Maya

The moghuls????

Every religion has a history of abusing or abuse meted out to them. How long are you going to hold a grudge and judge people by the actions of their ancestors??

Errr, because they knew they were supported by the Nazis, Hitler declared war shortly after Pearl Harbour! You need to learn your WWII history dude!

AFTER pearl harbour?????

Was that the other second world war then???

Errr, we won the war buddy, without us, there would be no England left!

Ahh...don't you just love the American version of the war....

Did you win in vietnam too?

The girl wasn't forced to do anything. She seems rather silly and immature and unfortunately paid a high price for her mistakes. But they were self-inflicted.

Girls may be confused if, as was claimed, Muslim guys wear karah and change their names but you'd think the penny would drop when they were asking them to convert!?!

I don't know any sikh girls that have "fallen" for it and the views about muslims and sikh girls being expressed are a little stereotypical.

A serious question......

What about them people who get like lets say their eyebrows or something PERMANENTLY electrolicized or lasered (whichever) and basically the hair doesn't grow in too much nemore. Technically, if they take amrit and do the whole 9 yards with the kes etc, does that still technically make em amritdhari since they did get the "unattractive" hair problem fixed? Basically, I'm sure everyone is pretty much agree to an answer of NO, but more input would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Well, that was before they took amrit, like, so it doesn't really matter. I shouldn't think God spends an awful lot of time worrying about it too much...

Come on...facial hair on women? Its all very well saying you wouldn't care if a girl had facial hair but its all lies and you know it!!!!!

And as for over-plucked eyebrows? Do you not like the permanently surprised expression...surely its a talking point if nothing else...every family has one :wink:

Depends who and how many of them there are really.

I tend to never back down unless i'm severly outnumbered..possibly not the best course of action but i'm as stubborn as hell and won't have anyone talking to me like that. :twisted:

Impressive!!!! I admire/appriciate These Thoughts and agree with them.

10-20 days back when i posted on first page in this thread.,. i didn't think that this discussion will lead in these directions. Today, after so many days, today when i see this topic of 7 pages, i am realizing what is the different between Discussing and Arguing. Nonetheless, Your efforts/post were classic.

Thankyou for your kind words. I stand by everything I said.

Maya, if you want to say you find my views "worrying", you are free to say it. But don't expect everyone else to worry with you. I'm certainly not worried.

I guess you wouldn't be seeing as you appear to live in a fantasy world of your own making. What happened? Did a kaala scare you once or something?? Get over it man!

The "hatred" I apparently have is not important. What's important is the issue here - is there a genuine problem with kaalay causing trouble or can you honestly tell me it's just scaremongering. Even if it is, can you tell me it's morally right for black guys to go out with Punjabi girls? Can you tell me that in conscience?

Who are you to define morals and whats right or wrong??

I can honestly tell you, yes, that you are scare-mongering. There is no "genuine problem" with blacks causing trouble. Where are your facts? Your statistics? Hearsay and a personal gripe mean nothing.

It seems to me that you're more concerned that punjabi girls want to go out with black guy...and not you possibly? Whatever. You do not have the moral right to change that and the fact that you're blinkered with "hatred" makes your views invalid and unbalanced.

What rubbish.

I live in Birmingham and have done for over 30 years and its not the "kaalay" you have to worry about. Its aapne that act stupid and egg each other on in gangs or do nothing when a girls being targetted for abuse.

I've been on the recieiving end of abuse in recent years since 9/11 and its gangs of white or asian youths that are the ones to worry about. I would cross the road to avoid them rather than a gang of "Kaalay".

You're viewpoint (and thats all it is, as you've offered no facts that can be verified) is racist, extrememly bigoted and more worryingly scare-mongering tactics that you should think twice about in future.

Yes money is good init

If you say so.

Maya actually doesn't mean money at all..would appear you got it wrong. :twisted:

wow thats hard one... Maya means dillusion..

Maya doesnt only mean money but simply it means anything that takes you away from god/vaheguroo/parmeswar/allah ..sowwie i know its hurting but thats true .. but no worries.. even maya is creation of the creator(Vaheguroo)...

Red Alert everyone.. Maya is here... jk

I was always told that Maya had a good meaning!!! :cry:

Hi, Could anyone tell me what Maya means?

Is it right to let our parents decide for us and live with the 95% chance that the marriage will be one of compromise and no likes matching up...and how come ppl still bring in the caste factor (contrary to what everyone thinks... read about my friend above..)

Caste and discriminating is still VERY important to many many Sikhs...I am of suposedly "high" caste....i see and hear it on a daily basis from the people around me. They revel in being of high caste. Its merely a form of control...like the class system here.

First, who said love doesnt exist.

If you read back that was exactly what was offered as an argument by one poster.

The person who doenst beleive in one religion and doesnt stick with one prophet teachings has hard time gettin to god. Note: I said hard time not impossible. For example- Your aim is to get up the mountain you cant take both directions. You take one. Same rule applies here you stick with one.

There are many routes up that mountain. Not one and there are routes that don't use the "crutch" of religion. Religion is a "route" to God. Not the only way to believe in him.

In order to meet god you need to have picture of an prophet or an saint in your mind while contemplating. I dont know any other ways. Please enlighten me if you think there is any other way?? :?

Says who? Who are you or any religion to judge the way to commune with God??? All you have is your intepretation...not divine knowledge. Other religions make the same claims...you can't all be right...you can't all be wrong. Therefore there must be more than one route to God.

are you sure you love because you are afraid of wrath in god??? For example- what is the whole concept of existence in god?? Is it god judges everyone?? God gives and takes.. thats why you love god...or you actually love because god created you, god put jot(light) in you and gave you chance to be human and merge with him.

I don't believe in a "Biblical" God that indulges in punishment or "wrath" so no i'm not afraid of the wrath of God!!! I love God because yes, he created me and hes a divine force...and he helps those who helps themselves. I believe that he answers your prayers via appeals from those who love you.

Yes i agree. But more important even sikhism agrees. There is no such thing as sin in sikhism.

Again...Sin was a word that was thrown up other posters in the discussion.

Maya, whats your curiousity??

Is it know that in sikhi love towards opposite sex is allowed before marriage??

Or is it know that in sikhi why love towards god is primary and others is secondary??

Please let me know... 8)

I'm curious how it can be preached that love doesn't exist and that if it does it should be secondary to loving your religion....not God. There is a very distinct difference there...and THAT is what is being said here.

I love God. I also love my family and the man I am going to marry. Loving any one of those individuals doesn't mean that there isn't love left over to love God with or that it takes away from the way i love God!

You can fall in love at any time...before you marry...after you marry..when you have your children...its not a sin and it isn't frowned upon by God.

hold the phone :shock: isnt this a site based upon sikhism??? i must be in the wrong forum then

Right...

So how have I come off the subject if I'm talking about Sikhi pray tell??

i agree wiv the steel bangle

maya what are these flaws in gurus/sikhi that u are talkin about.....as guru gobind singh says......the 10 gurus were one.....the wise man understands this...the fool does not.......(bachittar natak)

Making me the fool by definition?

Every religion has flaws and its a foolish man that believes otherwise. :wink:

Its interesting to see you've become annoyed and a touch aggressive rather than discuss this in a more logical and less personally offended manner!!

I think you'll find that it wasn't me that moved the discussion on from the subject of love. You pointed out it wasn't accepted in Sikhi and it went on in a religious bent from then on in.

If you want to discuss love then lets discuss it...if you want to talk about the Gurus and what they preached then I can do that too.

I thought the mormons said have lots of wives (aren't they the people in Utah).

doesn anyone like Utah Saints by the way?

Wives..and concubines...and what about the people who live in Kibbutzes?

And no...

these are not the views of man.. they are the teachings by our gurus..passed to them from waheguru...they were more then just "men" :roll:

They were men first and foremost. Just like any messiahs from any other religion.

if ur born into a family - it doesnt automatically make you a follower of the faith - im sure u agree with me there.... guru nanak dev ji didnt follow any of the hindu rituals and practises... he renounced the wearing of the janao... so how could be a hindu???... he founded the sikh religion - setting out its practises and followed them.. automatically making them a sikh

Yes, I agree completely that being born a sikh doesn't make you a sikh.

He became a Sikh...he set down the rules...so why don't people follow them? Why did subsequent Guru's and followers not follow the example of the first Guru...the one that actually CREATED sikhism? Because they were men with, understandably, but nonetheless.... very human flaws.

dont believe in the caste system...

You are one person. What about every Sikh that does? Are they entitled to call themselves Sikh?

no one said you couldnt get to god... this is about following the sikh faith... not picking and mixing the rules which suit u and which dont suit u... i dont think me u or anyone else has the right to make up our own rules... we accept our faith how it is.. and follow it to its full extent... n that includes not partaking in outer marital relationships...

Does following a faith mean you should blind yourself to its flaws and contradictions?

u look at any faith worldwide - and from my knowledge i dont think of them agree with outer marital relationships

They don't NOW...since society decided it wasn't on...again...human intervention. And actually, you'll find the Mormons have it as part of their faith if i remember.

i think we are missing the main point here...

outer marital relationships are not allowed in sikhi - whether its with a christian - hindu - muslim - jain - rastafarian - or sikh

maya u say that it doesnt make u a bad sikh - a sikh is soemoen who follows the teachings of our gurus... if u dont follow em.. how can it "not make u a bad sikh"?

the thing nowadays is people jus label themselves sikhs - sikh meaning disciple/student... but the sad fact is they dont learn what they should :?

By who's definition? That of man? The views of man are without fail biased and/or an intepretation of the real word of God.

Guru Nanak was a Hindu by birth...does that make him unworthy of calling himself a Sikh?

And as I said before Guru Nanak advocated the abolishment of the Caste System...but who listened to him? Which sikh follows HIS teaching? ...because if you do not, then by your definition you're not a Sikh.

I was born into a family thats Sikh. I believe in God.

I am not however, bigoted or careless of the feelings and beliefs of my fellow man and I most certainly do not believe that religion is the route to God. You can believe in God but you do not have to follow any religion to do so.

my parents r currently looking for a kuri for me to marry.but i'm in a relationship already with a gujrati girl. shes such a nice girl, really caring and takes interest in sikhi. i'd love to marry her. n she wud love to marry me. iin future i want my kids to grow up as sikhs, keep their hair and fully be into the faith. shes ok with this. but will it make me a bad sikh to marry her?? i dunno what to do. shud i end the relationship totally now?? my parents want me to find a apni kuri. but i feel even tho she isnt a sikh, shes like a apni already.

It would not make you a bad sikh. Or a bad person. Why do you identify yourself as a religion first and as a person second?

If she is willing to have her children grow up as sikhs, which I wouldn't feel was compulsory or a precursor to a relationship or mariage I might add, then I can't see why anybody should have a problem with it.

I'm fairly sure that God doesn't preach intolerance. Thats mans favourite activity.

yes obviously i love my mommy and my daddy but its still emotional attachment......you dont have to be a robot but you definately have to be unattatched.

do u think the gurus said to their wives all the time "oh i love you i love you" etc etc

How can you love "mommy" and "daddy" if theres no such thing. Haven't you just contradicted yourself? And i'm sorry but if you do love them...then you're attached!

And to answer the point about the Guru's...I don't know of ANYBODY who spends all their time saying "i love you, i love you"...so the scorn you've just displayed is misplaced...and again innacurate.

Love is not a sin and you can mis/intepret any religious text to back up what you're trying to say.

If we follow the line of logic you're attempting to espouse...you cannot love a man or woman be they you're wife/husband or not. But also you cannot love your family, children and if we take it to its logical conclusion we cannot love God because theres no such thing as love.

Personally, as a human being first I AM capable of love and you must look to yourself to see if you are too. If you are not then the loss appears to be yours my friend.