You say Punjabi culture is very patriarchal, which some families can be, but a lot of families arent so strict or practice that 'all under one roof' thing some Asian families do. In fact a lot of honour killings in the UK are carried out on the orders of a Sikh matriarch. Not something that Punjabi culture has ever had a history of. Sikh girls in London go out drinking in groups and go clubbing nowadays etc, just like the boys tend to. Not all girls do it, but then again not all boys are hard drinking nutters or get free rides off their parents. The older generation used to have this way of thinking that boys with non-Sikh girlfriends could at least raise their kids as Sikhs. Girls on the other hand, wouldnt. In a lot of cases it seems they were right. But times and attitudes change.

Mixed marriages are more common and many Sikhs see their kids marrying middle class goreh (regardless of whether it's the son or daughter) as a step up and a sign of acceptance in the UK. Some of these are very religous, or what would be described as Punjabi. They arent bothered if their grandkids arent going to grow up Sikhs, they have sacrificed that for integration. In reality, religion is just another thing to be try and be good at so they have the bragging rights, a bit like how you describe your aunt. Most other people dont care, but for these zealots they have to go that extra mile to seem perfect or at least a cut above the rest. Nothing to do with Sikhi or Punjab but more just people's own personalities.

A lot of our own lot get turned off their religion due to other factors like religous infighting and the fact they will never be good enough for some jathas/groups. Plenty remain proud Punjabis without caring about caste, this is how a lot of kids from Punjabi xtian converts have been brought back in to our wider family. On the other hand, plenty of religous Sikhs who brag about how westernised they are and how removed they are from Punjab still care about caste when it comes to day to day things. Being Punjabi isnt all that bad either, we can be a good bunch if we put the effort in, especially compared to some other races. If you feel stifled, the best thing is to talk it out with those who you feel are getting on your case. If you think they will listen.

As for the whole 'no hindu, no muslim' and equality thing, I think that's up for interpretation. It's not about revering religion, it's about seeing the human behind the religion or skin colour/political persuarsion. That means the same standards for all and making them practice what they preach if they consider their background is so great. If we were to revere other religions just for the sake of equality we would be in pretty dark territory fairly quickly. A lot of people from any background use religion as a smokescreen for all kinds of crimes like paedophilia and bigotry. But that's my take on it, plenty of other Sikhs see all religions as the same, even if they know nothing of them.

To summarise my comment, I would say: 'Dont let the b*st*rds grind you down'. People are fickle and use all sorts of stuff to justify the way they are. Culture is what you make it.

The thing is if I log out it goes back to normal. Has something happened to my account?

It looks like this still. I tried adding a screenshot but I cant see if it uploaded.

Problems are still persisting, what is going on?

It seems its only SikhAwareness that is like this. Sikhsangat is fine. All the other sites I go on seem fine too. It's like someone's removed the Javascript for the board and I'm seeing a stripped down version.

Well there is no background on mine (it's white not blue now) and I cant quote anyone either. Am I on moderation?

Is this page displaying weird for anyone?

Here it is again. Jats have serious economic issues related to agriculture and they use it as an excuse to hate Hindus.

I only see jats playing stupid, low politics in this way. Jats hating Hindus but arselicking goray is like the the English hating other Europeans but crawling up America's arse with disastrous consequences.

Fact is that India is coming up big time, it makes sense to be part of it. But all that said, I don't see any other Sikhs, be they 'cabinet makers' or any others crawling en mass up Hindu arses like you see with the peasantry - i mean they even let whites from the military bowl around their Gurdwaras like they were recruiting grounds which says it all........talk about selling your soul.

I guess underlying all this is the sad fact that Sikh political 'maneuvers' are a joke.

They need a complete overhaul, not least the rural economy pivoted ones.

Sikh political thought has been a joke for two centuries now. For a whole load of reasons that we can discuss another time.

But Chatanga's point is mired in the constant referencing to backsides. It's not helping him or you. What I think he's trying to say is that replacing Britannia with Americana like we have in the West or Hindustania like they have at home isnt going to help. We're just moving in with another foster parent and their fortunes are our own. Nice when things are going well, but when it sinks, we hit the bottom first and cushion their fall like we did when Britain fell apart. The recession and America's reversals and withdrawals have already had an effect. We can see European countries reverting to their pre-WW2 mentalities- to the obvious detriment of Sikhs in formerly safe countries. India may be on the way up now but it's growth is to be expected now that the British are no longer there to cream it all off. It's hardly the runaway success of China. Many nonSikh Indians love the Brits still and the colonial infrastructure will creak on until someone kicks the door in. Then there is the other side of being in these relationships - cultural contamination. Racism and dodgy converts/deras in the West or dodgy deras/mixed religion and Indian on Sikh violence in India.

Neither are better options. The growth of Punjab and the diasopara isnt about being a part of India's overhyped and probably ineffective modernisation. It's about achieving a position of strength that Sikhs havent enjoyed since the 1840s and that our Gurus and so many of our ancestors fought for. Whether India or the West disappear in a black hole or learn to shit gold bricks, who cares if we have sorted ourselves out? This is the point of unity. Not deciding who's ass tastes nicer.

dally: " I don't see any other Sikhs, be they 'cabinet makers' or any others crawling en mass up Hindu arses like you see with the peasantry - i mean they even let whites from the military bowl around their Gurdwaras like they were recruiting grounds which says it all........talk about selling your soul. "

Why would you see it? You are smart and sophisticated. A right brain-box. How could someone as intelligent as you see it? You dont do it yourself, so automatically neither do any of our charpoy-leg making brothers. Big up yourself.

The whites bowl around the Gurdwaras for good reason, that Sikhs proved themselves as good soldiers, time and time again.

They do it because our elders love commodifying the youth.

I think there are two motives that are at play here. The first is aimed at us. Many of the toffs want us to adopt English history pre-1849 as our own - having your own narrative isnt on. Some Goreh love feeling superior and trying to make anything different look out of place. If you do try to emulate them that just fuels their self-righteousness and arrogance and makes them feel their opinions are vindicated and encourages them enough to become even more outlandish and demand more off you. If you dont and try to fight it, you're an outsider/loner/troublemaker/idiot/extremist and have an agenda/want attention/want money/should go home. You cant win either way.

The second is to pull the wool over their own proletariat's eyes. Some Sikhs use their history as a crutch or prostitute it to make them feel good or get acceptance etc. Poor white kids learning this stuff are going to feel less bad and get an inflated sense of selfworth, from supposed past achievements, that is divorced from reality. When someone higher up in the class system tells them to do some menial/rural work when they leave school they can tolerate the hardships better. After all it is how things were done in the past and why change a class system that produced such a wonderful empire and a past they all want to live in? That's what happens when you give your people a fairytale and untruthful history. We might even see the re-emergence of some Victorian-esque workhouses, filled with grinning Anglos happy to work, spend their money on beer and then piss it all away against a wall.

As for our own lot, I cant wait to see what new low depths we will sink to. I can imagine some Sikhs going over this syllabus and breathing a sigh of relief as long as there is mention of Sikhs in the World Wars. Others will thank their lucky stars that the English came to Punjab and colonised it so they could live here today. Hopefully it will be something new, the last two examples arent as funny to see as they used to be.

History and GCSE History were taught badly when I was at school, it would take a mammoth effort to make it worse. I am really beginning to think that the toffs are trying to dumb down the kids so they can get them back on the fields in a generation.

History in this country is always treated with rose tinted spectacles. The Anglo-Saxon extermination of the Native Britons and Romans is not mentioned. Neither is the fact that most people in England thought the Spanish Armada would win - when the English ships returned after the storm had destroyed the Spanish ships Queen Liz 1 decided to have the army lock all the sailors up on their ships and keep them there until they died or agreed to forfeit any pay they had accrued.

It got even worse after 1815. Our teacher jumped straight from the defeat of Napoleon to the Indian Mutiny. Pretty much the only event we learned about that involved Empire and we all knew it was because the British had rewritten history to make the Indians look like monsters. Then it was straight onto 1914 were we learned about the evil Germans and how they were always up to something and thank god Britannia was on watch otherwise we might all have houses full of working appliances and Mercedes in the driveways.

GCSE History was just a massive slagging off of the 'evils' of communism and fascism. Most of it boiled down to famines and lack of democracy. The exact things the British/French/Americans were forcing on their colonial subjects. Then we learnt how Britain single handedly beat Hitler. No mention of how Mein Kampf praises the British Empire, no mention of Hitler being an Anglophile, no mention of the Red Army who took on 80% of every tank/plane/gun produced by Germany. At one point they gloat about their empire containing a quarter of the world, next they say they were alone and dont mention the human shields from their colonies. We're told about Japanese brutality in Burmese POW camps. Ironically there is no mention of the camps that Britain had in Burma for the previous century. You're told about how Germany built railways in Poland for genocide and war, but at the same time Sikhs should be grateful for the railways built in Punjab by the British.

So on and so forth. Half the time the teachers tried rushing through it hoping no one would ask questions and just accept everything being thrown at them.

I hope I am around in 20 years time to see what the first generation to have gone through Gove's system look like. I'm giggling already. Having said that the new history syllabus looks like the kind of stuff our coconuts believe anyway.

So I read and asked around and there is no mention of the Ethiopia incident. Either someone made it up or people are getting a bit carried away. Whilst researching, it turns out that Yogi Bhajan told his followers that Guru Nanak went to Sri Lanka on the back of a blue whale. It's such a shame that Sikhs cant see past all the bs and just focus on what Guru Nanak did rather than where he went or how he got there.

My tongue don't gravitate towards anyones arse peasant. Can you say the same about your people?

You got a long history of being white boys attack dogs. Face it.

why is it "my" as an individual being repping the whole of the cabinet-making brothers, but when it comes to jats its "people" as in a collective. You been looking at the jats too much to see whats happening in your own wood-house.

I dont know about jats being attack dogs for anyone, but where would the cabinet-makers fit into this? As lapdogs?

Instead of going into defensive mode you should seriously try and learn important lessons from history so that your peeps don't get used and abused and make the rest of the Sikhs look like easily manipulatable dimwits. Especially in today's climate.

This is a very important subject to contemplate, even if it does stretch that northern monkey brain to its limit.

The lesson is simple in my opinion: stay aloof from outsider politics if it will drag apnay into unnecessary conflicts. We know goray have a long history of dragging Panjabi pendus into their conflicts. Other Sikhs generally seem to know to give the 'white man's burden' a wide berth, its only the peasants who keep falling for it.

It might hurt, but you know it's true.No one else is being whitey's lapdogs/attack dogs because they have enough brains to keep aloof from Anglo-politics or at least not openly support it.

Truth is that we have a problem in the uk with pak's grooming dumb/vulnerable apneean. That is our issue. we've already seen whitey governments and media successively ignore it and given that we now know that they have their own issues with paedos in their own premier institutions that they hid for a long time - we can read between the lines.

Other wider global issues with West versus Islam, oil resource control, democracy, foolish military occupations abroad and all that bollocks that they keep spinning is a different issue which any fool will tell you is only going to cause trouble at ground level in England.

English (and their allies) are fueling Islamic fundamentalism not fighting it.

On the plus side, on a street level the current sullah focus on goray/ the west has led to some decrease in Sikh-pak conflicts. Maybe we get some benefit from them being at each others throats?

Now is a time to consolidate ourselves independently - not go into bumlick mode farmer. Spread the word.

im not going into defensive mode, im going into the fact that you feel that your tongue doesnt gravitate towards anyones's arse, that the whole of the table-maker brotherhood is thus inclined, but in your highly-educated, intellectually, empowered mind(synonmous with southerner) for some reason, that all jats are arse-lickers of the english, whereas there is absolutely nothing to suggest that this is true.

if on the other hand we were to look at the majority of a people arse-licking, i think the table-makers would make a very good example.

I am going to spread the word, to you. The biggest arse-lickers in the Sikhs to the hindus and india, are the table-makers.

If you get jats arse-licking the edl, on the scale that you get the table-makers arse-licking hindu arse, then you, and the rest of the UK will know about it.

Or is this just a way of getting back? Knowing that the table-makers are arse-licking some seriously messed up criminals in the modern age, which affects our community now, but trying to disguise it with the actions of jats 150 odd years ago.

Instead, just focus on what you rightly say, that as SIKHS, we should not get involved where we dont need to. And forget the rest of the crap you try and give us about jats and stuff. you are going nowhere with it.

The fact that the Sikh/Punjabi Light Infantry were made of the so called lower castes as well as tharkans forming the bulk of the sappers and mechanics/railway workers is telling of who the real lapdogs were - the Sikhs. Ironically the vast majority of freedom fighters were Sikhs from Jatt backgrounds too. Strange no? Maybe this is because Jatts form the bulk of Sikhs so therefore are the ones doing everything good or bad in far larger numbers. If this is really a genetic thing (which would make you both casteists) then it doesnt say much for our future or all the converts who should also display their ethnic characteristics over the top of Sikhi...

We always have this stupid discussion. If you want to talk about collaboration and who licked who's arse the most, lets have it out. But lets study it a bit more than just pointing fingers at each other and accusing each other of liking the taste of shit more.

Don't say that for God;s sake! Don't mention the english or thousands of jat tongues may instinctively gravitate towards their white arses........ : o

Bach ke!!

Maybe it'll be like one of those science fiction stories where a robot faced with two conflicting choices overloads their brain and explodes. To be honest for a lot of these old fogeys, their brains went a long time ago.

We can talk about this amongst ourselves here on this forum, but the dickheads who will be jumping around trying to join x or y group wont be listening to anything but their dumb, shortsighted logics. lol

I am not expecting you draw up lists of all 400,000 Sikhs here and to go round their houses and argue with them until they agree with you. Tell your family, tell your friends, let those who want to get involved be stupid.

For real, if you think the EDL give a damn about 'Justice for 84' or can even do something about it if they could, or you want to join the UAF to do that typical face saving to preserve our 'status' in the wider community then just bugger off and catch whatever your new bed partners carry.

What ???

You seem to sound just as racist as any other real Brit !!

No, I don't think it was anything like this back in 70's/80's, for that matter 50's and 60's as well - since that's when my family first came !

Yeah, I've long suspected Dal is really a gorah. Man is hella racist towards us brown folk lol.

BTW which town/s did your family live in the UK if you dont mind me asking?

Why or how do the UAF come across as so righteous?

Sikhs have already talked to them and basically been told that they arent interested in things like Bhullar, Rajaona or Justice for 84 as those are 'sectarian issues'. The reasoning for supporting them is that if we arent with them then we are Nazi loving nobodies. Not exactly endearing is it. You'd have to have your eyes glued shut not to see the haughtiness and champagne socialism the Left has, especially towards Sikhs. Where was the mighty Left when the grooming was going on in the last decade? Oh wait, sulleh votes count more in certain areas. Throwing our weight en masse behind UAF will end badly as they wont give us anything. Neither will the EDL. Best not to get involved. It is a sectarian english issue after all. .

Sounds like something the Jews would do. Smartening up their kids and at the same time giving them a good dose of community. As Borat would say 'Very Nice!'.

This isnt about being insular, but just because eating langar is for all doesnt mean everything else is. I guess the teacher would have the discretion to see troublemakers and get them turfed out. If you've seen some of the monitoring of sulleh and the internet honey traps, you would know what I mean, they love this kind of stuff - Chinese people dont tend to be like that. It also depends on the area the Gurdwara/Hall is in.

One idea from the Jews I liked was their having GCSE 'booster classes' in synagogues. That would give young kids a good reason to attend Gurdwaras if we could get it going.

As long as you get qualified volunteers and some other resources that shouldnt be a problem. Having some old lady just telling everyone to read their books wont cut it. You also have to think about who will be let into these classes. Sulleh would love to come along and chirps with girls or be stupid to drag everyone to their level in their version of classroom jihad. It may be controversial but if these lessons were only open to ethnic Sikhs and mixed race kids it would go a long way to nurturing that inclusive group feeling. I doubt the Jews let it anyone. But I can see the bleeding hearts getting emotional about this.

I think those other guys were probably on their way to the other protest. Probably why they had their heads covered.

I know that we arent going to be the EDL lapdogs for obvious reasons, but the UAF can be just as bad. Just because they are left wing doesnt mean they are fighting our corner. As the EDL were squaring off against the UAF, the UAF went behind the Sikh protest and threw bottles at the EDL. They knew what they were doing and were trying to get Sikhs caught in the middle. The left in this country has as many closet racists as the right and many more who have no love of Sikhs. We have to be wary of the typical guilt tripping, shaming and quasi-equality they come out with to get us on side before ditching us after we've outlived our usefulness.

I had to go to my pindh a couple of months ago to visit a relative. There were a couple there. Plenty in Phagwara too. Wasnt really expecting that many.

Nah, I tried goat milk once and it was disgusting so I decided to just stick to blue top. People have recommended buffalo milk to me as well as other ones like almond milk but I thought that's just what people like as they're Italian or our lot who believe in that rubbish about Asians not being suited to dairy products. I never had any problems or health issues with normal milk so it's not something I've looked into too deeply.

Seeing as China has modernised and isnt so receptive of foreigners as they used to be it's no surprise these lot have now set their eyes on India. You wouldnt believe the number of goreh there are in Punjab.

The book on Hari Singh Nalwa by Vanit Nalwa is very good. As is the First Anglo-Sikh War book by Amarpal S Sidhu. War, Culture and Society in Early Modern South Asia, 1740-1849 by Kaushik Roy is supposed to be good as well, but I havent read that one.

If you live near an Italian food shop or Southern European store in London then you might find buffalo milk there, maybe even cheaper than the UK produced stuff.

I think that woman is an Indian teacher at the american school.

As well as the dangers of foreign influence and intervention there is the other side of the coin too - homegrown fundamentalism. Stuck between those two forces, it's no wonder Afghanistan is a mess. If we ever had our own country there would be no guarantee we could ever keep foreigners and fundamentalists in check.