Beast

Judging from his post, quite easily.

Does anybody have a fairly accurate idea of when these idols were brought into Harminder Sahib? From there we can ascertain how much influence Hindus have exerted on Sikhs.

Who cares! The only important thing is that India beat Pakistan!!

i didn't hear anything like that in the films. He was portrayed as an athiest in the Ajay Devgun film and the (awful) Bobby Deol version.

Acha, I see where you're coming from now. I thought you meant that Sant Ji explained to us that we Sikhs are not Hindus. Sorry dude!

lol dhan dhan dhan Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindrawala for pointing out to me that I'm not a Hindu. I never would have realised that otherwise. :wink:

As long as I'm still able to have intercourse at a ripe old age I don't really care!

I know. If his views are harsh then fair enough, but your post was directed at a source that he quoted. Hence I'm not defending his views, I'm defending his right to use those sources without anyone criticising him for doing so. This right also extends to those people who give sources saying that women should wear a dastaar. People like me can then read these sources and attempt to form an opinion on the debate. Your $2 book comment was a broad, sweeping statement and I was unsure what you were trying to imply by including it in your post. I still don't know why it is in your post, maybe you should start a seperate thread on $2 books and their validity??

Nor does it make you Mr Not-Know-it-all. Members on this forum [rightly] ask for references when someone states a view which is not the norm. Its a way of clarifying that the person is not lying or misleading people from the truth. Lalleshvari gave us references to sources on third gender, but that wasn't enough because none of us wanted to go out and buy the books. So instead he wrote down excerpts from the book. People like me have no idea about the history behind debates on Keski being a Kakkar or not. When people say Mai Bhago wore a dastaar and then others say 'actually, that wass unique and there exists a reason why she did that' then I want to read those people's reasons and the source of their reasoning. So, I'm asking you to be tolerant towards Lalleshvari so that I can decide for myself whether Keski is a Kakkar or not, and whether women should wear a turban. Also, why can't a $2 book guide you in the right direction?

Are you talking about those that wear dastars, those that don't, or both?

how?

Why not?

Like who? Are you talking about Western converts, or "Sikh girls who are being converted left, right and centre"?

nice choice of words

yum yum in my tum

Change your pillow? And don't eat cheese last thing at night.

no

Can you post the whole shabd please - thanks.

In this context I agree with you 100%. But personally I think this situation goes further than the name Singh or Kaur. Our first names have meaning as well. For example, Gurpreet means love for the Guru; but you will still find Gurpreets somewhere sleeping around, drinking, smoking, etc. In this context, those people are not doing themselves any favours, but surely increasing their awareness is the solution? Related to this, I'm a big bhangra fan but I was a bit cheesed off when some guy from east London started using the name Steve Singhfellow. Ridiculous!

And that Singh that started the fight that I saw did deserve the name Singh? Hardly. Who deserves the name Singh? An amritdharee? How many people on this forum were given the name Singh or Kaur at birth? Well, unless they took amrit before the birth certificate was made they do not deserve to be called Singh/Kaur either then. Put simpley, Amritdharees do not have a monopoly on the name Singh/Kaur: Every Amritdharee has to be a Singh or a Kaur, but not every non-Amritdharee has to be a Singh/Kaur. Those that choose to give their children that name should be commended, not vilified. Your ideals are nice and noble, but impractical.

erm......the link doesn't seem to work. I was really looking forward to seeing it too. :cry: :cry: There's a lot of "lol's" in your post, I can just imagine you sitting there at your PC with tears coming down your eyes coz you're laughing so much. Warning to children: this is what sukha does to you. :mrgreen:

A simple "you sources are wrong" would have sufficed. Is it going to adversely affect your spirituality and love for Guruji by being polite?

I think he meant 1839. Also, it would have taken a long time for the camera to reach South Asia.

The weapon should only be drawn when all other options have been exhausted. A Sikh, who may or may not follow Nihang maryada, must adhere to this principle. At a guess, a Nihangs first weapon should be Gian --> knowledge. Nidar isn't just hated because he follows Nihang maryada, he's also hated because he is a learned individual who uses his gian to spread the ideals of Sanatan Sikhi. From what I witnessed some days back, people will not challenge him for two reasons: 1. They fear him. 2. They fear his knowledge. Of course there are. Just because we weren't there to witess any such events doesn't mean that they didn't happen. The only way to fully answer this question would be if the Nihangs had a charter where they could enter each heroic act that they did! Your question is unanswerable - its like me saying just because I have never heard a baby farting that babies never fart.

lol....I used to think the same way. But I think some of your (and mine) concerns are a bit too far-fetched. Just think about the ramifications of what you're asking for - Sikhs roaming the streets hunting for robbers, thieves and whatever scum there is out there. Its a nice picture, but it will never happen (unless you're a movie producer!). The biggest weapon that a person has in the western world is the law - all a Singh needs to do is learn how to use the law to their full advantage. Agreed, if a person saw trouble on the streets then they should assess the situation to ascertain the best move. I would guess that most of the time this would require that person to interject into the situation. Hypothetical situation: imagine there were Nihangs roaming the street superhero style. And imagine that a white guy (who happens to have a shaved head) catches a Singh trying to rape his wife. That white guy would justifiably kick the crap out of the Singh. Now imagine if the Nihangs came onto the scene, what would our superheroes see? Yep, a white skinhead kicking the crap out of a Singh. Do you see what I mean, not every situation is as simple as it looks. (a far-fetched hypothetical situation, I know. But it gets the point across) Like I said, I did paint the same picture of what a Singh (Nihang or otherwise) 'should' be like, but its just too impractical.